Author Topic: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!  (Read 16843 times)

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Offline LePatron7

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Re: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2013, 12:52:20 am »
There is plenty of scientific evidence to show that processed supplements, such a synthetic vitamins, are nowhere near as good as the natural equivalent found in food. The ridiculous claim re vitamin C, that since they are chemically the same they must act the same on the human body, is easily disproved when one considers that natural vitamin C is bound up with coenzymes and other factors which make it quite different.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11090291

I'll start with this article. I don't have access to it, and I don't think you do either. If you like you could post what the study information was, but without having access to it and only being able to read the title, I don't think it's very helpful.

http://www.naturalnews.com/040157_synthetic_vitamins_supplements_whole_food.html

This one mainly mentions additives, which should be avoided anyway. I avoid all of those additives in my supplements.

It also mentions synthetic Vitamin E, which I agree completely isn't good. There are other examples which I've mentioned various times throughout this post.

This article  points out many of the flaws in synthetic vitamins:-
http://freepdfhosting.com/c0ed925b25.pdf

This article was nice. I enjoyed going through their references.

References # 2 and 4 didn't work.

Reference #3 is about artificial sugar which I don't consume.

Reference #5 mentions artificial folic acid, which I've already said is a bad product.

Reference #6 gave me a good laugh.

Reference # 6 - http://lemonite22.blogspot.com/2010/06/is-synthetic-vitamins-safe-to-consume.html

" Is synthetic vitamins safe to consume?
There is somehow a good debates on the use of synthetic vitamins for those who really think that by consuming all those vitamins or any health supplemets , they will be medically fit.

Here again,i come across various opinions by youngkies, jerk and entrymen from LYN which i think everyone of us should really ponder.

I always believe that the public has the right to know about what they are putting into their mouth but could this backfire on the public?

Most of the time, when someone walks into a pharmacy, they are expecting some relieve for the symptoms they are experiencing. So as pharmacist, i believe the roles plyed by them is to ensure the right doses and the right prescriptions are to be given to them."

Exceptional grammar. I'd like to point out that a lot of the websites they reference in their article don't use references themselves.

Reference #9 again mentions how a multivitamin didn't have any effect on cancer.

Reference #11 is actually a repeat of reference # 6, which had the excellent display of grammar.

Reference # 12 is a repeat of reference #7, which is telling the differences between synthetic and natural while also selling their own product line.

Reference # 13 is a repeat of reference #8.

Reference #14 is a repeat of reference # 9.

I stopped going through the references at #14, but there are a lot more repeats. And again, most of them are links to websites that don't have references themselves, which pretty much throws their credibility out the window.
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2013, 02:30:30 am »
Quote from: DaBoss
I'd also like to point out that the pharmaceutical industry doesn't manufacture vitamin supplements. In fact, pharmaceutical companies have zero interest in proving supplements efficacy or safety since they're such a competitive force in the market place.
Geigy who became Ciba-Geigy and then Novartis after fusionning with Sandoz was the evil Swiss company that poisoned the whole planet with DDT. It’s well known that Ciba-Geigy, Sandoz and Novartis were / are large producers of pharmaceutics as well as pesticides and… synthetic vitamins! Basel in Switzerland at the border of France and Germany is a town where such chemicals are manufactured.  I've been there quite regularly with trucks and I sometimes even transported such shit.

Here is a list of companies making pesticides, medicines and synthetic vitamins : 
Quote
http://sites.commercecreators.com/folder2674/index.cfm?fuseaction=browse&id=6013&pageid=1175

Many of the largest selling mass market supplement brands are owned and made by large pharmaceutical companies. These companies are already set up for the production and distribution of drugs made from chemicals. Making chemically derived supplements or owning companies that make them fits in well with their business model. They also get to hedge their bets by owning supplement companies. They make money when people get sick and use drugs, and they make money when people try to avoid getting sick by using supplements. They win either way. That's why more and more buy-outs of small supplement companies is by pharmaceutical giants.
I won’t waste my time to read that whole webpage but you’ll certainly do in view to be able to point out some mistakes or lack of serious references… You would be a very good lawyer, sincere congrats!
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 02:36:58 am by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2013, 04:19:15 am »
Very conceited. I am hardly going to spend 31.5 dollars for most every blasted scientific reference I come up with. If you genuinely want to debunk this piece which, if not in detail, does condemn synthetic vitamins, pay the cash yourself.

I find it extremely difficult to believe that you use only supplements with absolutely no fillers in them. Almost all  artificial supplements  have these trans-fats or whatever in them as it makes it far easier to manufacture them. There are a tiny few producers who do not use such fillers(like Dr Ron Schmid) but even he has to increase the price of his products substantially in order to use such methods.



"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
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Offline TylerDurden

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"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline LePatron7

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Re: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2013, 12:44:38 pm »
You would be a very good lawyer, sincere congrats!

Lol, so I've been told. But really you guys are posting all these articles to support your views that supplements are bad, and none of you are even checking to see if it's credible information. I don't think those are lawyer skills but just basic investigating.

Like I said in a previous post, you guys have a tendency to post info that supports your views without looking into it to see if the information is valid.

Like the first article which showed studies on multivitamins being unable to prevent cancer, heart attacks (in people who have already had one), and decline in cognitive function (in people over 65). Then your link from a company selling raw food supplements. Then Tyler's from a website who might as well have been making up most of what their website said. Not to mention the study he used to back his claim based on its title.

You see the problem with that? You're digging up any information you can to support your views, and most of it isn't even valid. If you're going to use an article to support your views, you can't say it's supportive based on the title, without having even read the article. With that kind of logic, the studies claiming vitamins are useless because a multivitamin didn't prevent a second heart attack or death in people who have already had heart attacks is valid. That kind of logic essentially says, "why even look at the study if it supports my point of view?"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7477116

That article was done on synthetic Vitamin A. There are various examples of specific vitamins that when synthetic can be problematic. I've been saying that this whole time. Here are some examples.

Magnesium forms and absorption - http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Magnesium-HealthProfessional/

"Absorption of magnesium from different kinds of magnesium supplements varies. Forms of magnesium that dissolve well in liquid are more completely absorbed in the gut than less soluble forms [2,11]. Small studies have found that magnesium in the aspartate, citrate, lactate, and chloride forms is absorbed more completely and is more bioavailable than magnesium oxide and magnesium sulfate [11-15]. One study found that very high doses of zinc from supplements (142 mg/day) can interfere with magnesium absorption and disrupt the magnesium balance in the body [16]."

Article on folic acid - http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FBJN%2FBJN98_04%2FS0007114507795326a.pdf&code=d790057b3d49142aa467b20ce538f628

"Other studies have reported the appearance of un-metabolised folic acid in serum following the consumption of folic acid supplements or fortified foods. Kelly et al.10 reported the appearance of un-metabolised folic acid in serum of young and elderly people in response to a period of 5 d consumption of folic acid fortified foods, or foods spiked with folic acid."

Article on folic acid and methylfolate and pregnancy - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3250974/

There are certain forms of various vitamins that aren't good. Vitamin A, folic acid, and some forms of magnesium are just a few. But that doesn't mean ALL vitamins have those same properties, and it certainly doesn't mean they should all be grouped together.

Very conceited. I am hardly going to spend 31.5 dollars for most every blasted scientific reference I come up with. If you genuinely want to debunk this piece which, if not in detail, does condemn synthetic vitamins, pay the cash yourself.

You're the one who cited that study to support your view! That's literally like me citing a study titled "Synthetic vitamins are as good as the food equivalent," without having read it because I don't have access to it as valid evidence to support my claim. The sources I've cited have the information there for you to look at.

I find it extremely difficult to believe that you use only supplements with absolutely no fillers in them. Almost all  artificial supplements  have these trans-fats or whatever in them as it makes it far easier to manufacture them. There are a tiny few producers who do not use such fillers(like Dr Ron Schmid) but even he has to increase the price of his products substantially in order to use such methods.

Literally the only additive in my supplements mentioned by that website is stearic acid. Part of the specific carbohydrate diet is making sure all supplements, foods, liquids etc. are SCD legal. Which means most of the additives they mentioned aren't allowed. Not that there aren't other additives in some of my supplements, but none from those mentioned on that website.

Here is a list of companies making pesticides, medicines and synthetic vitamins :  I won’t waste my time to read that whole webpage but you’ll certainly do in view to be able to point out some mistakes or lack of serious references…

I won't bother going through that entire website (found @ http://sites.commercecreators.com/folder2674/index.cfm?fuseaction=browse&id=6013&pageid=1175 ) and through all the companies they mention. I will however point out they cited absolutely zero references in all their claims. I'll also point out they're selling their own supplement line.

Geigy who became Ciba-Geigy and then Novartis after fusionning with Sandoz was the evil Swiss company that poisoned the whole planet with DDT. It’s well known that Ciba-Geigy, Sandoz and Novartis were / are large producers of pharmaceutics as well as pesticides and… synthetic vitamins! Basel in Switzerland at the border of France and Germany is a town where such chemicals are manufactured.  I've been there quite regularly with trucks and I sometimes even transported such shit.

You're welcome to share any information about those companies and their manufacturing of supplements.

Various papers supporting orthomolecular medicine - http://orthomolecular.org/library/articles/index.shtml

Here are 23 studies by doctors on iodine therapy - http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

Tons of articles on orthomolecular medicine and schizophrenia - http://www.orthomolecular.org/search2.shtml?cx=012934609838436511334%3Aplncuzvulcg&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=UTF-8&q=schizophrenia&sa=Search&siteurl=orthomolecular.org%2Fsearch2.shtml&ref=orthomolecular.org%2F&ss=590j124212j4
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 01:03:20 pm by DaBoss88 »
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2013, 10:02:15 pm »
Well, if you had indeed found a study  that stated that synthetic vitamins were always as good as natural vitamins but which had no immediate details to read, that would actually have a little  credibility since getting studies published  requires peer-review and other controls. Same goes for the study I cited. I  just don't like paying for info that ought to be  available free.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2013, 10:03:21 am »
I am a skeptic as to the merits of synthetic vitamins. There may be some cases where they have helped certain conditions, but generally speaking it would be a lot wiser for people to invest their time and resources into replenishing through diet first, before they start seeking supplemental. Raw foods first and foremost.

 I don't trust most of the studies either way, first of all there is no way of telling if the supplement used in the study will be of the same kind as the one you would buy, nor do we know all the other variables involved. Those people in the vitamin studies could of done Ten Times Better if they were to Adopt a Raw Plaeo Diet instead. Then there are so many seemingly good studies that contradict each other.

I noticed when I was taking b vitamins that they had a drug like effect, raising my energy temporarily, but at the time I had severe candida, and it seems the vitamins fed the yeast overgrowth, so that when I would stop taking them there would be a kind of withdrawal effect, from the die off.

I am warning others with candida issues to be wary of B supplements.

There are exceptions to the rule, I believe that there are some people who have an impaired metabolism, or some other gut ecology issue which prevents the absorption of nutrients. In such rare cases mega doses of vitamin supplement may have a positive effect.

My grandmother had pernicious anemia for years and managed it by taking B 12 and niacin. Of course being an alcoholic that lived on beer and Twinkies didn't leave her much alternative.

For those without clearly diagnosed malabsorption issues, high doses of synthetic vitamins are risky in my opinion.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2013, 10:45:59 am by sabertooth »
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Offline LePatron7

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Re: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2014, 09:44:35 am »
After looking into it I'm seeing that some vitamin/mineral preparations are made by pharmaceutical companies. I'm seeing some of the vitamins that are patentable are sold by pharma companies.

For example Merck makes a methyfolate that I use - http://www.metafolin.com/

And quatrefolic (another type of methylfolate I use) is made by Gnosis - http://www.quatrefolic.com/
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.


Offline thunderseed

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Re: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2014, 04:49:16 pm »
Thanks, Tyler.

I think there's a strong danger of overdose with synthetic vitamins (amongst other problems). That’s certainly because they are not intertwined with other substances (you mention coenzymes) to form the extremely complex organic structures embedded in a natural food. You can't eat unlimited amounts of a particular food, especially when unprocessed and unmixed, but you can easily ingest uncontrolled amounts of synthetic or pure substances such as vitamins and various supplements. 

Even small doses regularly ingested may disturb the alimentary balance.

That said, supplements may be useful to some extend in case of deficiencies of the natural substance.

Yeah, it's also very easy to overdose on vitamins in vegetables especially when juicing. I was drinking big jugs of freshly juiced vegetable juice everyday and got really ill, went to my naturopath and she told me I was drinking too much of it. Destroyed my liver because the excess vitamins turn toxic, which I was already near liver failure from years of alcoholism, then had to repair it with milk thistle. Also the sugar content in some vegetables is very high, not good for blood sugar.

People like to get in the mindset of more is better. I've always had to learn the hard way myself. I also had that same shock when I learned the more is not better for physical activity as well. I guess being a natural addict, I've always overdone things.

I do still take things that are necessary for my digestive health, such as enzymes, apple cider vinegar, probiotics and fiber powder, because without it I get majorly constipated and aweful acid reflux which is caused by not enough stomach acid, and ultimately all of those problems were caused by many years of eating disorders and alchoholism, and it will just take time and patience for that to heal, and probably, it might never but that's the price I pay for damaging my insides, it could be a lot worse. Actually, I'm pretty grateful seeing as I'm very healthy considering.

I think most supplements are unnecessary just because the vitamins lose most of their nutritional value.
A lot of people take protien and fitness supplements which are a waste of money.
But there are some things that could be necessary simply because people are NOT eating properly in this day of age and possibly wouldn't be able to even if they tried.

It's getting harder and harder for people to be able to find healthy food and to be able to get enough nutrients from their food.



 

 

Offline LePatron7

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Re: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2014, 10:12:32 pm »
Bunch more studies here:

http://highsteaks.com/forum/health-nutrition-and-science/vitamin-and-multivitamin-supplementation-risks-benefits-370.0.html

Your link mentions the studies already mentioned here. That multivitamins don't prevent heart attack patients from dying of heart complications. That elderly people (65+) don't get improved cognitive function from multivitamins.
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Offline tests

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Re: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2014, 07:12:54 am »
How about taking vitamins such as magnesium, vitamin c, and vitamin d?

I have trouble sleeping and magnesium seems to help

Offline LePatron7

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Re: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2014, 04:51:11 pm »
Looks like I'm not the only one that found the recommendation to avoid vitamin supplements is bad science.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/in-defence-of-multivitamins/article16386104/

"There were three studies published alongside that editorial: 1) One that followed 6,000 male physicians for 12 years and found a daily multivitamin did not preserve or enhance cognitive function, i.e., it didn’t prevent dementia or make them smarter; 2) A study that followed 2,000 adults for an average of four years after they had a heart attack and found taking a daily supplement didn’t lower the risk of having another heart attack; 3) A systematic review (compiling of previous research) that showed taking a multivitamin did not reduce the risk of developing cancer or heart disease.

Yet the conclusions drawn from this research are pretty sweeping: Never. Take. Vitamins. Ever.

The premise is that people take vitamins in the belief that they will magically prevent cancer, heart disease, Alzheimer’s and every other imaginable condition. Is that true? Or do they take supplements to give themselves a modest sense of well-being, to fill in the gaps in their diet?"
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2014, 10:28:56 pm »
I don't know about the long-term effects of vitamin D on me, but I definitely take it, because it improves certain symptoms in a very real way on a daily basis.

Offline 24isours

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Re: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2014, 11:10:22 pm »
Why choose synthetic when whole food vitamins exist anyway? It would seem more like common sense to me that anything 'synthetic' could be of harm to the body. I myself take a form of Vitamin D from Cod Liver Oil in the winter when I'm not outside much soaking up the sun. Most, if not all vitamins and minerals are available through whole food supplements today.
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*Currently still on a Ketogenic diet but have now incorporated raw vegetables.

Offline LePatron7

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Re: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2014, 11:54:42 pm »
Why choose synthetic when whole food vitamins exist anyway? It would seem more like common sense to me that anything 'synthetic' could be of harm to the body. I myself take a form of Vitamin D from Cod Liver Oil in the winter when I'm not outside much soaking up the sun. Most, if not all vitamins and minerals are available through whole food supplements today.

To each their own I guess.
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2014, 12:16:50 pm »
The only reason I don't get my vitamin D from cod liver oil is because I can very easily overdose on vitamin A. I really don't do well if I supplement with extra vitamin A. 

Offline rawfishy

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Re: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2014, 03:51:25 pm »
The only reason I don't get my vitamin D from cod liver oil is because I can very easily overdose on vitamin A. I really don't do well if I supplement with extra vitamin A. 
CK what is the exact name/brand of your vitamin D supplement?

Offline 24isours

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Re: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2014, 11:05:28 pm »
The only reason I don't get my vitamin D from cod liver oil is because I can very easily overdose on vitamin A. I really don't do well if I supplement with extra vitamin A.

You might want to look into this supplement as the A to D ratio is almost equal.
600 IU of A and 400 IU of D per capsule.
I take three of these each day during the winter on top of the A I get from meat and do very well.

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/country-life-natural-vitamin-d3-400-iu-100-sgels

How do you know/feel when you are overdosing on A?
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*Currently still on a Ketogenic diet but have now incorporated raw vegetables.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Stop taking synthetic vitamins and supplements!
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2014, 09:35:09 am »
CK what is the exact name/brand of your vitamin D supplement?

The Now brand. I use the softgels, but I've found the chewable tablets also work.

 

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