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Offline rawesome

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Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« on: December 19, 2013, 12:36:00 am »
I feel like I have a limit of how much I can comfortably  consume during a day. Maximum amount would be 500-600 grams of raw meat or fish (must be less than 20% fat or I can not even eat this much). Anyone else have it this way? If so how did you overcome it or did you eat something else on the side to cover your needs?

« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 03:20:53 am by TylerDurden »

Offline Iguana

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2013, 02:07:38 am »
Of course, there's a limit ! 500 - 600 g of meat or fish daily is absolutely and usually enough or even more than enough - unless you have specific temporary need.

Why do you have this idea of "consuming enough" ? How would you know how much is enough in your current state otherwise than instinctively ?

Sure, I eat other foods as well after meat, fish or eggs in a meal. Preferably veggies, one kind of nuts or avocados if I'm still hungry and somewhat latter one kind of fruit if hungry still. No processed nor mixed or spiced food, thus no juices.   
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline raw-al

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2013, 03:01:23 am »
My experience is the same as Iguana's. I find with a raw diet you don't feel a need to be constantly eating and when you do eat a small amount it is plenty.

Presumably because the nutrition has not been destroyed or corrupted by cooking.
Eating fruit makes me very hungry unless I drown it in cream and butter, which is a nice combination.
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Offline Eric

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2013, 04:41:45 am »
Yeah, I think the idea that you need to eat 'enough' meat (or any particular type of food) is inaccurate when eating nutrient dense foods. When your body says 'enough', you can stop. If you make a habit of honoring your body's instincts, you'll end up eating less food but will still be plenty well nourished. For the sake of comparison, it's rare for me to eat more than 300 grams of meat each day and sometimes I'll go days without eating any because I just don't have a taste for it. I've been doing this for years, live an active lifestyle and always have plenty of energy.
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Offline rawesome

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2013, 05:30:07 am »
Wow, good to hear thanks!

I had the impression that I was not eating enough. Looking at nutritional data I am only getting around 1000-1200 callories If I eat mostly meat. It seems abit to little and I wanna build more muscle. That's why.

If I eat fruit I eat untill I feel sick, so I try to avoid it.

Will try to listen more to my body and see how it turnes out.

Offline LePatron7

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2013, 01:19:36 pm »
I had the impression that I was not eating enough. Looking at nutritional data I am only getting around 1000-1200 callories

That sounds like way to little to me. I agree that I eat much less meat than I did pre raw paleo. For example I eat maybe 4-5 oz of meat per meal now (3 meals daily) when I used to eat much larger servings of meat. However I eat massive amounts of fat daily which gives me plenty of calories.

I eat at least 2 oz of beef fat per meal (3 meals daily). Each ounce of beef fat is about 200 calories, giving me a total of around 1,200 calories from beef fat alone. I also eat a few egg yolks daily (anywhere from 2-4) and various fruits throughout the day. I average about 2,000 calories without counting the fruit or egg yolks I eat.

I feel like I have a limit of how much I can comfortably  consume during a day. Maximum amount would be 500-600 grams of raw meat or fish (must be less than 20% fat or I can not even eat this much).

That's about 21.5 ounces, or 1.5 pounds. That's a lot of meat.  I personally think eating large amounts of meat is bad news, and there needs to be an added fat source.

1) fat adds calories, and digests slowly which will help you feel full
2) fat is a great energy source, even if you eat a modest amount of carbs. The body generally burns a combination of fat, carbs, and ATP
3) muscle meat (generally) is expensive. I get beef fat trimmings from Miller's Farm for $3/lb with shipping. It really brings the price of the diet down
4) the body is a large proportion fat, especially the brain. Eating exclusively meat severely limits the amount of fat you get, even if you eat fatty cuts

Here's a link on low fat diets and depression - http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200304/the-risks-low-fat-diets

Here's a link on rabbit starvation, which I think is especially important for you to look into since you're new to RPD. A lot of newcomers who don't get it right the first time give up on it all together. If you see you're feeling bad (low energy, always tired, diarrhea, etc.), don't attribute it to detox. Generally speaking when you're detoxing and your body is getting the nutrition it needs it makes you feel better. Don't be afraid to make changes and ask questions.

Rabbit starvation - http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-rabbit-starvation.htm

"Rabbit starvation, also known as protein poisoning, is a dangerous health condition caused by the over-consumption of protein coupled with fat, carbohydrate, and micronutrient deprivation. "

If I eat fruit I eat untill I feel sick, so I try to avoid it.

It's important you look into rabbit starvation since it sounds like you're eating just meat, not getting much fat and restricting/eliminating carbs.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 01:29:26 pm by DaBoss88 »
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Offline rawesome

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2013, 02:14:33 pm »
Okey so I will deffently add more fat. Thanks for scaring me into change ;)

I make this mix of 220g ground up beef meat (14% fat) and 1 avocado and 5-10 egg yolks and some honey. Love it!
I think I can manage 2 and a half servings of this in one day. My question is though is it safe to eat 15-20 eggyolks a day without the whites? (heard something about not to seperating to much, but not sure if its for the whites or both)


Offline Iguana

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2013, 04:37:23 pm »
Quote
My question is though is it safe to eat 15-20 eggyolks a day without the whites? (heard something about not to seperating to much, but not sure if its for the whites or both)

The answer is : it depends If you need it or not. Some people, including me, have eaten more than 30 egg's yolks or even yolks and whites in a meal, but that was a transient behavior to fulfill a need and it has never been something you continuously do everyday during your wohle life ! 

The topic of raw eggs has already been extensively discussed here on several threads. 

Note: Since I'm not on "Primal Diet", perhaps I shouldn't have answered here. Sorry about that.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 04:44:07 pm by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Eric

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2013, 11:35:32 pm »
Rawesome, you seem very fixated on eating lots of meat. I'm curious why? Do you crave it for some reason? Are you trying to mimic the eating patterns of a particular diet guru? You might consider fasting for a few days and just seeing what cravings develop. You might find your appetite for meat falls, your hunger for raw animal fat rises, and sugar cravings subside...
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Offline rawesome

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2013, 04:02:09 am »
Quote
Rawesome, you seem very fixated on eating lots of meat. I'm curious why? Do you crave it for some reason? Are you trying to mimic the eating patterns of a particular diet guru? You might consider fasting for a few days and just seeing what cravings develop. You might find your appetite for meat falls, your hunger for raw animal fat rises, and sugar cravings subside...

Very hard to find animal fats around where I live (people in norway are non-fat fixated and proteins-geeks). I also get pain in my upper back and shortness of breath when eating a lot of fat - Especially avocadoes alone. So that's kinda the reason + I'm not gaining weight... I think I might have gallstones..
However I think I can handle meat-fat better than avocadoes, just need to find it. I have a jaw problem so if there is any easy to chew meat-fat  out there that would be perfect for me. Maybe I can order online or I could try to get a hold on some farmers outside town.

Fasting feels good, but not solving anything for me cos once I eat again it's the same. Sugercravings I can handle pretty much, just avoiding fruits ( I feel horrible eating fruit anyway) and I'm good. Blueberries are cool though. If I need some sugar I have carrot-juice with celery and cucumber (about 20% carrot) feels good drinking this.

« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 04:16:59 am by TylerDurden »

Offline van

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2013, 09:44:40 am »
you could try grinding your fat with a meat grinder, and then placing  a shallow bowl of it in a pan  of warm water,( slightly more than body temp).   you'll find that some of it will melt, and the taste will be pleasurable.   Avocados are full or pufa's and a bad substitute for real animal fat.  Also try eating fat alone when hungry and stop when you've had enough, when your desire to eat anymore goes away.  Then wait till your hungry again, and eat mostly meat.  The same, stop when you don't want to eat anymore,, or, stop just before then.  This is a good way to let your body start figuring out how much of each it wants and it will strengthen your ability to use fat as fuel.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2013, 03:17:58 pm »
Van, it's very difficult to find significant amounts of proper animal fat in Europe. When by chance we get some, we can't eat all quickly enough and it gets rancid. Grinding may induce you to eat too much of it and lead to overload and digestion troubles.

I eat a lot of avocados, they are very tasty here. Perhaps that's why I'm gonna die soon... ;)
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 03:38:54 pm by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Inger

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2013, 04:43:38 pm »
Rawesome,
welcome to the forum! I was in Norway (I am Norwegian btw, just born in Finland) a few months ago for 2 months and I loved to pick oysters at the beach and eat them fresh.. yum! And then I loved the whale meat! And mackerel... I ate mackerels almost every day, they are so fatty you need no extra fat for sure at that meal at least!

I am sure you could get fresh lambs meat too, it has some fat on it, and tastes amazing.

Try to get game too.. and organs, you need to eat everything on the animal. You will find seaweed to much on, for free, in the ocean. I am a fan of wild foods, they makes me feel amazing!

Do not count calories by any means! Go after how you feel and you hunger. Calories means nothing.

Do not eat fruit in winter in Norway! That is my advice... and as you write you already experienced it is not too good for you. Always try to eat in season. Maybe you can find Hazelnuts? I love them! They are very high fat and very healthy, almost no carbs and they are growing in Norway too. I do sometimes eat Brazil nuts and Pistachios and Macadamias etc. for dessert, I love nuts but they must be fresh and organic, not rancid or you will only hurt yourself.

@ Francois,
haha.... I hope you won't die Francois because I need to come and visit your beautiful place first and the picture of you feeding me with fresh sun ripe figs in season is not leaving my mind ;)


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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2013, 06:31:51 pm »
At the peak of my meat eating years 2 and 3, i ate around 600 grams of meat a day.  I'm small and i live in the tropics.  I eat around 200 grams or less of animal meat these days.
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Offline Iguana

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2013, 07:39:51 pm »
Quote
And mackerel... I ate mackerels almost every day, they are so fatty you need no extra fat for sure at that meal at least!

Ah, yeah, mackerel. I eat it often again since I'm here, they are very fresh and excellent. But I was thinking about fat such as marrow or pork fat, which I find more nourishing.

Quote
you need to eat everything on the animal.

That's something I can do only with shellfish and eggs. There are parts I don't like in mammals, fish and birds.

Quote
haha.... I hope you won't die Francois because I need to come and visit your beautiful place first and the picture of you feeding me with fresh sun ripe figs in season is not leaving my mind ;)

Come before I die, then! LOL.  :)
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline van

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2013, 11:47:29 pm »
I agree that grinding fat can lead to eating too much.  But, and here's the but, it can help one discover just how good fat is, to get past one's mental ideas about eating chunks of fat.  And then, one can go back to eating it in pieces till satiated.   

   As far as avocados go.   I love them too.  So easy to eat everyday.  And yes California avocados would do well in a avocado tasting contest with any countries entries.    I am saying that when I go off them and substitute with animal fat, I do much better.  You might try as well, should you come across a big hunk of fat that's not rancid.  I've done this experiment a couple of times.  And it's not an easy one, for it's hard not to eat a perfectly ripe avocado when it's just sitting there in your kitchen.    And this idea I believe would hold true to even a greater extent if someone were getting most or all of their fats from them,, and not animals. 

Offline Iguana

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2013, 12:39:43 am »
Ok, I agree with you about grinding fat a few times: as long as doesn't become an habit it won't make much harm!

I've been several times without avocados during a few months but didn't notice any difference. It's difficult to know for me because there are so many variations in my food and I don't really care to remember what I ate in the previous days, weeks or months.  But I know that when I don't have avocados, I tend to eat more nuts.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2013, 03:50:26 am »
I cant stand ground meat.
Just get good scissors.
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Offline rawesome

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2013, 09:14:53 am »
Quote
Rawesome,
welcome to the forum! I was in Norway (I am Norwegian btw, just born in Finland) a few months ago for 2 months and I loved to pick oysters at the beach and eat them fresh.. yum! And then I loved the whale meat! And mackerel... I ate mackerels almost every day, they are so fatty you need no extra fat for sure at that meal at least!

I am sure you could get fresh lambs meat too, it has some fat on it, and tastes amazing.

Try to get game too.. and organs, you need to eat everything on the animal. You will find seaweed to much on, for free, in the ocean. I am a fan of wild foods, they makes me feel amazing!

Do not count calories by any means! Go after how you feel and you hunger. Calories means nothing.

Do not eat fruit in winter in Norway! That is my advice... and as you write you already experienced it is not too good for you. Always try to eat in season. Maybe you can find Hazelnuts? I love them! They are very high fat and very healthy, almost no carbs and they are growing in Norway too. I do sometimes eat Brazil nuts and Pistachios and Macadamias etc. for dessert, I love nuts but they must be fresh and organic, not rancid or you will only hurt yourself.

Thanks! :)
Love oysters to. Altough I never tried any from the beach. Gonna look out for it when the summer comes.
Makrel is nice and very cheap also.

Gonna be on the lockout for good farmers, maby I can ask to buy some organ-meat and such. Probably get it cheap cos they would trow out most of it I would guess. Wildfood is awesome. I used to taste everything in nature when I was younger  ;D

Quote
you could try grinding your fat with a meat grinder, and then placing  a shallow bowl of it in a pan  of warm water,( slightly more than body temp).   you'll find that some of it will melt, and the taste will be pleasurable.   Avocados are full or pufa's and a bad substitute for real animal fat.  Also try eating fat alone when hungry and stop when you've had enough, when your desire to eat anymore goes away.  Then wait till your hungry again, and eat mostly meat.  The same, stop when you don't want to eat anymore,, or, stop just before then.  This is a good way to let your body start figuring out how much of each it wants and it will strengthen your ability to use fat as fuel.

Defently gonna try this! Sounds good.

Quote
I cant stand ground meat.
Just get good scissors.

I love it :P

Quote
I agree that grinding fat can lead to eating too much.  But, and here's the but, it can help one discover just how good fat is, to get past one's mental ideas about eating chunks of fat.  And then, one can go back to eating it in pieces till satiated.   

   As far as avocados go.   I love them too.  So easy to eat everyday.  And yes California avocados would do well in a avocado tasting contest with any countries entries.    I am saying that when I go off them and substitute with animal fat, I do much better.  You might try as well, should you come across a big hunk of fat that's not rancid.  I've done this experiment a couple of times.  And it's not an easy one, for it's hard not to eat a perfectly ripe avocado when it's just sitting there in your kitchen.    And this idea I believe would hold true to even a greater extent if someone were getting most or all of their fats from them,, and not animals. 

Well I cannot chew probably before I get my jaw fixed. So guess grinding is my best choice for now.

Yeah, I feel the same.. avocado doesn't feel that good. I actually feel better eating prosseced butter than avocado, so raw animal fat would be way better! Just need to find out where I can get that fat! There is a farmersmarked in town tomorrow, so I'll ask them if they know where I can get it :)


Offline rawesome

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2013, 05:32:20 am »
So I went to the farmers marked. Got 4 kg of raw organic honey  ;D

Then I went on my fatquest. I was a little hessitant to ask at first. When I finaly got to the counter I said something like: "Uhm, can I buy some fat from you" The answer I got was " Yes offcourse everything here has almost no fat"
"Oh, but I want the fat, is it posible to buy from your farm in the future?" He told me they usally throwed away alot of fat, so that could be posible :D I also asked for organs and such and he told me I could also get that next time they slaughtered. His farm was abit far away, but maby they can send a package.

I asked another place where they had wild elk and dear- meat, but they could not give away the organs cos the food-regulators in norway chop up and throw wild organs to see if the animal is healthy. She told me that they only had one sick wild animal in her career.

I think they where abit supriced by my request to say the least :P

Offline raw-al

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2013, 05:54:22 am »
Rawsome,
Good going, on your shopping spree.

Re: the animal organs, one strategy may be to tell them you want them for your "dog".  It may be worth a try.
Cheers
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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2013, 08:20:15 am »
Thanks :)

I'm pretty sure I can get it from sheeps, goats, cows and other farm-animals, just wild ones that would be harder.

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2014, 03:33:48 am »
Wow, good to hear thanks!

I had the impression that I was not eating enough. Looking at nutritional data I am only getting around 1000-1200 callories If I eat mostly meat. It seems abit to little and I wanna build more muscle. That's why.

If I eat fruit I eat untill I feel sick, so I try to avoid it.

Will try to listen more to my body and see how it turnes out.
Hey I don't know if this is helpful to you, but sometimes apparently our blood is too acidic and therefore meats do not appeal to us as much. If you get you blood to a more alkaline state your body will likely crave more meat. In my experience this definitely happens. Just a thought.

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2014, 03:35:17 am »
Hey I don't know if this is helpful to you, but sometimes apparently our blood is too acidic and therefore meats do not appeal to us as much. If you get you blood to a more alkaline state your body will likely crave more meat. In my experience this definitely happens. Just a thought.
Oh, and one of the best sources that I'm aware of that will do that are vegetable juices. 

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Re: Having a hard time consuming enough meat - feeling full
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2014, 04:50:50 am »
Oh, and one of the best sources that I'm aware of that will do that are vegetable juices.
I had gotten away for a little while from juicing... sometimes I think I get lazy. I so hear you on the importance of it ... for me at least, especially now while healing. Actually, I also was not eating as much post injury. I think the juice will help on that point to... from past experience.

 

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