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Offline thunderseed

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raw meat and gas pains?
« on: January 07, 2014, 04:56:18 pm »
I just ate my first completely raw steak yesterday from a different source than usual, although I've been eating raw salmon before this and just lightly seared raw beef. But the problem is I got gas pains and bloated right after and for all day today and even still tonight and am wondering if that is normal or what it could be? I'm pretty sure it was the meat because it started a couple hours after eating it.

Heres some background info that might be useful:
I do have a sensitive digestive system (in working order now) although am prone to easy bloating due to having eating disorders for 13 years, which I've been recovered from for a couple of years and am in surprisingly excellent health now.
I have a very strong immune system and never get sick. I polar bear swim daily, so I have good circulation and I work out a lot and am strong and at a healthy weight.

I just recently made the switch to eating meat. It's not like I was ever vegetarian but I just never bought it, other than getting sushi once in awhile. So basically, for 13 years of my life I did not have meat or milk in my diet hardly at all, and recently decided to add it.
When I was young I was raised on raw milk because I lived on a dairy farm. I lost the ability to digest milk because of anorexia and losing good bacteria in my gut, but after introducing probiotics, I can now drink milk again. So I also take probiotics daily, drink apple cider vinegar and take enzymes and all sorts of healthy things.

My bloodtype is O positive, so I am a natural meat eater. Also I am metis so my entire race are meat eaters lol. When I first started to eat red meat a few weeks ago, I became VERY hungry after eating a huge steak after another meal, and started craving more red meats, salmon and animal fats and even ice cream a lot more and also seemed to lose my cravings for complex carbohydrates and just prefer meat and some veggies, but I have to eat a lot of food because I am so active and I find eating red meats makes me hungrier and I digest it super fast. It seemed to help my digestion.

So I started eating my steaks blue rare, then I just started searing them so they were completely raw on the inside. I enjoy the taste of raw beef as much as possible - I didn't do the switch to raw for any other reason, I just crave it in taste.
 
So yesterday I just ate the meat raw out of the package and rinsed it first, but made sure it was organic and grass fed because I read that was supposed to be safe. I've gotta say though it wasn't as tasty to me as the non organic cuts I usually buy but sear first. It didn't taste as rich. For some reason it just wasn't as satisfying, maybe because the cut was a lot thinner and leaner. I think I actually enjoy the somewhat grain fed red meat (the source i get it from in Alberta feeds them grain only for the last 3 months of their lives), it tastes nicer to me and I do like some fat content to it.

So I've been eating raw meats for a few weeks now, and lots of it, the beef comes from a questionable source but is cut fresh daily (sterling silver) but to me tastes heavenly and I was searing lightly but the inside is truly raw and they were very THICK steaks, which I loved. I was also eating half a raw salmon a day that had been frozen previously but that I just pick up already thawed from the meat counter, sometimes with slices of avocado. The salmon never gives me issues.
I had 0 problems eating these things, in fact felt really amazing while eating them.
 
I've never eaten the organic steaks before, simply because they aren't that big and they look very thin but I decided to try the organic one raw so it would be safer.

I just find it strange that after eating completely uncooked, organic, and grass fed beef that I am experiencing very bad bloating and gas pains today! Also I had a nightmare last night, I wonder if it's related?
Maybe the non-organic steaks I've been eating regularily would be better for me to eat raw?

I don't know if it's bad bacterias, or good bacterias killing off bacterias or if it's something I mixed with it - I ate the meat alone, but not long afterwards had a craving for haggen daz caramel ice cream LoL, and then got ravenous so I ate a huge peice of raw salmon and two heads of cooked broccoli. That's usually how I eat - lots LoL. Then I drank tons of water with pure cranberry juice and took some fiber powder like usual. I get really hungry a lot. I don't eat my veggies raw all the time anymore because they are harder to digest raw, but I still do like my occasional raw vegetable juice. I've actually not been eating vegetables much as I used to in the last week or so!
 


Offline TylerDurden

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Re: raw meat and gas pains?
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2014, 08:39:12 pm »
Could well be due to detox so should disappear soon.
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: raw meat and gas pains?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2014, 09:38:22 pm »
Quote
>> So yesterday I just ate the meat raw out of the package and rinsed it first, but made sure it was organic and grass fed because I read that was supposed to be safe.

I personally don't rinse my meat with tap water as tap water has chlorine and some have fluoride.  If I have to rinse I use non-tap water.

My opinion / educated guess is that you need to let the meat out of the package, air it in the refrigerator or in the room to let it gain good bacteria.

My opinion is that meat gains bad anaerobic bacteria when in a package, and gains good aerobic bacteria when exposed.

So try it again next time with the meat fully aired out say for a day just to be sure.  Hang it with meat hooks if you can.
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Offline raw-al

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Re: raw meat and gas pains?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2014, 05:23:59 am »
When I started eating raw meat there was a period of time that my digestion was slow till it became populated with the proper bacteria.

Maybe consider making some high meat to populate your gut with proper bacteria.
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Offline thunderseed

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Re: raw meat and gas pains?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2014, 02:42:51 pm »
Thanks guys! I still have gas and it sucks because I can't fart Lolololol, it's like an air bubble trapped in my intestine, it's not going anywhere LoL probably too much information.

A detox symptom, that sort of makes sense but I'm uneducated about how raw meat cleanses the body. All I know is that my body is in need of extra amino acids right now and I have to eat a lot more meat than usual because there are changes happening in my cellular structures, DNA and tissue cells or something like that.

I didn't think about the packaging and lack of oxygen, it was wrapped up in one of those styrofoam plates with plastic wrap around it, different then the ones i usually get that are aired out, and when I took it out it was slimy because of being in the plastic and maybe for other suspicious reasons LoL, which is why I rinsed it. Tomorrow I'll try the same brand of meat and let it air out for a few hours and see if that makes a difference.

I wasn't too happy about the state of that meat, it was also way too thin to be a real steak!

Also thanks, I don't know anything about high meat, but as far as google has told me, it's fermented meat, (i just fermented some veggies and will check them in a couple days) I don't know if I'm ready for fermenting meat yet but I'll do more research on it, I'm still slightly nervous because I grew up in a household where the consumption of raw meat was discouraged, more so where bacteria got a bad name, kind of concerned about letting it sit out on a counter for weeks.
I'm hoping that's different then the rotten meat diet I was looking up before, I don't think i can stomach that  -\

I don't know, I wasn't having a problem digesting the extremely fresh cut steaks that are non organic, it sped up my digestion really fast. I lightly seared them though, I just don't understand why there would be a big difference between lightly searing and not searing at all. Is there really that much more bacteria on the outside of the steak than on the inside?

In a perfect world, I would probably just continue searing the steaks I usually get because they are so orgasmic, however the whole reason I want to eat them raw is because I'm lazy and hate cooking
and when it's seared it doesn't look as nice to me. I mean, it's not like the taste of the seared outside really bothers me much because I wasn't searing it much at all, but it'd still be a lot easier to just go to the store and eat the meat out of the package instead of having to go all the way home and use a stove, since im always on the go. I'm ultimately just trying to find an easy way out, and although I am prepared for giant earth disasters to go down, with awesome light weight homemade and store bought camp stoves, I still would much rather train myself to be able to eat meats raw and survive off the land without having to light fires (i've also trained myself to withstand the cold) it'd come in handy if something big goes down in the future. I don't know why i've been obsessed with preparing for the cold and preparing for survival lately but I swear I sense that something big is going to go down.

The organic steak I ate completely raw was obviously not as fresh because it's not local and they have to ship it for longer. I liked the "idea" of eating fresh cuts better, i don't know why, it just seems more natural to me. I don't know if unfresh meat would react well for me or not but I guess it's worth giving it a try, especially if it gets a bunch of good bacterias in me.

Also, is it really that bad to eat raw beef that isn't organic and is grain fed? I'm really starting to think about eating one of those raw.
I really didn't like the organic one I bought as much as the ones I usually get.

Also, i don't know if this is normal or not, but ever since I've been eating more meat, I have a lot of cravings for it and eating meat seems to be on my mind a lot of the time. I mean, pretty much all of the time. It's starting to get kind of obsessive. Maybe it's just waking up my natural instincts or something, but it's kind of weird. I even dreamt all night long once about eating meat. Very weird haha.

Offline raw-al

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Re: raw meat and gas pains?
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2014, 03:05:57 pm »
First off try eating some fat. That'll help moving things through the system.

To motivate the gas is easy but uncomfortable. Make a tight fist, then pull out the middle finger slightly so it makes a point. Then drive that point into your gut wherever the pain is. Hold it there for a minute or two. Then maybe push in and out at about 1 to 2 seconds per push. That should get rid of it. You are just helping the gut's peristaltic action and breaking up the gas.

If you have access to triphala it will also help.
Cheers
Al

Offline Johan August

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Re: raw meat and gas pains?
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2014, 10:58:46 pm »
Thunderseed,

I had a similar problem which triggered attacks of my pre-existing atrial fibrillation.  I took gel caps containing simeticone which reduces the size of the trapped air bubbles so allowing them to escape: relief.

Offline jessica

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Re: raw meat and gas pains?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2014, 11:08:34 pm »
fennel and dill seed teas work well for alleviating farts.

just age your meat a little by patting it dry and letting it sit on a clean rack in your clean fridge for a few days.  it will very slowly start to break itself down and will help with digestion. 

what else do you eat? 

Offline raw-al

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Re: raw meat and gas pains?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2014, 04:11:54 am »
Actually a lot of the spices used in Indian cooking are good for gas and problems you are having. My sense is that vegetarian diets require the addition of spices to prevent serious issues, whereas a raw meat is easier on the system. Once you are used to it.
Cheers
Al

Offline eveheart

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Re: raw meat and gas pains?
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2014, 05:44:29 am »
The organic steak I ate completely raw was obviously not as fresh because it's not local and they have to ship it for longer. I liked the "idea" of eating fresh cuts better, i don't know why, it just seems more natural to me. I don't know if unfresh meat would react well for me or not but I guess it's worth giving it a try, especially if it gets a bunch of good bacterias in me.

Beef is always aged quite a while before it's cut for sale, so I wouldn't worry about considering it un-fresh.

Quote
Also, is it really that bad to eat raw beef that isn't organic and is grain fed? I'm really starting to think about eating one of those raw. I really didn't like the organic one I bought as much as the ones I usually get.

Organic beef is quite different from grassfed beef. The problem is that cattle are designed to eat grass and other forage plants like clover, not grains. Grains, even organic ones, upset the digestive environment of cattle, sicken the animal, and form a breeding ground for dangerous bacteria.  To complicate things even further, feeding operations that finish cattle on grain are designed for easy delivery of grain to the cattle, so the cattle are not given free open range and end up living in and breathing the dust from their own feces.

Select grassfed ONLY when you buy beef. Similarly, other animals should be eating their natural foods, even farmed fish are often fed corn-based feed - LOL can you imagine a salmon nibbling on an ear of corn?
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Offline raw-al

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Re: raw meat and gas pains?
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2014, 05:49:58 am »
I have an article on the label nonsense that you speak of Eve. It's totally amazing what the new crop of titles means re: Natural, GMO free etc. I will scan the page and post it. From Consumer's Reports Magazine.
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Offline thunderseed

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Re: raw meat and gas pains?
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2014, 08:56:59 am »
Beef is always aged quite a while before it's cut for sale, so I wouldn't worry about considering it un-fresh.

Organic beef is quite different from grassfed beef. The problem is that cattle are designed to eat grass and other forage plants like clover, not grains. Grains, even organic ones, upset the digestive environment of cattle, sicken the animal, and form a breeding ground for dangerous bacteria.  To complicate things even further, feeding operations that finish cattle on grain are designed for easy delivery of grain to the cattle, so the cattle are not given free open range and end up living in and breathing the dust from their own feces.

Select grassfed ONLY when you buy beef. Similarly, other animals should be eating their natural foods, even farmed fish are often fed corn-based feed - LOL can you imagine a salmon nibbling on an ear of corn?

Thanks for answering my question. I've heard people lecture about never eating grain fed beef so many times so it kind of worries me to do it, although I have never once heard a factual reason why I should stay away from grain fed meats.
It doesn't seem to be a good enough reason to stay away from it though.
If it is really just for the reasons you listed off, I will probably just go gobble down a huge fatty raw grain fed steak right now LoL, simply because those statements aren't all accurate. However, I still would like to figure out other reasons why people don't, maybe there is something else to it.

This might be coming from the fad that grains are unhealthy for all humans and that they cause inflammation and disease, ect therefore we should all exist on a low carb diet and also stay away from grainfed meats, but given my knowledge in physiology, I know that isn't accurate. It also has no place in a paleo diet, because our ancestors ate carbs...

I'm still not entirely sold on this idea though, I would definitely need more proof, it seems unproven and unfactual and it's just that I was actually raised on a 400 acre dairy farm with over 300 milk cows, we used some grain for feed, and our cows were the healthiest on the island, except for the odd case of meningitis and times when birds would crap in the cow feed which could kill cows, which is why my dad spent a lot of time shooting starlings. Cows shouldn't be ingesting feces.
Crop grains are grass, more specifically seeds from grasses, cows have no problem digesting them because cows eat all types of edible plants when put in the wild, wild cows have digested these grains in natural abundance since the beginning of time, the only difference is they are being harvested by man now and often times made into pellets.
We lived on raw milk straight from the cow, and despite the cattle consuming things other than grass and the amount of lime spread on feilds and pesticide in corn seed, the raw milk kept us from ever getting cavities, chicken pox and we never got sick.

The cows ate mainly grass in the form of silage that we preserved in gigantic silage bags. They lived in barns so were not free, but sometimes were allowed to go wild to keep the land guarded because we often rented more feilds further away from the farmstead, and then they turned wild and naturally skittish and aggressive very fast.
The main reason farmers keep cows in barns is to keep them from predators, because otherwise they are easy prey. I'm not sure what barn you have been walking through but I would be awefully worried if there was manure dust, because that should not exist in a healthy environment, first of all because manure does not create dust, it remains wet. Barn floors are supposed to be scraped regularily and manure is dumped into the manure pit, which is used later on feilds. Barns are extremely well ventilated, otherwise, the building would literally explode due to methane gas. The cows do not have breathing problems or health issues due to the smell, neither do farmers who work 24/7 in the barns.
Corn season allowed us to plant cow corn and it was also fermented, and haybails were stored in haylofts throughout the winter, and made sure to keep dry or else they could catch on fire. Many farmers we know have had barn fires that way. We would occasionaly get shipments of alfalfa, and there were grain pellets stored. Grain was mainly given to the calves for added nutrition. The calves would drink fresh milk twice a day from big bottles or as they got older from bucket, and get a bucket of fresh grain pellets, lots of water, and have some hay but they did not feed on silage or grass like the cows. Also, we had huge salt blocks for the cows to lick on which they loved, something to do with keeping them healthy but I can't remember the exact reason.
We weren't a beef farm but sometimes when we lost cows, instead of leaving them out in the boneyards for scavengers we had them butchered and it was the best meat I've ever tasted, and have never been able to find any steaks like that since I've lived in town. (The steaks we get in all the butcher shops here are shipped from Alberta and aren't local ).

The grains we used never upset the digestion in cows, they have more than one solid stomache hehe and chew their cud, they always have very good digestion, nor did it make them sick but there are farms around that have very sick animals for many reasons, but eating grains is not typically one of those reasons. It's not like most people can walk through the barns to look at the cows or follow a farmer around on his errands before they buy the meat. But unfortunately, it is best to buy meat from a source you can trust. That's impossible here in town LoL.

The number one thing I would be worried about when purchasing meat is the experience of the farmer. I'll tell you why I trust big "industrial" farms more - there may be some things I don't agree with, but generally, they know what they are doing. Because the small private farms that farm organic, grass fed beef are usually owned by inexperienced hippies who have no generational experience or knowledge about agriculture and that is a very specific science. These big farms tend to get a bad name but the truth is they tend to be a lot safer than most small farms.
You could be buying grassfed meats or "free range" meats where the cows are allowed to roam free in a small feild, but you have no idea what the state of that grass is. There is more to farming healthy cows then just letting them roam in a feild!!! I can tell you though, unless they are truly wild animals, they aren't going to be healthy  - which is exactly why the science of agriculture was invented, to grow new crops properly. Free range cows would need to roam in a neverending wilderness for them to be truly healthy, not just a feild, otherwise said feild becomes trampeled, they mow it down and wait for the same grass to grow again, therefore cows are forced to eat the same grass over and over again - that is not healthy for the grass or the cows.
If it is a small farm, chances are, they are NOT taking proper care of that grass.
Real wild cows NEVER stay in one spot and munch on the same grass. Feilds must be cropped and completely started over many times to grow healthy crops.

The only thing that grain (good grain) does is give them added nutrients and make them fatter, which actually ups milk production and makes them healthier, but the cows need a good balanced diet, which also is a science. Besides, real wild cows do not just eat grass, seeing as grass does not grow everywhere, they would eat all types of edible ruffage, even naturally growing grains.

Besides I've heard some paleo dieters claim grass fed is better as it makes the meat leaner.
I don't like lean meat. I think it's gross without fat content. No meat was ever completely lean back in paleo times. I think that's unnatural.

I would be more worried about injections and chemicals that are used. I think people should be concerned about more areas in regards to where their beef and raw milk comes from then it just being grassfed, there's a lot to take into consideration.

It's just going to take a lot more than that to convince me not to eat grain fed beef, and I really want to try it raw because the stuff I normally get that is fed grain for 3 months before they die, I just love LoL I just can't seem to find any accurate information about why not to, even though people say not to and it's not like I want to die after eating a grainfed meat just to see LoL

I just wish I could eat meat as fresh as possible. You know like, go out hunt the animal, eat it right away - that would be more natural and more nutrient dense. I don't like the idea of aging after cut because the myoglobin and heme iron doesn't last that long, it'll eventually turn brown, and Im sure loses nutrients in the process. I understand aging is supposed to make it easier to digest or at least more tender and flavorful, but I don't think that's the case for everyone. I mean I know for some people eating cooked or aged meat is harder to digest then eating it raw and as fresh as possible.
I'll give it a try though.

Im airing out my organic grassfed steak right now for a few hours. Will try it for dinner again and hopefully I don't get gas again.
Gas pains seem to be gone, probably because I had diareah this morning. Wonder if I got e.coli or something after all haha



« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 09:05:05 am by thunderseed »

Offline eveheart

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Re: raw meat and gas pains?
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2014, 09:35:31 am »
Thanks for answering my question. I've heard people lecture about never eating grain fed beef so many times so it kind of worries me to do it, although I have never once heard a factual reason why I should stay away from grain fed meats. It doesn't seem to be a good enough reason to stay away from it though.

Good read: Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma.

Good documentary: CJ Hunt's "The Perfect Human Diet."

"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline LePatron7

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Re: raw meat and gas pains?
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2014, 09:37:17 am »
Thanks for answering my question. I've heard people lecture about never eating grain fed beef so many times so it kind of worries me to do it, although I have never once heard a factual reason why I should stay away from grain fed meats.

Here sir, a factual reason not to eat grain fed meat.

http://eatwild.com/foodsafety.html

^ Many, many articles linking grain fed, feed lot beef (and other animals) to dangerous/pathogenic microorganisms - which is a particularly large risk to take when eating your food raw.

Here are also some health benefits for grass fed meats.

http://eatwild.com/healthbenefits.htm
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Offline thunderseed

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Re: raw meat and gas pains?
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2014, 10:25:19 am »
Here sir, a factual reason not to eat grain fed meat.

http://eatwild.com/foodsafety.html

^ Many, many articles linking grain fed, feed lot beef (and other animals) to dangerous/pathogenic microorganisms - which is a particularly large risk to take when eating your food raw.

Here are also some health benefits for grass fed meats.

http://eatwild.com/healthbenefits.htm
Thanks, I still don't understand this though after reading that link: if the fear is that the meat will contain bacterias as a result of cattle eating animal by products, why would grass fed be any better, especially if it's free range? There would be feces everywhere if it's free range. Most grass fed farmers still fertilize the feilds with cow manure!!!! Cows are messy animals, it doesn't matter what they eat.
I also don't understand still why people seem to think cows should not eat grains, they are after all plants... and cows eat plants.

"'Densely-stocked industrial farms, where food animals are steadily fed low doses of antibiotics... [are] ideal breeding grounds for drug-resistant bacteria that move from animals to humans,' according to the report."
This quote is more like it. It doesn't matter if its grass or grain fed, it's the antibiotics that do it. Thats what i think at least. Antibiotics are bad news in my eyes.

 I'm assuming it's talking about the bad strain of E.Coli, because originally E.Coli is actually a good bacteria. I can see that eating grains might make their stomaches more acidic. But cattle raised on pasture are not generally cleaner unless they have hundreds of acres to roam on with a small herd, because manure gets everywhere, they eat the same grass over and over and manure cannot be cleaned up unlike a barn where there is equipment made to scrape manure and put it in a manure pit. Both barns (or feedlots) and pastures are not ideal spaces for cattle to be raised in. They are meant to be truly in the wild as nomadic travelling animals that do not stay fenced in one specific place. 
 
In all, if manure is the cause of E. Coli then both grass fed and grain fed cows crap on a regular basis and have the chance for E.Coli, the real question would be, is the slaughterhouse clean or do they clean the cows properly?

What is weird to me though is I had no problem with the non-organic, sterling silver steaks that are grass fed but sent to a grain feedlot for a couple months before they die, and then as soon as I ate that organic grass fed steak from a smaller farm, that is what gave me terrible gas for days then I had diareah this morning. So I'm kind of suspicious of grass fed meats now hahahaa.
I'm not really afraid of E.coli, maybe just a little but generally if you eat raw meat, you'd be risking it anyway no matter what kind it is. That's probably what I ended up getting LoL

I'm just seeing so much conflicting information that this topic confuses me. I'll stick to the grass fed for now, but if I have another problem with it, I'm probably going to be switching back but maybe I'll just stick to searing the outside of the steaks.

Offline LePatron7

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Re: raw meat and gas pains?
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2014, 01:51:08 pm »
It's not that the cows are cleaner in the sense that they're isolated, bathed daily, etc. They live in a field, poo freely, etc. But the diet they eat affects the microbial environment within their body.

When they eat grass, everything functions normally and the strains of bacteria in them is safe. When they eat grains, it acidifies their digestive tracts and to survive the bacteria (ie e coli) become acid resistant. Those acid resistant bacteria aren't the normal bacteria present, they're pathogenic.

Just as diets like The Specific Carbohydrate Diet and GAPS diet strive to change the bacteria by changing the foods consumed, grass feeding changes the bacteria present also. I generally wouldn't recommend similar practices with other non-ruminant animals (chickens, pigs, etc).

If you search this forum enough you'll see plenty of posts by people attempting raw diets trying Aajonous' advice of eating lots of raw chicken and it ending poorly. Generally with some serious microbial infection and coming to this forum legitimately thinking it's "detox," very sad. While chicken can work for some people, and I of course encourage self experimentation (at your own risk), I personally have had diarrhea from uncleaned chicken eggs. I've also had loose stools (symptoms of food poisoning) from grain fed ground buffalo that was left in my fridge for more than a day. I can eat ground grass fed veal that's sat there for days with no problems.

While you're right that antibiotics play a part in making pathogenic microorganisms, altering the internal environment (grain feeding) also modifies the bacteria present. A likely reason for why I got food poisoning from grain fed ground meat.

It's your body, and by all means experiment with anything you like - whether it's grass fed or grain fed. But keep in mind that the diet of the animal, and not just antibiotics, effects the quality of the meat and also the microorganisms present.

An fyi too regarding your original post (eating meat rinsed straight from the package). Generally it's best if it's aired out for a little to modify the bacteria present from being store in plastic. If my meat is purchased when in open air, I'll eat it immediately. If it's been in plastic I rinse it with a salt water brine (unprocessed salt plus distilled water), then put in the open air. Then I'll eat it.

That changes the bacteria present. I dry age all my meat using racks in my fridge. I put a big slab of meat on racks and flip them daily, cutting off what I need daily as I go. I'd suspect the packaging and storage of your meat before you blame it being grass fed.
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Offline thunderseed

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Re: raw meat and gas pains?
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2014, 10:52:50 pm »
Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me, it makes more sense now. So the main concern is acidic levels in cows from eating too many acidic foods and not enough alkaline foods which grows the bad kind of E.coli.

You seem like you are pretty smart at approaching this diet, that's good for taking any risks.
 
E.Coli and Salmonella food poisoning... this is going to sound weird but I really wouldn't mind getting temporary diarreah, but that's just because I get naturally constipated due to a long history of abusing laxatives unless I regularily take my fiber powder, enzymes, apple cider vinegar and stuff. I know it wouldn't kill me because I have a very strong immune system. I've always been undecided when it comes to bacteria, most times it does not scare me at all.
People have always preached to me about not using chlorine in my hottub, but I haven't died from that. I wouldn't care if I bathed in a pond full of gross stuff. I do think that people have more health problems these days because they are too hygenic. I remember back in the day my parent's used to make me and my sister play in dirt, dead things and cow crap and we never got sick Lol true country kids. Now kids aren't allowed to get dirty, are never outside and they are always sick.
The main way to get a strong immune system is to become immune to things in the first place and doing certain activities like hydrotherapy or cold swims also attacks the immune system therefore causing it to become stronger. Also, in the season that the salmon spawn and die in the rivers, I swam with the dead fish carcasses daily. Now they are just skeletons.
I'm a Medical First Responder (very advanced first aid) and work with the Brigade and a whole bunch of ex military people, so bacteria is constantly something we look out for. Sort of off topic, but most viruses like bird flu, HIV and even the flu that keeps coming up like clockwork are all manmade created, it is biological warfare, so we are always learning about how to protect ourselves from viruses and bacterias. But the truth is airborn virus is very hard to spread, so the best way they can make us sick is through food and water supply or through manipulating current strains of sicknesses, not through airborn techniques, but the airborn techniques will make people with very weak immune systems sicker. The whole reason I mention this though is that obviously you only get sick from bacteria through it contacting blood, breathing it in, or ingesting it, ect BUT the only reason people ever get sick from this is because they have low immune systems. If they have high immune systems then NO bacteria would ever bother them, proven by cases of people who have had high risk to certain infections and diseases that are thought to easily spread but never catch it or by the rate in which people cure said diseases or infections that are originally thought to be incurable. It's pretty genious though. They slip chemicals and things into our food that in turn lower our immune systems.
If anything I am more worried about parasites. Yuck. But I do swallow a bit of black walnut tincture often because I like using it on my teeth to help grow back the enamel.

I'd personally never eat raw chicken or pork, I hardly eat those at all cooked, but I was under the understanding that Aajonous Vanderplanits has a theory that pathogens and negative bacterias cannot possibly exist in an environment where there are enough good bacteria to fight it, so sort of dismisses the idea of bad bacteria in the first place, furthermore I read some ideas that apparently pathogens aren't real in the first place LoL. I think people should be cautious about getting sick, especially if they aren't very healthy in the first place.
I mean, I don't have enough experience to tell you what I personally think about all of that but I do compare it to all the horror stories I've ever heard about how people shouldn't drink raw milk because of bacterias. Well I personally grew up on raw milk and never once had a problem with it, niether did my entire family and my friends who came over to enjoy a big cup of it. It's just so sad to me that it became illegal to drink because of bacteria scares. Back in the day when I was a kid and giving raw milk to others wasn't illegal, I remember having friends over and my parent's only allowed my two best friends who were there all the time to drink the raw milk. We sort of knew that giving raw milk to people who have never drank it before or who don't drink it on a regular basis would make them sick, because you have to get immune to it and I don't think that had to do with bacteria. We always just said people had to get used to it first in slow amounts.
 
I don't eat raw eggs all the time but I have off and on for years, I've never cared about the source but regardless I always buy organic because out of everything, I am more worried about chemicals than I am about bacteria. Chemicals are worse for our health and are very damaging. Just mentioning that because I never got sick from eating raw eggs either and I never looked into where they were from or what the chickens ate.

Cool, somebody else mentioned that I might have had issues with the meat because it was wrapped in the plastic and didn't get to air out enough. I was going to air it out for a few hours yesterday but I decided to let it air out overnight instead and I'm also going out of town tomorrow and I don't want to get gas pains while I'm there haha, so I'll wait to eat it when I get back.
How long do you put a packaged meat it in the open air for after rinsing with salt water?
Does rinsing with salt water kill of bacterias or even good bacterias?
I do like it better when it is left sitting on the meat counter in the open instead of being wrapped up.

It's easier to get sick from bacteria from ground meat over steaks just because ground meat has so many surface areas on it, whole cuts have only one surface area on it.

It's not that the cows are cleaner in the sense that they're isolated, bathed daily, etc. They live in a field, poo freely, etc. But the diet they eat affects the microbial environment within their body.

When they eat grass, everything functions normally and the strains of bacteria in them is safe. When they eat grains, it acidifies their digestive tracts and to survive the bacteria (ie e coli) become acid resistant. Those acid resistant bacteria aren't the normal bacteria present, they're pathogenic.

Just as diets like The Specific Carbohydrate Diet and GAPS diet strive to change the bacteria by changing the foods consumed, grass feeding changes the bacteria present also. I generally wouldn't recommend similar practices with other non-ruminant animals (chickens, pigs, etc).

If you search this forum enough you'll see plenty of posts by people attempting raw diets trying Aajonous' advice of eating lots of raw chicken and it ending poorly. Generally with some serious microbial infection and coming to this forum legitimately thinking it's "detox," very sad. While chicken can work for some people, and I of course encourage self experimentation (at your own risk), I personally have had diarrhea from uncleaned chicken eggs. I've also had loose stools (symptoms of food poisoning) from grain fed ground buffalo that was left in my fridge for more than a day. I can eat ground grass fed veal that's sat there for days with no problems.

While you're right that antibiotics play a part in making pathogenic microorganisms, altering the internal environment (grain feeding) also modifies the bacteria present. A likely reason for why I got food poisoning from grain fed ground meat.

It's your body, and by all means experiment with anything you like - whether it's grass fed or grain fed. But keep in mind that the diet of the animal, and not just antibiotics, effects the quality of the meat and also the microorganisms present.

An fyi too regarding your original post (eating meat rinsed straight from the package). Generally it's best if it's aired out for a little to modify the bacteria present from being store in plastic. If my meat is purchased when in open air, I'll eat it immediately. If it's been in plastic I rinse it with a salt water brine (unprocessed salt plus distilled water), then put in the open air. Then I'll eat it.

That changes the bacteria present. I dry age all my meat using racks in my fridge. I put a big slab of meat on racks and flip them daily, cutting off what I need daily as I go. I'd suspect the packaging and storage of your meat before you blame it being grass fed.

Offline LePatron7

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Re: raw meat and gas pains?
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2014, 11:25:35 pm »
Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me, it makes more sense now. So the main concern is acidic levels in cows from eating too many acidic foods and not enough alkaline foods which grows the bad kind of E.coli.

Not exactly. Because the foods don't digest properly, the digestive tract acidifies in an attempt to break down the food. Not necessarily because they're alkaline or acid forming foods, like how some promote plants as being alkalizing and meats being acidic.
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Offline thunderseed

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Re: raw meat and gas pains?
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2014, 05:38:31 pm »
Not exactly. Because the foods don't digest properly, the digestive tract acidifies in an attempt to break down the food. Not necessarily because they're alkaline or acid forming foods, like how some promote plants as being alkalizing and meats being acidic.
This is false.

 

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