Author Topic: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster  (Read 75969 times)

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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #200 on: March 04, 2014, 05:49:24 am »
I agree,,  a little bit like the boy who called wolf...
This is just a means of expression. I use it especially when people are using anti-raw or anti-palaeo arguments. The one Iguana is using is a hoary, old one used by anti-rawists in order to justify cooking, which is why I am most surprised to find him using it.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline van

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #201 on: March 04, 2014, 06:29:16 am »
Two things,, first is I don't think Iguana has any intention of mentioning it and promoting cooking...  But the other, is how the word 'rubbish' comes across in written form.  It simply doesn't promote healthy debate.  I can see it used in a lively person to person conversation, where you can see body and facial expression, but here, I think if you wrote that to me about something I had written, I might take it the wrong way.      And then I always appreciate your varied opinions...

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #202 on: March 04, 2014, 06:55:03 am »
Don't bother mentioning chufas again, as they contain plentiful amounts of antinutrients/phytosterols.

Any genuine Instincto in palaeo times would have avoided unripe bananas and gone in for ripe yellow ones instead, for obvious reasons re taste. Plantains, huh? One of the most tasteless plant foods  I have ever eaten.

Soaking in water is a form of processing.  This would not have occurred until the Neolithic era  for obvious reasons, since food preparation in palaeo times would have consisted of no more than hiding food under a rock to let it decompose. Letting foods decompose is about the only natural form of processing  there is.
So if chufas are still verboten despite being edible raw and Iguana liking their taste, then is the real problem with them not that they taste vile after all? I don't recall you mentioning before that chufas are too high in antinutrients/phytosterols. Did you find some information on that? How do you know they contain too much  antinutrients/phytosterols that can’t be mostly metabolized into harmless nutrients by those with sufficient digestion and/or bacteria?

What are the new rules, that we shouldn't eat anything that contains significant antinutrients or phytosterols or is not tasty, as determined by you, and we shouldn't soak anything because Paleolithic hunter gatherers allegedly didn't? How much phytosterols is too much? Are freezing and drying OK?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #203 on: March 04, 2014, 03:23:57 pm »
Two things,, first is I don't think Iguana has any intention of mentioning it and promoting cooking... 

Well,  I use the word "rubbish" often when I would far rather use more explicit language: "Rubbish" is quite mild by comparison to what I would really like to say  when confronted with the more dodgy anti-raw arguments. I know Iguana is technically not wanting to be anti-raw, incidentally, but he is using a standard anti-raw argument:- the idea that if something contains  "only"    l) l) l)  small amounts of  toxins, that this is OK to eat.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #204 on: March 04, 2014, 03:53:38 pm »
That's not really what I mean, Geoff.

Many substances can be either beneficial (nutrients) or noxious (anti-nutrients) depending on the circumstances: species of animal, dose, current state of the animal/ person, genetic differences between individuals, etc.

Not only the characteristics of the stuff must be considered, but also those of the animal who eats it. Thus, we have a relative and fluctuant situation with several variables.

It seems also obvious that at least some plants can be beneficial in small doses but toxic at a higher dose. Even an excessive intake of water can be deadly!
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Sorentus

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #205 on: March 05, 2014, 12:13:28 am »
What is food for one can be poison for another, just because someone has eaten various food containing anti-nutriment that doesn't mean anyone else should be fine eating them and that goes for raw paleo or any other diet.

Offline LePatron7

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #206 on: March 05, 2014, 01:58:32 am »
It's interesting that there's so much bashing of plant foods, yet all the healthiest animals we eat (ruminants - cows, sheep, etc) all eat plants.
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Offline nummi

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #207 on: March 05, 2014, 02:08:23 am »
even true carnivorous animals eat plants. although it's rather more like nibbling on grasses once in a while. because there's something in them they need, like calcium, magnesium, iron, fiber, etc.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #208 on: March 05, 2014, 04:55:55 am »
That's not really what I mean, Geoff.

Many substances can be either beneficial (nutrients) or noxious (anti-nutrients) depending on the circumstances: species of animal, dose, current state of the animal/ person, genetic differences between individuals, etc.

Not only the characteristics of the stuff must be considered, but also those of the animal who eats it. Thus, we have a relative and fluctuant situation with several variables.

It seems also obvious that at least some plants can be beneficial in small doses but toxic at a higher dose. Even an excessive intake of water can be deadly!

You are as usual missing the whole point, which is that plants deliberately produce those antinutrients in order to discourage animals from eating them. They are therefore never meant to be beneficial at all, in the first place.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #209 on: March 05, 2014, 04:59:24 am »
So if chufas are still verboten despite being edible raw and Iguana liking their taste, then is the real problem with them not that they taste vile after all? I don't recall you mentioning before that chufas are too high in antinutrients/phytosterols. Did you find some information on that? How do you know they contain too much  antinutrients/phytosterols that can’t be mostly metabolized into harmless nutrients by those with sufficient digestion and/or bacteria?

What are the new rules, that we shouldn't eat anything that contains significant antinutrients or phytosterols or is not tasty, as determined by you, and we shouldn't soak anything because Paleolithic hunter gatherers allegedly didn't? How much phytosterols is too much? Are freezing and drying OK?
*sigh* As I pointed out to Iguana, if a plant has antinutrients, it has designed itself to NOT be eaten! Therefore it should be avoided.  As for how I found it out, I googled it, of course.  Palaeo guidelines anyway mean that foods high in antinutrients can be easily avoided if one follows them.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #210 on: March 05, 2014, 05:04:13 am »
You are as usual missing the whole point,
Some weeks ago, you wrote "Iguana is right, as usual"!  ;D
Yeah, I'm fully aware of what you say, but still there are animals (called herbivores) who feed on those plants packed with antinutrients, as DaBoss pointed out.

*sigh* As I pointed out to Iguana, if a plant has antinutrients, it has designed itself to NOT be eaten! Therefore it should be avoided.  As for how I found it out, I googled it, of course.  Palaeo guidelines anyway mean that foods high in antinutrients can be easily avoided if one follows them.
Ok then, we’ll have to admit that hominids in the Paleolithic era refrained to eat chufas even if they liked it because they knew that a million years latter biochemists in their laboratories would find these little sweet things packed with plenty anti-nutrients. Why not, they must have had powerful shamans!

Are we here to have reasonable, logical discussions and info sharing or to remain deadlocked until our death into unchallengeable respective stances? 

Cheers
François 
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #211 on: March 05, 2014, 05:30:08 am »
Some weeks ago, you wrote "Iguana is right, as usual"!  ;D
Yeah, I'm fully aware of what you say, but still there are animals (called herbivores) who feed on those plants packed with antinutrients, as DaBoss pointed out.
Ok then, we’ll have to admit that hominids in the Paleolithic era refrained to eat chufas even if they liked it because they knew that a million years latter biochemists in their laboratories would find these little sweet things packed with plenty anti-nutrients. Why not, they must have had powerful shamans!

Are we here to have reasonable, logical discussions and info sharing or to remain deadlocked until our death into unchallengeable respective stances? 

Cheers
François 

Those herbivores which eat such plants have specially adapted stomachs/digestive systems  designed to break down and counter the toxins in the plants. Even then, many animals which eat plants high in toxins often have to  resort to other tactics in order to deal with the toxins. For example, parrots eating plants high in antinutrients routinely feed on kaolin/clay  which helps get rid of the toxins.

Re the other  absurd claim:-  The whole point is that, due to our enhanced science, we know which foods to avoid and can do so. Palaeo peoples did not have access to such info so would have died from the accidental eating of a deathcap mushroom, say. Interestingly,  I recall one study of a typical hunter gatherer tribe which stated that they traditionally viewed tubers(like chufas) as low-grade food that they only ate during starvation-periods, whereas they far preferred the taste of meats etc.

I am appalled that you would use a standard anti-raw argument, re claiming that foods  with small amounts of toxins are "OK" - it's a lame argument and easily debunked, anyway.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #212 on: March 05, 2014, 05:48:54 am »
I am appalled that you would use a standard anti-raw argument, re claiming that foods  with small amounts of toxins are "OK" - it's a lame argument and easily debunked, anyway.
No, I don't say that. I mean that the organisms have a capacity to detoxify a certain amount of toxins or "antinutrients" in a food, so the valuable nutrients in that food can be used. Only when the capacity of the body to detoxify those toxins is overwhelmed, then, and only then, the food becomes noxious. It's all a matter of correct dosing. 

You bring forward again the tale that paleo people would have accidentally die from ingesting a deathcap mushroom, ignoring the answer already given that GCB proved this doesn't happen when the mushroom is raw and unprocessed because its taste is bad. There are plenty of other kinds of poisonous plants in nature, but animals are still thriving on this planet because they avoid those plants,  and that without the help of modern science.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 05:59:24 am by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #213 on: March 05, 2014, 07:29:09 am »
I know Iguana is technically not wanting to be anti-raw, incidentally, but he is using a standard anti-raw argument:- the idea that if something contains  "only"    l) l) l)  small amounts of  toxins, that this is OK to eat.
Do you mean that even small amounts of plant toxins are too much and should be avoided? Is there any safe amount? If so, how much?

*sigh* As I pointed out to Iguana, if a plant has antinutrients, it has designed itself to NOT be eaten! Therefore it should be avoided.  As for how I found it out, I googled it, of course.
So we should avoid all foods that contain any antinutrients, like the phytosterols you mentioned? Anything that needs soaking is just out, yes? Thanks for Googling it. How much phytosterols do chufas contain?

Re the other  absurd claim:-  The whole point is that, due to our enhanced science, we know which foods to avoid and can do so.
What is this enhanced science?

Quote
Interestingly,  I recall one study of a typical hunter gatherer tribe which stated that they traditionally viewed tubers(like chufas) as low-grade food that they only ate during starvation-periods, whereas they far preferred the taste of meats etc.
I think that was the Hadza tribe, yes?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #214 on: March 05, 2014, 03:56:31 pm »
PP has repeated a post he made elsewhere, no point in replying.

Re GCB:- Sorry, but the claim sounds highly dodgy to me.
 I simply do not believe it.

Re the other point:- Yes, the body has a limited ability to handle minor toxins. But this poses a burden for the body. If that burden is constantly repeated through constant chufa consumption etc., even if the body can still handle it,  it means that the body will have expended resources it could have used elsewhere.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #215 on: March 05, 2014, 04:16:34 pm »
It's no question to constantly repeat the consumption of chufas, but to just eat an amount limited by our instinct once in a way and only as it remains tasty.

The experiment with mushrooms can be very easily replicated by anyone. If a mushroom has an attractive smell, only then it may be carefully tested in the mouth several seconds before either spitting or swallowing it. I'm not scared to test any wild plant.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #216 on: March 05, 2014, 07:37:13 pm »
It's no question to constantly repeat the consumption of chufas, but to just eat an amount limited by our instinct once in a way and only as it remains tasty.

The experiment with mushrooms can be very easily replicated by anyone. If a mushroom has an attractive smell, only then it may be carefully tested in the mouth several seconds before either spitting or swallowing it. I'm not scared to test any wild plant.
How many wild animals actually bother to test a wild plant before eating it? None, I'd say.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #217 on: March 05, 2014, 08:05:56 pm »
Right: mammals' sense of smell seems to be much more powerful than ours, so they apparently rely on it and would not test anything if not attracted to it by their nose. A striking case is the elephants, who can move their nose around in search for food, instead of moving and constantly lowering the whole huge animal!  :)

For birds and fish, I don't know how they choose their food, I never bothered to search, but it could be interesting to know. Training by the parents is certainly also useful or even necessary.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #218 on: March 06, 2014, 11:26:34 am »
This should help the open minded dispel some of the "Paleofantasies" about the Eskimos and Stone Agers:
Quote
A few weeks ago, we uncovered the secret to an ancient starchy tuber that is more nutrient dense than red meat and is absent from the modern "Paleo" diet.

We also learned that starchy forbs and grassy tubers dominated the landscape of the ice age. Our ancestors were even grinding starches on millstones at the peak of the ice age.

Today, in Part 1 of this two-part post, we begin to dismantle the myth of the Inuit and the Masai who supposedly ate no starch, no fibers and no prebiotics.

In fact, those cultures did eat animal starches and animal fibers. Unfortunately, unless one does their own hunting and eats part of their kills raw, those animal starches and fibers are all but missing from a modern low carb diet. ...

Read more at: Disrupting Paleo: Inuit and Masai Ate Carbs and Prebiotics, Part 1
http://freetheanimal.com/2014/03/disrupting-carbs-prebiotics.html
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #219 on: March 17, 2014, 05:21:16 am »
In case anyone's still wondering why I'm not enamored with "the autoimmune protocol" [AIP] diet or chronic ZC/VLC Paleo as a long-term way of eating, or what sort of benefits resistant starch can offer, check out this Facebook comment from Robb Wolf, one of the leading proponents of the AIP and Paleo (emphasis mine):
Quote
Been doing RS (jumped right in at 4TBL/day...I guess I got lucky I did not explode) Purely subjective findings: Digestion is better than in past 15 years. My pesky problem of not tolerating the carbs I need to train MMA/BJJ is largely gone. I still partition more carbs PWO, have fewer on non-training days, but overall very impressed with the results. I bit leaner, good performance. In the past my concept of "gut health" largely started and stopped with "avoid gluten." Now I look at green plantain chips as a means to get "awesome poos" and stave off blood sugar wackyness. I would have called extreme BS on this as I;ve always eaten a ton of greens, squash etc but I find Richard does not align with silly shit AND the solution was like $2/bag. When shit is that cheap, it's got to work.

January 21 at 10:18pm https://www.facebook.com/rnikoley/posts/10151979889556137
If you aren't a Facebook member, it's also available here, along with some commentary: http://freetheanimal.com/2014/01/great-potato-starch.html

I think with his last sentence he means that if lots of folks are reporting good results from something and there's no big profit motive, then there is likely something more to it than marketing hype.

I've noticed that the type of diet for which devotees and promoters seem to most highly recommend and talk about iodine and magnesium supplements is chronic VLC/ZC. It's one of the many things that tipped me off that going too far in that direction might not be wise in the longer term.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 06:11:05 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Iguana

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #220 on: March 17, 2014, 05:38:58 am »
AIP, TBL, PWO, MMA/BJJ, BS? Sorry, I don’t understand that language!  :(
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #221 on: March 17, 2014, 06:10:41 am »
AIP is autoimmune protocol

These are what I think Robb meant:

TBL = tablespoons
PWO = post workout
MMA = mixed martial arts
BJJ = Brazilian jiu-jitsu
BS = bull shit  :D
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Iguana

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #222 on: March 17, 2014, 06:16:30 am »
Thanks! I suspected that for BS, but had no clue for the others!
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Online sabertooth

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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #223 on: March 18, 2014, 11:42:20 am »
Being well versed in the art of B.S..... I believe that there is room for a little give and take in this argument, regarding our capacity to adapt to anti nutrients and such.

Naturally organisms wish to maintain homeostasis, so whenever environmental stability would allow, creatures will develop specialized diets so as to limit their exposures to mutigenic compounds. These mutigenic compounds that an organism is exposed to when consuming foods outside of their habitual range, will cause physical discomfort , sickness, and will trigger the beginning of mutagenesis which is the process by which adaptation is passed to the next generation.

Having adapted to a particular diet an organism becomes dependent on a limited variety of food stuffs, from which its own DNA has become accustom Organisms will instinctively avoid mutagenic compounds that may jeopardize their present sense of well being. The bitter taste or unpleasant taste warns one that there is something to be avoided. Only as a last resort, when the pains of hunger and the prospects of starvation become present, will an organism dare to ingest material that they would instinctively avoid during times of plenty.

Mutegenisis is often a result of environmental changes which force an organism to consume foodstuffs outside of its genetically adapted comfort zone. More often than not it is a matter of survival which drives the desperate and dieing to consume foods which would normally be avoided. The results of the process of ingesting foods that one isn't fully mutagenically adapted are highly unpredictable, and the genetic changes that result of this are passed down to the next generation. The process has been mislabeled in the past as "random mutation" and I believe the word Mutagenesis a is more accurate term. Its often a brutal process which leads to deformity and failures of subsequent generations, which are dealt with through the process of " natural selection". For those who survive, the transnational changes provide the means by which an organism can mutagenically adapt to a change in environment.
 
Through our evolutionary history we have had long periods of relative stability, followed by times of incredible and drastic change. There is no doubt that our dietary past has left its mark, and has lead us to be the most adaptable omnivore on the planet.

The New science of micro RNA shows us how the food we eat actually is assimilated into our DNA. Over time dietary changes will reprogram our genes in order to facilitate Adaption. All life springs forth from a single source, and the genetic material of all the organic matter we consume infuses with our own genetics and alters the expression of our own biological workings, in a synergistic way, that works toward maintaining a balance and harmony between an organism and the environment composed of other organisms. It would greatly benefit the progress of scientific understanding if these discoveries where more clearly understood by the mainstream.

This process of adaption to the intake of organic sustenance of genetically unfamiliar sources is often not very pleasant, and for animals to become adapted to the anti-nutrients, bio-toxins, and mutagens, contained in historically alien food stuff, there are negative consequences. The great plagues and scourges of our history are a testament to the painful process of adaption. Though, while many who attempted to survive off of foodstuffs they were ill adapted too, were wiped out and annihilated by natural selection..... there were those who were able to develop the genetic adaption necessary to survive on grain rich, cooked diets full of bio-toxins and anti-nutrients.

In digression, I am one who feels like there are many layers to the discussion, and though some segments of the human population have been able to adapt to significant amounts of anti-nutrient rich neolithic foodstuffs, that does not mean that these foods are optimal.

Even though some may have an adapted to handling these modern foods, these adaptions are so new that they have yet to work all the bugs out of the program. Also the environment is continuing to be polluted and degradated at a rate far beyond the capacity of any organisms capacity to adapt. It should be obvious to people on this forum that many people are still struggling to conform to these complex and artificially concocted changes to the human diet that began in Neolithic times, and have reach a level of out of control insanity within our present day. 

For the people who are not suited to consuming the high levels of anti-nutrients, caramelized proteins, vegetable oils and refined carbohydrates which make up the base of the modern diet, there is a better way. The paleo diet can lead you back to more stable dietary default setting which remain hidden deep within in our genetic hard drives, awaiting the signal to reactivate.   
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 11:50:09 am by sabertooth »
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Re: Zero Carb and VLC/Ketogenic - A Lethal Recipe for Disaster
« Reply #224 on: March 18, 2014, 03:22:17 pm »
I think it has to do with our redox potential... a lot. If it is great you can take so much more.

Sadly, our modern world easily destroys that redox potential of ours.

More about redox if you are interested. A very much recommended read;

http://jackkruse.com/redox-rx/

Quote

  1.  How do I test or measure my redox potential?
  2.  How do I improve my redox potential?
  3.  How is the redox potential described in summary?







 

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