Author Topic: Humans Natural/Optimal Habitat  (Read 65904 times)

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Offline Carne Cruda

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Re: Humans Natural/Optimal Habitat
« Reply #275 on: September 17, 2015, 08:23:23 pm »
I was too until I noticed that Charles silenced or banned anyone who reported bad results from ZC. LOL  The ZIOH forum is a lot like the 30bananasaday forum in the way that coctivore ZCers do.
...
Yes, Charles did talk about vitamin C and scurvy quite a bit and I questioned Charles face-to-face on it years ago and he didn't have a good answer. Wish I could remember the exact question. I do remember that he wasn't as knowledgeable about it as he pretended, but his devoted followers ate up what he said anyway. I didn't pursue it further to avoid stirring up a hornets nest of anger at a friendly gathering. :)

That doesn't surprise me in the least.

I'm ZC most days of a year, and among the other days I'll probably be VVLC 80% of them. That tells you a lot.

But I totally agree about the similitudes between ZIOH and 30Bananas, in those regards.

Many ZIOH members are delusional, first and foremost their leader.
For sure,  the fact that you cannot gain weight, or that you'll lose weight on the long term, just by eating only animal foods, is easy to refute.
Type of meat, cooking, salting, flavoring, and such, have a lot more to do with it.
In spite of being ZC/VLC, on the subject of weight loss, I lean more towards the importance of "reward" of foods vs. "insulin" effect.

Everyone can try eating bacon, ribs, cream, butter, and so on, "at libitum", for 6 months in a row, and most people will eventually get fat.

Simply, meats, on average, are less rewarding than many carbohydrate rich foods, plus eliminating variety, as one does being ZC, helps in that sense too.
Of course if you were obese you'll generally drop weight.
ZC foods take you to a lower "set point", than including foods like pizza, icecream, sodas, nice pastas, fries, and so on.

But thinking that eating bacon vs. raw suet, or even grilled ribs vs. raw ground beef, would make no difference, weight wise, in my opinion is almost laughable.
Same thing for the stance that the reason nuts and dairy might cause weight gain is because of their small carb content.
INSULIN INSULIN INSULIN INSULIN

And there's no way that they'll let you point it out things like that.
Even if you actually eat ZC.

I know plenty of ZC's aren't, after a long time by now, even close to the weight they'd like to be at.
Nonetheless, no one should dare question ZIOH efficacy.

I pointed out the weight (loss) aspect, because, again, it's a pretty easy one to refute.

Quote
from today's entry:
facebook.com/groups/zioh2/permalink/940930345949198/
...
You eat meat and drink water in crazy quantities. You don't gain. No obese person ever gained significant weight on ZC. They didn't lose what they wanted sometimes but they did NOT gain. You can eat as much meat as you wish to yet you don't gain!
...
Yeah, sure... try that with bacon and let me know how it goes.
 ;D ;D
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 10:14:18 pm by Carne Cruda »

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Humans Natural/Optimal Habitat
« Reply #276 on: September 18, 2015, 08:36:49 am »
I pointed out the weight (loss) aspect, because, again, it's a pretty easy one to refute.


Quote

from today's entry:
facebook.com/groups/zioh2/permalink/940930345949198/
...
You eat meat and drink water in crazy quantities. You don't gain. No obese person ever gained significant weight on ZC. They didn't lose what they wanted sometimes but they did NOT gain. You can eat as much meat as you wish to yet you don't gain!
...



Yeah, sure... try that with bacon and let me know how it goes.
Yeah, Lex Rooker tested that claim that one cannot gain weight on ZC and reported in his journal that he did. I did also meet some of the ZCers who had been doing it for years and were still overweight and not losing weight.

More concerning were some of the negative health effects that some reported and then were deleted/banned.

It is possible for some to lose weight on it and Charles became quite thin on a combination of ZC and long distance running. Despite frequently admonishing those with weight loss stalls to eat more (as the 30BAD people also advise) and claiming that CICO is wrong and calories don't count, I think he contradictorily reported that he had cut his consumption (and therefore calories), but my memory is fuzzy on that.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Humans Natural/Optimal Habitat
« Reply #277 on: September 18, 2015, 09:23:49 am »
If I recall correctly, Lex had to eat around 90% fat before he gained weight. But that may differ from person to person.

I do imagine, though, that mono-eating raw grassfed or wild meats, including organs, with at least 20% of calories from protein, would be a nearly foolproof way to lose excess weight. Overeating would be extremely difficult. I'm not sure even those people who get up to 900+ lbs could avoid losing weight that way.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Humans Natural/Optimal Habitat
« Reply #278 on: September 18, 2015, 06:54:42 pm »
Yes, Lex's fat intake was huge during the weight gain experiment--I think it was at least over 80% of calories, IIRC.

 Yes, raw carnivory is probably more effective for weightloss than cooked.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Humans Natural/Optimal Habitat
« Reply #279 on: September 18, 2015, 08:24:12 pm »
Yes, Lex's fat intake was huge during the weight gain experiment--I think it was at least over 80% of calories, IIRC.

 Yes, raw carnivory is probably more effective for weightloss than cooked.

No, I believe he said that 80% fat maintained weight, but 90% caused weight gain. Anyway, we can check his thread when we have more time.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Humans Natural/Optimal Habitat
« Reply #280 on: September 19, 2015, 05:35:35 am »
Ah yes, I think it was something like that.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

 

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