Author Topic: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?  (Read 7517 times)

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Offline Alamadri

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Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« on: March 03, 2014, 05:05:15 pm »
"Avoid making high meat out of most fish, When many types of fish, such as tuna and mackerel, rot, especially at higher temperatures, they accumulate histamine, which can cause a severe allergic reaction that can result in death if not treated immediately."
Could anyone help me figure this out?if it is truth? If aajonus says not to do this?
Thanks

Offline jessica

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2014, 10:11:12 pm »
not sure if its true but I have dry aged salmon before and its delicious, the fat seems to seep out of the surface.

I don't know why you would let fresh mackerel rot...lol.  the book of human fermentation by bill molison has all kinds of anecdotes and "recipes" for fermenting fish

a good way to do "raw" fish is to submerge them in some kraut or whey

Offline Alamadri

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2014, 10:54:08 pm »
Well, i would let it rot for the same befenefits as rotten meat,i dont care about taste that much,since i had to give up all carbs..except white rice with little watercress)anyway ,but i got a litle "worried" about this..maybe some species are ok  others not so much..?i would like to find some more info on this..because i eat,a,lot of mackerel and wanted a probiotic suplement..
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 11:33:06 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline Iguana

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2014, 11:12:51 pm »
Dried wild fish fillets are usually good, but rotten fish is bad.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Online TylerDurden

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2014, 11:35:29 pm »
Everyone is different. I find the taste of rotting seafood to be extremely offputting, even after many years of experimentation, whereas I find it easy to enjoy the taste of raw rotting meats from land-mammals(heart and tongue, mainly). By contrast, others such as the Inuit love the taste of raw, rotting fish.

Offline Alamadri

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2014, 11:48:53 pm »
I wonder if the histamine "poisoning" is real, if certain fish could be a problem to eat rotted, while others ar fine..

Offline Iguana

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2014, 03:19:16 am »
As, TD says, everyone is different... and every fish is different. I said rotten fish is bad, that's true most of the times, but it can't be totally excluded that you may like some particular "rotten" fish. If it's appealing to you, then eat it as much as it remains tasty. It's that simple, you don't have to rely on what others say.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline LePatron7

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 04:36:14 am »
I can't say one way or the other that it's dangerous or not. What I can say is that Aajonous gave a lot of potentially dangerous, and (likely) made up advice.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail.

Nocebo Effect - a detrimental effect on health produced by psychological or psychosomatic factors such as negative expectations of treatment or prognosis

Med free since 03/21/2014

Offline Alamadri

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2014, 10:26:22 am »
I can't say one way or the other that it's dangerous or not. What I can say is that Aajonous gave a lot of potentially dangerous, and (likely) made up advice.

Could you give some examples?

Offline Alamadri

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2014, 10:47:36 am »
As, TD says, everyone is different... and every fish is different. I said rotten fish is bad, that's true most of the times, but it can't be totally excluded that you may like some particular "rotten" fish. If it's appealing to you, then eat it as much as it remains tasty. It's that simple, you don't have to rely on what others say.
Unfortunately my intuition on food,leads me to sufer..i can give some examples..i love fruit..if i could,i would eat it all the time,raw honey with avocafo and raw goat cheese..as far as taste goes and what is apealing to my senses, fruit,honey and dairy beat any other food..unfortunately, if i eat those,i wont be able to move for almosy 3 weeks..fructose will acumulate in my liver,intestines and kidneys, and will have to eat non apealing raw eggs, until they cleanse acumullated fructose..(hereditary fructose intolerance)..with dairy ,its the same, and i dont know why..maybe im allergic, dont know..i love it tough.. So, these days i dont vare about taste..it would be for the bacteria that i would eat rotten mackerel..my worries are on histamine..if some species are dangerous to eat rotted (raw) while others are ok..guess i'l have to try and see for myself :)

Offline Carne Cruda

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2014, 11:01:24 am »
"Avoid making high meat out of most fish, When many types of fish, such as tuna and mackerel, rot, especially at higher temperatures, they accumulate histamine, which can cause a severe allergic reaction that can result in death if not treated immediately."
To what degrees is "higher temperatures" supposed stand for, in the above context?

Offline Alamadri

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2014, 11:05:13 am »
To which degrees is "higher temperatures" supposed stand for, in the above context?
I dont know,but i guess above 2°/3° C

Offline LePatron7

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2014, 11:37:31 am »
Could you give some examples?

Lots of high chicken, especially early on in the diet. Heck, lots of raw chicken ever. No water. No exercise.

Here's an interview with AV - http://drbass.com/aajonus.html

"My dyslexia and autism, which no one understood at the time, embarrassed and frustrated my parents. My dyslexia was to the extent that the printed page would swirl and I got vertigo. If I tried to read I would vomit. I tried holding the page down with my finger but my parents and teachers would not let me. Because I was borderline autistic and sickly I rarely played with other children.
Near my 10th birthday I developed peritonitis which was a severe intestinal infection. Doctors misdiagnosed it as appendicitis. When they discovered that my appendix was fine, they took it out anyway "in case it causes you problems in the future".

My bones were brittle, and I regularly broke bones in my limbs. I was diagnosed as borderline diabetic at 13. I developed angina pectoris muscle spasms in and around the heart by age 15½. I was diagnosed with juvenile diabetes at that age.
At 19 I developed an ulcer that turned tumorous after medical therapies. After surgery the incision turned tumorous from outer skin to stomach. It was large. Doctors ordered it irradiated. and that caused me to develop Multiple Myeloma (blood and bone cancers). Multiple Myeloma survivors are less than 0.01%. Doctors ordered chemotherapy, which is like napalming the body, destroying mostly healthy cells to try and eliminate a few cancer cells. For every cancer cell that is killed by chemotherapy, 1 billion healthy cells are killed. That is like killing everybody on the planet because you don't like 6 people.
The chemotherapy made me a semi-invalid, and gave me psoriasis and bursitis. I refused to continue chemo after 3 months. I chose to die rather than be completely crippled for the rest of my short life. At that point I had had 7 "incurable" diseases."

At any point you could add "and then my leg was severed, and wild boars brought me food to help me regenerate it," and it would fit in fine.

Sounds made up.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail.

Nocebo Effect - a detrimental effect on health produced by psychological or psychosomatic factors such as negative expectations of treatment or prognosis

Med free since 03/21/2014

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2014, 11:52:12 am »
The Inuit ate a lot of high fish, and I definitely eat it pretty regularly.

Offline Alamadri

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2014, 12:00:49 pm »
Lots of high chicken, especially early on in the diet. Heck, lots of raw chicken ever. No water. No exercise.

Here's an interview with AV - http://drbass.com/aajonus.html

"My dyslexia and autism, which no one understood at the time, embarrassed and frustrated my parents. My dyslexia was to the extent that the printed page would swirl and I got vertigo. If I tried to read I would vomit. I tried holding the page down with my finger but my parents and teachers would not let me. Because I was borderline autistic and sickly I rarely played with other children.
Near my 10th birthday I developed peritonitis which was a severe intestinal infection. Doctors misdiagnosed it as appendicitis. When they discovered that my appendix was fine, they took it out anyway "in case it causes you problems in the future".

My bones were brittle, and I regularly broke bones in my limbs. I was diagnosed as borderline diabetic at 13. I developed angina pectoris muscle spasms in and around the heart by age 15½. I was diagnosed with juvenile diabetes at that age.
At 19 I developed an ulcer that turned tumorous after medical therapies. After surgery the incision turned tumorous from outer skin to stomach. It was large. Doctors ordered it irradiated. and that caused me to develop Multiple Myeloma (blood and bone cancers). Multiple Myeloma survivors are less than 0.01%. Doctors ordered chemotherapy, which is like napalming the body, destroying mostly healthy cells to try and eliminate a few cancer cells. For every cancer cell that is killed by chemotherapy, 1 billion healthy cells are killed. That is like killing everybody on the planet because you don't like 6 people.
The chemotherapy made me a semi-invalid, and gave me psoriasis and bursitis. I refused to continue chemo after 3 months. I chose to die rather than be completely crippled for the rest of my short life. At that point I had had 7 "incurable" diseases."

At any point you could add "and then my leg was severed, and wild boars brought me food to help me regenerate it," and it would fit in fine.

Sounds made up

I must admit that yes,some things he told are questionable..but maybe it was a way of engagin people into his diet..dont know..anyway, what was the problem with the rotten chicken?

Offline Alamadri

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2014, 12:04:36 pm »
The Inuit ate a lot of high fish, and I definitely eat it pretty regularly.
Have you ever tried rotten mackerel or tuna? What kinds of fish do you usually eat fermented?

Offline LePatron7

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2014, 11:58:50 pm »

I must admit that yes,some things he told are questionable..but maybe it was a way of engagin people into his diet..dont know..anyway, what was the problem with the rotten chicken?

Maybe his intentions were good, and he hoped to help people, but that doesn't change that his recommendations were potentially harmful. Search this forum for how many people have joined asking if their food poisoning from chicken was "detox." There have been quite a few.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail.

Nocebo Effect - a detrimental effect on health produced by psychological or psychosomatic factors such as negative expectations of treatment or prognosis

Med free since 03/21/2014

Offline svrn

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2014, 11:25:07 am »
Have you ever tried rotten mackerel or tuna? What kinds of fish do you usually eat fermented?

alamadri, i cant reply to your pm because your pm inbox is full. Please delete your inbox and send me another pm once youve done so and I will answer your questions.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2014, 11:49:36 am »
Have you ever tried rotten mackerel or tuna? What kinds of fish do you usually eat fermented?

Everything.  Usually scallops, sea bass, and tuna, but definitely other fish too.

Offline Alamadri

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2014, 09:49:03 pm »
Everything.  Usually scallops, sea bass, and tuna, but definitely other fish too.


So, do you think this histamine poisoning is not true?
Would you eat rotten oysters to? I eat lots of oysters but,when i buy oysters and let on the frige more than a week, i usually wont eat them, afrid of some kind of contamination..
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 10:07:43 pm by Alamadri »

Offline Alamadri

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2014, 10:04:24 pm »
Maybe his intentions were good, and he hoped to help people, but that doesn't change that his recommendations were potentially harmful. Search this forum for how many people have joined asking if their food poisoning from chicken was "detox." There have been quite a few.
Its hard for me to believe rotten chicken would give one "food poisoning" .

Maybe regular chicken drom supermarkets given hormons,antibiotics, and eating only soy,wheat,and corn..  Ive tryed rotten chicken with no problems.. I pretty much disagree with the his believes on raw dairy..but later he admited some people to be allergic to dairy and those people shouldnt have it at all.. I would love to know his opinion on hereditary fructose intolerance..

Offline jessica

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2014, 11:15:09 pm »
alamadri what is your chicken source?  even "organic" chickens that are sold by producers such as "smart chicken" are really poor quality.  I have eaten whole birds rotten too and they suffice as meats, but are the worst quality and should only be eaten if that's your only source.  they are brined anyway because it brings up their weight and makes it more profitable so I think that changes how they naturally would decompose, perhaps that is a factor is the lack of sickness?  I have also eaten a ton of store bought organic or natural ground turkey and c hicken that I let age without getting sick to my stomach, but its really a low quality source of food and caused inflammation, much worse then grain fed beef ever did.  perhaps the inflammation was worse due to its feed and also letting it age...hhmm.

I have access to chickens raised on sprouted seeds, greens, kelp and chicken eggs and they are a totally different beast/meat all together, even their bone structure is different because they haven't been breed to have super large breasts and to grow so fast like any of the store bought chickens I have ever had(yes including organic free range they may not be GMOs but they have been horribly selectively bred).  the bones are of well raised chickens are really hard to eat, store bought chickens i can eat almost the whole bird besides the breast bone.  the ones I help raise i can usually eat all the joints and neck and crack open the legs and wings for marrow but cannot chew up the leg bones like the poorer quality birds. i have let the legs of well raised chickens dry age but usually just eat the breasts like shashimi and turn the rest into broth and bones,
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 11:25:15 pm by jessica »

Offline Alamadri

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2014, 03:22:32 am »
I agree jessica. Fortunately i have access to good quality chicken.
I live in portugal, i buy chicken from a farmer who gives grens and,also seeds ,sunflower,pumpkin,and the rests of rotten meats with maggots sometimes.. They also have plenty of space,probably they eat other stuff too..  I think thats pretty acceptable.. I would never eat rotten chicken from store "organic" or not.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2014, 11:55:50 am »


So, do you think this histamine poisoning is not true?
Would you eat rotten oysters to? I eat lots of oysters but,when i buy oysters and let on the frige more than a week, i usually wont eat them, afrid of some kind of contamination..

Do NOT eat oysters or clams that aren't fresh-tasting. You can sometimes get away with it, but it's not worth the risk.

As far as histamine goes, I've not noticed any real problems with it.  I get pretty hot in the summers if I'm eating much high fish, so I try to eat mainly just fresh fish in the summer.  That's about the only issue with it that I have.  Different people may be different, you have to try it for yourself.  If you're not noticing bad symptoms from it, I wouldn't worry, though. MANY cultures have eaten heavily fermented fish for thousands of years.

Offline svrn

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Re: Raw rotten Mackerel and Tuna, DANGEROUS?
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2016, 08:07:23 am »
iv made high meat out of fish many times and it was wonderful. Howver with these types of fish that can get histamine reactions, it is best to rot it in the refrigerator.

i got a histamine reaction from fish one time. I got large prominent red splotches all over my skin with headache and nausea and some other symptoms but never felt like i was close to dying but it was unpleasant.
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