Author Topic: Warming up food without cooking it  (Read 6315 times)

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Offline edmon171

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Warming up food without cooking it
« on: April 06, 2014, 05:25:44 am »
Does anyone have any tips or guidelines for this? What temperature would you consider cooked? I would think 108 because that is the temperature that fever causes brain damage. I know AV said something about 105 for denaturing certain enzymes. But since fever is for killing infections I would think anything higher than 99 would kill any beneficial bacteria in the meat. Say I wanted to warm a room temperature steak in a 170 degree oven and bring the inside to 99 degrees. How long would that take? How much of the steak is sterilized and how much has cooked? I would just get a sous-vide but I hesitate because of the plastic. I see claims of food-safe plastics but I am skeptical.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Warming up food without cooking it
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2014, 05:39:04 am »
Bacteria do not get destroyed until at much higher temperatures. The reason for such low temperatures being cited is to prevent enzymes from being destroyed. The temperature cited for that is 104 degrees Fahrenheit/40 degrees Celsius.
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Offline paper_clips43

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Re: Warming up food without cooking it
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2014, 06:13:59 am »
http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/JerkyDrierInstructions.pdf
Thats a link to a homemade jerky maker. If you only want the food warmed you can just keep it in there for a few hours instead of 2-3 days.
I think using an oven might prove difficult to keep desired temperatures.

104 degrees seems to be the number to keep protein at or below to avoid risk of denaturing and creating toxins.

IMO a temp of 99 is not considered a fever. I think above 100.4 is.
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Offline edmon171

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Re: Warming up food without cooking it
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2014, 07:05:52 am »
So would that mean that when I have a fever that goes up to 104.6 (my usual upper limit) that all the enzymes in my body have denatured? What are the implications of this, do I just make new ones?

I thought of using my jerky maker, but I didn't want the meat to dry out. I think I might wrap it in tin-foil and throw that in the jerky maker at 100 and see what happens. I've never actually used my jerky maker to make jerky. I May as well try that too if I am gonna dig it up from the closet. I used to use it to dry "herbs" for making essential oil extracts and 12-hour infused "clarified herb butter"
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Offline Iguana

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Re: Warming up food without cooking it
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2014, 03:00:26 pm »
Fever doesn’t kill bacteria or enzymes:
Usefulness

There are arguments for and against the usefulness of fever, and the issue is controversial.[22][23] There are studies using warm-blooded vertebrates[24] and humans[25] in vivo, with some suggesting that they recover more rapidly from infections or critical illness due to fever. A Finnish study suggested reduced mortality in bacterial infections when fever was present.[26]

In theory, fever can aid in host defense.[22] There are certainly some important immunological reactions that are sped up by temperature, and some pathogens with strict temperature preferences could be hindered.[27]

Research[28] has demonstrated that fever assists the healing process in several important ways:

    Increased mobility of leukocytes
    Enhanced leukocyte phagocytosis
    Endotoxin effects decreased
    Increased proliferation of T cells[29]

40° C (104° F) is given as the approximate maximum temperature at which living processes can safely and faultlessly operate.

It’s not only a matter of destruction of organic molecules (enzymes being only one of several kinds), but above all, of the generation of abnormal chemical compounds such as Maillard’s molecules  / AGEs.

If you put you food in an oven at 77° C (170° F), thousand billions  of innumerable  various Maillard’s molecules  / AGEs will form at the surface, even if the inside remains at 37° C (99° F).
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline edmon171

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Re: Warming up food without cooking it
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2014, 07:33:21 pm »
What about the animal fat specifically? Some people suggest it is still healthy and undamaged up to its oxidization/smoke point. If I made some clarified butter or rendered beef lard have those been damaged somehow at 212, neglecting the milk proteins and cracklins left behind in the process? Are there enzymes for digesting fat?
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Warming up food without cooking it
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2014, 08:01:33 pm »
Cooked fat tastes different from raw fat.
I would go with taste there.

Just give it time to thaw at room temperature.

In a few months you get used to cold food straight from the refrigerator.
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Offline edmon171

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Re: Warming up food without cooking it
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2014, 11:52:41 pm »
I'm actually about half way through a 5 gallon pail of rendered grass-fed beef lard that I bought a few months ago. I guess I was hoping someone would say I haven't been doing myself any harm by eating this with every meal. Maybe I'll start making some pemmican when I get the dehydrator going.

As far as getting used to it I think I'm there taste-wise. But some of the "unique" textures (like spleen) are still hard to swallow. Kidney and liver take a bit of focus. Actually I think raw liver is much better than cooked liver. Muscle meats and heart are a non-issue. I enjoy the fattiest cuts of steak and chewing the fat raw, but I've never gone in for straight suet yet. One thing I found that helps me a lot is just putting down the fork and knife and going in like a savage when nobody is looking. Especially going outside and tearing pieces with my hands and teeth and sharing it with my dogs. Is that weird? I get the feeling I'm not the only one doing that on this forum.
My basic health philosophy:

1. If it is advertized on TV, don't touch it.
2. If it is recommended in the news, do the opposite.
3. If it makes most people afraid, it might be good for you.

Offline Pammie

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Re: Warming up food without cooking it
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2014, 04:14:25 am »
I guess I never really bothered to care what temp my food was at.  I should really keep an eye on this though.

Offline joej627

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Re: Warming up food without cooking it
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2014, 08:39:59 pm »
in the winter especially i warm up fruits and veggies in warm water sometimes.  sounds like you are talking more animal foods here.  I am one who thinks that sometimes heated animal foods are ok albeit as long as they are warmed up properly.  As in no frying, cooking super high temp.  This would more be things like very runny egg whites and yolks, smoked meats, etc.

Offline edmon171

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Re: Warming up food without cooking it
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2014, 02:20:50 am »
I just came across an idea to use glass canning jars in the sous-vide instead of the plastic pouches. Genius. It does take a bit more time, but I'm not in fear of the pathogens so that's ok by me. Though its still a lot of trouble and money to spend just to bring my food to 104 degrees. It will be at room temp again before I'm done eating unless I leave the jar in the bath and just eat straight from there.
My basic health philosophy:

1. If it is advertized on TV, don't touch it.
2. If it is recommended in the news, do the opposite.
3. If it makes most people afraid, it might be good for you.

 

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