Author Topic: Price check on Meat  (Read 14188 times)

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Offline sabertooth

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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2014, 09:37:27 am »
I hope now folks will see I wasn't overly pessimistic in warning in the past that this was coming. Short-term impacts have aggravated it. It has gotten so bad that many cuts of pastured meat and fat are no longer even being offered for sale in my local markets. One market has very little beef or pork any more and is instead selling mostly chickens.

It's another good reason for po' folk like me to try incorporating more Paleo plant foods into the diet.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline eveheart

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2014, 11:31:17 am »
Because of a dry winter and a major processing-plant shut-down in my area, I'm switching from mainly beef to mainly sheep for my next large purchase. My beloved butcher is now my ex-beloved butcher. He's had marrow bones on backorder since the beginning of February. This search for food seems so authentic, though. So un-agricultural.
"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline ys

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2014, 02:38:22 am »
I have not bought anything from Slankers in a long time and just checked their prices.  They are 60-80% higher than few years ago.

Offline van

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2014, 05:12:55 am »
Taxes yes on farm or ranch land, but basic price of land has gone up so high too.   I have been seriously thinking about switching or complimenting my protein with raising my own insects.  If you think about it, a small greenhouse filled with the right plants feeding on exceedingly high mineral based soil, could provide such a healthful balanced food source, with all the organs and bonelike structure of the insect eaten.   If anyone know of anyone doing such a thing (besides GCB and his bees) I'd love to know.  I think the trick would be to find  several different species that could propagate reliably  and live harmoniously with each other.     I asked a female friend of mine whether she'd still be my friend if i switched to insects to food...

   

Offline Inger

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2014, 11:07:25 pm »
Funny.. i must be lucky! I can live way cheaper on a carnivore diet than omnivore  :) That was the reason I switched many years ago, and I have no regrets so far.  :)

I just did a budget one day, because sure if you buy organic salmon and oysters and Roquefort cheese too much it is gonna be expensive! Oysters are 2,30 € / piece, Roquefort is 52,00 € / kg and the salmon 32,00 € / kg

now, I calculated if I do

24 oysters / week
raw pre frozen Pollock (wild caught from North Atlantic) or raw Baltic Herring 500 g to 1 kg / day each day of the week
Mussels a few times / week
Grassfed heart and tongue and fat and liver as much as i want in addition to the above (I get them very cheap from a farm nearby, 1 huge tongue just 10 euro.. the fat cost almost nuthing! Neither does liver. 1 big heart is also only 10 € each)
1 bottle of the best organic raw EVOO I can get (I would not use the whole bottle in one week anyways...)
Organic onions (I eat about 1 every day)
Some organic raw nuts, say 300 g / week

that will make it cost about 150 € / week and that is fine for my budget. I am proud  :)

I can eat the best foods, and a lot of it! And still so cheap   :)  :)  :)

I do not buy salads, I eat wild greens and flowers they are for free BTW  ;)
soon will berry season start and then I will gorge on wild berries too... for free  :)

and I have planted lots of cucumbers in the garden! Peas too... and dill... and carrots.. they are practically for free too  :)
I just need to wait until they are ripe and ready. I love seasonal eating - it is so crazy exciting  :)  :)  :)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 11:14:03 pm by Inger »

Offline Inger

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2014, 11:17:47 pm »
Taxes yes on farm or ranch land, but basic price of land has gone up so high too.   I have been seriously thinking about switching or complimenting my protein with raising my own insects.  If you think about it, a small greenhouse filled with the right plants feeding on exceedingly high mineral based soil, could provide such a healthful balanced food source, with all the organs and bonelike structure of the insect eaten.   If anyone know of anyone doing such a thing (besides GCB and his bees) I'd love to know.  I think the trick would be to find  several different species that could propagate reliably  and live harmoniously with each other.     I asked a female friend of mine whether she'd still be my friend if i switched to insects to food...

   

What did she say, Van?
You need to find the insects high in DHA.........

Maybe you should start an oyster farm..... i am sure one could live on oysters

Offline van

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2014, 12:03:01 am »
This is a  woman who's open to most anything; she said yes.   Oysters are a pretty intensive crop.  Plus I only have a slight appetite for them.   But I like the idea that they filter sea water.   Good point about the Dha in insects,  will take a look on line.  But then I got to wonder if anyone really has asked that question before.  At least there little brains, eyes and nervous system should have itsy bitsy amounts. 

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2014, 06:29:20 am »
My expenditures vary greatly from month to month, and the bulk of my expenses depend upon the best deal I can find on a whole Animal. Some farmers who just want to cull of an extra ram and don't want the trouble of hauling it into market will sell it for cheap around 50 dollars , while others will want over 250 for a fully mature animal.

Right now I am having trouble finding a decent animal so I am scraping for scraps, if I cant Find anything soon I may try and buy a four year old Baby doll Ram for 200 dollars just to tide me over, and for the new experience, from the ad it looked very plump and delicious, though babydolls are so small it wont last very long.

The average cost is about 175 dollars for an animal large enough to last a month . Buying the meat in the store would cost around three times as much, and I would not be able to harvest all the best parts. Also, I have yet to buy any store bought meat that taste as good as what I can get from right the farm.

Rough guess about total Raw Paleo food cost per month

175 whole animal
  65 coconut butter
  80 salad supplies
  75 extra fat and occasional sea food
  25 Spring water

420 total per month
105 per week

Before going paleo I was going broke paying over 700 dollars on organic vegtables and other store bought foods, each month and not receiving any benefit.

 
 
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2014, 07:42:36 am »
Inger, Van and Sabertooth, what is the current price/lb of the cheapest animal meat (flesh, from any source, including fish, any of muscle flesh, ground meat or whole carcass) you buy and what is the meat and where do you get it (I know already that Sabertooth gets it from farms)?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 07:56:01 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Projectile Vomit

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2014, 08:39:24 am »
I'd love to chime in here, but I'm afraid I haven't had to buy meat in quite a long time. As the leader of my local chapter of the Weston A. Price Foundation I know a fair number of hobbyists who raise animals for themselves or friends, usually bulls but sometimes rams or sheep, and get calls to help them slaughter and sometimes cut. When I lend a hand, they usually let me take whatever I want from the carcass and gut pile, which yields a lot of edible tissue and plenty of bones. I also hunt, so there's another source, at least in fall.

I feel sorry for people who have to buy their meat from stores. Based on the farms I've visited, the quality of meat that ends up sold in commercial markets is at best mediocre; farmers aiming to make a profit are forced to cut corners in a variety of ways, often in how they manage their pastures. This leads to lower quality meat, and in my area most farmers have to ship livestock long distances to slaughter so the animals are highly stressed, reducing the quality of the meat even further. And a combination of habit and screwy laws prevents the sale of most organs, which are far more nutrient dense than muscle meat anyway.

Offline van

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2014, 10:06:57 am »
Inger, Van and Sabertooth, what is the current price/lb of the cheapest animal meat (flesh, from any source, including fish, any of muscle flesh, ground meat or whole carcass) you buy and what is the meat and where do you get it (I know already that Sabertooth gets it from farms)?


 I get mine mostly from a local slaughter house.  Top sirloin roasts at 10 a pound, heart and liver at 4, fat at  four and bones at four.   Now that North Star bison are solely on green grass for the last month, I'll order top sirloin, heart and liver from them at about the same prices,  slightly higher for the liver and heart.  We also get lamb for the dogs which I eat, whole carcasses in quarters at somewhere around three a pound.

Offline van

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2014, 10:13:35 am »
should mention I'm eating about 8-12 ounces of meat a day, and I have ducks that live on insects, weeds, grasses, and six day sprouts, plus seaweed.   I irrigate a pasture for them so they have green year round.  when laying I'll eat two yolks a day.  I also eat small amounts of sprout able european grown heirloom pumpkin seeds, about a handful a day.  those are probably about 15 a pound, bought in five lb. bags.  Oysters are about 1.50 to 2.00 a piece.  Tuna when local, like albacore I'll buy but not if it's been frozen on the boat which is the case.   Tuna from the Philipenes at whole foods is like 23 a pound,  I pass by.  When in Hawaii I ate local fresh tuna there at under ten a pound.  I also eat regularly Larch Hansens low temp dried  wakame or arame from Maine.  It's about 30 a pound. 

Offline ys

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2014, 11:01:34 am »
Here is what they say.

Corn feed for conventional stock got expensive because a lot of corn land had been allocated for bio-fuel.  So that drives up prices for grain-fed products.  And grass-fed meat is priced somewhat higher than grain-fed.

Offline Inger

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2014, 02:26:56 pm »
Inger, Van and Sabertooth, what is the current price/lb of the cheapest animal meat (flesh, from any source, including fish, any of muscle flesh, ground meat or whole carcass) you buy and what is the meat and where do you get it (I know already that Sabertooth gets it from farms)?

I drive half an hour to a grass fed Angus farm... and buy directly from there. I barely buy meat, I take the organs. As Eric says, they are way more nutritious and even way cheaper. I get 1 heart for 10 € (13 USD) and they can be huge, maybe 2 kg? Same with tongue, 10 € each. I get fat too, very cheap, maybe 10 € / 3 kg or so. Sometimes i get it for free.... Their liver is also dirt cheap. Organs are not popular here....
Their ground meat is their cheapest meat source, cost 14 € / kg, it is 16 € / kg in the store. But I do not buy that, why, when I have the organs?
I seldom buy ground elk meat (prefrozen) anymore, it is 6 € / lb. I used to buy it a lot but I eat very little land animals anymore.

That was my meat sources.

Seafood - the cheapest is Baltic Herring fresh, and wild Pollock (North Atlantic) prefrozen. Those are both dirt cheap, 4-6 € / kg I use the heads of the herrings as smoothie.
I can get other cheap local fished fish too... for 4 € / kg. I sometimes make them into fish broth.

I also eat seaweeds, I buy from Orkos (France) and they are 100% raw and very delicious. Cost me 6-10 € / 100 grams depending on what kind of seaweed. I use different kinds.

I can get a ram for 80 € in fall - half year old or older. There is a lot of meat and fat and other yummy stuff on it. But they are usually not fully grassfed. Sure if i search i can find such too but I am not to interested in land animals meat anymore - the organs are enuf for me  ;)

Offline Inger

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2014, 02:35:38 pm »
You know.. when I lived in Germany and moved back here I was so scared i will not find any meat and fish sources. Food is way more expensive here than there.... and harder to find grassfed and wild stuff. But, when you search you will find! We just never have to give up... there is always a way! I would never ever compromise on good stuff because of money... I would then rather move.

I live close to the shore and here is lots of fish, just, the Baltic Sea is quite polluted. But I mix it up a bit with fish from the North Atlantic , and I trust my body to be able to get the bad stuff out, I live such a healthy life. I know our body is made to clean out poisons as long as we take good care. I have calculated I get way more good than bad eating the seafood.

When I get whole fresh Norwegian mackerel (I get them only a few times / year) I always buy, but it is expensive, 14 € / kg. But I use everything! Heads and all. So if I would eat say 4 mackerels / day and then some pollock too... and grassfed fat, I would still only have spent 10 € for food that day. I am proud if I can eat for 10 € / day. I could never get under 20 € when I ate raw omnivore (lots of fruit and veggies and nuts)

but yeah... when I do oysters it raises the bill quite a lot!  ;)

Offline Inger

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2014, 02:39:16 pm »
When I worked in Norway last fall for 2 months, I was shocked to see the same wild caught pollock cost only half of what it cost here.... and in Norway you earn way more money than here...... way cool! In Norway it is easy to live dirt cheap eating raw carnivore for sure!
There you can eat he seaweeds too, very clean waters. And oysters and mussels are for free....... if you catch them...

I might move there...lol I just cannot decide, Germany or Norway  ???

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2014, 10:38:57 pm »
Here is what they say.

Corn feed for conventional stock got expensive because a lot of corn land had been allocated for bio-fuel.  So that drives up prices for grain-fed products.  And grass-fed meat is priced somewhat higher than grain-fed.


This seems to be the current modus operandi for the modern meat pricing system. Grass fed, regardless of the cost to produce, will usually cost more because it is a niche market, and the laws of capitalism demand that higher quality goods must cost more. So even though grain fed farmers often have to pay more for feed, chemical wormers, antibiotics, hormone growth stimulants, etc.. because the market price is set lower for grain finished meat they have to fix their prices accordingly.

On the other hand grass fed operations depending on the availability of clean pasture are often forced to supplement with cheap hay, or raise their animals on overgrazed plots in order to stay competitive.

In short modern agriculture which is dominated by big business is a succubus on the heart and soul of the "Clean Food Advocate". Everyone who understands this should do their part to support small local farms that practice good animal husbandry, permicultural methods, pasture rotation, without the use of all the modern industrial abominational garbage that is being interjected into our food supply. 
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2014, 11:01:19 pm »

I can eat the best foods, and a lot of it! And still so cheap   :)  :)  :)

I do not buy salads, I eat wild greens and flowers they are for free BTW  ;)
soon will berry season start and then I will gorge on wild berries too... for free  :)

and I have planted lots of cucumbers in the garden! Peas too... and dill... and carrots.. they are practically for free too  :)
I just need to wait until they are ripe and ready. I love seasonal eating - it is so crazy exciting  :)  :)  :)


Inger ,

I am currently buying salad greens and vegetables from the markets, some of it is local, some is from far away sources, and its all expensive. I was wondering about what kind of wild greens and flowers that you find appealing?

I have a nice garden with raised beds, fertilized with compost, animal guts and manure, I already have tomato plants, greens, basil, cilantro, squash, okra, green onions, Chamomile.... there is a mulberry tree and some raspberry bushes too.

There are still two 6x4 beds that have not been planted, so I am looking for advice on what best to grow that would complement a mostly carnivorous diet?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 11:06:45 pm by sabertooth »
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Offline Projectile Vomit

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2014, 11:55:03 pm »
The cost of production for 100% grass fed meat is much higher than it is for grain fed meat. There's a lot more human labor involved in grass fed operations, and hay is expensive whether you make it on your own land, hire it custom or buy it in. I'd guess that 100% grass fed margins are slimmer than those of grain fed or grain finished operations. The folks I know who grass farm do it because of their land ethics, not because they think they can do better financially.

Offline jessica

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2014, 12:28:09 am »
Yeh it's the same situation here with land ethics and lower profit margin, most people come from money or have had well paying jobs in the past that have allowed hem to take up farming, a lot of farmers do it to maintain and utilize their land and feed their family and friends.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2014, 01:14:50 am »
The cost of production for 100% grass fed meat is much higher than it is for grain fed meat. There's a lot more human labor involved in grass fed operations, and hay is expensive whether you make it on your own land, hire it custom or buy it in. I'd guess that 100% grass fed margins are slimmer than those of grain fed or grain finished operations. The folks I know who grass farm do it because of their land ethics, not because they think they can do better financially.
Hmm, I have read one or two  reports from grassfed meat farmers who said they actually had higher profit-margins in the end. One of the reasons cited was that animals raised on grass were far healthier so needed much fewer medical costs.
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2014, 02:30:11 am »
The cost of production for 100% grass fed meat is much higher than it is for grain fed meat. There's a lot more human labor involved in grass fed operations, and hay is expensive whether you make it on your own land, hire it custom or buy it in. I'd guess that 100% grass fed margins are slimmer than those of grain fed or grain finished operations. The folks I know who grass farm do it because of their land ethics, not because they think they can do better financially.

I worked for a grass fed operation , the owners were making big bucks, and expanding rather quickly. When they were only butchering 12 cow a week it seems the meat was a lot better quality, then they doubled production by the time I began to work there, and the quality was terrible. The taste was bad, the organs of many of the animals were condemned.

I know its generalizing, but I fear that many large scale grassfed operations are forced to sacrifice quality to keep up production. This system of supply and demand capitalism is antithetical to the Paleo philosophy.

What about small animal operations, through history even the poorest people could raise sheep and goats on pasture without having to buy hay or other animal feed, its this damn cow centered economy which has been mostly to blame for the adulteration of meat production.






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Offline van

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2014, 03:44:03 am »
Here in Northern ca.  it's all about how lush the grass is and how many cows is the land supporting.  We've had little rains this year so it should be interesting how the cows/ranchers fair towards the end of the dry season (till the end of Nov).    Cows closer to the coast eat greener healthier grass typically than inland cows.  Fortunately I live on the coast as does the slaughterhouse I buy from. 

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Price check on Meat
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2014, 08:19:28 am »
I found this--another one of our own predicted future rising meat prices and deserves some credit for that. Can you guess who?
Quote
"Once all developing/undeveloped countries all want meat, most of us are going to be in trouble, facing vast rises in food-prices."


More news reports supporting what Sabertooth posted (that meat prices are rising in the USA):
Quote
Beef, pork prices continue to climb
By Susan Hogan
Published: June 4, 2014, 5:29 pmUpdated: June 4, 2014, 5:56 pm
http://wpri.com/2014/06/04/beef-pork-prices-continue-to-climb/

(WPRI) – The price of meat has been rising for the past few months and is expected to go even higher.

The drought in several states has led farmers to raise fewer animals, and that coupled with a higher worldwide demand for meat, is pushing up prices.
Interestingly, this one says the price rise is not at all due to the Western USA droughts:
Quote
Meat Prices Are Skyrocketing: Why?
And the drought is not to blame.
TANYA BASUMAY 30 2014, 3:45 PM ET
Reuters
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/meat-prices-are-skyrocketing/371383/#comments

The drought will likely raise meat prices down the road, but that hasn't happened yet: Feed and meat prices are set far in advance in the futures market. Last year was a good year weather-wise, so this year's prices remain unaffected. As for the E. coli scare: You'd think that the meat industry would be hard-pressed to sell beef to shoppers, bringing prices down. But consumers seem to be shrugging it off, and demand hasn't fallen.

So what is causing the spike in meat prices? The answer is consumers.

“Consumers are feeling better about themselves and their income situation and willing to pay up for good meat,” says Bob Young, chief economist at the American Farm Bureau Federation. But, he says, there aren’t enough fancy cuts of meat to satisfy all the people who want them, which means grocery stores can hike up prices.

“I think that given the stronger demand, folks are going to find not quite the cut they want for the price they want,” Young said. “They might have to downmarket a bit.”


The high prices don't seem to be just a hiccup in the market, warns Young: Meat consumers should expect this price jump to be the norm for potentially three years.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

 

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