Author Topic: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-  (Read 12526 times)

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Offline 24isours

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I am very careful when it comes to my Vitamin A intake as I have experienced some problems with too much Retinol in my diet. For a long time I went by the USDA's 'Raw Beef Liver' Vitamin A content which is completely INACCURATE. Too much Vitamin A does indeed cause problems and I'm sure most of you are aware of this.

If we look below at the Raw Beef Liver Analaysis, it tells us there is
4732 IU of Vitamin A per 28 of grams liver or 95% of our daily value.
([url]http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3468/2]http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3468/2]([url]http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3468/2)[/url]

Now when we look at the same serving size of 'Beef Liver, Cooked, Braised' it gives us a value of
8881 IU of Vitamin A per 28 grams of liver or 178% of our daily value!
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3469/2

So, depending on our Vitamin A stores to begin with this can be really dangerous for some of us; especially those who eat liver every day. When I first started eating liver every day I was eating almost 15,000 IU of Vitamin A. After a while I started getting a lot of headaches, nausea, weakness and some pain in my joints. When I lowered my intake these problems went away in a few days. I now eat no more than 12g of Raw Liver per day (a little less than 4,000 IU).

Adequate intake of Vitamin A
----------------------
3,500 IU For Adult Females
4,500 IU For Adult Males


Some symptoms of too much Vitamin A:
----------------------
Birth defects (> 8,000 IU / day) osteoporosis, hairloss, bone pain, elevated blood sugar, liver damage,headaches, dizziness, double vision, bleeding gums,seizures, confusion, dry / peeling skin, hydrocephaly,dry cough, asthma, liver damage (> 25,000 IU / day).
http://www.acu-cell.com/acn2.html#adk
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 09:15:10 pm by 24isours »
3 Years on a Strictly Raw Ketogenic Carnivorous Diet.
*Currently still on a Ketogenic diet but have now incorporated raw vegetables.

Offline Eric

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2013, 11:28:01 pm »
Thanks for sharing. Are you certain that it was the liver that caused your symptoms? Did anything else about your diet change? I eat a lot of liver, and have never experienced the symptoms you note. I think there are a lot of other pathways involved in Vit A use that are involved in this issue, so if those are damaged or inoperable in you then you might have other issues to deal with that contribute to your problems.

With respect to the amount of VitA in liver, there's a huge amount of variability for all foods with respect to their nutrient densities. Some liver will have lower VitA, others will have much higher.
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Offline eveheart

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2013, 11:32:34 pm »
I can't give a quantitative response, only a general one: remember that vitamins A and D have a relationship, and that vitamin K figures into the mix. A person eating liver, getting too little sunlight, and avoiding vitamin K-containing foods (like grass-fed animal meat) will easily show vitamin A toxicity. In a balanced RPD diet, this is not so much of a problem. The USDA allows studies that are questionable in light of RPD standards.

I eat a serving of excellent-quality liver every day or three. It has not been a problem.
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Online TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2013, 11:50:59 pm »
I am dubious re such claims. I used to overeat raw liver all the time and all that happened was that I got constant diarrhea as my body just did not want the extra nutrients from the livers.
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Offline 24isours

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2013, 12:32:24 am »
Thanks for sharing. Are you certain that it was the liver that caused your symptoms? Did anything else about your diet change? I eat a lot of liver, and have never experienced the symptoms you note. I think there are a lot of other pathways involved in Vit A use that are involved in this issue, so if those are damaged or inoperable in you then you might have other issues to deal with that contribute to your problems.

With respect to the amount of VitA in liver, there's a huge amount of variability for all foods with respect to their nutrient densities. Some liver will have lower VitA, others will have much higher.

When I reduced the amount of liver I was eating I started to feel much better. That was the only dietary change I had made at that time.
Perhaps damaged pathways or perhaps optimally functioning pathways?

I've read that toxicity in the liver can occur at intakes as low as 15,000 IU per day as well as possible negative effects on bone health above 4 or 5,000 IU's (if I remember correctly).

How much liver are/were you all eating per day/week?


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*Currently still on a Ketogenic diet but have now incorporated raw vegetables.

Offline mango

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2013, 03:27:19 am »
i felt terrible about a week or so after consuming ~20g of grassfed beef liver per day. had many of the same symptoms you described.

it's surprising to me the quantities of organ meat many people on this forum consume regularly without issue.. personally i find no need to include any in my diet and feel much better this way.

Offline eveheart

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2013, 03:43:17 am »
How much liver are/were you all eating per day/week?

I eat about a pound of lamb liver per week.
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Offline paper_clips43

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2013, 03:48:22 am »
I think it might depend on how long you have been raw. I only ate organs once a month for the first 7 months of raw. Now I eat them every day. Although I too find that liver is better tolerated at very low doses and not every day. Vitamin A is a fat soluble vitamin therefore stores in your fat and if I am correct your body can pull it out as needed. So this means if we consume liver we are getting the Vitamin A for a couple days afterwards. So we would be fine only consuming it every couple days and none would go to waste like Tyler mentioned...
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Online TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2013, 05:08:05 am »
I think it might depend on how long you have been raw. I only ate organs once a month for the first 7 months of raw. Now I eat them every day. Although I too find that liver is better tolerated at very low doses and not every day. Vitamin A is a fat soluble vitamin therefore stores in your fat and if I am correct your body can pull it out as needed. So this means if we consume liver we are getting the Vitamin A for a couple days afterwards. So we would be fine only consuming it every couple days and none would go to waste like Tyler mentioned...
Err,  the intake I mentioned ingesting at the time was c. half a kilo of raw liver a day, max a kilo a day,  plus mineral water  for every alternate week, and it still did not harm me.
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Offline Dr. D

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2013, 05:36:55 am »
I've wondered why I had consumed almost 1/2 pound of liver daily for a month and didn't get any signs of vitaminosis A. I felt great. I wanted to be careful though so I've since cut back. Plus I hit a point where I felt it was no longer necessary. Maybe an instinct of stop. Either way, I almost wonder if there is a difference for some people or perhaps with raw vitamin A? Nutritionists claim that vitamin A found in the form of animal foods (retinol) cannot be digested in excess but the vitamin A in plant foods can be. I think I've also read that plant food vitamin A is inefficient and needs to be converted to something else before being used. I think that was vitamin A. Maybe it was omega -3's. Maybe it's both. I can't remember.
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If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2013, 06:32:29 am »
The only issue I could see is quality.

Are you sure you are getting pure pasture raised liver, along with a balanced diet of paleo quality foods?
What else are you eating?
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Offline 24isours

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2013, 08:50:54 am »
It seemed to take quite some time to start feeling the negative effects. I've been eating liver every day now for 2 years. I'd say after close to a year of doing this (@ an intake around 15,000 IU per day) the symptoms started. Obviously Vitamin A is fat soluble and builds up in the body; perhaps I was severely deficient and the body had major repairs to make before storing 'unused' retinol and now the stores are full?
If our bodies don't store excess retinol and just expel it, why has there been cases of toxicity?

I think you are talking about the conversion of beta carotene to true Vitamin A which isn't converted well at all in humans.

I'm pure carnivore and only eat ground beef (mixed with heart and liver) and beef fat.
Everything I eat is indeed 100% grass fed and quality shouldn't be an issue.
3 Years on a Strictly Raw Ketogenic Carnivorous Diet.
*Currently still on a Ketogenic diet but have now incorporated raw vegetables.

Offline 24isours

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2013, 08:52:53 am »
I eat about a pound of lamb liver per week.

Have you been eating a lb of lamb liver per week consistently for a long period of time ?
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Offline paper_clips43

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2013, 09:32:05 am »
Maybe being low carb has something to do with it...
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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2013, 09:58:07 am »
Quote
How much liver are/were you all eating per day/week?

Typically about a pound per week, not counting the 'high' liver that's been aging in my refrigerator for 6+ months that I eat a few cubes of each day. In addition to liver, I eat other organ meats during the typical week. And as I think about it, I eat more organs each week than muscle meats, by mass.
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2013, 10:51:08 am »
What percentage of fat intake is you diet?

It could be a Zero carb issue, especially if you are not getting enough fat, and getting to much protein

I eat a lot of different kinds of fats. The belly trimmings, intestinal fats, suet, bone marrow, brains, along with all the organ meats and blood.
When eating ZC I personally think its especially important to eat the entire animal, so that you get all the vitamins and minerals in there proper portions.
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Offline 24isours

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2013, 11:21:46 am »
What percentage of fat intake is you diet?

It could be a Zero carb issue, especially if you are not getting enough fat, and getting to much protein

I eat a lot of different kinds of fats. The belly trimmings, intestinal fats, suet, bone marrow, brains, along with all the organ meats and blood.
When eating ZC I personally think its especially important to eat the entire animal, so that you get all the vitamins and minerals in there proper portions.

250-270g of fat per day
70g protein
The only organ meat I get in is 12.5 g of heart and 12.5 g liver mixed in my meat per day.
I make sure to soak up all the blood with the meat.
I keep my protein intake low enough to stay completely fat adapted.
I also supplement with 4-5 teaspoons of sea salt per day..
I've been doing this for a while and have not had any problems.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 11:31:35 am by 24isours »
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*Currently still on a Ketogenic diet but have now incorporated raw vegetables.

Offline Inger

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2013, 11:59:27 am »
It might be the copper in the liver..... if you have got too much of it in your body - that reacts if you are in a high EMF environment. Unbalanced amounts of transition metals in our body becomes dangerous when we are exposed to high EMF. In cities today we are practically getting "microwaved" with wifi's and cellphones etc. You know what happens if you put copper in a microwave?

I would say good idea to stay away from liver for a while, your body knows what it needs

A high fat diet like you do it is the best diet to protect our body from the damage EMF does to our bodies, BTW.  :)

Offline Inger

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2013, 05:14:28 pm »
According to the database 100 grams of beef liver has 714 % daily value of Copper, when the same amount of lambs liver has only 354 % DV.

100 grams of Beef liver has 634 % DV vit. A when 100 grams lambs liver has 499 %. I guess lambs liver might the better choice for some of us at least?

I do wonder why lambs liver has a much higher inflammatory response (highly inflammatory when beef liver is only mildly inflammatory) according to the same nutrient database.. I do not understand... maybe it is because it is cooked?

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2013, 09:02:26 pm »
According to the database 100 grams of beef liver has 714 % daily value of Copper, when the same amount of lambs liver has only 354 % DV.

100 grams of Beef liver has 634 % DV vit. A when 100 grams lambs liver has 499 %. I guess lambs liver might the better choice for some of us at least?

I do wonder why lambs liver has a much higher inflammatory response (highly inflammatory when beef liver is only mildly inflammatory) according to the same nutrient database.. I do not understand... maybe it is because it is cooked?
Maybe or maybe it was more grainfed than the beef was?
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Offline aLptHW4k4y

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2013, 10:39:53 pm »
I am very careful when it comes to my Vitamin A intake as I have experienced some problems with too much Retinol in my diet. For a long time I went by the USDA's 'Raw Beef Liver' Vitamin A content which is completely INACCURATE. Too much Vitamin A does indeed cause problems and I'm sure most of you are aware of this.

If we look below at the Raw Beef Liver Analaysis, it tells us there is
4732 IU of Vitamin A per 28 of grams liver or 95% of our daily value.
([url=http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3468/2]http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3468/2]([url]http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3468/2]http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3468/2]http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3468/2]([url]http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3468/2)[/url]

Now when we look at the same serving size of 'Beef Liver, Cooked, Braised' it gives us a value of
8881 IU of Vitamin A per 28 grams of liver or 178% of our daily value!
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3469/2

My guess is that the cooked liver has lost a lot of water, hence more concentrated than raw and why you see more vitamin A per the same weight.

Offline RogueFarmer

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2013, 03:14:23 am »
Sheep  have less need for copper and in fact it can be very poisonous to them so it makes sense that they have less copper.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 03:32:12 am by TylerDurden »

Offline 24isours

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2013, 10:19:26 pm »
Thank you for the great info, Inger! I'm going to experiment and try purchasing some lamb liver instead of beef liver in the future. Btw, the symptoms of high copper and high levels of Vitamin A are very similar. Maybe it is the copper after all. Also, Vitamin C is known to help flush out excess copper and whilst being pure carnivore (eating mostly muscle meat) I don't seem to get much of it. Maybe this is why some on this forum do better eating larger amounts of liver.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 10:50:14 pm by 24isours »
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Offline Inger

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2013, 07:01:40 pm »
I got some weird increased heart beats... I wonder if I ate too much fat? I truly gorged on it.... because I thought it was so delicious, and I digest it just perfectly well....
I think I might have gotten a too deep ketosis? that is what can happen too I found out.. and increased heart beat is one symptom. Have you ever experienced this 24isours?


Offline 24isours

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Re: Raw Beef Liver & the USDA National Nutrient Database -BE CAREFUL-
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2013, 11:33:02 pm »
I got some weird increased heart beats... I wonder if I ate too much fat? I truly gorged on it.... because I thought it was so delicious, and I digest it just perfectly well....
I think I might have gotten a too deep ketosis? that is what can happen too I found out.. and increased heart beat is one symptom. Have you ever experienced this 24isours?

It could very well be your body adapting. I noticed when first adapting I had some palpitations that went away rather quickly. Did you increase your salt intake recently? Maybe you've increased it too much and are dehydrating yourself? Dehydration can cause palpitations/racing heart. It could be also be higher blood pressure (can cause faster heartbeats) due to an increase in salt as well.
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*Currently still on a Ketogenic diet but have now incorporated raw vegetables.