Author Topic: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)  (Read 17306 times)

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Offline sabertooth

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Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« on: January 29, 2016, 11:01:53 am »
While the US government is literally waging  war against the producers of Free Range Beef, and through the FDA/USDA has subverted overall Food Liberty; Russia is importing cowboys, rejecting GMOs, embracing local organic, and plans to be food independent by 2020

http://rbth.com/articles/2011/04/25/us_cowboys_join_russian_ranch_with_true_grit_12798.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCAmrBOkAFs
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 11:11:11 am by sabertooth »
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Offline jessica

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2016, 12:48:23 am »
It doesnt talk much about their pasture management practices in the article, does the video go more in depth?  Perhaps their is wildlife/undulates more suited to this environment and importing cattle may have been a bad move for the top soil with out proper management?  Someone should send Putin a copy of Restoration Agriculture by Mark Shepard and the folks at New Forest Farm....http://agriculturalinsights.com/multi-species-grazing-permaculture-system-peter-allen/ 

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2016, 02:59:59 am »
Not sure of all the details, apparently there is a huge food awakening in Russia and they are currently dedicated to ecologically sound food production and rejection of the horrible practices of western Big Agra. Information is limited on the details, but the establishment of great numbers of pasture raised cattle is currently underway...I am simply raising awareness of what I see as a positive trend....They are claiming that in Russia people are now given access to Paleo Quality Meat, for the same cost as the absolutely cheapest Monsanto fed beef in the west....Time will tell if this trend will continue and lead to Russia becoming the leader of a food quality reformation.

Putin Knows exactly whats going on regarding the catastrophe of western food production...and they are working on becoming food independent, while at the same time, in the US we are going in the opposite direction.....

Years ago Putin was giving interviews explaining the ban on US chicken was due to " Quality issues"...and recently RT exposed the truth regarding the US poultry industry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boUs1FUyXJo
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Offline jessica

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2016, 03:43:42 am »
I just wonder if they have looked into their own personal natural history, because there are still many more indigenous Russians, and i do believe they had a more meatless diet, thriving(although not in the way we view it through our civilized eyes) eating fish, nuts(including pine nuts), mushrooms, berries, greens, fruits(apples and pears originated in the forests in that region) etcetc because this is what that landscape more naturally, healthfully and sustainable provided.  If there is that much loamy topsoil in the absence of cows they will have a hard time trying to mass produce food while keeping that topsoil intact because it is still an intense, undiversified and also alien process.  But yes their culture that is tied to nature is still much more intact than us transplants to the West and has a much better understanding that for a country to thrive you need healthful, intelligent, compassionate citizens. 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 04:09:48 am by jessica »

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2016, 03:52:46 am »
I read recently that investing in Russian land is a huge phenomenon nowadays, something like 13 us dollars per acre etc. Not surprising given that the old Soviet Union had a 1/6th of the Earth's land surface.


No surprise that Russia wants food-independence given the atrocious sanctions the US laid on it. It is about time that the US and Israel were similiarly sanctioned by the rest of the world for their evil actions in the Middle-East.
One thing we all have to bear in mind:- every country or region has different freedoms and  excesses. In Russia, one dare not criticise the KGB or any other Putin ally, but one cannot be extradited to the US, one has greater freedom  as regards tax-shelters from the West etc.
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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2016, 08:57:38 am »
I have distant relatives in Russia and no one over there gives a shit about food origins.  With the purchasing power plummeting like a rock most Russians are going for the cheapest selections.  Bread, pasta, and potatoes is a staple and eaten daily.  Beef is expensive.  Most Russians prefer pork and chicken most likely raised in filthy industrial farms.

They have some farm land that they lease out.  I asked why don't then farm it themselves.  They said the profit is so low it does not make sense to spend time farming.  And living in the country side is considered inferior.  Majority prefer apartment living in big cities.  As far a I know everyone is heavily using industrial fertilizers and pesticides.  Uralkali is one of the largest fertilizer manufacturer.

It is still possible to find organic produce with enough effort but most local stores and supermarkets are just like in the US.  Who knows how the produce was grown.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2016, 09:01:20 am »
Judging from Yuri's past reports in the Ukraine, I fear that Ys's comments are far closer to reality as regards Eastern Europe.
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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2016, 09:29:48 am »
Quote
Not surprising given that the old Soviet Union had a 1/6th of the Earth's land surface.

70% of that 1/6th land is tundra and snow forest.  Relatively very few good farming/pasture lands.
Ukraine, on the other hand, has one of the best farming lands.

Few local people want to grow successful business in Russia if they are not friends with men in power.  If someone somehow manages to get big and successful they are forced to sell business to government mafia.  VK.com is a good example.

It was in the news recently a report about Putin's corruption.  In a civilized world we call it corruption.  But in Russia it is not.  Nepotism and cronyism is considered normal just like in typical 3rd world country.

My dad's friend ran for a mayor for the only purpose of helping his business.

In such toxic business environment I'd be very cautious about news like that.

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2016, 09:32:52 am »
I'm keeping in touch with Yuri time to time.  He does manage to find quality meats and raw milk.  But it is a huge hassle that most people choose not to be bothered with.

Offline jessica

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2016, 09:34:26 am »
maybe i am just romanticizing because i been reading them books about beautiful russian women with their souls intact and the people who actually live to tend their gardens......ah well... the world needs dreamers.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 10:02:38 am by jessica »

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2016, 12:38:12 pm »
Ys is entitled to his cynicism, If you look for fault in anything you will find it........ but as a dreamer I prefer romanticism, and will boldly chose to always look on the light side of life!

Every negative statement Ys has directed toward Russia, can be said of certain areas of the United States, there will always be elements of the lowest common denominator within a nation, regardless of what kind of progress is made.

He does manage to find quality meats and raw milk.

This is what I am primarily interested in...can someone if well motivated and industrious gain access to the kind of nutritional freedoms which I would find consistent with the paleo principles? All that other information is irreverent geopolitical tripe! My father in law spent a couple of years in the old soviet union country Yugoslavia, and he gave me the impression of a more rural providential atmosphere where people where self sufficient. He told me stories about killing chickens every day and how he saw men in their 80s walking down the street eating some kind of treat made with skewered pork fat( he called it pork fat on a stick). He told me about a farm dog that was over 20 years old and lived entirely on raw chicken bones. 

Point being, I can imagine that even if a majority of people in Russia are no different than the millions of people in America who dont give a damn about these issues, there still are millions of people who do care, and they have access to rural farmers who can produce extremely high quality food, for a fraction of the cost of USDA Organic labeled food in the US.

Regardless of what people claim to know of Putins " Corruption" say what you will, the man has been able to keep Monsanto Out! He is also a promoter of organic foods and overall food independence. In general the Russian government encourages people to produce their own food.

On the other hand our president appoints the former lords of Monsanto to the Head of our FDA, and rubber stamps any pro big Agra bill that makes it to his desk. We have an elite who feed their own children organic while supporting policy which makes it all but impossible for lower income families to do the same!
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2016, 08:06:26 pm »
I hope Russia actually does this. While I think vat-grown meat is the future, we need at least a few powerful countries who refuse to eat it until it's perfected, for several good reasons.

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2016, 11:20:12 am »
Quote
there still are millions of people who do care, and they have access to rural farmers who can produce extremely high quality food, for a fraction of the cost of USDA Organic labeled food in the US.

Quote
In general the Russian government encourages people to produce their own food.

It amazes me you are making such bold claims while knowing almost nothing about the country.  There is really no point discussing this further.  Go live there for 6 months then we'll talk.

Offline Brad462

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2016, 12:02:10 pm »
It amazes me you are making such bold claims while knowing almost nothing about the country.  There is really no point discussing this further.  Go live there for 6 months then we'll talk.

You seem like a big Ronald Reagan fan or something.  The cold war is over my friend...Why do you hold such an obvious bias against Russia?
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2016, 12:35:31 pm »
Id love to live there for 6 months, to learn for myself more about the awakening which is going on over there, if only there is away 8)....Its a huge place and though I have never been their I have an affinity to the Russian soul, and am fairly convinced that I could find a place there where I could be quite comfortable among the rural folk....

This is an open discussion and I welcome all views...BUT if you are going to disagree with the basic premise of this thread, which is how Russia is emerging as a world leader in Organic and unadulterated foods, then please present some evidence that isn't just rehashed propaganda from the cold war era. The people of Russia have been victims of Tyrannic forces for generations, and experienced suffering beyond the capacity for most to even fathom, they deserve some compassion.

In the mean time I will also be using this thread to present some of the hard core truth warriors that are censored in the American media, and have had to defect to RT to be able to speak out about the issues they are most passionate about. There is an opertunity to Tear Down these walls of media driven ideological prejudice which have long separated the peoples of the old soviet Union from the west.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 01:11:24 pm by sabertooth »
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2016, 01:04:03 pm »
maybe i am just romanticizing because i been reading them books about beautiful russian women with their souls intact and the people who actually live to tend their gardens......ah well... the world needs dreamers.

This woman from Russia is remarkable. Her and the other local people featured are examples of the kind of Russian spirit that does not get noticed in the mainstream media
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt2AYafET68
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Offline JeuneKoq

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2016, 12:34:36 am »
Saber, don't leave one illusion for the other...


First of all, don't believe everything the Moscow gov says. Hell, don't believe anything they say! ex-KGB officer President Putin* is a methodical liar, who maintains a personality cult for himself, notably with obvious lies about his accomplishments. Last time I checked, Putin became higher ranked in taekwondo than Chuck Norris, despite never taking part in the art. Now that's a badass!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-putin-is-awarded-grandmaster-rank-in-taekwondo-and-given-black-belt-despite-not-practising-8938967.html

About the use of pesticides and other agro-chemicals in Russia: certainly not decreasing.

http://www.euromonitor.com/pesticides-and-other-agro-chemical-products-in-russia-isic-2421/report

"Pesticides and other agro-chemical products market in Russia grows 44% in 2013 due to increase in household demand and record harvest in agriculture industry. Russian grain harvest grows 21% in 2013 due to humid spring, increasing demand for pesticides and other agrochemicals in Russia. In 2014 Russian Government imposes ban on food imports from EU and US as sanctions sparked, raising incentives for domestic farmers to increase output. Production of anti-sprouting and plant-growth regulators rises by amazing 742% in 2014 due to launch of new production capacity and strong domestic demand. Turnover expected to continue sharp growth CAGR of 19% over 2013-2019 as producers continue to increase production capacity to catch up with Russian market demand. "

Now how's that for organic food promotion?

Moral of the story: It's not because you realized (and only care to see) how shit America is, that its historical rival is any better. Read some more, and not propaganda websites only(from both sides, of course), and keep an open mind, even to the uncomfortable truth.


*in French "putin" = whore  ;D
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 12:56:51 am by JeuneKoq »

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2016, 07:26:06 am »
No Need to patronize..I am not being naive....I am clearly aware that there is more than enough illusion to go around....

The article on agricultural chemicals does not say anything very specific.... Pesticides and chemicals can mean anything, I would like to know exactly what they are using, compared to the round up ready GMO of the US?

Of course they are still using conventional methods, my main point is that there is a movement within the millennials of Russia to support organic foods and the awakening....Yes Much of Russia is still under certain kinds of tyranny, but I would rather light a candle than curse the darkness...

There is still much secrecy regarding the biological sciences of Russia...it is apparent for anyone with some basic sense to see that they have conducted their own lab analysis on the imported foods, and even before all these embargos they have concluded that they want to keep out GMOs at all cost.

Putin for all his faults actually does care about these issues in ways that the political puppets in the west do not. He is the only world leader who is taking a stand against GMO, Eugenics, Climate change, endless war..........Russia intelligence is following very closely the alternative media in America, they listen Alex Jones and are actively engage in the Information war. He knows about the use of fluoride in the water and chemicals in the food and is aware of what it is doing to people. Putin knows that the Climate change farce is simply a ploy of an agenda perpetrated by plutocrats to lord over and tax the worlds energy supply.

I was never claiming Putin is the paragon of righteousness, and so what if he is named after a french whore, there have been plenty of respectable whores in the world......anyway as someone who is intelligent and has vast access to all the dirty secrets of all the other dirty whores in the NWO , he can be of use to the truth movement. 
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 10:32:59 am by sabertooth »
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Offline JeuneKoq

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2016, 07:50:52 am »
I apologize, it does sound patronizing when I read it now. I meant it in a more joking way.

I meant the word "putin" means whore in french. That's why we call him "Poutine" instead, to avoid confusion ;)

Maybe they're making all these claims about organic food promotion and getting rid of fluoride etc in order to attract people like you...
I mean, I would not trust the words of such a person. Very clever, yes, but truth speaker?

The article on agricultural chemicals does not say anything very specific.... Pesticides and chemicals can mean anything, I would like to know exactly what they are using, compared to the round up ready GMO of the US?
Well, it was just a very brief summary of a 29 pages report that costs 550€ to read in its whole... I honestly haven't looked that much into the matter. I'm personally not really interested in moving to such a country.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2016, 08:01:34 am »


I meant the word "putin" means whore in french. That's why we call him "Poutine" instead, to avoid confusion ;)

Ah yes, I recently read a whole Daily Mail article once about how the French media deliberately avoided confusing the Russian surname "Putin" with that old French word for "whore", "putain"!   ??? :P -[ l) :o ;D
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Offline Brad462

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2016, 08:43:36 am »
I apologize, it does sound patronizing when I read it now. I meant it in a more joking way.

I meant the word "putin" means whore in french. That's why we call him "Poutine" instead, to avoid confusion ;)

Maybe they're making all these claims about organic food promotion and getting rid of fluoride etc in order to attract people like you...
I mean, I would not trust the words of such a person. Very clever, yes, but truth speaker?

How many truth speakers do you have in France?  Just curious what your view is on France's lax immigration policy.  Seems to me all of Europe is busy committing collective suicide with its immigration policies at the moment. 

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2016, 11:02:15 am »
Apology accepted....


Maybe they're making all these claims about organic food promotion and getting rid of fluoride etc in order to attract people like you...
I mean, I would not trust the words of such a person. Very clever, yes, but truth speaker?


I take truth were I can find it, and on this side of the Atlantic there is nobody in positions of authority who is standing up on these issues like Putin....and none of the corporately run media networks, can hold a candle to what RT is doing for the truth movement. If the Russians are asking for intellectual and moral support against the likes of Monsanto, the endless wars, the global trade deal power grabs...etc, from the alternative minds of the west, then I say what other choice is there?

There are popular movements within Russia independent of central authority and the people are rejecting tGMO and the NWO it rides on......and as a true leader, Putin is speaking on behalf of the will and well being of the people of Russia in a way we haven't seen in America Since JFK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCOeY726kuo
6 minuets in Keiser interviews a restaurant owner who speaks about the local foods movement in Russia.
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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2016, 01:45:59 pm »
Quote
Russia is emerging as a world leader in Organic and unadulterated foods, then please present some evidence that isn't just rehashed propaganda from the cold war era.

This is totally untrue and I have plenty of evidence.

Russian economy is in the free fall.  No country can be a leader in anything in situation like that.  For most Russians primary goal is to get enough food, quality is secondary.

Evidence 1:
My distant relatives.  They live in the big city and buy produce at the grocery store.  Not even once they questioned where produce is coming from.  They just don't care.  I asked don't you want to go to the country side and get home grown meats and plant food?  Their response was store bought food tastes as good to them why bother with something else.  And everyone they know shops at the same store.

Evidence 2:
Most people live paycheck to paycheck and not only quality is not even secondary, it is not even a consideration.  The question is how many times a month can I afford to buy any meat and any cheese.  Elderly are especially affected.  While at the train station I observed interesting moment.  There were 2 old men sitting next to me waiting for their train.  The wait was about 3-4 hours.  So we went to the on-site cafe to get something to eat.  I got liver, potatoes, and some salad for about $6.  Those two got instant noodles for 60 cents.

Evidence 3:
This time we stayed in the small town and my dad's friend invited us for BBQ.  Early afternoon all of us went to look for meat.  One store did not have any.  The other store had only chicken left and that's what we got.  No question where it came from.  That's the only thing they had and that's what we got.  Most people in town shop at these stores because prices are much cheaper.  Homegrown beef is only available very early in the morning at the wet market and it is very expensive.

Evidence 4:
Russia has shortage of beef.  It always had for the last 100 years.  Right now due to European/US sanctions Russia is importing beef from Argentina.  And that's not organic beef.  It is from the largest industrial farms.  Here is a good read about beef situation http://www.rbcdaily.ru/industry/562949994199809

Evidence 5:
Effort needed to find quality food.  Here in the US I just google and I have many many options.  Over there it is a different story.  One time Yuri was complaining he cannot find good source.  He would go to the market and ask people what do they feed their stock and the usual answer was grain.  It took many many days of searching until he located a good and reliable source of grass-fed.  And he makes enough to afford it.  His brother on the other hand totally does not care about it.  Only very determined will succeed and there are so few of them mostly due to the overall health attitude (see next point).

Evidence 6:
Overall health attitude.  It is very low.  Much much lower than in the US.  It struck me how many people smoke.  Anywhere you look there are smokers.  Old, young, men, women.  Then I remembered growing up that almost all my friends started smoking at about 12-14y.  I met one of my childhood friends.  His dad passed away at 60 from lung cancer.  He was smoking all his life.  And while he is telling me that he lights up a cigarette.  And I'm thinking don't you get it, your dad died because of it and you are doing the same thing.  Of course I did not say anything out loud.  There is a reason why male life expectancy is around 65.  I don't even want to bring up drinking.

Evidence 7:
Health attitude continues.  Ecological situation in Russia is one of the worst in the world.  Lookup Norilsk.  It is the absolute worst place to live anywhere in the world.  There are plenty of big cities where air pollution is horrible.  Better than Norilsk but still just awful compared to the average industrial city in the US.  Here is a list http://topmira.com/goroda-strany/item/47-samye-grjaznye-goroda-russia-2013
I remember the first time I visited Philippines, exhaust fumes hit you right in the face.  Russia is just a little better in that regard but still terrible compared to Europe/US.

Is that enough or should I go on?

Of course not absolutely everything is gloom over there.  In my opinion Russian bath in the country side is the best thing ever.  There are definitely places where living is decent. But there are so few of them that it makes little difference overall.  You have no idea how silly you look when you bring up these phantom leaderships.  There is a reason why millions of people fled Russia in the last 20 years.  Just last year 250,000 left.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 01:51:35 pm by ys »

Offline Brad462

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2016, 03:02:05 pm »
If the Russian economy is truly is bad as you say maybe it is time for the west to end our sanctions against them.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-truth-about-sanctions-against-russia-14789?page=2
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Where Have all the Cowboys Gone (Russia?)
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2016, 10:45:15 pm »
It was never my intention to get into a pissing match....I never said the new Russia was the paragon of success...I agree many people in Russia Drink, Smoke, eat poorly, and dont care about any of these issues and regardless of what the central government does the masses who have lived that way for generations are not going to change over night. I am attempting to point out positive trends and encourage the kind of local food movements which are underway in Russia and many other parts of the world.

LIke I stated before every one the complaints against Russia could easily be applied to parts of America. For example I live in the state of Kentucky....
30 percent of the population smokes cigarettes,
A large portion drinks regularly,
There is an all out drug epidemic,
Many are on government welfare,
The medical system is corrupt to the core
Common core education is an Obomination
The big chain supermarkets supply the majority of the people with cheap processed foods,
There is no representation for the concerns of the poor in local government,
Our Dark lord of the Senate is working to hand over absolute war power to the Executive,

Should I go on.....?

Regardless of the faults of Government or the majority of the fallen people who make it up, be it in the USA or the countries of the former USSR, there are millions of people who do care deeply about these matters....Our state is dotted with small family farms, and there are many people who work hard to do everything they can to hold back the tide of stupidity and eek out a decent life....I know there must be a similar situation in Russia....It is for those small family farmers, and the newly awakened millennial generation that we should give our support and attention to.......

Its a free internet forum, so if one would like to continue to bash and bigot a nation of millions and place blame and judgment upon our fellow humans for things beyond their control, then help yourself.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 10:51:26 pm by sabertooth »
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.