Author Topic: Hard Anopsology question to explain  (Read 10184 times)

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Offline AnopsStudier

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2014, 09:30:16 am »
So in theory your body should be in align with the seasons of the place you reside in?

Offline eveheart

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2014, 09:45:14 am »
So in theory your body should be in align with the seasons of the place you reside in?

There are many theories about this sort of thing! Instinctive eating gives you food guidance that transcends this or that theory.
"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline Iguana

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2014, 03:42:16 pm »
So in theory your body should be in align with the seasons of the place you reside in?

No, this is nonsensical. Eveheart is right. Our ancestors were nomad and thus didn't reside in a fixed place. They spread all over entire continents and ate foods from various environments.

You said you're gonna read GCB's book. Didn't you read it?
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline AnopsStudier

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2014, 01:16:28 am »
reading it right now..  I dont seem to see anything about eating seasonally and locally in the links you provided

Our ancestors who were nomads traveled and ate the food they found in the location they were.  So in sense they were always in touch with the "seasons"
according to where they were.

So If i currently live in Illinois and am trying to walk to a warmer climate (say florida)  i will travel through Kentucky, Tennessee, and Georgia and eat the foods I found growing or wild animals I can kill on the way there.  Which would make it so I would be in touch with the seasons in accordance to where my body was when I was eating a particular food.

Yes, we are all descendants from animals who dwell in the tropics and in the rain forest but we have obviously changed becuase of our locations.
Thats why people from different places in the world look different and why there skin tones are different.. so they most likely require different nutritional needs
in accordance to there location, the amount of sun exposure they get in that part of the world, many environmental factors
 
In the tropics the seasons are not as prominent and animals are in touch with there environment always by eating what grows and what is found.
There just happens to be a ton of wild fruit and vegetation there.
To be truly in touch with your surrounding, living outside and eating instinctively would be the best and I have seen no arguements so far that can disprove that to me.
When you live in nature you get a certain amount of exposure to the elements around you and the fruits and vegetables in that area provide you with the
nutrition you need for being in that location
 



One day read this book by Henry David Thoreau.  (Link at the bottom)
There are a few lines and paragraphs were he talks about being in touch with the seasons and it is inspiring.  I agree with anopsology but also being in tune with the seasons.



If I were to live outside in the wild after going through anopstherapy (which i am going to experiment with in better weather).... I would like to see
what my instincts were drawn too.. I could bring with a ton of fruit and veggies and see if my instincts draw me to the foods growing around me
or if they still draw me to the vast tropical fruits and various fruits and vegetables.

http://www.amazon.com/Wild-Fruits-Thoreaus-Rediscovered-Manuscript/dp/0393321150



Inger posted this once and how does it not make the most sense?

"For Instincto to work and be a healthy diet it would have to base on what grows in the season where you live.
ONLY that way I can agree it might a great theory. Any other way is just an illusion and a lie. Sorry to be harsh but it is a biologic fact we can only consume carbs when we get plenty of sunlight on our skin, without getting hurt in one way or another. The sicker we are the more it will hurt to live in such a mismatch.
There is a reason why fruit grows only in seasons or places with lots of sun and not too cold.

There is a reason to that.

Everything in nature happends for a reason.

As long as Instincto do not see this fact, the theory is flawed to me."
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 04:19:15 am by AnopsStudier »

Offline Iguana

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2014, 04:19:35 am »
To be truly in touch with your surrounding, living outside and eating instinctively would be the best and I have seen no arguements so far that can disprove that to me.

You've seen no argument to disprove that, simply because there's none! Yes, it is really the best when possible and if you're in a place where you can find all the foods you need... ;)
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline AnopsStudier

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2014, 07:40:18 am »
GCB uses the term denatured alot in his book/writings?   
In my eyes eating tropical fruits in the dead of winter in Russia would be "denatured" because that would not be a natural occurence.

What are GCB's opinion on there being an optimal environment or habitat for humans?  and what is his stance on local seasonal eating and why or not it is the optimal way?

can you explain to me your ideas on local and seasonal eating in a little more depth iguana and eveheart?    why would a person living in russia for there whole life instinctively go for a pineapple?  Does it have something to do with us recreating our natural environment through shelter with the ability to control temperatures? (fire and modern heating)

do people who have been through years and years of eating instinctively still usually eat non local foods?


and am I even on the right track by buying fruits from the organic market?  How am i supposed to know if these fruits would actually grow wild or are just domesticated fruits that are messing with my natural instinctive senses?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 11:23:31 am by AnopsStudier »

Offline Iguana

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2014, 03:03:11 pm »
Ok, AnopStudier, let me first complete my own previous post! Thinking about it overnight, I realize I forgot a fundamental element: living outside in an unspoiled environment like our nomadic hunter-gatherers ancestors would have to be done in tribal group of at least 20 – 30 and up to 150 firmly bound, physically and mentally healthy people.

Take an ape that has always been living in a zoo or under human care and set him free in his natural environment: he his unlikely to survive because he would lacks the necessary skills and knowledge. Most humans in the same situation would meet such a miserable fate. You’ve got to be realistic.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Iguana

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2014, 04:07:48 pm »
 
GCB uses the term denatured alot in his book/writings?   
In my eyes eating tropical fruits in the dead of winter in Russia would be "denatured" because that would not be a natural occurence.

I don’t think it’s natural for our species to live for example in Siberia in the middle of winter. If some of our ancestors settled in such cold inhospitable regions, it was only after they had developed some clothing, hunting and fishing techniques such as javelins, harpoons, bows with arrows, and also mainly after they mastered the fire.

Living in a modern city and working to earn money is not natural either, but most of us have to do with it. What about seamen living aboard ships or submarines ? Should they eat fish only and no plant food at all? On long distance sailings, scurvy was prevented only after lemons were consumed aboard ships. 

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What are GCB's opinion on there being an optimal environment or habitat for humans?  and what is his stance on local seasonal eating and why or not it is the optimal way?

It’s optimal when you are in the right environment. For example, when I lived in Sri Lanka or in Polynesia, I ate exclusively foods currently available on the island. Now in Algarve, I eat fish, shelfish, fruits and veggies harvested in the region. 

On the opposite, if you were living in downtown Moscow or New York, you would have no choice but to eat food (raw or cooked) coming from somewhere else because you’re unlikely to catch a unpolluted wild animal or plant in the center of a big city. When I was in Lausanne, Switzerland, the only exclusively grass fed meat I could find outside the hunting season was New Zealand lamb and Australian horse. The sea-fish and shellfish I bought were obviously transported from far away. 

At the beginning of their raw experiment, around 1965, GCB and his family were restricting their food choice to “locally grown”, whatever it meant. After a couple of years, they were all fed up to eat apples as the only available fruit in winter and they would have been unable to pursue the experience if the hadn’t introduced foreign fruits, fish and shellfish from the Atlantic, etc..

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can you explain to me your ideas on local and seasonal eating in a little more depth iguana and eveheart?    why would a person living in russia for there whole life instinctively go for a pineapple?

Because all humans have the same genes, wherever we are, wherever our ancestors migrated and settled after they mastered the fire, developed hunting weapons and techniques, clothing, housing, etc.

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Does it have something to do with us recreating our natural environment through shelter with the ability to control temperatures? (fire and modern heating)

I guess so.

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do people who have been through years and years of eating instinctively still usually eat non local foods?

As I tried to explain above, it depends where we are. If enough food is available in the region, we can live with it. If not enough is available around, then we also eat food transported form far away rather than reverting to cooked food — which by the way is very often coming from foreign countries.   

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and am I even on the right track by buying fruits from the organic market?  How am i supposed to know if these fruits would actually grow wild or are just domesticated fruits that are messing with my natural instinctive senses?

It takes a little research and common sense. Small, irregular looking fruits with seeds are likely to be more like their wild counterparts than shining, big, nice looking fruits grown in industrial monocultures. But you won’t die nor compromise your whole experience if you eat once in a way a few seedless big shinning persimmons or a couple of commercial bananas. That will be better than eating a sandwich, anyway!

PS: It also depends who you are. If you're very healthy, you may live well with a limited raw food range. But if you're seriously ill, then the broadest possible raw paleo food choice will provide the best healing chances — and the best chance as well to remain on a strict raw paleo diet for years without being too much tempted to revert to cooked meals again.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 01:19:30 am by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline AnopsStudier

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2014, 11:05:53 pm »
thanks Iguana! great response.

then its great that we now have access to any food we want! (if you have money)
youre saying you think our genes have more to do with our instinctive eating than our surroundings?
Since we are all basically trying to recreate our natural environment by modern shelter, heat, and clothing?


But.... say someone was living in civilized south america there whole life and eating whatever food they instinctively chose to eat from local health food stores or farmers markets...
Then  they decided to move into the wild somewhere in South America (even it was dangerous) where there was a ton of wild food growing (plants, animals) 
Do you think that if you still had your health food store foods with you at all times  (fruits and veggies from all over the world)  and had a plethora of wild fruit and wild vegetation growing around you that you your instincts would still lean you towards the foods from other parts of the world?
Or now being in touch with nature your body would instincively want those "local" wild foods'



Also I didnt see this post before and I think its wonderful!  That stuck in my mind and made alot of sense Eveheart. Thank You

"I've heard about the idea that one should eat like one's fore-bearers, but I don't think you're going  back far enough when you look at Greenland and Brazil. The clues about what those distant ancestors ate vary from site to site, but those clues were always things like piles of bones or piles of shells, or hunting implements.  Then, too, they probably at least nibbled on things that grew nearby.

I don't think about it as much as you do. I think you can learn how to eat instinctively just by doing it. The benefit of instinctive eating is the process, not the menu, and it's the process that helps you identify the menu. Because it is a process, you'll learn by doing, and a lot of your questions will be answered by your own experiences."


And one  more question I would like a little more detail on!

How do you determine what foods are most like the natural wild foods we are meant to consume?

I went to the local fresh market and bought Pears with brown spots all over them because they seemed to me be more natural (like the picture of the apples you posted)
So today when I ate one it was amazing and I felt fantastic.   The fruit was not organic it was a "concorde pear.   How do I keep going about choosing the wildest foods?
Did I instinctively choose the best pears or did i just choose them because they were ripe?

And you also stated that many imported foods are irradiated.. so why would one consume imported foods?  Isnt there a required Irradiated label on produce?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 05:57:53 am by AnopsStudier »

Offline eveheart

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2014, 06:31:41 am »
And one  more question I would like a little more detail on!

How do you determine what foods are most like the natural wild foods we are meant to consume?....   How do I keep going about choosing the wildest foods?....Did I instinctively choose the best pears or did i just choose them because they were ripe?.... And you also stated that many imported foods are irradiated.. so why would one consume imported foods?  Isnt there a required Irradiated label on produce?

Perhaps a more pragmatic approach would serve you well here. Suppose you were a paleolithic person living with your tribe or group or clan, and you just came across a grove of ripe pears. You all would use instinctive eating to determine if the fruits were good to consume, and ripeness would probably be the overriding factor in deciding whether to eat the fruit or leave it alone. However, if the fruit were agreeable to eat, nobody would go hungry because they felt like having salmon at the moment.

Now, suppose the hunters in your group just took down a large animal. As one of the hunters, you would get first choice of the parts of the animal. Are you going to reject the meat because you would much rather have a pear at that moment?

And how about me, an older woman in your group. After you hunters have eaten, you bring me some muscle meat. Am I going to toss the muscle aside and bring up the fact that I should be eating liver at that moment because I haven't had liver lately?

Over-thinking food choices is something that comes with surplus food. You can resolve to get past that mental struggle and just enjoy the food that is available to you, using the food selection and preparation guidelines that let your instincts work as nature intended. You know what adulterants (GMOs, pesticides, herbicides, toxic fertilizers, irradiation, CAFO meat, etc.) are in our food supply, and these can be avoided. All other foods are fair game.

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GCB uses the term denatured alot in his book/writings?   
In my eyes eating tropical fruits in the dead of winter in Russia would be "denatured" because that would not be a natural occurence.

GCB uses the word denatured in its traditional sense: food that has been rendered inedible, and he applies this meaning to cooked, processed, and seasoned foods. No need to invent another meaning for a word that expresses his main point.
"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline AnopsStudier

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2014, 06:43:04 am »
thank you for the reply eve heart.  That made sense to me and put my mind at ease.

 What you are trying to get across to me is that nobody could possibly have every natural food at there feet to pick from, so they make due with what they have access too
and use instincts to determine the food most suited to there needs at that moment.  Correct?   But in the case of starvation or extreme hunger a person would not turn down one food because they wanted another. Correct?

And another question lol.    Does our ancestory have anything to do with our instinctive nutrition and how far back would it matter?

I know that I am at least of Finnish, English, German, and Welsh decent.  Does this influence my instincts? 
Im just kinda trying to figure the optimal environment question.
  Is there an optimal environment for each individual person?
Would  European descendants not be better off living in europe? 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 08:34:43 am by AnopsStudier »

Offline eveheart

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2014, 08:40:30 am »
What you are trying to get across to me is that nobody could possibly have every natural food at there feet to pick from, so they make due with what they have access too and use instincts to determine the food most suited to there needs at that moment.  Correct?   But in the case of starvation or extreme hunger a person would not turn down one food because they wanted another. Correct?

You make it sound like we're always making a poor compromise. I think the opposite is true. Food is food. If we eat tasty, inviting food without making it taste like something else or "wolfing" it down to get past a disagreeable sensation, it is nourishing to our body.

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And another question lol.    Does our ancestory have anything to do with our instinctive nutrition and how far back would it matter? I know that I am at least of Finnish, English, German, and Welsh decent.  Does this influence my instincts?

You already asked this question, and it has been answered.
"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline AnopsStudier

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2014, 08:58:24 am »
I guess for some reason in my head I feel like there might be an optimal location for each individual according to his or her genes.
Or am i totally wrong in this way of thinking?   I mean how far back can it go?  Since are ancestors all most likely came from Africa before they migrated to other places


and im trying to figure out if theres an optimal location according to our genes or if we all adapt to our surrounding individually when eat local

« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 01:06:11 pm by AnopsStudier »

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2014, 12:48:01 pm »
I guess for some reason in my head I feel like there might be an optimal location for each individual according to his or her genes.
Or am i totally wrong in this way of thinking?   I mean how far back can it go?  Since are ancestors all most likely came from Africa before they migrated to other places


and im trying to figure out if theres an optimal location according to our genes or if we all adapt to our surrounding individually when eat local



Some of us have been eating all raw or mostly-raw diets for close to 30 years now.  Most of the moderators have been doing it for at least 10 years or more.  All of us long-timers are very bright people, and have thought about and studied the issues you're asking about right now VERY thoroughly.

If the answer were really clear-cut, we'd already have discovered it.  You are free to keep theorizing, but don't hold out any hope that you'll suddenly figure out "the truth about nutrition".  It doesn't happen that way.  Genetics, environment, and body chemistry are all FAR too complex to be able to determine the exact perfect diet for any one person.  The best you can do is eat whatever foods seem to work the best for you at the moment.  Paying attention to the quality of the food, the climate it's grown in, your ancestry, the climate/season of your current location, etc. are all helpful, but ultimately those are just general guidelines.

Offline AnopsStudier

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2014, 03:52:33 am »
Thanks for all the replies!  Put my mind at ease..Got another question or two though.  O0 -d

How do you guys choose what you are going to buy with anopsology?  Do you  smell the food at the store?  I obviously can not tell what my body is going to need 3 days down the road!    Once you detox from cooked foods do you start craving the right foods?

Offline Iguana

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2014, 04:41:35 am »
How do you guys choose what you are going to buy with anopsology?  Do you  smell the food at the store?

You may do that — if and where possible…  ;) Yeah, it’s a bit tricky at the beginning, especially alone without any experimented person to advice and train you. But after a few years of practice (I’m joking, it will probably be quicker then that!) you will know what you’re likely to like in the next days. The best is to have as much as possible choice at home, and try (smell, and taste if the smell is appetizing) as many different raw foods as possible wherever you are, at “raw” friends, at the market, on a sea shore, etc. 

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I obviously can not tell what my body is going to need 3 days down the road!    Once you detox from cooked foods do you start craving the right foods?

If you’re not ill, you can do with any raw paleo foods you find and like. Some meat, fish, shellfish, eggs (if you can find suitable ones, which is extremely difficult), a few fruits, veggies, nuts, perhaps carob, dates… You can store most foods during long periods. For example, it’s advisable to have a stock of hazelnuts, walnuts, almonds, perhaps macadamia nuts, various varieties of dates at home. Even meat can be stored for up to 2 months in a suitable fridge before becoming too dry. Most people usually like tuna fish, mackerel, swordfish, grouper, wild salmon, etc. Buy a small amount if you’re not sure and if you like it you can buy more next time. If you bought too much, you can cut it into fillets and dry them on a desiccator, so you can store it till you’re hungry for it.

Don’t trust your cravings, they’re induced by your memory of the last time you ate that stuff. It may have been cooked, but even if raw, your needs may have changed in the meanwhile.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline AnopsStudier

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #41 on: January 23, 2014, 09:26:08 am »
so when i go to the store (i can afford whatever i want at the moment)  buy as many fruits and vegetables as I want and test which ones I like the best and need?

Offline Iguana

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2014, 04:02:20 pm »
Yes, you can do that.  You can do it with seafood too. Do you have a reliable source of meat?
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline AnopsStudier

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2014, 11:18:41 pm »
Iguana I know of a butcher about 12-15 miles from my home that sells grass fed steaks/beef cuts and cage free poultry.  Is this a good source in your opinion?  I have access to raw cage free eggs from a local farm down the road also.

I havent had a craving for any raw animal products yet but I also havent bought any to test out.  I spent 6 years devouring cooked bison, and cooked chicken and loads of cooked beef so I wonder about the damage i've done to my body.  I do seem to "detoxify" really fast.  I drink a ton of water and can easily fast for 2-3 days with no problem and "cleanse"...
but...  I have a problem keeping weight on!  I weigh 165 lbs and I am 6'3!  Im might just have to endure a little bit of weight loss to heal my body! 

My plan as of now is.. To stay away from all cooked foods,  buy as many different kinds of fruit and vegetables as I can find and test them all out and see what my body does.   

Do your craving become more on point after youve been eating raw for a long time?  Or do you continuously use your sense of smell and taste and ignore cravings?

Offline Iguana

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Re: Hard Anopsology question to explain
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2014, 03:09:20 am »
Iguana I know of a butcher about 12-15 miles from my home that sells grass fed steaks/beef cuts and cage free poultry.  Is this a good source in your opinion?  I have access to raw cage free eggs from a local farm down the road also.

For the beef, I don’t know because we should make sure that the animals have never received any medicine, industrial feed, heated food, wheat, hot dried grain, soja, corn, etc.

About the eggs, at best they would have received hot dried grain, at worse industrial feed, cooked leftovers and wheat. I would never eat such eggs.

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I havent had a craving for any raw animal products yet but I also havent bought any to test out.

You can only know by taking the smell of it. Fresh meat would probably be unappetizing, but once aged a few weeks hung in a dedicated fridge, it can be delicious, with a strong attractive (or repealing if you are still in animal proteins’ overload) smell. Anyway, if you’ve stayed a few days, perhaps a week or two, without any animal food, you would surely be hungry and feel that something in missing in your diet.

You can buy a piece of fresh tuna or swordfish as a start, perhaps a few clams as well.   

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I spent 6 years devouring cooked bison, and cooked chicken and loads of cooked beef so I wonder about the damage i've done to my body.

Cooked meat is probably not as damaging as junk food!

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I do seem to "detoxify" really fast.  I drink a ton of water and can easily fast for 2-3 days with no problem and "cleanse"...
but...  I have a problem keeping weight on!  I weigh 165 lbs and I am 6'3!  Im might just have to endure a little bit of weight loss to heal my body!

Yeah, no problem, an initial weight loss is normal. Drinking a lot is also normal at the beginning, I drank up to 7 liter/day on hot summer days in my first year. Fasting is advised only if no raw food whatsoever is appetizing. I never fasted more than one day!   

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My plan as of now is.. To stay away from all cooked foods,  buy as many different kinds of fruit and vegetables as I can find and test them all out and see what my body does.   

Do your craving become more on point after youve been eating raw for a long time?  Or do you continuously use your sense of smell and taste and ignore cravings?

You’d better add at least some raw unheated nuts and avocados until animal foods become attractive, otherwise you will probably be soon very hungry and quickly bored.

I don’t ignore cravings, they can be useful, but they should always be checked by taking the smell / comparing the smells of the different foods you have around and being attentive to their taste.
Yes, I feel cravings tend to become more on point along the years of experience, but they still remain somewhat unreliable. 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 03:25:31 am by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler