Author Topic: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)  (Read 7506 times)

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Offline lena

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need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« on: October 24, 2013, 08:14:20 am »
Hi, I'm new here and I've been reading everything on this forum for a couple months and been eating 100% raw for about 2 months. My story is as follows. A couple years ago I had terrible acne over every inch of my face. I went on accutane and that cleared it up but when i finished the accutane it came back and i had to take accutane a 2nd time. Both times I was on accutane I had terrible bone pains, dry lips and skin, and mood problems. about halfway through my second course of accutane I found the (cooked) paleo diet and immediately stopped taking accutane and eating cooked paleo. This helped my acne a lot, but I kept having to get stricter and stricter with my diet to have relatively clear skin. I was breaking out more than usual when I found this raw paleo diet and have been eating it since then for 2 months.

Here is what I eat every day:
3-4 fertile, pastured egg yolks
about 1/4 lb wild fish or grass fed beef
mature coconut water and meat (1 coconut lasts me 3 days usually)
a lot of fruit (papaya, mango, plum, banana, pomegranate, etc)

I have 3 questions:
1. I find myself craving mostly fruit. Sometimes I crave meat and fish but only in small amounts. I always eat animal foods first. I find organ meats and bone marrow downright repulsive. How do I make myself like animal foods more?
2. I crave tomatoes and grapefruit SO much but they both give me gas and diarrhea. Especially grapefruit, one day I ate 6 before I reached a stop and I had bad gas all day and diarrhea the next morning. I don't think this is detox, but could it be? How could something taste so good if it's bad for me?
3. I am still getting acne, it is smaller and not as inflamed but still lots of little spots, mostly on my cheeks? any advice?

Thank you so much for this forum and all the knowledge that everyone here has :)

Offline jessica

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2013, 08:42:06 am »
egg yolks and grapefruit might be making you produce a ton of bile/flushing your gallbladder and giving you diarrhea.  do you ever try berries instead of grapefruit?  you might just want something sweet+vitamin c.  do you eat the pith/rind? do you eat any seaweed?

do you have access to other types of seafood or meats?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 08:55:08 am by jessica »

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2013, 09:35:56 am »
Others may have different experiences, but for me to eat meat or fish and then right away eat fruit would cause very poor digestion with the meat or fish.  Personally if I'm going to eat fruit, I want to make sure my stomach is pretty well empty.  Fruit creates mostly an alkaline condition in the stomach.  Acid is needed to digest meat. And if you are getting used to eating meat again, your production of hcl is most likely low.  Thus to further reduce it's power in meat digestion by heaping on fruit and hence diluting the acids could very well be giving you your associated problems.  Besides the egg yolks, your diet inclusions looks low in fats.   You might try mixing in a table spoon of soft bone marrow to say ground beef, or slice a piece very thinly and roll it up around some marrow, or thinly sliced back fat.  If you have access to fresh raw butter (especially before winter sets in and there is no green for cows to eat) that might help.  Avocados, soaked truly raw nuts, like almonds or this time of year fresh walnuts, or in shell fresh brazil nuts are good supplemental fat foods that help.    Without a good source of fat, you'll be feeling the need to eat a lot of fruit, which may or may not be right for you.  I would suggest giving fat a good try and reduce some of your fruit eating, especially with cold months coming on (can't tell where you live, but then maybe fine for you if you live in say the tropics.) 
   I like to eat fruit either before or after exercising, and then when truly hungry afterwards, eat fat and meat.    The important thing is to experiment, but with patience.  For example the body can take some time learning how to readapt to using fat as fuel as compared to sugar from fruits.   

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2013, 09:57:11 am »
What's your body weight, height, gender, and age?  Most raw paleo men will eat around a pound of meat/fish a day or more, depending on body size and climate/season/weather.

I make sure to eat my meat/fish first thing at my first meal of the day.  I eat my fill of several different types of fish and shellfish, usually, then have an avocado or two and a few bananas.  I usually eat close to a pound of fish, always wild-caught.

Offline ys

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2013, 10:05:58 am »
Quote
I find organ meats and bone marrow downright repulsive. How do I make myself like animal foods more?

It is all mental.  Think of it as the ultimate vitamins.

Heart and Tongue are all muscles so not much different from meat
Liver - try cutting partially thawed liver into small cubes.  It helps if you don't like texture.
Kidney - has better texture than liver but smells like piss.  Beef kidney is the mildest.
Spleen - do not try until you are comfortable with liver and kidney
Lungs - very little taste but somewhat rubbery

Offline lena

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2013, 10:20:38 am »
jessica - i ate a lot of berries during the summer but now they are very expensive or not available at all. One reason I want to eat more meat and less fruit is that meat is cheaper for me than fruit. I ate the grapefruit pith but not the rind. I don't eat seaweed because I have been unable to find fresh, only dried. I was considering harvesting it myself bc i live in seattle, but i did some research and read that you shouldn't eat seaweed in my area because the water is polluted. I have access to all types of fish, and grass fed beef. I don't have access to any chicken or pork that haven't been fed grains, should I eat grain-fed (but pasture raised) chicken/pork. I have been unable to find any wild meats.

van - Thanks for the advice, I will try eating fruits and meats at completely separate meals. I did buy grassfed beef fat but it was dry and crumbly and tasted terrible. I do sometimes spread the bone marrow on slices of beef, but can only do small amount because I don't like the taste of the marrow. For the first month of this diet I was eating a lot of macadamia nuts (almost 1 lb a day!), but I found out they weren't actually raw, and I was craving them in such huge amounts that I just stopped eating them entirely. I havent found any truly raw nuts and I don't really like avocados. I agree that I definitely need more fats, which is why I want to teach myself to like bone marrow. the only type of fat that tastes good to me is nuts but I'm not sure thats the best option in huge amounts and i can't get them raw. I live in the pacific northwest, so I for sure need more fats for winter, I just don't know how to teach myself to like it! I want to like bone marrow because it's the only thing I always have access to.

cherimoyakid - I am 115 lb, 5' 6", female, and 16 years.

ys - I know it is partly mental but I also just don't like the taste! I usually like the taste of plain raw beef and fish in small amounts though. I dont have access to kidney, spleen, or lungs, but i have tried heart and liver. the liver i really didnt like and gagged after only 2 bites. the heart was ok in small amounts but i much prefer muscle meat.

Thank you for all the replies so far, this is very helpful

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2013, 11:54:26 am »
I would keep trying different fatty seafoods until you find one you like.  In your area the bigger oysters are actually pretty fatty, and I love them.  There's also fish eggs and scallop roe, if you can get them.  Those are all very fatty.

You might be able to find a local grassfed beef producer who can get you the fatty body parts like the backfat, tongue, etc.. Some people here are also able to get free or cheap fat trimmings from grassfed beef at places like Whole Foods.

Seattle in the winter is not a good place/time to be eating watery fruits like grapefruit.  You'd be much better off with bananas, which are heaver and drier, and easier to digest. Dates are good too, just make sure they're raw. As long as they are not pitted, they are pretty much always raw.

Let me know if that advice helps.

Offline Haai

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2013, 04:38:35 pm »
Here is what I eat every day:
3-4 fertile, pastured egg yolks
about 1/4 lb wild fish or grass fed beef
mature coconut water and meat (1 coconut lasts me 3 days usually)
a lot of fruit (papaya, mango, plum, banana, pomegranate, etc)

Firstly, the chances are very high that you have a leaky gut from your Standard Western Diet days. For this reason I would seriously consider eliminating eggs from your diet, at least temporarily. There are so many different proteins in eggs, most of which have anti-nutrient properties, because the last thing an egg wants is to be eaten. Some of these proteins will be able to pass fully intact through the wall of a leaky gut and cause inflammation and other problems.

Secondly, you are eating way too much fruit. Sugar (yes, even from fruits) is hugely implicated in acne. The only fruits I would recommend are berries, and avocados seeing as you are having trouble finding and eating animal fat (for the same reason, keep on eating mature coconut).

A tip for eating organ meats: cut them into tiny pieces (pill sized) and then freeze them. Once they are frozen you can swallow them very quickly, with water if necessary. That way you won't experience the taste and texture, which, it seems, you can't stand at this point in time. The same can be done with bone marrow I suppose.

Also, I know a lot of girls try and hide their acne with make up. Avoid doing this. You should avoid all cosmetics, soaps, cleansers, shampoos, etc. They are not good for your skin.

If it's pretty much winter now where you are, consider taking a vitamin D3 supplement. It will help reduce inflammation.
"In the modern, prevailing view of the cosmos, we sit here as tiny, unimportant specks of protoplasm, flukes of nature, and stare out into an almost limitless void. Vast, nameless tracts of emptiness dominate the scene. Talk about feeling small.
But we do not look out at the universe; it is, instead, within us, as a rich 3-D visual experience whose location is the mind" - R. Lanza, Beyond Biocentrism.

Offline jessica

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2013, 09:30:47 pm »
I think as a female at your age you really should be eating more food.  Your weight its probably the lowest it should ever be, any lower and  you might not be able to maintain fertility and proper hormonal function, that might be one reason you are having acne.  In females, too low a weight can produce an imbalance in testosterone and cause hormonal acne.

If I were you I would take a look at Inger's journal and see what and how she eats food and in what quantity.  She probably eats what you eat all day in one meal, and is still very lean, beautiful, smooth skin and fertile. 

I would suggest more fish as well, definitely branch out into different types, oysters are excellent.  Even if you have to lightly cook the fish to make them more palatable its a great idea. 

Do you have access to grass fed raw dairy and, if so, have you ever tried it out?  I find that small amounts of fermented/aged raw dairy, such as full fat yogurt or raw cheese, makes my skin exceptionally smooth and gives it a good amounts of moisture(not greasy!:)!) I think it is also a great food for females but should be eaten by itself, not mixed with anything, and in small quantities.

Are there any wild berries you can pick your self, for example rose hips or hawthorn are later fall/winter berries.  Rose hips are pretty inexpensive to buy dried and in bulk. 

I am in the PNW and eat seaweed harvested from our coasts.  True, the ocean is polluted, but so is the air and all of our food has some inherent pollution because we live in a polluted world.  I don't think that means you shouldn't breath or be afraid to eat, you just have to limit exposure and heal your body so all that it is dealing with are those pollutants.  Our properly functioning organs are fully capable of this.  You can try some Klamath seaweeds/spirulinas, from lake Klamath down here in Southern Oregon, but it still gets particulates from chemtrails and jets and, industries and cars.  I try not to be too worried about this.  I only mention it because grapefruit and pith and tomatoes are high potassium, and because you are eating so low carb you are probably craving potassium.  Perhaps try munching on some dandelion greens, there are so many wild edibles out in Seattle and surrounding that might be good sources of nutrition for you.

Have you, or would you consider to dry age your meats?  Like make little meat balls and patties and then age them in the open air so they dry out a bit? sometimes I find this makes meat much more paletable, plus it might help to get some good bacteria going in your body to help your digestion and complexion.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 10:28:26 pm by jessica »

Online TylerDurden

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2013, 09:55:55 pm »
There are one or two suggestions in this post below  which might help you adjust to a raw, palaeolithic diet:-

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/important-info-for-newbies/sticky-advice-for-newbies-wishing-to-slowly-ease-into-a-raw-animal-food-diet/

Come to think of it,  some of the  posters on this very thread  have mentioned various methods which I had not thought of re getting used to raw meat etc.. I hope no one minds if I include mention of such advice in the above stickied post?
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Offline Eric

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2013, 11:49:42 pm »
Greetings Lena, welcome to the forum. Reading through the issues you note I also suspect you have leaky gut. Step one is to heal that, which will take some time. I suggest fasting for a few days and let your digestive system rest, then ease back into eating relying mostly on fermented vegetables and animal foods like meat, bone marrow, back fat, and organs (I know you said you don't like them, but the only way to adjust to the taste and texture is to eat them).

Sugar doesn't help your leaky gut, no matter what foods it's from. I suggest cutting out fruit for a while. Just because you crave something doesn't mean it's good for you. Look at all the people who crave ice cream, chocolate and candy. Obviously not healthy foods...
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Offline Dr. D

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2013, 12:28:36 am »
Hey Lena, Welcome! I'm from WA also! I'm more in the central part, a little bit north of Chelan. Glad to know there are other raw eaters here.

So here's my 2 cents. Fruit from our area is very tough to find in it's more natural state. Even organic fruits have a tendency to be altered and therefore our natural/instinctual STOP is affected. Granted, they are higher brix (sugar and possibly nutrition) than in the wild but that means your body can want more than it needs. Personally I was able to notice the stop in my meat eating pretty early on but fruit I wasn't able to until I took a break and went zero-carb. This trained my body to become fat adapted, detox any issues caused by processed sugars, and sort of "reset" my metabolism, brain and body.

In about a year I plan to move that way for the huge benefit of fresh wild seafood. There is SO MUCH there and while I haven't searched that much, even some place like pike's fish market has super high quality salmon (sockeye) at $10/#. I've had it before and it's great and safe to eat raw. Also, check out eatwild.com there's a bunch of farms up and down I-5. Even more than my side of the mountains.

Try zero-carb for at least 2 weeks, possibly starting off with a fat fast for 3 days. The beef fat that you got that was dry and crumbly was probably suet. I've had that before and it works best mixed with meat for juiciness. Try to ask for "back fat." That comes in layers of soft, oily fat and is really good. One thing you can do with your suet is roll it around in your hands and warm it up slightly while pressing it to make it a little softer and oily. Sometimes this works, sometimes not. You can also just pop some in your mouth and plan on chewing it for a few minutes like a piece of gum before swallowing. This is very beneficial for your dental health and is known in Ayurveda as "oil pulling."

Side note, at 16, are your parents cool with you eating raw? I know we live in a progressive state but I've found no correlation between liberal/conservative and being accepting of raw eating or not. I'm just curious.

Again, welcome and good luck!
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2013, 12:38:24 am »
Welcome to Lena !

Since you asked especially about « instincto », I think I’m about the only one here to practice it – and knowing it. I’m not at home since next week, quite busy and  disgusted by the uncontrolled rants of mister SVRN who is flooding this forum.

Did you read GCB’s book? It’s a good (and must read) introduction to the theory, but for the practice it’s another matter. http://www.reocities.com/HotSprings/7627/ggindex.html

Cheers
François
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 10:13:39 am by TylerDurden »
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Offline lena

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2013, 01:19:01 am »
Wow, thanks for all the responses! From everyone's advice, I think I will definitely start out trying to eat more animal foods of all types and less fruit.

Cherimoya kid - Interesting, I assumed that bananas were worse than grapefruits because they are grown in central america, while grapefruits are grown closer to my area, california or florida. Is there a reason that watery fruits are worse?

jessica - I have always been skinny even on a sad diet, and I haven't changed weight for about 2 years. I haven't been eating dairy because I thought it was not paleo? I know some people eat it but I haven't tried it because I feel like I'm changing so many things at once that I wouldn't be able to tell if it was working or not.

Dr D - Yes Seattle has so much great seafood! I'm not a fan of oysters but I do really like clams and tuna, so I've been eating those. My parents aren't crazy about this, so I don't eat raw meat/fish in front of them, but they know I'm doing it and aren't stopping me either.

Iguana - Yes, I read GCBs book about a month ago from the link that was posted on this forum and have been trying to put his instincto theories into practice. This was why I was asking especially for help in the instincto section. Coming from a slightly different point of view from everyone else, do you have any input about adjusting my tastes to more meat and less fruit? And about why I am still getting acne? I was hoping there would be some other solution but it sounds like I might just have to cut out fruit and force myself to get my food from meats and fats until i start to like it.

Offline Haai

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2013, 02:20:13 am »
I haven't been eating dairy because I thought it was not paleo? I know some people eat it but I haven't tried it because I feel like I'm changing so many things at once that I wouldn't be able to tell if it was working or not.

In my opinion you are making a good decision not to consume dairy. Most paleo dieters do not consider dairy products as "paleo". Those that do argue that it is "paleo" believe that it may well have been consumed in very small quantities, and only for a short period each year (when female mammals nurse their young). I believe instinctos do not consume dairy products.
More importantly for your case, however, is that there is significant scientific evidence to suggest that the insulinotropic effect of dairy products can cause or exacerbate acne (and other diseases related to hyperinsulinaemia).
"In the modern, prevailing view of the cosmos, we sit here as tiny, unimportant specks of protoplasm, flukes of nature, and stare out into an almost limitless void. Vast, nameless tracts of emptiness dominate the scene. Talk about feeling small.
But we do not look out at the universe; it is, instead, within us, as a rich 3-D visual experience whose location is the mind" - R. Lanza, Beyond Biocentrism.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2013, 03:12:24 am »
Cherimoya kid - Interesting, I assumed that bananas were worse than grapefruits because they are grown in central america, while grapefruits are grown closer to my area, california or florida. Is there a reason that watery fruits are worse?

I don't actually know the real reasons for it, but this has been verified by a lot of people trying a fruitarian diet.  Watery fruits cause imbalances far faster than drier fruits, and the effect is most pronounced in colder weather.

You might do better with apples and pears, but don't continue to eat them if they cause any unpleasant symptoms. 

Some people find raw honey, especially the fermented raw honey from the Really Raw Honey people, to be a better source of carbs than fruit.

http://www.reallyrawhoney.com/category_s/44.htm

PaleoPhil, one of our members here, found this to be the one of the only carbs he could tolerate for a long time. You can special-order it at a local health food store.   

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2013, 03:58:22 am »
I like all the suggestions.  I would add to make transitions slowly,,, as in slowly replacing fruit for meat etc.  And hopefully you'll find foods that taste really good, and not force yourself to eat anything.  That can really put you in your head, and you're way too young for that.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2013, 10:00:40 am »
With issues like acne, it may be wise to try an elimination diet.

 I am personally biased against fruit so cant really give advice on what fruits to consume. Too much fruit will interfere with my ability to digest meat and animal fats. I stick to vegetables like tomatoes, and salad greens, and fruits like avocado and coconut. The lower in sugar the diet is the more the body will start to use and crave fats and proteins as the primary fuel source.

So if you want to find ways of being able to eat more animal fats then you may want to limit fruit intake.

I had acne bad as a teenager, eating a diet high in pasteurized diary, sugar, gluten, peanut butter , SAD food, etc.
I also had migraines and other issues, that were due to food intolerance, and dietary imbalance.

Accutane is bad stuff. The cleaners and topical treatments wont cure the underling problem, which usually stems from the liver being so overburdened breaking down elements within problematic foodstuffs that it cant properly break down the hormones that begin their surge around the teenage years. So the body flushes excess hormones through the skin causing the oil glands to clog and pimple up.

Sometimes its best to let nature do its thing, acne can be just one of those things that will clear up over time.

One thing that really helped me out was fresh air and sunshine, during the summer months I would spend all day outside in the sun getting tan, and my acne would clear up almost completely. The sun is great for helping clear up acne, the vitamin D produced in the skin revitalizes the detoxification systems of the body.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2013, 11:46:11 am »
With issues like acne, it may be wise to try an elimination diet.

One thing that really helped me out was fresh air and sunshine, during the summer months I would spend all day outside in the sun getting tan, and my acne would clear up almost completely. The sun is great for helping clear up acne, the vitamin D produced in the skin revitalizes the detoxification systems of the body.


Both good ideas.  My experience has taught me that acne either gets better with more fruit, or WORSE with more fruit. Fruit always plays a key role, one way or another.

Offline Dr. D

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2013, 08:47:54 am »
Fruit makes my acne flair up. Rinsing my face with raw ACV helps a bit though. YMMV.
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline jessica

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2013, 07:07:34 am »
if you can get past all the adverts for e-books, this website has a lot of information about healing acne through diet and lifestyle http://www.paleoforwomen.com/blog/

Offline lena

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2013, 11:11:18 pm »
UPDATE:
I have taken all your advice into account and my acne is improving rapidly! I'm really starting to like animal foods more too. I'm still learning to listen to my instincts to know what I need and when to stop, but I think it's getting better.

The past few days I've been eating:
3-4 egg yolks
1-3 pieces of fruit (bananas, or something more local, like pears)
sometimes some jicama
wild seafood (mackerel, tuna, or clams)
grass-fed muscle meat
1-2 marrow bones

Offline Iguana

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Re: need advice about raw paleo (especially instincto)
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2013, 01:46:12 am »
Great that you're getting rid of acne!

Iguana - Yes, I read GCBs book about a month ago from the link that was posted on this forum and have been trying to put his instincto theories into practice. This was why I was asking especially for help in the instincto section. Coming from a slightly different point of view from everyone else, do you have any input about adjusting my tastes to more meat and less fruit? And about why I am still getting acne? I was hoping there would be some other solution but it sounds like I might just have to cut out fruit and force myself to get my food from meats and fats until i start to like it.
Yes, beware of modern cultivated fruits, especially from conventional shops and supermarkets. Prefer  wild ones and small not nice looking or overripe ones, from example from abandoned orchards... No problem with vegetables, you can't eat too much of them because they've been selected to keep some taste after being cooked, so they have a very strong taste raw and they trigger a clear instinctive stop.

Some rough balance is rather automatic anyway: we feel when we have had enough sweet foods.

Wild seafood is great! How did you find good eggs? BTW, I relish  the delicious eggs I brought back from my former place in France on Sunday (ate 8 yesterday). A 2600 km trip... not only for eggs ;)  I brought meat too and a lot of stuff - windsurf gear, bikes, books and tools.  :)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 05:29:11 pm by TylerDurden »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler