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Title: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 17, 2017, 03:35:51 am
Coming from a vegan eating style (only raw fruits/plant foods vegan) for over a decade.

Usual lifestyle before this experiment:
Fresh vegetable juices (11-4 pm) and a raw meal at night (5-7 pm)  - fruit first followed by a raw soup or raw pasta, sometime raw nondairy coconut ice cream if I'd want dessert.
1-2x a week average I'd add in egg yolks and Or raw salmon or tuna.


I've repleaced my dinner meal of vegan foods with only raw fish - salmon (2nights) and raw tuna steak the other night. 3 days total. I still enjoy raw juices (no fiber)  when I want through out the day, I rarely felt hungry until late in the day so this is natural to me. All 3 nights dinners were 8 -9 oz raw fish each night with full fat mayo.

RESULTS- Felt completely satiated, no fiber "fullness" which was unusual , did not feel hungry before bed like I usually do, Slept nicely (improvement from vegan), woke up a little nauseous, no bowel movements in these 3 days ( felt ick left side of torso, not sure what eoykd have happened if I kept going, what's normal in that kind of raw but no fiber lifestyle of a female?) .


Followed this by :
night 1 and 2 to eating only fruits for dinner ( veggie juice in day hours). Helped bowels move, got rid of some fruit I'd have to toss if I didn't eat it 👍🏻 BUT Omg 😦 Up all night with gas, discomfort, could easily eat a snack before bed but did not bc I felt waterlogged and fiber-full...
day 3 (last night) I did a few oranges then a raw carrot soup. Still discomfort in intestines and not satiated nearly as much, gas and not sleeping well overnight.

I'm shocked at the difference of not eating fiber but more raw protein and animal fats does for this body of mind over all. I'm planning on going back to no fiber or very low fiber, but I'd like to have my bowels moving without issue if that's going to be more my lifestyle.


I have deer meat in the freezer and more raw sushi grade fish and our neighbors chicken eggs on hand.
* If I eat eggs for meal I'd like to have the  protein (whites) too BUT is that a disaster to poach the whites? I tried raw whites and gagged most times and it's not satiating raw either.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: surfsteve on July 17, 2017, 03:53:25 am
I eat plenty of fruit in my diet. I used to try and eat more fiber. I even supplemented with it but now I only eat as much fiber rich fruits and vegetables as I care for. I don't think there's any point in intentionally restricting fiber as if it was something bad for you. It provides places for good gut flora. On the other hand I didn't feel all that great when I was intentionally forcing more fiber upon myself than I wanted just because I thought it was good for me. It didn't help me to loose weight either. I think I crave more fruit since I stopped supplementing with fiber. I still juice oranges in my juicer with the skins on. Not so much for the fiber as for the additional vitamins and essential oils it contains. I think raw egg whites are gross. Maybe if I weren't getting enough meat protein I might eat them but I don't worry about throwing them away. Even my dogs wont eat them; so how good can they be?
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: TylerDurden on July 17, 2017, 04:03:18 am
Unfortunately, the more toxic and unhealthy one's lifestyle/diet etc. was prior to going rawpalaeo, the more likely one is to have to undergo various detoxes. Some RVAFers like to first undergo a long water-fast prior to going rawpalaeo, as they claim that helps the body get rid of toxins beforehand. Also, edible sundried (french green?) clay has helped some of us to detox the poisons out at a faster rate.

My own case was quite normal, and a little  similiar to your above example. I was in really bad ill-health for much of my life, with inflammation affecting virtually every part of my body(due to a slow-acting dairy-intolerance/allergy. In my 20s, I went cooked-palaeo but that failed to solve the awful stomach-aches I got from eating any cooked animal food, then I went vegan then raw vegan, then Fruitarian and finally Sproutarian over a total 5 year period or so, before finally going rawpalaeo. I first went on a fake-Instincto diet for 2-3 months of raw, albeit intensively farmed meat/eggs and supermarket plant food and similiar raw "junk" food, which had no effect. Once I went fully rawpalaeo, though, I suddenly got green diarrhea  in the first 2-3 days of being a RVAFer, forcing me to visit the toilet/bathroom every half an hour or less. After that, I would get mild detox symptoms(like a mild flu) every 2 to 4 months, lasting from 2 to 7 days, and these would continue for  the next 2 years, with them gradually reducing in terms of severity, duration and frequency until they stoped after c. 2 years. Of course, I still get minor detox symptoms if I eat any cooked foods, with me feeling like having a hangover if I eat more than a small amount, but this is reasonably rare. Some RVAFers report no initial detoxes, while others have reported initial detoxes lasting up to 6 weeks.

With a detox, generally speaking, one should feel slightly better after the detox than before the detox. Of course, negative symptoms might not be due to detox. For example, 2 of the biggest problems RVAFers have involve raw dairy and raw veggie juices. Many turn out to be allergic to raw dairy or develop nutritional deficiencies after consuming too much raw veggie juice(1 litre or more a day). In my own case, I bought a juicer after 3 years of going RVAF, and suddenly found that I got green diarrhea within half an hour of consuming any raw veggie juice(though freshly-squeezed fruit-juice was fine). Of course, everyone is different.

Other suggestions:- Avoid the, er  " full fat mayo"(  ???    ??? ???), try raw wildcaught seafood rather than  farmed fish like most salmon.

and:-

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/important-info-for-newbies/sticky-advice-for-newbies-wishing-to-slowly-ease-into-a-raw-animal-food-diet/ (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/important-info-for-newbies/sticky-advice-for-newbies-wishing-to-slowly-ease-into-a-raw-animal-food-diet/)
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 17, 2017, 04:25:05 am
I eat plenty of fruit in my diet. I used to try and eat more fiber. I even supplemented with it but now I only eat as much fiber rich fruits and vegetables as I care for. I don't think there's any point in intentionally restricting fiber as if it was something bad for you. It provides places for good gut flora. On the other hand I didn't feel all that great when I was intentionally forcing more fiber upon myself than I wanted just because I thought it was good for me. It didn't help me to loose weight either. I think I crave more fruit since I stopped supplementing with fiber. I still juice oranges in my juicer with the skins on. Not so much for the fiber as for the additional vitamins and essential oils it contains. I think raw egg yolks are gross. Maybe if I weren't getting enough meat protein I might eat them but I don't worry about throwing them away. Even my dogs wont eat them; so how good can they be?

Oh I love raw yolks, taste like creamy vanilla filling to me.

I think it's great what your doing, from my experience at least, it appears very balanced. I dont enjoy going to extremes, but living vegan then raw vegan maybe extreme ??!
I'm not sure how much fiber your getting a day from fruit and veg. Being a man your body will respond differently too.
I do juice more produce than I could eat (micronutrients 👌🏼) , for whatever reason I feel best on juices but I do enjoy eating to where living on juices doesn't appeal to me completely, social settings too I've got to consider.   
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 17, 2017, 04:32:26 am


In my 20s, I went cooked-palaeo but that failed to solve the awful stomach-aches I got from eating any cooked animal food, then I went vegan then raw vegan, then Fruitarian and finally Sproutarian over a total 5 year period or so, before finally going rawpalaeo.




and:-

[url]http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/important-info-for-newbies/sticky-advice-for-newbies-wishing-to-slowly-ease-into-a-raw-animal-food-diet/[/url] ([url]http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/important-info-for-newbies/sticky-advice-for-newbies-wishing-to-slowly-ease-into-a-raw-animal-food-diet/[/url])


Wow... sproutaterian! Were you starving?
I really enjoy reading your journal btw Tyler.
Yes, I'm going to have to figure out how to do wild salmon, it's not fresh enough here but I looked online a little bit ago and found places that ship sushi grade wild fish to your house 👍🏻
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: TylerDurden on July 17, 2017, 05:15:35 am
At the time, I was grateful for the fact that going raw vegan and then fruitarian stopped my extremely painful stomach-aches but the trouble was that these 100% no-animal-food-diets caused me to develop really powerful hunger-pangs where I would buy 5 to 7  kgs of raw organic fruit a day and still feel ravenously hungry afterwards.So, I read that sprouts contained much higher levels of nutrients than usually found in raw plant foods and I hoped that they would replace the nutrients I was obviously missing, along with the Klamath Lake blue-green-algae supplements among 50 other herbs/bach remedies  etc. I felt slightly better as a result but it didn't solve my hunger or my health-problems. I only went rawpalaeo as the only other remaining diet I hadn't tried was Breatharian and I wasn't quite that desperate at the time.

Another option is to search rawpaleodietforum on the main page search box to find others with similiar experiences  to see what worked for them.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 17, 2017, 05:22:33 am
At the time, I was grateful for the fact that going raw vegan and then fruitarian stopped my extremely painful stomach-aches but the trouble was that these 100% no-animal-food-diets caused me to develop really powerful hunger-pangs where I would buy 5 to 7  kgs of raw organic fruit a day and still feel ravenously hungry afterwards.

Another option is to search rawpaleodietforum on the main page search box to find others with similiar experiences  to see what worked for them.

Yes! I didn't realize how hungry I was until I tried this experiment with replacing my raw vegan meal with a raw animal meal. I've still got some mental hurdles (meat =acidic body etc...) to overcome.

I'm so greatful for this group, SO GRATEFUL!
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: surfsteve on July 17, 2017, 07:33:15 am
Oh I love raw yolks, taste like creamy vanilla filling to me.

I think it's great what your doing, from my experience at least, it appears very balanced. I dont enjoy going to extremes, but living vegan then raw vegan maybe extreme ??!
I'm not sure how much fiber your getting a day from fruit and veg. Being a man your body will respond differently too.
I do juice more produce than I could eat (micronutrients 👌🏼) , for whatever reason I feel best on juices but I do enjoy eating to where living on juices doesn't appeal to me completely, social settings too I've got to consider.

Sorry I love raw egg yolks too. I meant to say whites and went back and corrected myself. I like green vegetable juices but if I do to many of them I feel malnourished on them. Volume wise I eat pretty balanced between fruit, meat and vegetables, in that order but calorie wise most of them come from meat, in particular meat fat.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: surfsteve on July 17, 2017, 07:38:55 am
At the time, I was grateful for the fact that going raw vegan and then fruitarian stopped my extremely painful stomach-aches but the trouble was that these 100% no-animal-food-diets caused me to develop really powerful hunger-pangs where I would buy 5 to 7  kgs of raw organic fruit a day and still feel ravenously hungry afterwards.So, I read that sprouts contained much higher levels of nutrients than usually found in raw plant foods and I hoped that they would replace the nutrients I was obviously missing, along with the Klamath Lake blue-green-algae supplements among 50 other herbs/bach remedies  etc. I felt slightly better as a result but it didn't solve my hunger or my health-problems. I only went rawpalaeo as the only other remaining diet I hadn't tried was Breatharian and I wasn't quite that desperate at the time.

Another option is to search rawpaleodietforum on the main page search box to find others with similiar experiences  to see what worked for them.
I can identify with that. I've tried the same things myself. Even breatharian. It didn't last very long though. I was a vegetarian over 15 years  but I always felt better when I ate a little meat. I find I can eat and crave meat a lot more if it's raw. Still haven't learned to like it without the salt and spices unless it's in the form of a smoothie and even then I need to spice up tripe and kidney in order to get it down.

Though it may be coming. I am eating some steak tartare right now and it tastes over salted and over spiced to me. Guess it's time to cut back on them.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 17, 2017, 11:45:27 pm
Still haven't learned to like it without the salt and spices unless it's in the form of a smoothie and even then I need to spice up tripe and kidney in order to get it down.

Though it may be coming. I am eating some steak tartare right now and it tastes over salted and over spiced to me. Guess it's time to cut back on them.

Okay, what's the smoothie? I began to eat only plants when I was 14 yrs old bc meat just grossed me out- very mental but also the quality was factory farmed animals so no wonder I felt better without it.

isn't some salt needed if one eats animal foods, Or is that just low carb?

Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: TylerDurden on July 18, 2017, 12:21:29 am
There are natural salts in high-quality raw meats. Blood has a lot of natural salts in it. For some reason, I never got any benefit at all from drinking the blood available in my vacuum-packed raw, grassfed muscle-meats/organ-meats. However, whenever I had raw blood from raw wild game such as raw wild hare carcasses in vacuum-wrapped form, I would feel a tremendous, vigorous  rise in overall vitality , lasting for hours afterwards. Sabertooth also has lots of posts, extolling the benefits of raw blood and its natural salts/ingredients.

I gather that many herbivores, such as elephants etc., need to lick rock-salts etc. in order to get their needed salt-intake.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: surfsteve on July 18, 2017, 01:00:36 am
Okay, what's the smoothie? I began to eat only plants when I was 14 yrs old bc meat just grossed me out- very mental but also the quality was factory farmed animals so no wonder I felt better without it.

isn't some salt needed if one eats animal foods, Or is that just low carb?
A smoothie is usually made in a blender. I use a food processor to blend it up because the food gets in the bearings of my blender and causes friction in the bearings causing the food to get warm. I use factory farmed organ meats because that's all I can afford and have had excellent results from them.  I blend them with frozen chunks of meat and drink them ice cold.

Liver smoothie: One quarter pound slice of frozen liver and a half cup of water

Sweetbread smoothies: One quarter pound of frozen sweetbreads and half a cup of water

Heart smoothie: Same

I used to make tripe and kidney smoothies the same but now I add salt, pepper, lemon juice, cilantro and onion powder or minced garlic.

I used to make my smoothies with pineapple juice but found they gave me really smelly gas and bowel movements. Made the taste better though.

Sometimes I add raw apple cider vinegar to my smoothies.

Almost forgot. Rocky Mountain Oyster smoothies: One quarter pound of beef testicles, one half cup of water. Some hot sauce, minced garlic, cilantro, salt and pepper. Sometimes I make them with plain water. Sometimes I add raw apple cider vinegar.

I drink as much as 6 or 7 various smoothies a day. Lately I only been drinking an average of one or two a day. Feel better when I drink more of them!
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 18, 2017, 10:26:46 am
Thanks for sharing those smoothie recipes, they sound like what A.V. Use to make.

Thats the thing, I can only stomsch so much meat - that's why I end up back on all fruit after awhile if I add in too much too fast. It turns off my appetite for food at all.

Though right now I'm looking forward to going back to playing with only animal foods for my evening meal.
I'm not sleeping through the night on raw vegan dinners currently but I did get a significant download when I was awake in the middle of the night last night,,,,but those can wait to morning too if I'd just stop waking up like it's 7am when it's really 3am!!!

Tomorrow night I'm going to eat the avocados and see if that fat helps me sleep through the night like the sushi steaks did those 3 nights. 
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: surfsteve on July 18, 2017, 12:02:23 pm
Weird. I eat a lot of fruit at night and throughout the day and meat in the morning and afternoon. I used to only eat between the hours of noon and 8 pm and fast the rest of the day but since going raw I been getting pretty laxed on those rules.

I don't know what the ideal ratio you are seeking is. I been eating a lot of fruit because it's in season and really cheap right now. Especially watermelon because my kidneys were hurting earlier but as soon as the price goes back up I will probably quit buying it. I believe there is a good ratio I just don't know what it is. For one thing, are you asking calorie wise or volume? I guess you would have to establish that before you could establish an ideal ratio. Probably more than a ratio of fiber to meat is how you are getting that fiber. I don't eat grains and get all mine from fruit and vegetables. Mostly fruit lately.

Maybe it's not so bad only buying what's in season. That way I don't eat the same thing for too long. Like I said I mainly do it for economics.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 18, 2017, 11:08:31 pm
Weird. I eat a lot of fruit at night and throughout the day and meat in the morning and afternoon. I used to only eat between the hours of noon and 8 pm and fast the rest of the day but since going raw I been getting pretty laxed on those rules.

I don't know what the ideal ratio you are seeking is. I been eating a lot of fruit because it's in season and really cheap right now. Especially watermelon because my kidneys were hurting earlier but as soon as the price goes back up I will probably quit buying it. I believe there is a good ratio I just don't know what it is. For one thing, are you asking calorie wise or volume? I guess you would have to establish that before you could establish an ideal ratio. Probably more than a ratio of fiber to meat is how you are getting that fiber. I don't eat grains and get all mine from fruit and vegetables. Mostly fruit lately.

Maybe it's not so bad only buying what's in season. That way I don't eat the same thing for too long. Like I said I mainly do it for economics.

it looks like my body wants a shift so I'm trying new things since raw vegan the way I was doing it is not serving me anymore. End of January I started to play around with the master fast system/mfs ( grape juice and lemon along with some of Dr. Morse's herbs to assist body, I still had my fruit based dinner at nt  ). I used mfs to get myself off the holiday snacking I did on foods are usually don't eat. It was easy to transition back to my normal way of life which is juices all day with a big meal with the family in the evening .  But my meal has always been Raw and vegan -no grains whatsoever.  I used animal foods like a  condinment when I notice drawing towards them which is rare.
Ive never ever been a dogmatic vegan.

 I did melon island Lately (only eating various melons for a period of time -2-3 wks I went )  and I think that's what put me over. I realized Sleep was disturbed, it's like my energy was zapped! so I went to two dif Chinese acupuncturist (bc the first one was very rude ) but both of them, not knowing each other, diagnosed me the same way a "spleen QI deficiency . "

When I eat fiber lately I just feel waterlogged imediatly afterwards on melons or "full" on other fruits but not nourished👎🏻. I juice and I feel nourished👍🏻. I eat protein/fat (raw meat) I feel satisfied👍🏻.  I know all the fruity Internet people brag about their fruit bellies but really that's not comfortable even if it's just 30 minutes of it - I'd rather feel satisfied  and sleep well .  I sleep a lot less when I'm fruit-based which many think is a good thing but when the acupuncturist noticed right off that my sleep is disturbed too , I don't think that something I want to continue with.

I could eat several times a day a piece of fruit here and there (wai diet like) then fish for dinner but really I've done it before and it's distracting.  But I haven't given fruit juice, like you and your orange juice, a real chance to incorporate in with having a animal food meal in the evening .

 I haven't played with higher fats ( unfortunately there's not much protein in avocado) so I'll try that tonight.

Really, like your staying in season and not overspending on foods out of season, i'm just slowly emptying out my fridge of what I still have before I do this experiment again of juice in the day with a meat/fish meal for the evening.  I know myself I won't cut out fiber, at least not forever, but during my experimenting  and shifting I'm willing to play with just about anything .
 
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: surfsteve on July 19, 2017, 01:36:39 am
Maybe instead of trying to figure out a ratio it's all about balance. What works one day might not work under a different set of circumstances on another day. I think if it were as simple as sticking to a ratio or formula that we would have figured it out a long time ago and we'd all be healthy all of the time. But we are not. I am feeling good right now on an anti kidney stone diet but I suppose there will come a time when it will be doing me more harm than good!
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 19, 2017, 03:13:23 am
Maybe instead of trying to figure out a ratio it's all about balance. What works one day might not work under a different set of circumstances on another day. I think if it were as simple as sticking to a ratio or formula that we would have figured it out a long time ago and we'd all be healthy all of the time. But we are not. I am feeling good right now on an anti kidney stone diet but I suppose there will come a time when it will be doing me more harm than good!

Yes exactly - balance.

So you had kidney stones and the way your eating, even with all the meat, is helping?
My brother in law goes to the the hospital yearly for kidney stones, but he does a body builder type of diet usually (eats fastfood burgers etc...though) and if I told him to eat raw & fatty meat/organs instead hed never believe me nor want to believe it. 🤷🏻???
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: surfsteve on July 19, 2017, 03:44:00 am
I often wonder whether my high meat diet contributes to kidney stones. It probably does. But like you agree with. Balance is key. So I guess I just need to consume a lot more herbs responsible for dissolving them and more liquids to flush them out if I'm going to maintain good health on it. Especially living out here in the desert. I should be fine as long as I reduce my intake of them this winter or don't go to such an extreme that I deplete my body of minerals. I think the key lies in learning to recognize the signs and correct them in time. I believe, much like riding a bicycle or surfing this is something that needs to be learned on an instinctive level before you can accomplish.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 21, 2017, 03:29:17 am
I often wonder whether my high meat diet contributes to kidney stones. It probably does. But like you agree with. Balance is key. So I guess I just need to consume a lot more herbs responsible for dissolving them and more liquids to flush them out if I'm going to maintain good health on it. Especially living out here in the desert. I should be fine as long as I reduce my intake of them this winter or don't go to such an extreme that I deplete my body of minerals. I think the key lies in learning to recognize the signs and correct them in time. I believe, much like riding a bicycle or surfing this is something that needs to be learned on an instinctive level before you can accomplish.

Oh, I was under the assumption that bc you have your animal protein "raw" the kidney stones are no longer an issue or no longer forming?

I wish there wasn't so much bias (on various sides) on the animal food topic for humans and if it really does harm us when eating in certain quantities etc.... I'm sure cooked doesn't have the same results as uncooked foods regusrldss of what it is.

Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: TylerDurden on July 21, 2017, 04:16:28 am
Heat-derived toxins from cooking  such as advanced glycation end products are heavily implicated in kidney diseases:-

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016372581730044X (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016372581730044X)

There might be a possibility of eventual kidney-stone-formation for someone who has been  long-term on an 100% all-raw-animal-food-diet, if the relevant person was not adapted to it, but  for RVAFers in general it is not an issue.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: surfsteve on July 21, 2017, 05:32:52 am
To my knowledge kidney disease and kidney stones are two completely different things. I've read it's common to develop stones after detoxifying to rapidly because  the junk that is cleaned out of your body can get backed up in your kidneys and other organs. Looking back it's probably a good idea to detoxify kidneys and other organs first before starting any kind of cleanse. Probably a lot like starting out with an empty trash can before you go around cleaning your house. I would think that kidney disease would be more like having a hole in your trash can with trash constantly falling out and messing up all the cleaning you are doing.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 21, 2017, 07:06:17 am
TYLER - thank you for the link. I do remember that now about glycation, didn't link it to kidneys but the whole system and cancer.

I think your a great person to point me to viable research/info on the human species digestive system
 from mouth to anus and what's our true species specific diet based on that?  I know we're not herbivores from experience and common sense, but coniferous vegetables (?) even those seem not ideal unless we cook them and that's not natural either, fruits super easy in my experience, and do we in fact easily break down more than a few bites (quantity?) of animal organs, muscle meats,  fish, chicken and if meats what our systems are designed to eat is raw the only way it likes it etc... I recently heard Nora Gedgaudas interviewed on her new book and she stated our stomachs are designed specifically to be breaking down meats shown by the level of acid our stomachs contain.  Yet I've seen the the teeth argument that we have same teeth and intestinal length as frugavores (So only insects and by accident)   🤦🏻???🙉
Like you guys, I've had a long time of eating only plants, or fruits, or juicing
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: TylerDurden on July 21, 2017, 01:58:44 pm
I would state that we humans are omnivores. Granted, some people like the Inuit are genetically adapted to 100% all-animal-diets, but most, imo, do not thrive permanently on such a diet. Maybe some human ethnic types may thrive better on diets almost wholly vegan diets(Southern Indians?), but 100% vegan does not seem to work either.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: sabertooth on July 22, 2017, 12:26:12 am
  Yet I've seen the the teeth argument that we have same teeth and intestinal length as frugavores (So only insects and by accident)   🤦🏻???🙉
Like you guys, I've had a long time of eating only plants, or fruits, or juicing

Science has drawn the wrong conclusion in this regard...because many frugavore's especially when talking of our proto primate ancestors had originally evolved from insectivorian carnivorous tree weasels, that eventually became adapted to fruit heavy diets as they co-evolved with the fruiting trees....So if you go back far enough, fruit eating mammals evolved from carnivorous creatures who lived before a time the fist fruit trees grew.

We waxed and waned through our evolutionary history and from the most part we are true omnivores...but there seems to have been a dramatic shift away from the fruitarian heavy monkey way of living, toward the apex hunter gatherer meat based diet, that lead right up to the emergence of modern man.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 22, 2017, 03:08:13 am
 Thank you Tyler and Sabertooth.

I completely see that omnivores would likely be the conclusion based on our history as we currently see it.

 What I'm uncertain about is how many grams/oz of animal foods a day or week or month etc...(body weight and sex likly factor into it) is needed for body to "thrive?"

Have they ever done legit studies on that? 

There's so much propaganda/bias it's hard to know. I have gone by my body all these yrs but also my mind as of late bc vegans the cool thing now. I've  primarily been eating vegan most my life, I'm 41. i'm not dogmatic though, I've always just wanted to do what's meant for my body and so my experimenting with animal foods, the healthy animals, is minumum.  But like this experiment has proven to me I feel so much better eating raw fish than I do eating a bowl of fruit .


 
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 22, 2017, 03:11:36 am
^ likely because my protein intake has been fairly low since my protein usually comes from juiced greens .
 I know it's about balance since we are omnivores,  we don't have to eat mostly/only from one food group like  herbivores or carnivores.  But it seems like there would be some ratio involved in how our bodies are made ?
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: surfsteve on July 22, 2017, 06:07:57 am
According to this website:

10 to 35% of your calories should come from protein

20 to 35% from fat

and 45 to 65% of your calories should from carbohydrate
of which 14 grams per 1000 calories should be fiber.

http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/daily-amounts-carbs-fat-fiber-sodium-protein-4230.html (http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/daily-amounts-carbs-fat-fiber-sodium-protein-4230.html)

My diet is probably a lot lower in carbs,a lot higher in fat and a lot  higher in fiber.

Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 22, 2017, 11:13:23 am
According to this website:

10 to 35% of your calories should come from protein

20 to 35% from fat

and 45 to 65% of your calories should from carbohydrate
of which 14 grams per 1000 calories should be fiber.

[url]http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/daily-amounts-carbs-fat-fiber-sodium-protein-4230.html[/url] ([url]http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/daily-amounts-carbs-fat-fiber-sodium-protein-4230.html[/url])

My diet is probably a lot lower in carbs,a lot higher in fat and a lot  higher in fiber.


Yah mine too, well fiber and carbs but I'm playing with that and inceasing fat and protein.
So far This week I found my body does great on romaine - dinner salads with fat (egg yolks) and protein (poached whites) with nonsweet and acidic fruits. Tonight I did raw wild tuna in a big bowl of lettuce, cucumber, and papaya, do well see how I sleep. Nothing beats the dinners of only fish though - slept better than I had in years.

I was going to tell you if you weren't already familiar -Natures botanicals, Dr. Robert morse uses them in his clinic, are really good . I've used there "fab 4" - kidneys cleansing & strengthening herbs are in that kit, or you can buy them alone. They got my kidneys filtering.  doctor Christopher herbs that target certain areas Ive used and liked. doc. Christopher's are less expensive on Amazon with free shipping too. You may have already used these in the past, but in case you haven't - they are good.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: surfsteve on July 23, 2017, 01:33:05 am
I don't really go in for any prepared formulas. What's in it? I normally use individual herbs and spices.

I ordered ten pounds of ground beef kidney. It's extremely cheap. It seems to be very potent. Gives me lots of energy. Don't know if it's helping my kidneys. It seems to be; only instead of causing them to filter more my urine has gone towards the clear side from it. According to everything I've read when your kidneys are filtering your urine is dark and cloudy. I didn't expect the effect to be the opposite but I should have because it did that in the past to me. It also had the same effect on my dogs. I took small three or four ounce handfuls of the ground raw kidney and put it into bags. Then pressed them flat and put them in the freezer in still larger bags and labeled them. Been eating two small bags a day in smoothies.

I'm up to about six or more bags of various organ meats a day and am starting to feel like my old self again.

My joints hurt me when I did my cycling class the last two times so I did some reading. Aside from the usual glucosamine chondroitin and msm, TURMERIC was recommended. I used to use a lot of turmeric when I cooked chicken but gave it up when I went totally raw. I mixed some in a raw tripe smoothie this morning, along with lemon and pepper and it tasted surprisingly good so I think I'll start doing it in smoothies and see how it goes. I didn't think I'd like the taste but it surprised me. I don't know why I expected not to like it because I always liked it in cooked chicken and in rice. Who knew?
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 23, 2017, 02:37:31 am
SURFSTEVE - were/are you recovering from something? How are your adrenals? I know when my we're down meats really lifted me up/gave me energy, now they don't do that for me I guess bc my adrenals recovered.

Gods herbs/natures botanicals have an adrenal, and other organs to choose from, they are super super effective.  I got perathyroid and adrenal and I couldn't take them because they were so strong,  my gut feeling was because I'm such a tiny person that goes for me needs to be much smaller than a comes in, so a man likly really dies well with them if he needs it. You can look at the herbscin there herbal formulas here, https://www.ourbotanicals.com (https://www.ourbotanicals.com)

But I'm not sure what your doing, maybe you've already had your "cleansing" period ( you played around with Breatharianism so I'm guessing you've Soent time in the cleansing/detox diets- juices/raw vegan/fruitarian ) . Maybe your in the rebuilding/ replenishing  period?


Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 23, 2017, 02:39:38 am
Sorry I didn't check for autocorrect screw ups before I posted,  I hope you can read through that middle paragraph Okay.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: surfsteve on July 23, 2017, 04:10:11 am
Yeah no problem reading your writing. Knew what you meant.

No. I'm not recovering from anything. I might have had a kidney stone a few weeks ago so I am trying to build up my kidneys so that it doesn't happen again. All my life, even when I was 4 years old my back would hurt more in the kidney area than the rest of my body but I just attributed it to hard work and over doing it. Now I'm not so sure and am worried that my kidneys might be a weak link and have decided to focus on strengthening them. I find that eating raw kidneys have much of the same effect of eating raw adrenals. Perhaps because the adrenals are located right on top of the kidney. I think they are helping my kidneys too. I worked out hard yesterday and my whole body aches including my lower back but it does feel different. I don't know how to explain the difference though, just that it's different.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 26, 2017, 08:18:08 pm
So interesting Steve, there are so many different schools of thoughts on how do anything. I've not played with organ meats like you have so I'm excited to see what happens for you.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 26, 2017, 08:51:05 pm
The experimenting, recording so I don't forget what feels good and what doesn't.

 It's summer here so the fruits are very water rich, to much so for having such a small eating window that I enjoy eating in (4-7 or 8 pm), I drink nut milks & fresh juices in day as often as I like, sometimes I'll snack on grapes if I feel like it. 

Dinner - Fruit based -did not work! too much fiber & water.  Discomfort overnight, peeing, feeling hungry When I'd wake up to pee, etc...outside of apples I find summer fruits Ibs causing in me.

Dinner -salad based .  This actually work the best for fiber even adding an egg or two in with it doesn't seem to negatively effect digestion. Because I don't like to chew so much salad I pulse it through the food processor and add in non-sweet fruits and fats afterwards.  only drawback to salads is you end up in the bathroom quite often ,  although I know some find that a benefit .

Dinner-8 oz rawfish and green juice.  I just went back to this, I initially started this whole experiment bc I was plant based with very low protein.  For the most part I feel satiated eating  Protein dominant food for dinner,  i'm supposing because it's salmon I have plenty of fat already in the meat on top of adding a sauce I makewith mayo wasabi and seaweed flakes. Even though I end up having to pee overnight,  maybe once my body lets go of the excess water that proteins seems to do the trick for, I won't have to pee so much overnight ? Overall I feel good.  I know there's Poopoo and drinking Green juice, I do  Romain lettuce, celery, parsley, lemon juiced daily and feel great on it , adding this to my evening helps.
for an hour or so after I eat I do feel like I have a rock (of protein im sure) in my stomach. Probably need an adjustment period For this,  I have been taking a digestive enzyme sense this much protein is new to my system.   I have been eating 8 ounces of raw salmon in the sitting and I probably could eat more but the steaks only come that large and I'm still not sure how much protein our body can absorb in one sitting & what that depends on??

I have to add another plus to this dinner - I'm not a fan of high fiber from any source, it's left me so much discomfort for years eating vegan then raw vegan. My colon is so happy when I leave the fiber out which means I feel really good without it.  I'm sure I still get some fiber in my juices and fruit snack here and there but nowhere near what I used to eating plants/vegan.

 For some reason I still can't stomach (mental I know) eating raw meat at least enough of it  to be considered a Meal -  which I'm going for .  I'm buying some wild tuna today but the recommendation from the supplier is to cook it,  if you've ever bought tuna that doesn't taste great raw does searing it do the trick?


Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: surfsteve on July 27, 2017, 01:09:58 am
I don't know about raw but cooked tuna really messed me up. I loved the flavor of canned tuna but when I used to eat it for some reason my gums would bleed and I would ache. Fresh tuna was even worse. I read this is because they are caught closer to shore where there is more pollution.

Have you considered adding vinegar or lemon juice to your raw meats? That's the way I normally eat them. Probably makes them a lot easier to digest. I've always been under the impression that herbs and vegetables are the antidote to the toxins in meats. I've always eaten my meat heavily spiced even when I cooked it. Fruits I usually eat alone.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 27, 2017, 08:15:52 am
I like that idea! I think I could try that and like that with steak meat, citrus juice or vinegar. After I left this morning I actually was thinking I'd like ground meat tonight, maybe tomorrow bc I didn't pull anything out.


That's odd Steve, about the tuna and a darn shame! It's so YUM!
I picked up tuna steaks tonight from the fish counter at Sprouts to eat for my meal today. Thinking I'd have to  make it into ceviche or Sear it. Wow! No! It tasted great untouched, so sashimi it was. But my stomach is in shock still with protein/fat amounts. Drinking some ACV and taking digestive enzymes aren't doing it for me. Hope my body adjust soon to this, if I can break my meal into 2 sittings (4 pm and then 6pm with 3 to 5 oz at each) rather than one sitting I bet I ate 10 oz tonight overall 😲  (I eat slow to to try to help ) maybe the Rock in my stomach wont be there.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: surfsteve on July 28, 2017, 03:13:05 am
Yes. I seem to do very well on raw vinegar and lemon juice though the fact that I'm not hearing the same thing from others makes me wonder if I could be the exception and not the rule. It sounds entirely possible that your stomach problem might not have anything to do with whether your food is cooked or raw. If anything my stomach feels a lot better after going raw. I think raw fruit and meat are easier to digest though raw vegetables are much harder. I think they are good though because of two reasons. First they help push food through the gut and scrub it clean; and secondly they contain a lot of medicinal compounds; especially in spices and herbs not all of which are good, though even the bad ones might be good in small amounts, similar to the way many medicines are. It's all about balance. The dose makes the poison. Even water will kill you if you drink too much of it. I appreciate having this forum to record my posts and those of others so we can go back and see what we might have been doing right or wrong in the past as opposed to what we are doing now.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 28, 2017, 04:42:00 am
Well I try it when I try steak, I've never been a steak person though, it was soft enough like ground meat.

I do take her so tinctures still and make teas from dried herbs. I use to get colonics the first years I was raw and I could tell once I stopped eating raw veggies, even though they did what you notice too- help move  debris through the intestines, I didn't need colonics anymore to get all that fiber out.  Ha ha like you said it's all about the dose , even with food.

Which leads me to  something that is weighing heavy on me, now that I'm having to research food again esp meats/protein,  and maybe it's because keto is the latest fad. 🤷🏻??? BUT all I find are warnings on not over consuming protein...especially animal protein...AND especially in a meal.
Considering I'm only eating 1 (!!!!!) real meal a day aside from the fresh juice and Handful of grapes or apple (if needed) do I REALLY need to limit/ restrict myself if I feel fine having 50-70 grams of protein a night? 

 I'm not trying to be ketogenic, mabe that's why they have all these warnings out about extra protein in a meal turning into glycogen,  is glycogen going to age the body if you're not loading the fat in too?


I may have to start a whole Other post For this topic, i  haven't  found it discussed yet in the archives.
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: Pumkin on July 28, 2017, 04:44:51 am
🤦🏻???ugh sorry , didn't read through auto correct at top.

" i'll try the vinegar and lemon juice when I have steak.... I prefer ground meat over steak due to  Chew-ability  "

" I do take and herbs as tinctures ..."
Title: Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
Post by: surfsteve on July 28, 2017, 01:21:57 pm
You may be consuming less protein and more fat than you think. I was reading an article yesterday that claimed the majority of calories in meat come from fat even if it's still kind of lean. Try the vinegar or lemon juice on ground meat too. I use a pint of vinegar for every 8 to 10 pounds of ground beef heart when I make jerky. I like my raw steak tartare sliced up with the food processor. It has to be slightly frozen or it turns mostly to hamburger. Either way it's good.