Author Topic: Lex's Journal  (Read 522174 times)

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Offline lex_rooker

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Lex's Journal
« on: June 14, 2008, 01:54:49 am »
Here is a graph of my baseline blood glucose curve before changing the fat ratio.  I will add an updated graph soon for comparison.

Below the graph are also links to PDF documents showing my Blood Test Results for 2007 and 2008.  For the 2007 results I had been eating a 68%fat / 32%protein diet for a over 1 year.  The 2008 results I had been eating 80%fat / 20%protein for about 6 weeks prior to the test.  Almost all numbers improved.  Everything has improved dramatically since I started this adventure over 3 years ago, but especially since I started eating Slanker's grass-fed beef a bit over 2 years ago.  In 2005 cholesterol was 230, HDL/LDL ratio was 4.7, fasting glucose was 140.  From the blood tests you can see the on going improvement from eating grass fed beef for over 2 years.

Below I've added a PDF of my current 24 hour BG curve with comments.  Compared to the initial curve it is a rather dramatic change.



Offline lex_rooker

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Lex's Fat Ratio Experiment
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2008, 01:55:27 am »
A few months ago I was prompted to set up an experiment to see what would happen if I changed the ratio of fat to protein in my diet.  For the past several years my diet has been meat and fat only with a ratio (by % of calories) of 68% fat to 32% protein. My weight has been stable at about 160 lbs for almost 2 years.

I set a base line of Blood Glucose and urine Ketones and came up with the following results:
BG was about 95 just before my single afternoon meal
BG rose to about 120 over a 2-3 hour period after the meal
BG dropped to 106 and stayed there for about 18 hours
BG dropped to 95 about 2 hours before meal time

Ketones always measured between zero and Trace.

As of June 1st I changed the fat ratio of my food to 80% fat and 20% protein by adding addition suet to my meat mix.  I have a commercial fat analyzer used by meat markets to test the fat content of their ground beef so I'm able to measure the fat content of my mix fairly precisely.  After 2 weeks on this new diet I have the following results:

BG is now 80 just before my single afternoon meal
BG rises to about 96 over a 2-3 hour period after the meal
BG drops to about 87 by bed time
BG is usually about 80 upon arising in the morning
BG jumps to about 90 about an hour after arising
BG slowly drops to 80 and stays there for an hour or so before I eat.

Ketones have jumped sharply to Moderate (middle color band) and on occasion to Large (next to last color bad)
I also dropped 2 lbs in weight even though total calories have remained the same.

This morning for the first time my morning BG dropped to 75 and then rose to 80 about an hour after arising so it is clear that things are in dynamic flux.  It will be interesting to see what happens over time.

Also, you'll notice that my BG jumps several points in the morning even though I haven't eaten anything and won't eat again for another 9 or 10 hours.  The theory for this is that either the liver is dumping glucose to meet the needs of new muscle activity as I begin to move around for the day, or that the adrenals are signaling the body to break down body fat for the same purpose.  I expect that it is the breakdown of body fat as this would cause the ketones to rise (which they have) and release of glucose from the liver would not cause this rise in ketones.

I put this first post in the General Discussion area so people would see it.  I'll be making future posts on this subject to the Journal area.

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2008, 10:26:13 am »
What prompted this experiment in the first place was Gary Taubes lecture on obesity which can be found here:
http://webcast.berkeley.edu/event_details.php?webcastid=21216

During this lecture Taubes talks about what makes us fat.  He pointed out that scientists have known for some time that fat can't be stored unless alpha-glycerol-phosphate is available to create the trigliceride that can be stored in fat cells.  Alpha-glycerol-phosphate is created when carbohydrates are metabolized in the presence of insulin.  Insulin is primarily driven by eating carbs.  Pretty much it's

Eating Carbs creates insulin - insulin metabolizes glucose - alpha-G-phospahte is created - liver uses a-g-p to create triglicerides - triglicerides are then moved into fat cells.  Bottom line no a-g-p no fat can be stored, at least that's the theory.

Taubes also stated that 58% of protein can be converted to glucose, but didn't say how or when this would happen.  If this is true, then too much protein in the diet could cause a rise in insulin thereby creating a-g-p and causing fat storage.

My experience was that when I started eating this way I started with a higher fat content in my meat.  Initially my weight dropped to about 150 lbs but then I got lazy and stopped adding the fat to my mix.  Over several months my weight increased to 160 and then stabilized at that level.

I decided to test Taubes theory.  If he is correct, since I don't eat any carbs my only source for glucose is from protein.  If I reduce the protein and raise the fat to bring the calories back up, then less glucose would be produced and I should again lose weight even though calories stay the same.  Less protein means less glucose created, hence less a-g-p all leading to less fat.

Still early yet but this seems to be working just as Taubes expected.  My average blood glucose had been reduce by about 20 points since I made the change 2 weeks ago.  I've lost 2 lbs in 14 days.  Ketones went from less than Trace to Moderate which shows that body fat is being consumed.  I have no idea how far this will go but intend to stick with it for several months at least and maybe forever.

There is a minimum amount of protein that the body will always need and I can't go below that amount or my health will suffer.  This amount is between .8g and 1.4g of protein per KG of lean body weight.  for me this is about 85g protein per day.  This will produce about 50g of glucose and my final stable weight should be based on this amount.

Part of what was not clear in Taubes lecture, and no one else seemed to know, was if some portion of all protein eaten is converted to glucose or if this only happens in a metabolic emergency. The infamous “Bear” (Stanley Owsley) said this conversion only happened in metabolic emergency.  I’m finding that this is not true.

What I'm finding is that all protein eaten is converted to glucose at the rate of about 58%.  This was demonstrated to me by the drop in blood glucose levels when I changed my diet from 32% protein to less than 20% protein.

My original protein consumption was about 150g/day.  This converted to 87g of glucose and you could see my blood glucose level rise about 25 points over a three hour period and then it would decline to an average resting value over the next 18 hours or so before finally dropping to the original starting level a couple of hours before I ate my next daily meal.

When I cut the protein to 90g/day (I raised fat to keep calories the same) there is 52g glucose created and my blood glucose levels only rise 15 points before dropping back to the average resting value.

What is interesting is that the drop in protein from 150g/day to 90g/day is a 40% drop. The "calculated" drop in glucose manufactured from protein from 87g to 52g is a 40% drop.  The measured change in the rise of blood glucose directly after eating a meal from 25 points to 15 points is also a 40% drop - so all these numbers track exactly.

I keep very accurate records and measure my blood glucose every hour when I'm awake and every time I awaken during the night, and yes my fingers are shredded and painful but without doing this you'll never see these relationships.

Offline jamiedolan

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2008, 07:05:55 am »
"Taubes also stated that 58% of protein can be converted to glucose, but didn't say how or when this would happen.  If this is true, then too much protein in the diet could cause a rise in insulin thereby creating a-g-p and causing fat storage."

Lex, Thank you for doing this experiment and sharing the results with us.  It is very good to know.  I have long suspected that a portion of protein can be converted to glucose, but knew of no one that has tested the theory with such accuracy as you have. 
Thanks Again, Keep us posted on your results.
Jamie

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2008, 09:39:05 am »
Hi Jamie,
Yes it was a surprise to me too, when I found that a portion of any and all protein eaten is converted to glucose.  This goes against the conventional wisdom, but I suppose if you and I were "conventional" we wouldn't be members of cutting edge forums like this!

BTW, I know two other people that have done similar experiments and they had the same results.  Both are women so it is clear that gender has nothing to do with it either.  I'm looking forward to my annual doctor's appointment in mid July.  I will have much information to share with the good doctor.

Lex 

Offline Nicola

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2008, 06:58:52 pm »
I posted some questions to Dr. Groves; to find peace of mind but I don't think that I will ever find that - life would become to boring? I am glad, that we have people like Lex - working on a plan and keeping things simple and clear. We must not fear life - but respect :)!


Hi Nicola

It is quite wrong that carbs are needed to metabilse fats. This was a mantra developed in the 19th century. There is no basis for it whatsoever. If there were, how would Maasai and Inuit live? They don't eat any plant material at all, and, while they may get a little from the meat and milk they eat (glycogen and lactose), that's a tiny amount compared to the much greater amounts of fat they eat.

On the brain's reliance on glucose:

In the past was the belief that the brain couldn’t function properly without glucose. However, a study published in May 2003 showed that the brain can use ketones made from fats just as other normal cells do.[1] It was also shown nearly 70 years ago that ATP is delivered from the liver to the brain by red blood cells.[2] So there is absolutely no need to worry about the brain being starved of energy if we cut carbohydrates out of the diet.

References

1.     Takenaka T, et al. Fatty acids as an energy source for the operation of axoplasmic transport. Brain Res 2003; 972, 1-2: 38-43.
2.     Hockerts T, Hingerty D. Medizinische 1937; 289. Cited by Werner E. Mschr f Kinderheilk 1960; 1: 5.

Ketosis is not defined by ketone bodies found in urine; that is ketonuria. Ketosis is a condition where there are raised levels of ketone bodies (acetone, acetoacetic acid and beta-hydroxybutyrate) in body tissues. Ketone bodies are formed naturally from the breakdown of fats. As the calorific value of my diet is about 75% fat, I must be 'in ketosis'. The fact that I have one piece of fruit a day is not relevant.
 
Regards
 
Barry
Author: Natural Health and Weight Loss
Co-producer: Be Slim Without Dieting (Video / DVD)
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk
http://www.diabetes-diet.org.uk
http://www.cholesterol-and-health.org.uk


Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2008, 11:57:38 pm »
Nicola,
I have no quarrel with Dr Groves and his assertion that he is in ketosis.  My original post on the Saturated Fat Forum was just to point out that Dr Groves definition and Mary's definition of ketosis are different so you can't compare them.  Which one is correct?  Who knows - I certainly don't.  The best I can do is monitor the way I feel and adjust things accordingly.  If I find that something isn't going as well as expected then I'll make a change just as I found that I seemed to do better with some salt added to my diet.  Doing what works best for me is more important to me than following some strict dietary rules made by someone who doesn't really know any more about diet than I do. 

Mary, Kata, and I are doing experiments where we collect a lot of actual data (bg, ketones, etc) which we try to analyze to come to a reasonable conclusion.  We also make changes very slowly so that we have time to observe the more long term effects of a change - often weeks or months.  Most people just go by how they feel when they get up in the morning and have no actual data to back up what they say.  This is not to imply that Dr Goves falls into this category.  He is a professional and has many years of experience so I have no reason to doubt what he says.  I just have to know what his definition of the various terms he uses are before I can understand his point of view verses another person's point of view.  Also, you will find Dr Goves, (like Mary and Kata) is very consistent with his recommendations and advice.  Compare this to AV who changes his mind on things more often than I change my socks.

Hope this helps,

lex 

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2008, 12:14:09 am »
Summary of Lex’s Experiment After 2 Weeks

Baseline diet was 68%Fat/32%Protein (145gF/145gP) all from animal sources and followed for 2 years.  Diet changed to 80%Fat/20%Protein (195gF/90gP) from the same animal sources. Organ meats comprised approximately 20% of diet and any Carbohydrates would come from that source.  No supplements other than approximately 1g of salt added to food per day.  Only one meal is eaten in the late afternoon.  Food portions were adjusted to keep Calories consistent at approximately 2,000 per day.

                             68%F/32%P      80%F/20%P
                               Baseline            14 Days

BG Daily Avg                 106                  88
BG Hi/Low Range          90/120             75/105
BG rise after meal           25                   15
Urine Ketones              0-Trace            Mod/Lg
Resting Heart Rt            58                    68
Weight                        162                  159
BMI                            21.4                 21.0
%Body Fat(calipers)     11.09                10.77


Obviously the duration of the change is very short at 2 weeks so many of the measurements are quite dynamic where the baseline readings were very stable.

Average BG has dropped about 15 points.
Hi/Low daily BG range has dropped a corresponding 15 points
Ketones have risen dramatically from less than trace to large
Resting heart rate has also increased by 10 BPM
Small drop in weight and BMI as well as body fat.

Ketones stay consistently high and usually measure Large but will occasionally drop to Moderate sometime during the day.

Baseline BG curve was very consistent, rising after my daily meal to a maximum of about 120 then dropping to 106 for many hours before dropping to minimum low 90s just before next meal,

Current BG curve is very dynamic.  BG rises to a maximum of 105 or so after meal, then drops slowly through the night to a minimum usually in the mid to high 70s in the early morning, then rises and fluctuates between the mid 80s to low 90s throughout the day and then the process starts over again.

I eat at the same time every day and the high BG reading about 3 hours after my meal is consistently 15 points above BG reading taken just prior to eating the meal.  The reading before the meal seems to vary between 80 and 90 so BG tops out between 95 and 105.

Baseline BG rise measured 3 hours after the meal was 25 points.  The reading before the meal was usually between 90 and 95 so BG topped out between 115 and 120.

Comments would be greatly appreciated,

Lex

Satya

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2008, 07:17:47 am »
Summary of Lex’s Experiment After 2 Weeks
[snip]

Resting Heart Rt            58                    68

[snip]

Resting heart rate has also increased by 10 BPM
Small drop in weight and BMI as well as body fat.

[snip]


Hi Lex,

I hope you won't mind me quoting you in snippets as I have.  This resting heart rate rising has me intrigued.  Both numbers are nicely low, but I wonder if you feel any different with the higher RHR.  And then I wonder what your blood pressure is and how that has changed.  Do you have a cuff?  If not, I think you should get one or get it checked every few months or something.

Otherwise, I am fascinated by your report and consider the higher fat to be the answer to great health.

Oh, one more question: What is your activity level like?  I may have asked this before, but I won't assume anything.  Please include your basic exercise plan if you have one.

I will be reading your replies.  My sister is visiting for the first time in over a decade, so I may not be as quick to answer in the coming week or so.  However, I will exchange with you when I can and I thank you for reporting on these changes in diet and the resulting physiological changes.  Good stuff!



Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2008, 10:35:34 am »
Satya,

I understand from others that have converted to a very high fat diet, that the rise in heart rate is temporary.  The theory is that I'm dumping large amounts of fatty acids in the blood that weren't there when eating at the lower fat level.  The body will treat this as a windfall (just killed a woolly mammoth and have lots to eat for a few weeks then it's back to famine again) so it doesn't create the hormones to keep everything under control especially since high fat is not life threatening like high glucose is.  After a few weeks of high fat levels in the blood, the body will start to manage it better and the heart rate will return to its previous level and sometimes lower. They say the heart responds this way because fatty acids are the heart's primary fuel.   The higher heart rate does not bother me but I did notice it.

I don't exercise for the sake of exercise.  I do walk a good bit but again not exclusively for exercise.  It's just that I'd rather walk to the market, postoffice, bank, etc when I have the time.  I don't dawdle but then it's far from a power walk.  It's 1 mile to the nearest market and the postoffice is two miles away, therefore when I walk it's between 2 and 4 miles round trip.  I do this between 1 and 3 times per week.

When I started this dietary adventure 5 years ago my BP had crept up to 145/95.  For the past 3 years or so eating a paleo style diet my BP has stabilized around 110/70 give or take a few points.  I'll keep an eye on it and if I see any changes I'll add this to my "monitor" list.

Lex

xylothrill

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2008, 01:34:50 am »
Lex,

The first time I went zero carb I had a fast heart rate. I didn't measure it but it was definitely higher. I thought that was a symptom of sodium deficiency but you've convinced me that it was the fat-adaptation process.

I can't thank you enough for doing these experiments.

Craig

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2008, 10:30:39 pm »
Here is the 3rd week update on my fat ratio experiment.

                       68%F/32%P  80%F/20%P  80%F/20%P
                          Baseline       14 Days       21 Days

BG Daily Avg           106              88              94
BG Hi/Low Range    90/120        75/105        92/103
BG rise after meal      25              15              10
Urine Ketones        0-Trace       Mod/Lg       SM/Lg 
Resting Heart Rt        58              68              63
Weight                   162            159             159
BMI                       21.4            21.0            21.0
%Body Fat(calipers) 11.09          10.77          12.35


Average Dailly BG has risen 5-6 points to 93/94.  However, the daily BG high/low range has narrowed from a 30 point swing (75/105) to a 11 point swing (92/103). The rise in BG after a meal also continues to drop and is now about 10 points, down from 15.

Urine Ketones were running consistently at level 3 with an occasional dip to level 2.  They now swing between level 2 and level 3 throughout the day with an occasional dip to level 1.

Resting heart rate has dropped about 4 BPM from 68 to 63.

Weight has been fairly stable at 159 +- 1/2 lb.  However caliper measurements show an overall increase in body fat from 11.09% to 12.35% which is a 1.25% increase.  Since weight has been stable my conclusion is that some Lean Body Mass has been sacrificed.

Orignial Caliper measurements were Chest 6mm, Abdomin 10mm, Thigh 11mm
Current Caliper measurements are   Chest 8mm, Abdomin 12mm, Thigh 11mm

xylothrill

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2008, 06:01:45 am »
This is most interesting! So, if you weren't keto-adapted as you thought, I suspect your body was using it's own protein stores to raise its glucose to a more comfortable level. As you become more keto-adapted, you should be using more fat and less glucose which would then start sparing protein. I suspect this will happen when your BG levels off and your ketones drop.

Craig

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2008, 09:32:28 am »
Something is definitely happening.  Not sure if it's good or bad.  Today I felt horrible. Muscle weakness in arms and legs and the thought of food was not very appealing though I did eat my norm rations. In fact, my normal meat mixture was so unappetizing that I had to break it into 2 meals just to get it down. This is the first time this has ever happened to me when it wasn't connected with the flu.

I think I've heard that this is normal at about 5 to 6 weeks into a very high fat diet as the body adapts to burning fat and ketones rather than glucose. This is only my forth week, but I started from several years of a moderately high fat diet so it may have happened sooner.

BG is swinging between 75 and 105 every day. Ketones are very high at level 3 and twice yesterday I hit level 4!
Rather than using color references on ketones I'm designating T= Trace 1=Small 2=Moderate 3=First color patch of Large and 4= Darkest Color patch.

Hope things improve quickly as feeling this way is the pits....

Lex

xylothrill

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2008, 11:42:06 pm »
I hope this doesn't last long. If your ketones are still that high, it tells me your body's not utilizing them hence the muscle weakness.

Craig

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2008, 12:32:38 am »
I spent the better part of yesterday helping a friend take out two old trees in his front yard.  The chain saw gave up the ghost about half way through so we had to use hand saws - a lot of work.

I measured BG every 2 hours and it stayed consistently between 94 and 98.  Ketones remained very high and ran between level 3 and 4.  If I interrpret this correctly, I'd say my muscles are still using glucose as their preferred energy source, and that internal fat was burned when necessary to create glucose.  This created excess ketones which showed up in the urine as the body didn't need them.

I'm very tired this morning.  Had difficutly getting up.  I slept about 10 hours, and would love to sleep some more but just have too much to do.

Lex

xylothrill

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2008, 07:22:29 am »
Lex,

That sure sounds like what I went through keto-adapting but I was getting much better after only two weeks. Don't quote me but I think it's two weeks to keto-adapt and then longer, maybe the 5 - 6 weeks you mentioned before, to adapt to using free fatty acids themselves.

Getting glucose from fat is very inefficient. Have you dropped any more weight than the three pounds? It's a possibility that your body is using ketones but hasn't yet honed its ability to produce them efficiently and is over-producing them just to be safe - until your body adapts and is able to use them or FFAs efficiently.

It could be the other way around with your body producing the precise amount of ketones needed but your muscles aren't able to use them up efficiently, resulting in tiredness and excess ketones in the urine. The energy is there, just not usable yet.

I would show high ketones after exercise even after I was adapted (after the two weeks). I'm not sure about now though. I haven't measured ketones after exercise in quite a while.

I wonder why it's taken you this long to get to this lethargic point. You couldn't possibly have had three weeks worth of glycogen stores...unless maybe you were already partially fat-adapted. I don't know what to make of it. 

Re your fat caliper readings, it looks to me like you were not using muscle for your glucose production during the second week but burning fat as your weight and body fat % went down. The third week, your fat % went up at the same weight. Wouldn't that only happen if you were catabolizing muscle and perhaps turning some of that protein-derived glucose into fat?

This is all very perplexing! Thanks for hanging in there and I hope you start feeling better sooner than later.

Craig


Offline wodgina

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2008, 10:46:40 am »
hey

Lex, I'm really enjoying your journal. So very interesting especially when you come up to the 6-8 week mark.

I'm 3 weeks in and a few times I've been disgusted by meat and fat and lost my taste for it. I felt really bad at the 2 week mark (really down, now energy and felt sick) I cracked once and had some carbs, I felt better immediately and interestingly my taste for meat came back.

I'm sleeping alot also. I've been sleeping up to 9 hours a night which is 2 hours more than normal. I don't think this will last though.

Andrew

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Albert Camus

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2008, 01:06:45 pm »
Craig and Andrew,
Thanks for the feedback.  Let me try to cover some of the areas that you both outlined in your responses.

Have you dropped any more weight than the three pounds?

No, I seem to have stabilized at about 159, however, lean muscle has apparently been sacrificed to create glucose which then raised insulin high enough at times to create fat.  I started with caliper readings of Abdomen:9mm Chest:6mm Thigh:11mm.  The readings are now Abdomen:12mm Chest:7mm Thigh:11mm.  As you can see I've added belly fat.  Not much, but to me it is noticeable.

It's a possibility that your body is using ketones but hasn't yet honed its ability to produce them efficiently and is overproducing them just to be safe - until your body adapts and is able to use them or FFAs efficiently.

My understanding is that the muscles can use both FFA's and Glucose but not ketones until they've adapted and this means sacrificing Fast Twitch muscle fibers (the kind that grow when you exercise), for Slow Twitch muscle fibers.  The slow Twitch must also adapt by adding significantly more mitochondria to efficiently process ketones and also build a denser capillary structure to better supply the fuel in real time as ketones can't be stored like glucose and ffa's.


It could be the other way around with your body producing the precise amount of ketones needed but your muscles aren't able to use them up efficiently, resulting in tiredness and excess ketones in the urine. The energy is there, just not usable yet.

Probably and over simplification but something of this sort is what seems to be happening.  I'm told that the body adapts in stages.  The brain adapts first and begins using ketones for a little more than half its energy requirements.  Under normal conditions it will use about 5g of glucose per hour.  When keto adapted it used 2g glucose per hour.  However, even though the brain has adapted the muscles will still use glucose if it is available as their conversion is much slower as a new infrastructure must be built to support it (mitochondria and capillaries).  This starts immediately, but takes several weeks to transition.


I would show high ketones after exercise even after I was adapted (after the two weeks). I'm not sure about now
though. I haven't measured ketones after exercise in quite a while.

If the muscles are adapted then ketones will most likely drop immediately after exercise as they were used up.  However the body will continue to create them for while even though the immediate demand is gone so they will again show up several hours later.  Within a few hours all should be back to normal.  This is why you will see variations in ketones once fully adapted.  It will be ketones that will vary as energy needs vary and glucose will now become very stable - exactly the reverse of the "normal" glucose driven metabolism.


I wonder why it's taken you this long to get to this lethargic point. You couldn't possibly have had three weeks worth of glycogen stores...unless maybe you were already partially fat-adapted. I don't know what to make of it. 

My best guess is that my brain adapted early on, however, I was eating enough protein (about 150g/day) to supply the glucose necessary for the muscles.  During off-times glucose was manufactured by converting 58% of the protein into glucose.  This was stored in the muscles as glycogen and then as glycogen reserves in the liver as well.  Since I don't workout, this was plenty of glucose to fuel my normal activities.  Once I went to 80% fat, protein dropped to about 70g/day and the muscles were forced to start adapting once their glycogen stores were gone and the liver had used up its reserves.

I'm 3 weeks in and a few times I've been disgusted by meat and fat and lost my taste for it.

This just happened to me recently.  Of course it took a while to really enjoy my meat/fat diet but after a year or so I really started looking forward to each meal.  It's just in the last few days that I've really wanted a carb and meat and fat just didn't appeal to me.  I've held strong and stuck with my prescribed food rations, but have on a couple of occasions had to eat two separate meals about 6-8 hours apart to get it down.

I felt really bad at the 2 week mark (really down, now energy and felt sick) I cracked once and had some carbs, I felt better immediately and interestingly my taste for meat came back.

Again, this is new for me.  I never really felt bad or rundown even in the beginning several years ago.  I think this is due to the relatively large amount of protein I was eating which supplied the glucose my body needed.  A younger person would probably have it the wall because their activity level is so much higher.  Though I walk a good deal I don't do any intense workouts or training of any kind so the 80-90g of glucose was enough  since my brain did convert early to ketones and didn't require much of the glucose.

I'm sleeping a lot also. I've been sleeping up to 9 hours a night which is 2 hours more than normal. I don't think this will last though.

I've always slept about 7 hours.  Sleeping 10 and still wishing I could stay in bed is a bit depressing.  Oh well, with perseverance this to shall pass,

Lex

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2008, 11:21:48 pm »
Here is the 6th week update on my fat ratio experiment.

                       68%F/32%P  80%F/20%P  80%F/20%P  80%F/20%P
                         Baseline       14 Days       21 Days       42 Days

BG Daily Avg           106             88              94              92
BG Hi/Low Range   90/120       75/105         92/103        80/100
BG rise after meal      25             15              10               6
Urine Ketones       0-Trace      Mod/Lg        SM/Lg      Trace/Mod
Resting Heart Rt        58             68              63             60
Weight                   162           159             159           165
BMI                         21.4          21.0            21.0          21.8
%Body Fat(calipers)   11.0          10.7            12.3          13.9
BP                       110/70       106/68        105/67        98/63

Average Daily BG has dropped a couple of points to 92.  The daily BG high/low range has expanded a bit from a 10 point swing 21 days ago (92/103) to a 20 point swing (80/100). The rise in BG after a meal also continues to drop and is now about 6 points, down from 10. I now see the bigest change in BG in the early morning.  Upon arising it is usually around 80/82 and then rises about 10 points into the low 90s where it stays much of the day.  After eating it rises to between 96 and 98 and on occasion reaches 100.

Urine Ketones were running between level 2 and level 3 throughout the day with an occasional dip to level 1.  Now they are about level 2 upon arising and then quickly drop to between Trace and level 1 throughout the day.  Not sure what this means.  BG has dropped a little but ketones have dropped significantly.  Not sure if I'm using then or just not creating them.

Resting heart rate has dropped slightly over the last 3 weeks from 63 to 60.  I was asked to track BP so I've added that to the chart.  As you can see it has dropped slightly as well.

Weight has surprised me my going up from 159 to 165, a gain of 6 lbs.  Unfortunately caliper measurements show that all of this weight increase is body fat which rose from 12.35% three weeks ago to 13.91% this week which is a 1.56% increase. 

Original Caliper measurements were Chest 6mm, Abdomen 10mm, Thigh 11mm
Caliper measurements at 21 days    Chest 8mm, Abdomen 12mm, Thigh 11mm
Caliper measurements at 42 days    Chest 9mm, Abdomen 14mm, Thigh 13mm

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2008, 11:44:50 pm »
Wow!  Lookin' good Lex.  I wouldn't worry too much about the body fat with the rest of your numbers looking so good.  I think I was the one who asked about BP, and you are definitely lowering it (not that you really need to, but...).  How are you feeling?

Satya

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2008, 11:50:59 pm »
Hey, btw, if you ever want your journal posted on rawpaleo.com, lemme know.  It might be nice to create a separate journal page and crosslink with your testimonial.

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2008, 01:49:10 am »
Satya,
What has surprised me is that things are still so dynamic after 6 weeks.  There has been significant movement in one or more of the parameters in each 3 week period.  BG seems to  be continuing a slow decline as are Ketones.  Not happy with the rise in body fat but this could still change.  The question is will it be for the better or worse, and only time will tell.  I actually prefer the 68/32 mix better but will stick with the 80/20 protocol until either stable or my promised 4 months is up - whichever comes first.

What I post on these forums is public information and you are free to cross post or use the information in any way that you think would be useful.  If you'd like to link to my testimonial on the main site feel free to do so.

Lex

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2008, 07:07:02 am »
Great job Lex! Are you feeling any better now?

If you're gaining your weight back(and then some), I don't think the ketones are being wasted. If you're feeling more energetic, I'd say that you're using them. If you're still lethargic, I'd say you're body is making less of them.

I'm really surprised at your continued fat% and weight gain.  One thing to consider is that you don't have to eat as much when 80% fat than 68% fat since only 58% of protein is turned into carbs. In other words, if 100g of protein yield 400 calories and only 58% of those 100g are turned into carbohydrate, that means you're only getting 232 usable calories per 100g of protein. That's assuming you aren't using any of that protein as building blocks. This may explain your wanting to refuse food. You're getting more usable calories now than before.

I've calculated your lean weight and fat weight according to your measurements and it looks like your lean is now coming up as well as your fat weight:
Lean/fat
144   18 - Baseline
142   17 - 14 days
139   20 - 21 days
143   23 - 42 days

I'm VERY curious to know how this will pan out. Somehow, I think your body is storing those extra usable calories as fat and that your lean body mass is returning to normal as a result of your body's switching away from protein catabolism (or carbs from protein in general) as a your primary fuel source. Am I out of my mind or does it sound plausible?

I think it'd be a great idea if Satya but your journal up on Raw Paleo!

Craig




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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2008, 01:20:27 pm »
Craig,
I've had a lot of comments on other forums and several have encouraged me to change my protocol.  Things like add more carbs, reduce the fat, divide my daily food into several meals etc.  I actually tried to eat twice a day but just wasn't hungry and even got so I dreaded meal time so I went back to one meal per day.  I'm also concerned about changing the protocol before everything is stable again.  After 6 weeks parameters are still changing significantly.  I think we'll all learn more if I stick to what I started with (80/20 fat/protein ratio with one meal per day) until the dust settles. 

I also had my annual blood test last week. I expect to get the results sometime mid next week.  It should be interesting to compare it with last year when I was eating a leaner diet.  My doctor knows what I'm doing and is concerned that the lipids (cholesterol) will be off the charts.  I also took my own BG reading just before and after they drew blood and both of my readings were 90.  I'm very interested to see what the lab says my BG is.

I'll post old and new blood results when I get them.  I may also do an updated average BG chart so people can compare where I am now with where I started.  Nothing like a few test results and graphics to liven things up a bit.

Lex