Author Topic: Yuri recovery  (Read 143821 times)

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Online TylerDurden

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2008, 07:32:54 pm »
How about taking the herb  licorice? It's supposed to be useful for adrenal fatigue.
Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error. Marcus Tullius Cicero

Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2008, 07:37:57 pm »
Are you taking raw thyroid as well as raw adrenal?

Have you seen a doctor re all this, yet? I mean if it's truly dangerous and  adrenal-related,  such as with addison's disease, it's absolutely essential  to get cortisol injections. Though, it'sunlikely to be  as severe as that.

Also, the thing with adrenals is to avoid over-stimulation(alcohol/violent exercise etc.) in general, as that weakens the adrenals.

What concerns me is that you've made multiple changes in your diet and you're still facing issues. This suggests to me that you may have some condition that either isn't diet-related at all  or is related to some long-term nutritional deficiency which you've overlooked. Is "high-meat" effective re digestion-issues? I take it my past suggestion re enzymes didn't work for you? What about adaptogenic/stress-relieving herbs like siberian ginseng, schisandra, astragalus etc.? I'll admit these herbs were useless in fixing my health-problems pre-rawpalaeo diet, but I was in a Raw Vegan/fruitarian phase for most of that time, so they might work on a more healthy RAF diet.

I do apologise re my previous suggestion re Intermittent Fasting as it failed to work for you. I'm now more careful to warn against doing IF if one happens to have  adrenal-related issues - (though, contrariwise, IF did work for me pretty well when I switched, early on in the diet, from eating all through the day to 1 large meal a day, despite my own adrenal-related issues at the time).

I take it you were 100% healthy prior to doing raw vegan, or am I wrong re this?

I don't take thyroid because, as it was pointed before, adrenals should be adressed first.

When I was in the hospital with kidney stones I tried to ask doctors if I had adrenal fatigue. It seems they heard it from me for the first time.

Now I supplement with Isocort, the freeze-dried adrenal cortex extract and it contains some cortisol naturally. I think no any additional herbs are needed.

Currently I have some "high-meat" in the fridge. I'm hesitant whether to consume it or not. I think that maybe a person with weak health like me won't benefit from it at all. And as I remember from the past I didn't benefit from it in terms of increased energy etc.

As for the enzymes I can't find them here. I think I have to order them from abroad. I am gonna look some online sources.

Yes, it may be true that I have a rather serious health issue which cannot be helped by diet alone or is harder to overcome. Maybe I have chronic kidney disease? Maybe meats are bad for me? Maybe i still suffer from high in purines organs and marrow? As soon as I get the opportunity to check whether I have the reoccurrence of stones I will know for sure whether meats or zero-carbing were to blame back then.

I think yes, I was healthy before vegan diet. I mean, it wasn't perfect, but I was a good soccer player, exercised and spent all nights long with females ;)

From the very first day of my life and till 23 I was living off of carbs mostly. Our local traditional diet is bread, potatoes (second bread), different porridges, little vegs, rare fruit in the season and occasional meat. Fat is usually derived from sunflower.

When I started raw animal food diet, i.e. Primal Diet with plenty of dairy, honey and some fruits, I improved tremendously as compared to my previous raw vegan experience. After a mere 4 month on that diet I was able to enjoy my life once again. Then happened something which wrecked my recovery and put me a long way back. I can only think of two things:
1)parasitic invasion
2)Intermittent fasting

I think that I might have got infected with parasites on raw meats diet. But I wonder why I was feeling better after four months on raw meats... If parasites were to blame, I would have probably suffered from a start.

And, what is most interestingly, my downhill began when I started to eat only once daily or even once every other day. I did change little in my diet at that point. I eliminated dairy and increased organ meats consumption. I stopped honey and only ate a piece of fruit daily. But what was changed that was my eating pattern.
My assumption is that a practice of infrequent eating caused too much stress both mentally and physically, slowed down metabolism which affected my thyroid and finally worn out my adrenals which were under pretty much stress even before that.
You don't have to apologise, we make our own choices and we are responsible for them. Clearly, IF works for some. But it appears not for all.

sincerely

Yuri
« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 07:39:49 pm by rawlion »
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Offline wodgina

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2008, 07:47:07 pm »
My first thought from the start was that your symptoms sound stress related but I would get a check up with a Doctor just to make sure there is nothing serious.
1) If you had candida and after no carbs for a few days you would definitely know about it. Eating 1 kg of cabbage a day would be hard work both mentally and physically. I doubt you have candida.
2) Stress can have huge impact on your body. Chronic fatigue, head aches, brain fog etc
3) I would quit my search for a diet related cure if I was you, this could be adding to the frustration. You've tried everything by the sounds of it. You diet is exceptional you should not be getting sicker.

I worked with a guy who after years and years of pressure of working with our tyrant of a boss (this is no under statement)  slowly got sicker and sicker until he ended up in emergency with his organs shutting down (he was only 29 years old) he was in serious condition,  after a few day in hospital he declared he would quit his job it was 'killing him'  from that point on he completely recovered. He was good guy, excellent worker and ended up getting  better paying job.

Please disregard my thoughts if you believe that I'm way off the mark.

Andrew





“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2008, 08:21:45 pm »
I cannot but agree.

And I also tend to believe that stress is the main contributing factor. But I cannot quit the job like that guy did. I would have to quit my life... And my unsuccessful dietary attempts only add to the overall stress.

I am now in serious doubt that my new anti-candida approach is optimal. Basing on the results I have got after one month I have yet to see why fruits, honey and dairy are inferior to vegetables. The plant foods contain way too much toxic substances and are unsafe if eaten raw, as opposed to mentioned controversial foods.

Yuri
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Online TylerDurden

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2008, 08:26:07 pm »
What I find odd is that adrenal fatigue sites often mention that animal-foods are badly digested by adrenal fatigue-sufferers, but then recommend cutting down on carbs as they overstimulate the adrenals, apparently. This doesn't leave much of a choice. Fortunately, for me, early on in the diet, I found that raw meats, especially raw organ-meats, involved no problems with digestion, unlike the cooked meats.
Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error. Marcus Tullius Cicero

Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2008, 08:47:29 pm »
Yes Geoff, that is just what I was thinking about recently. It appears to be a catch-22 for adrenal sufferer. Meats are important but cannot be digested... And I think that the EM will not be effective enough in this situation. It is necessary to take Digestion enzymes, i.e. Ultimate Digestion Formula, Peter Gillham's Natural Vitality. It is cheap at 5-10$ but shipment to Ukraine is hard to find.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 09:08:25 pm by rawlion »
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Satya

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2008, 09:23:01 pm »
Here's a great article on adrenal function:

http://www.westonaprice.org/archive/tintera.html

Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2008, 09:32:10 pm »
Thanks Satya!

I have heard about SP. But keep in mind that I live in Ukraine and cannot get prescription for them (as far as I know SP supps require prescription). Besides, if I manage to find them somehow in the web, the problem with delivery would still remain.

As regards my weight... This is another story. As you may know from my pictures I was pretty skinny after vegan setback. Over the first four months on the Primal Diet I added a massive 60 lbs of weight (from 110 to 175 lbs). As I said earlier it was mostly fat gain. But I couldn't have though it might have been from hormonal imbalance. I was loosing extra weight easily on intermittent fasting. I fluctuated between 140 and 145 lbs. But I was perplexed by the remaining stubborn abdominal fat. Now I realize that adrenals/thyroid might have its role there as well.

As of now, I cannot loose an ounce no matter what. And despite this is not my goal, I just state the fact. My weight is stable at 155 lbs. And it sits mainly around my waist and hips. Another indication of weak adrenals…

Yuri
« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 10:19:48 pm by rawlion »
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Offline wodgina

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2008, 09:54:40 pm »


And I also tend to believe that stress is the main contributing factor. But I cannot quit the job like that guy did. I would have to quit my life... And my unsuccessful dietary attempts only add to the overall stress.

Yuri

That was just an example of what stress can do to a healthy person. I'm not recommending you quitting your job unless it's making you ill.
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Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2008, 10:19:19 pm »
Who knows, with my present state of health I may have no option but to retire early... And it seems that the time is not far off when it happens;)
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Offline boxcarguy07

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2008, 10:30:18 pm »
Yuri, you mention digestive enzymes...
There is a product called Vitalzym that I've seen touted on other message boards as being extremely effective.
It is rather expensive though, but I'm pretty sure you could get it shipped to Ukraine.

I don't really know anything about this supplement other than people saying that it works very well, but I thought I'd just let you know about it.
Cheers!  :)

Satya

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2008, 10:33:55 pm »
Thanks Satya!

You may now delete that personal info.

I have heard about SP. But keep in mind that I live in Ukraine and cannot get prescription for them (as far as I know SP supps require prescription). Besides, if I manage to find them somehow in the web, the problem with delivery would still remain.

As regards my weight... This is another story. As you may know from my pictures I was pretty skinny after vegan setback. Over the first four months on the Primal Diet I added a massive 60 lbs of weight (from 110 to 175 lbs). As I said earlier it was mostly fat gain. But I couldn't have though it might have been from hormonal imbalance. I was loosing extra weight easily on intermittent fasting. I fluctuated between 140 and 145 lbs. But I was perplexed by the remaining stubborn abdominal fat. Now I realize that adrenals/thyroid might have its role there as well.

As of now, I cannot loose an ounce no matter what. And despite this is not my goal, I just state the fact. My weight is stable at 155 lbs. And it sits mainly around my waist and hips. Another indication of weak adrenals…

Yuri

Yuri,

Take the herbs Tyler recommended.  Licorice root comes as a tea sometimes.  I do know that Dr. Ken Taylor (the local doctor from Dallas TX) says to be careful about taking too much of the ginseng.  Take it, but he has told me (yes, I have had minor adrenal issues) that it will make you feel good, and then you take too much and suffer.

Don't worry about the weight now.  But why do you feel you need carbs anyway?  How about a high fat diet with moderately low protein?  I am not suggesting zero carb, but perhaps less carbs will help the adrenals heal?

Thank you for sharing.  I wish you all the best in repairing your health by the least invasive means possible.  And you are a true friend.  Did you know you are helping me?  I can be a bad girl and drink coffee, which is the one thing that has caused me adrenal fatigue.  And I just read that article on the glands to my kids, as they have been known to eat the high carb crap, until very recently.  So thank you.

Get well!

Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2008, 10:51:47 pm »
Thanks for the Vitalzym suggestion. I will see if I can get it shipped here.

I think this one is also a good source, but unfortunately they don't ship internationally. http://www.radiantlifecatalog.com/prod.cfm/ct/2/pid/1065

I don't know if I need carbs at all. Over the last weekend I didn't eat any, I just took a rest from plants. I say I have tried everything you can imagine but still failed to notice any improvement whatsoever... What do you mean by saying less carbs? 10? I consume about 20-30g these days.
Even tomatoes taste way too sweet to me... I don't eat much...

Yuri
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Offline Nicola

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2008, 02:45:31 am »
Hyponatremia:

Salt balance is also controlled by our adrenals, which use the mineralocorticoids (hormones) to maintain salt (electrolyte) balance. They control the reabsorption of sodium and the secretion of potassium from the renal tubules. Persons avoiding salt will experience low blood pressure, dizziness, chronic fatigue, poor digestion and hypoadrenal function. Their digestive problems come from the lack of HCl, which we stated would cause deficient mineral absorption. Fatigue sets in when the adrenals become exhausted and anemia may result from deficient absorption of iron caused by the lack of HCl. Their ability to make energy (ATP/ADP) is hampered by the lack of essential minerals (ions) needed for activation of enzymes. Avoidance of salt will create all of these problems in time, because salt is (despite other claims to the contrary) essential to life. Persons who avoid salt will suffer fatigue, poor digestion, low blood pressure, and possibly anemia.

http://www.pensgard.com/nutrition/13_Salt_Good.htm

Nicola

Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2008, 02:42:00 pm »
Hi Nicola

Thanks for the info.

I know about correlation of salt, adrenals and digestion. I was thinking about that as well. For this reason, since the end of April, I have made several attempts to incorporate salt back into my diet. Each morning I used to drink a cup of water with added teaspoon of sea salt. I even went as far as consuming some raw bovine blood. However, after a while, I stopped doing that.

As of now, I usually don't have any salt at all. But recently, when I tried eating sauerkraut in large amounts, I experienced strange reaction from extra salt in it. My face and eyes became puffy and eyes were swelling somewhere from the inside.
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Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2008, 03:01:19 pm »
Yuri,

Thank you for sharing.  I wish you all the best in repairing your health by the least invasive means possible.  And you are a true friend.  Did you know you are helping me?  I can be a bad girl and drink coffee, which is the one thing that has caused me adrenal fatigue.  And I just read that article on the glands to my kids, as they have been known to eat the high carb crap, until very recently.  So thank you.

Get well!

Yeah, this is just what wee need here, to learn from each other.

Well, I may not be experienced enough to give any advice related to the kids upbringing, however I would like to express my point of view.

Surely, junk food is extremely bad for kids or adults. But I don't think it can be as harmful as stress is. There is so many regular people around me, they eat refined flours, sugars, processed oils and meats, products loaded with chemicals, etc. but as long as they don't care they remain relatively healthy, at least they are not thinking that their's days are numbered at the age of 24... So I doubt any benefits of strict dietary prohibitions as they may bring too much stress. And I have seen so many examples of that. It would be reasonable to find a balance, give some freedom, make some warnings.
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coconinoz

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2008, 03:48:15 pm »

hi yuri,
a while ago, when you began talking about cabbage i immediately wanted to mention it's a goitrogen, yet i refrained from doing so for 2 reasons:
~ i sense some hostility against my posts on this forum (not from you, lex, kristelle) -- but who cares: i was just talking with you (which i did: in my mind)
~ it sounded as if you had set your mind hard on a perceived need of plant carbs

in my case, i do not consider plant carbs to be human food at all -- but that's just me

1 thing i want to bring up this time is a consideration of bee products
bee products are not plants; bee products are a natural synergy of plant & animal food
if i were you -- which i am not -- i'd take 1 tsp fresh (neither prefrozen or overdried) bee pollen daily, since it's loaded with aminoacids, vitamins, minerals, volatile elements... all predigested for you; of honey, mostly sugars, i'd take a tiny 1ce in a while & always together with some fat (suet or marrow, perhaps)

also, i sure stay away from all cereal or legume grains as well as from all kinds of milk products
this is based on my own longterm personal experience, which coincides with loads & loads of materials anyone can find online

re. salt:
in my own experience & that of others, both insufficient & excessive salt result in edema (water retention); this is, again, something 1 can read about online
1 thing to consider in this regard is that the edema from lack of salt (hyponatremia), or water drinking with no food, in extreme cases can flood the brain with fluids

so here's what i do:
prepare a brine with sea salt (the less dried the better), water down the brine after a while, use a dropper to pour a little diluted brine on everything that enters my mouth, solid or liquid
in other words, i do not use a single grain of salt in my food; i do use diluted brine in all -- & this practice has made a huuuge difference in my life
it sure makes a lot of sense in my mind: salt comes from the ocean, where it's always dissolved

ok, i better stop rambling

« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 04:27:43 pm by coconinoz »

Offline boxcarguy07

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2008, 07:25:16 pm »
an idea for salt that Paul Chek advocates, is adding sea salt to all your water, in the amount that would be as much as you can without tasting it.

Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2008, 08:44:50 pm »
an idea for salt that Paul Chek advocates, is adding sea salt to all your water, in the amount that would be as much as you can without tasting it.

Thanks for the tip...
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Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2008, 09:02:14 pm »

hi yuri,
a while ago, when you began talking about cabbage i immediately wanted to mention it's a goitrogen, yet i refrained from doing so for 2 reasons:
~ i sense some hostility against my posts on this forum (not from you, lex, kristelle) -- but who cares: i was just talking with you (which i did: in my mind)
~ it sounded as if you had set your mind hard on a perceived need of plant carbs

Yeah, at least it didn't take me long to know this...


in my case, i do not consider plant carbs to be human food at all -- but that's just me

Honestly, me too... I have had enough during my raw vegan days...


1 thing i want to bring up this time is a consideration of bee products
bee products are not plants; bee products are a natural synergy of plant & animal food
if i were you -- which i am not -- i'd take 1 tsp fresh (neither prefrozen or overdried) bee pollen daily, since it's loaded with aminoacids, vitamins, minerals, volatile elements... all predigested for you; of honey, mostly sugars, i'd take a tiny 1ce in a while & always together with some fat (suet or marrow, perhaps)

This is just what I was doing in May. I ate meat, egg yolks, fat and pollen. I think with my digestion problems I will have to consider honey/pollen option again. So much vegs (a kilo daily) yields as little as 30-40 g. of carbs. This amount can be easily covered by a tbsp or two of honey.

This must surely reduce the total dietary load on my stomach which, in turn, may decrease the total stress. Because foods, which sit in the stomach during waking hours, constantly remind me of my health problems, which I would like to avoid... And, besides, I can get bee products of exceptional quality here.


also, i sure stay away from all cereal or legume grains as well as from all kinds of milk products
this is based on my own longterm personal experience, which coincides with loads & loads of materials anyone can find online

Situation with cereal or legume grains is clear, but dairy is so controversial... But I do stay away from it.


re. salt:
in my own experience & that of others, both insufficient & excessive salt result in edema (water retention); this is, again, something 1 can read about online
1 thing to consider in this regard is that the edema from lack of salt (hyponatremia), or water drinking with no food, in extreme cases can flood the brain with fluids

so here's what i do:
prepare a brine with sea salt (the less dried the better), water down the brine after a while, use a dropper to pour a little diluted brine on everything that enters my mouth, solid or liquid
in other words, i do not use a single grain of salt in my food; i do use diluted brine in all -- & this practice has made a huuuge difference in my life
it sure makes a lot of sense in my mind: salt comes from the ocean, where it's always dissolved

ok, i better stop rambling



I think I have to try one of the suggested methods...

Yuri
It’s time to Eat Like An Animal!

Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2008, 09:59:49 pm »
My plans regarding digestion enzymes are still in the air. First of all I don’t know whether I will benefit from them or not. I’m not sure what kind to look for, cheap (about 10$) or expensive (100+$). Also the issue is in amount, 100 caps or 500… My thinking is that I need the least support because I believe I can digest the foods I eat. Not optimally, but still can. If it was not so, I would have become emaciated by this time.

The basic recommendation for the digestion enzymes is to take before meals to replace the naturally occurring enzymes lost during cooking, processing, and preparation of the average mixed diet. It’s not about me, isn’t it?

I understand that Vitalzym may be potent for many persons. But its list of other ingredients (cellulose, maltodextrin, silicon dioxide, magnesium stearate, riboflavin, and chlorophyllin) makes its appropriateness questionable for me, as these additional fillers may significantly reduce the effect of IsoCort and retard the healing of adrenals. The Pregest Cultured Enzymes seem to be friendlier in this regard, but I am yet to solve the shipping issue.
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Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2008, 10:24:53 pm »
Check out Neprinol. It's made by some of the people that made Vitalzym but only has one filler ingredient (dextrose I believe) in the cellulose pill. It also has another enzyme not in the Vitalzym formula, and it's more concentrated so you don't have to take as many pills.

Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #47 on: September 08, 2008, 10:41:47 pm »
From the very first day there was the dawning realization that, however I struggled, I was fighting a losing battle. Nevertheless it pertains to human nature to cherish a forlorn hope, and it is difficult or impossible to dispense with illusions.

Probably, I've tried every remedy suggested by raw paleo science. It was a long and adventurous journey. I deeply regret it didn’t work out for me. Or am I jumping the gun?

You see, I really don’t know what to do. I’m at loss. On taking thought it seemed to me that I must aim at… at what? What do I have to long for? What steps to take…? Wait? I'd wait till the cows come home. But at the back of my mind I clearly understand that I’m showing a steady deterioration in my condition day by day. My problems became every day more clamant. I fear to think what may happen soon.

A reasonable person would be expected to seek professional advice from a qualified physician. But what medicine can offer? Drugs to speed up the process?

Still, I am too young to shut the door on life. But I cannot do anything to prevent it. As the days go by I am becoming more and more out of touch with realities, unworldly person.

I've had my day and I've enjoyed it. But no longer do I find pleasure in living. I am world-weary. Look, I'm already through. Like, I'm wasted… How I am tired of all this!

I’m stuck in helplessness and hopelessness. I have myriad of symptoms which seem will never go away. My body is crying out for relief.

Well, so far the results are showing that things are in a bad way. I came to the conclusion that vegetables are not worth the candle. But their elimination poses a problem related to providing at least some minimal amount of carbs in the diet. Fruit season is over. But wait, I can’t just turn back to eating fruits and meat. I was there before and it led me to where I’m now. And yes, on top of that I cannot digest foods in adequate amounts.

I have to think up something effective. As unemployed I will have a plenty of time for that. I know I will loose my job soon. It is inevitable as my productivity goes down. Maybe, lemon juice and eggs diet?

Oh, I have to mention that I was able to find some licorice root and wormwood. Now I drink several tablespoons of tea made from it. It seems I would be banned from posting here for my non-paleo thinking ;)
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Online TylerDurden

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #48 on: September 08, 2008, 10:53:05 pm »
You know, Yuri, you really should get a doctor to examine you. I agree that medicines/drugs are mostly useless, but, for all you know, you might be suffering from something specific(a mineral-deficiency or whatever) that the doctor might be able to diagnose. When I started on my search for better health, I was prepared to do anything at all to reach that goal, no matter how awkward, if I'd set myself any standards at the time(eg:- eat no "disgusting" foods like raw meat), I would be dead by now for sure. So try absolutely  everything, including the option of a doctor.

Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error. Marcus Tullius Cicero

Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #49 on: September 08, 2008, 11:00:28 pm »
You just mentioned mineral-deficiency... What kind of minerals? Calcium/Magnesium? It's hard to realise why I became extremely mineral deficient on paleo diet...
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