Author Topic: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?  (Read 5192 times)

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Offline sabertooth

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Offline a_real_man

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2017, 03:56:11 am »
The test of a theory is whether it makes useful and nontrivial predictions. Mathematical conclusions are just one example of a type of prediction. It's neither necessary nor sufficient for a theory to have math - the math is simply one type of prediction.

Einstein's theory is useful because it provides real and nontrivial predictions which we can then verify and take advantage of: black holes, GPS, etc. The math is simply a manifestation of the theory's predictions.

You can see that math plays a minimal role in theories if you consider string theory, which is a completely mathematical theory - it's not considered physics because it doesn't provide any concrete predictions.

Online TylerDurden

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2017, 04:04:43 am »
The trouble with Einstein is that there is plentiful proof that he stole credit for 2 of his theories from Poincare and others, without even bothering to mention them. I mean, even Newton had to admit that "he was standing on the shoulders of giants...".  Einstein's theory of relativity is also showing major holes as the dark matter he predicted has shown no evidence of existing etc.
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Offline dair

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2017, 04:30:32 am »
Been reading a bit from a book by Thom Hartmann called "Adult ADHD: How to succeed as a Hunter in a Farmer's World". He says that for our ancestors some ADHD traits were necessary for survival, and that "Hunters" make good entrepreneurs...

Offline ys

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2017, 11:30:18 am »
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I am attempting a contention, that if the means by which we attain those great heights of technological advancement, are out of touch with the true nature of the universe then so will be the souls of those who tether themselves to the faulty materialist models.

Physics is purely materialistic.  That's what it does.

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are at their base heartless and godless idols

This has nothing to do with science.

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makes many good arguments against the mythical Maths behind the false views of gravity

Electric universe does not offer any alternatives that improve on existing shortcomings.  None.  Zero.  All their talk is purely philosophical because it is not verifiable.  They are in the same league as Scientology in their attempts to explain how world is working.

I guess we have to wait for quantum computers.  If that thing becomes a reality it will invalidate almost everything  Electric Universe is standing for.

Oh, and another thing. I'm curious how they would explain muon tomography.

Offline ys

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2017, 11:31:48 am »
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It's neither necessary nor sufficient for a theory to have math

Then how do you propose you build practical models to verify your theory?  You can't.  And without working models your theory is really worthless.

Offline a_real_man

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2017, 12:45:22 am »
Then how do you propose you build practical models to verify your theory?  You can't. 

That's quite the logical leap.
Natural Selection doesn't require math to be verified.
The theory that the earth is round/flat doesn't require math to be verified.
The theory of magnetic monopoles doesn't require math to be verified.
Germ theory. The theory that humans are rational. The theory that jesus is the son of god.
More generally, any ideas you might have about reality are theories and I'm certain you are not doing much math to verify them. Don't get me wrong - math is great. But like I said, it is simply taking your theory and then using *quantitative* logical deductions to make predictions. You don't have to make these deductions quantitative. They can simply be logical deductions.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2017, 10:08:23 am »
Physics is purely materialistic.  That's what it does.


This is perniciously the point, which is at the crux of the fundamental difference between the materialistic cosmology of conventional physicist  and the metaphysical mind of the God universe, the great vision of Brahma described by the Mystics.

Generally thinking....Math is an after though.... Creative insights of metaphysical mind are the initiator of innovation, while the mathematics abstractions follow in the wake of such insight as an afterthought used as a language to extrapolate data in an attempt to explain in rudimentary form, the hows and whys of the discovery to others. Math is a valuable tool that can codify and carry forward the inspirations and inventions birthed from mystical origin, but its machinations are not a be all end all authority. The Aftermath of explanatory formulation which are observed in the wake of these metaphysical insights has its value, but is in itself not the prime pro generator of revelation or innovation. 

The Mathematics used to explain material phenomenon is a form of Maya, which is not to trivialize the endeavor of computation, this indeed is a manifestation of the same power that created the universe, and there will be those human minds who are capable of aligning abstract formulation with observational reality....but without the understanding that the fundamental basis of reality is an immaterial hologram, a projectioned continuum of the metaphysical mind manifestation of the living CREATOR, these materialist become entranced by false delusions, and many become convinced that a dead and lifeless universe of ignorant blind forces is all that there is, and so cut themselves off from participating in other areas of human creativity which though can never be "Quantumfied". Nevertheless the immeasurable metaphysical forces are just as powerful and valuable a tool to humanity as any materialistic-centric scientific model. 
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2017, 10:18:25 am »
Food for thought regarding quantum computing....... there is plenty of evidence which suggest that the brain is a quantum computer...capable of running multiple simulations simultaneously...and it is the effects of these bio electrically generated simulations which evoke out of the infinities of possibilities, the seemingly finite and self limiting mythematical models of particle physics.

Electric Resonance in Microtubules
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiLplTc8rQY
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2017, 11:55:26 pm »
Captain Fantastic is a good movie and its themes are extremely relevant to me and my children's own situation and experiences. The movie opens with a good Raw meat eating hunting scene.

Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAIEnDWhzf0

Whole movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFWPvie1TeY
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Offline ys

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2017, 05:51:02 am »
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Natural Selection doesn't require math to be verified.

Sorry, I meant physics theory.  Which is the point of our discussion.  Things like time dilation and length contraction which are part of relativity theory you can't verify without math.

Offline ys

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2017, 06:06:13 am »
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perniciously

I had to google it.

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without the understanding that the fundamental basis of reality is an immaterial hologram, a projectioned continuum of the metaphysical mind manifestation of the living CREATOR

No one knows what is fundamental basis of reality.  Your definition cannot be verified just like any other religious dogmas.  And it does not help in any way to create next generation devices such as quantum computing and muon tomography. Which are the direct result of the Standard model which Electric universe rejects outright.  According to Electric universe these things should not exist.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2017, 07:12:45 am »
Pernicious is a fine word, which relates well to the attitude of ideological extremes

Again, defining what reality "is" boils down to a individuals preference. I personally am much happier with a universal model which isn't set in stone, and is beyond proof or disproof.

A Universe that is a multiplicity constructed of living entities birthing, evolving, and dying within an organic process, where nobody knows the fundamental basis of reality, is much more preferable to my taste, than a model which uses an Artificiality intelligence generated singularity to remove all the mystery from the mysteries of life.

Temporally speaking these extremes are not mutually exclusive... I as an individual and limited being can experience reality as a metaphysically spiritually projected head trip, while simultaneously the machine men are free to begin construction an entirely alien digitized mathmatized realm of existence. Perhaps the age will come when the machines will begin to question the reality of its own creators existence.

I choose to reject the idea that engineering can solve the problems of human life, without destroying the parts of humanity I would wish to preserve...There is this feeling that the power of the raw and unaugmented human mind, in tune with the energy of the cosmic rhythm, can generate dynamic, organic and spontaneous solutions without dependence on these "next generation devices". The type of world and quality of humanity which would follow in the wake of these alternative ways of living and thinking non materialistically, would be just as amazing and marvelous as that which is promised by ever advancing technology.

Its not that Im advocating the Luddite position, instead a middle way approach would be prudent. Im an advocate for allowing different factions to coexist....the technocrats can build their towers of technological babel, while allowing for a reserve population of more earth bounded souls who could act as a counter balance.... perhaps having large reserves of heirloom varieties of humans would be useful as a contingency plan to save the human race, just in case the cybernetic trans humanist thing doesn't work out according to plan.... Let the earth reality be a grand experiment where the universe uses the ever flowing,evolving, and creative spirit of life as a means to discover the meaning of its own existence. 

Maybe in the face of the inevitable procession of events its unrealistic to hold on to any form of nostalgia for a human centric world that may have never even been as it was perceived to be. Alas perhaps my own view has been somewhat jaded by all the dystopic sci-fi exposure, from themes brought up in films like "Ghost in the Shell"...Hmm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZX58fDhebc
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Offline ys

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2017, 11:47:18 am »
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I personally am much happier with a universal model which isn't set in stone

There is no universal model that's set in stone.  Even Einstein was saying there are problems with the Standard model (or whatever it was called back then).

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I choose to reject the idea that engineering can solve the problems of human life
You are digressing.  Electric universe does not deal with this subject.

Interestingly the official website not only does not reject Gravity but it fully accepts it.  They only question the role of gravity when describing cosmic events.  Also the official website does not mention much regarding quantum mechanics and sub-atomic world.  Electric universe deals with very narrow subject which is cosmology.

But youtube is full of followers rejecting gravity left and right.  And I've seen the founder also saying there is no such thing as sub-atomic world.  Really shady and unprofessional.  They have all the characteristics of a quack.  That's why no one in the scientific community takes them seriously.

It is ok to have a different opinions regarding how world works.  There are plenty of examples in today's scientific community.  Present it in a professional manner and everyone will review it and discuss it.  The way Electric universe does it is childish at best.  And that's my problem with them.

 

Offline sabertooth

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2017, 12:51:53 pm »
No digression intended, I was simply tangentially musing upon some random thoughts.

What official Web Site are you citing??? My views relate more closely to the works of Walter Russel and his revelations regarding the "secret of light" and I believe other electric universe enthusiast outlets such as the thunderbolts project, though containing some kernels of truth are mistaken in many of their own interpretations. Have you studied the full scope of Walter Russel's alternative cosmology before dismissing it entirely?

Not to say that the phenomenon of gravity does not exist..... Russel thought that what is called gravity isn't a "force", it does not "pull", there are no mythical graviton particles.... instead gravity is the center point of stillness which all movement originated from and spirals back toward. These movements are waves of the same energy that makes up light, that create the illusion of the material world as they are channeled through cubic wave fields.

The nuclear atom constructed by subatomic particles is a myth, the periodic table is a farce and electricity is the only force. There is no such thing as empty space, what was claimed to be the empty vacuum of space is filled with the inert gases or elemental aethers which are insusceptible to our instruments.

The Still Magnetic light divided by electric light motion, which seeks a return to the stillness, is a much more attractive theory behind gravity than any of the other opinions I have come across   
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0eEO0QRXxM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky0JJGFa044
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22eNWZwIeCQ

The Secret of Light
ftp://leo.co.ls/Philosophy/russell/the_secret_of_light.pdf
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Offline ys

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2017, 12:48:59 pm »
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What official Web Site are you citing???


www.thunderbolts.info

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Have you studied the full scope of Walter Russel's alternative cosmology before dismissing it entirely?


I've looked at it and did not find anything interesting.  I'm not interested in philosophical mumbo-jumbo.  I'm interesting in real things.  Like Tesla was a very practical man and he built practical things using real scientific formulas.

For example, walter-russell.com is claiming that planet orbit is due to a process of ELECTRICAL buoyancy and not a gravitational force of attraction.  But it does not explain how you suppose to calculate planet orbit without gravitational constant and without gravity as a force.  All this talk is useless.

Another example is walter-russell.com claims that radioactivity is simply electricity unwinding.  But they present nothing to back this claim.  Quantum mechanics explains radioactivity and backs it up with math to calculate entire process. And it has been verified by things like power plants, nuclear weapons, x-ray machines, and many others.  WRC offers no such thing.

Also, on this website I found gross mistakes like this one
"Nikola Tesla decided to apply an on/off sequence to his ac current. A light bulb operating at 50/60 Hz will thus be on for part of the cycle and then off for part of the cycle."
This is wrong.  Bulb is on for all of the cycle except for one moment in the middle of the cycle.  For the first half current is going one way.  And for the other half current is going the other way.  It is not off.

And it is also wrong to compare it with what they call Main Stream Science.  WR is not a science.  Philosophy maybe, but not a science.

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The Still Magnetic light divided by electric light motion, which seeks a return to the stillness, is a much more attractive theory behind gravity than any of the other opinions I have come across   


Does it tell you how to calculate planet motion so we can send a probe there or even go there ourselves?  Or calculate how much fuel we need to overcome gravity forces and get back home?  I bet it does not.  I do not see how you find this theory attractive.


Offline FRANCIS HOWARD BOND

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2017, 07:30:51 pm »
Agree wholeheartedly with everything YS has to say.    It is fundamental PHYSICS and FACT!!!   Jolly well done!

Offline sabertooth

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2017, 10:59:24 pm »
“[Einstein’s theory of relativity is] a magnificent mathematical garb which fascinates, dazzles and makes people blind to the underlying errors. The theory is like a beggar clothed in purple whom ignorant people take for a king… its exponents are brilliant men, but they are meta-physicists rather than scientists.” Nicola Tesla

Tesla actually agreed with a number of Russel's fundamental points, He along with Russel both refuted the nuclear atomic theory.

It seems the basis of fundamental support for the pro establishment theory , is that it somehow provides practical pragmatic results such as rocket trajectory calculations... the fallacy in such an argument is that such wonderfully practical and useful calculations are not directly related to how correct or incorrect the overall cosmological model those engineers possess.

Kepler held a number of dogmatic theory's that were fundamentally wrong. Yet despite the fact he was wrong about the true nature of how the planets moved; his calculation and measurements of the motion he observed were correct. These same foundation flaws which have been aggregated and passed down by the succession of Issac Newtons Giants are still prevalent in modern cosmology, and though the observations and calculations are in someway correct and have practical applications from a certain viewpoint, they are fundamentally incorrect and have aberrant human and ecological consequences from an other perspective. 

What good is rocket science to a world where half the people are starving? What do these equations equate to when it comes to measuring human equality? What relevance is relativity in devising a system of balanced ecology?

From a certain perspective many of these wonderful "advances" built upon the false foundations of cosmologies which are out of tune, out of touch with the unseen realities, and unobservable realities, from one point of view, have been just as detrimental to the wellness of the average human life... as another point of view might claim it has benefited humanity.
 
This is not a right or wrong issue, there are nuances beyond what is being presented as evidence, To me the cosmology of the universe is just as much of an art as a science, and the beautiful sense of correctness exist only the mind of the beholder. The kind of world one wishes to evoke determines the reality as it creates itself. Some may prefer the atomic model, and work to create through particle physics all sorts of fantastic technology that will transform humanity in one direction, while others prefer an spiritual model where the power of the mind channels mysterious energies in ways that seek harmonic resonance with the mind of the creator.

Both paths are equally legitimate courses to investigate...which side one chooses to fallow is more a matter of taste than empirical truth. Ive personally had enough of the toxic fumes of combustion engines, the heavy metals of industrial alchemy, the pesticides which cover the heartland of my home country... many of the so called advancements, cited by empiricist as evidence of progress, have been built upon the false foundations of the materialistic worldview....and because these views are out of tune with the deeper reality, the interference that is caused by those who follow its false promises have the potential to create blow back, side effects, and unforeseeable consequences.

I have stated on a number of occasions that I advocate a middle path, and wish to find an intermediate balance between the opposing worldviews. By entertaining different ideas without having to hold any notion of their being an absolute truth, I am free to seek out and explore these subjects from a unique perspective. I dont wish the destruction of the material worldview altogether and replace it with a purely spiritual view, instead I play the role of devils advocate by pointing out the limitations and blind spots  of material science, while evoking an awareness in those who may have forgotten that there is still much to be discovered.
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Offline ys

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2017, 12:40:03 pm »
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Tesla actually agreed with a number of Russel's fundamental points

Yet, Tesla did not use any of Russel's work for his inventions.  He used math developed by other scientists for all his inventions.

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[Einstein’s theory of relativity is] a magnificent mathematical garb

That's understandable.  Because at those times relativity was a pure thought without any practical uses.  Now with advances in tools and technology it will be a matter of time more and more practical things could be built that can either confirm or disprove relativity theory. Or it could say it is partially correct and needs further refinement.


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What good is rocket science to a world where half the people are starving? What do these equations equate to when it comes to measuring human equality? What relevance is relativity in devising a system of balanced ecology?

That's a purely philosophical question.  You can ask the same thing how work of painters is relevant to starving people. Or those who put up ballet and other entertainment.  And many more.

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From a certain perspective many of these wonderful "advances" built upon the false foundations of cosmologies

It is not false.  Because no one proved it to be false.  Russel theory does not prove anything because it is more of a philosophy which does not require any proofs.  For example, mainstream idea is that sun is powered by fusion.  It is explained along with equations that show how it happens and how to calculate the rate and amount of energies that sun should generate.  We blew up too many hydrogen bombs to confirm fusion theory checks out pretty well.  Now if they can come up with controllable fusion reactor that would be awesome.

Electric universe, on the other hand, is saying this is false and there is no such thing as fusion.  They say Sun is powered by electromagnetic interactions.  But they do not provide any details how and no means how to calculate those interactions.  You see how it useless.  Electric universe is in the same category as ancient Book of the Dead.  Those theories do not prove anything and have little to do with real world.  The only thing you can do is either believe in it or not.

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Ive personally had enough of the toxic fumes of combustion engines, the heavy metals of industrial alchemy, the pesticides

This should be addressed to politicians who regulate all of those devices.  Scientists do a different kind of work.

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I play the role of devils advocate by pointing out the limitations and blind spots  of material science

It is true that many concepts of modern science have unanswered questions.  Everyone is welcome to come up with explanations.  It's just Russel's work is not one of them.

I'm optimistic about quantum computers.  If they can make it work on a big scale will that be enough for you to admit that quantum superposition is a real thing and Electric universe is dead wrong about it?


Offline Iguana

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2017, 07:42:31 pm »
Thanks, ys! Excellent posts.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline sabertooth

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Re: What are you currently reading, watching, learning?
« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2017, 04:28:10 am »
I respectfully disagree Y.S. and do not believe you are addressing the crux of the points Im attempting to make. To dismiss everything in the Secret of Light as a Philosophy without relevance, while propping up mainstream orthodoxy, is just as much of a subjective opinion, as the quantum theory.

Regardless of what anyone says, I find the description of cubic wave fields absolutely fascinating and in my mind it provides a much more tangible view of how energy is transmitted into matter, than the orthodox science which doesn't seem brave enough to even broach the subject with any depth. 

The electric cosmos theory does not claim that Fission and fusion do not exist, only that its not an atomic process, it electrical. The electric bonds that hold the elements together can be broken apart to unleash great amounts of energy, but that does not prove there are protons within the nucleolus of a material atom!

It is true that on the sun elemental energies are joined together to form denser elements, but that does not mean the current model is correct in explaining what is truly going on! How the sun actually works is still not well understood, and is poorly described by the nuclear furnace model preached to us in school

There is this false notion that because modern technologist are capable of harnessing the fundamental energy of the universe, that this somehow proves our scientific elite have a clear understanding of what the fundamental energy is and how it actually works. In fact our ancestors where able to harness fire, without the faintest notion of what plasma was. They created powerful technologies without any true understanding of the forces at work which made it possible. Our scientist today can channel and harness the power of the elemental forces with a greater degree than ever, but I insist they are not much closer to explaining the nature of energy, as were our primitive ancestors who attempted to explain reality in terms of spirit, magic, and illusion!

There is much more to these differences in philosophical outlook than "meat the eye", and I insist that "how" you view the universe is relevant to how the holy spirit is expressed in the hearts and minds of mankind! The worldview of a man who senses the traces of the holy spirit throughout all the worlds of manifestation, cannot be reconciled with the worldview of those who do not feel the presence of such spirit. Much of this subject matter cannot be translated in terms of Truth, or Proof, and so are sanctimoniously dismissed by empiricist...and so ...for those who understand no explanation is necessary, and for those who do not, no explanation is possible.

As a "Brother of the free spirit", I will not concede to the "Sons of the One Law" nor will I worship at the "temple of Mammon" with the "lords of Belial" nor will I sit ideally by while the scientist begin construction of the great tower of Google, as our world falls under the spells cast by the false prophet of "AI"

These fundamental disagreements regarding the nature of existence have been with us since the beginning of human kind, and will continue to go on as long as there is a free world left standing. The dynamism between such polar opposites is what makes our world go round, and I believe it is more important than ever to have these kinds public discussions, to lay it all out upon the threshold of the great electric brain, so that it can be assimilated into the new wave-field projection realities which make up perceptual and ever evolving creation. 
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.