Author Topic: Experiment  (Read 16379 times)

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Offline SkinnyDevil

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2009, 10:04:58 pm »
BOOM!

31 days down. Today: Oysters...and more!
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Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2009, 11:26:29 am »
Are you going to do another experiment? I'd be interested to see how you did for a month zero carb.

Offline SkinnyDevil

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2009, 08:56:47 pm »
I'll have to read up on zero carb.

If so, I'll probably do a week on, then a week off...then 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. The I'll try a month.

Gotta see in small steps how my body reacts to zero carb since I've never done that.

Any recommended reading?
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2009, 03:55:57 am »
I'll have to read up on zero carb.

If so, I'll probably do a week on, then a week off...then 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. The I'll try a month.

Gotta see in small steps how my body reacts to zero carb since I've never done that.

Any recommended reading?

Well, there's Stefansson's books "not by bread alone" and the expanded version "the fat of the land". They're hard to get hold of as they're out of print and very expensive but I think Charles on the ZC(cooked) forum has printed 1 of Stefansson's books.

Realistically speaking, 1 week is too short to see much difference with goign zc(except for a loss of physical prformance and possibly some sluggishness). In my own case, the negative effects from a RZC diet only started to reraly snowball from around the 3rd week, with some initial effects after 2 weeks..
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2009, 07:11:43 am »
I'll have to read up on zero carb.

If so, I'll probably do a week on, then a week off...then 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. The I'll try a month.

Gotta see in small steps how my body reacts to zero carb since I've never done that.

Any recommended reading?
Lex Rooker's journal and posts
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2009, 10:08:20 am »
If so, I'll probably do a week on, then a week off...then 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. The I'll try a month.

Interesting approach. Maybe I'll try that, sounds doable. Only question is, how much carbs on the "off" times?

Offline SkinnyDevil

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2009, 09:26:19 pm »
I thought you were already zero carb. No?
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Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2009, 11:05:07 pm »
I thought you were already zero carb. No?

On the contrary. I've gone zero carb for half a week at a time, never put the effort into it to get over the hump. Usually I start to find eating meat becomes less appetizing at that point, and sometimes I'll get a head ache or something. Once during bjj I got really dizzy. All par for the course I've heard as you deplete glycogen and aren't consuming carbs, but I just didn't feel like dealing with it.

Offline SkinnyDevil

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2009, 08:49:06 pm »
Ahhhh...I stand corrected.

Got a good suggested reading for zero-carb?
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2009, 05:35:19 am »
I still say Lex Rooker's writings are the best I've seen yet on ZC/carnivore. The hyperlipid guy, the PaNu doctor and Stefansson provide some valuable input, but they make some major mistakes like underestimating the harmful consequences of dairy for many people or the value of the raw aspect of RPD (although the PaNu doctor just sears his meats lightly).
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Neone

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2009, 03:03:21 am »
My wife and I did a little experiment this last week.
After doing a 'hardcore' meat-only diet for over four months we were getting some candy cravings. Its the end of summer now and I said 'screw it, just go and get an ice-cream if you want one that bad.. you only live once' So we went out and treated ourselves to an ice-cream.. No big deal..

Sugar is a terrible drug. One taste and its all you can think about. So over the next few days we had mabye 4 scoops of ice-cream and some (quality) chocolate.
Observations..
(a) Your mouth feels like crap
(b) Your stomach feels like crap
(c) Your mood changes (less calm)
(d) I got my 'itch' back (not bad, but i notice because i havent had it in months)
(e) Your heart feels like crap
(f) You feel dirty, I bathe like every few weeks, after eating crap i felt so grody from i guess my body sweating out all that poison
(g) a few other small things i cant remember.

Ok, so my family is having turkey dinner and i go 'shit, im trashing myself why not have turkey dinner'
So i grab myself a plate of cooked turkey, a potato, cranberry sauce and whatever else was there (skipped the beans and veggies)
Observations...
(a) I put this cooked turkey in my mouth and just start laughing.. 'Oh my god, i cant believe people actually EAT this stuff!' haha. cranberry sauce and gravy? you're god damn right you need that stuff just to be able to swallow that DRY DRY DRY meat.
(b) You get so full and your stomach bloats and I go 'ah yes, i remember this sensation.. its the sensation of being full after a meal... I do not like this sensation.
(c) A few hours later im not feeling all that great and a migrane develops.. I used to get migranes a lot and havent had one in such a long time. I never knew really what they were from, i always figured overheating or breathing in smoke/chemical smells but now i wonder if they were also food related.
(d) It just sits in your stomach doing nothing.. I wake up at like 4am and throw it up.

Final experiment we decide to eat what 6 months ago we would have called a 'Healthy Meal'. I cook up some quinoa and some of my fresh picked garden tomatoes, zucchini, some other stuff out of my garden that i cant remmeber and a cob of local corn. I cook this up and have it for dinner.
Observations...
(a) your stomach bloats
(b) It sat in our stomach for what seemed like close to 12 hours.
(c) It messes up your internal sausages and makes you constipated
(d) You crap some of it out undigested
(e) Your shit stinks
(f) You fart and burp
(g) You just plain do not feel as good as you do when eating a meat diet. Id say we felt only 65% as good as we usually do just eating meat.

This is what both my wife and I experienced, the same symptoms from eating. She has thyroid/adrenal problems and I was perfectly healthy with no problems when we started a carnivorous diet.

We're pretty much done with anything that isnt meat after these experiments.  We feel that anything that isnt meat truly is 'starvation food' because we sure as shit arent eating it again unless we're starving haha.
That's not paleo.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2009, 06:40:40 am »
Your experience sounds very similar to mine. Some other people here have been able to tolerate significant levels of plant foods without reported negative symptoms. For whatever reasons, I don't seem to be able to tolerate more than a tiny occasional portion of plant foods, with some causing more severe problems than others.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Neone

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2009, 09:57:31 am »
I never believed that I had a problem with porridge untill I stopped eating it for a while, then went back to it with an honest approach to how i felt... I miss you tasty sugary hot breakfast!!! haha

edit: I guess my point was that I think that everyone is the same.. Different tolerances are just that, tolerances. I can tolerate breathing in drywall dust better than my wife.. so ill just breath in a little.. haha
That's not paleo.

Offline SkinnyDevil

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2009, 09:15:16 pm »
Interesting.

I'm fine on plant foods and a little meat, but I've tried a few days on a lot of meat and only a bit of plant food, and it's not working as well (may be a bad choice of plant foods, though). After I read up a bit more, I'll do an "official" experiment of low or zero carb for about a week and see how that goes.
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Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2009, 08:49:39 am »
I transitioned to mostly meats through the Primal Diet and drinking tons of raw milk shakes with eggs and honey. Quite delicious, but it make me feel bogged down after. There is nothing, I repeat nothing at all, that digests for me as easily as raw meat and fat. I can eat 1000 calories of it and feel light as if I hadn't eaten at all. A 1000 calorie raw milk shake, or 1000 calories of fruit, would make my stomach feel full, probably cause it would be, from the water content of the shake/fruit and fiber content of the fruit.

Offline SkinnyDevil

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2009, 08:29:16 pm »
Cool.

I've not had milk for a LONG time. I had some raw cheese a year or two ago, but didn;t care for it. Doesn't look like AJ's Primal Diet is going to be functional for me.

I've done more experimenting as of late, but I still crave tropical fruits and all manner of veggies as much as I crave meats. I manage to be very low carb - for the past week I've eaten a ton of veggies & meats, but all the veggies are low carb - but I still function best when I mix it up quite a bit.
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2009, 06:33:14 am »
... There is nothing, I repeat nothing at all, that digests for me as easily as raw meat and fat. I can eat 1000 calories of it and feel light as if I hadn't eaten at all. A 1000 calorie raw milk shake, or 1000 calories of fruit, would make my stomach feel full, probably cause it would be, from the water content of the shake/fruit and fiber content of the fruit.
Exactly my experience as well. I can eat over 2 lbs. of raw meat and suet with water at a sitting and not have a heavy or bloated stomach. I can run afterwards without getting reflux or indigestion.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2009, 04:46:38 pm »
Interesting.

I'm fine on plant foods and a little meat, but I've tried a few days on a lot of meat and only a bit of plant food, and it's not working as well (may be a bad choice of plant foods, though). After I read up a bit more, I'll do an "official" experiment of low or zero carb for about a week and see how that goes.

One common characteristic I mentioned a while back was that because the body required totally  different enzymes/bacteria etc. to go on a ZC diet, there were invariably multiple issues/side-effects frequently reported from  digesting plants after doing ZC(or very low VLC) for ages. I've heard the same sort of thing applies to semi- or full  vegans/fruitarians, that when they suddenly switch to a low-carb diet, they find it difficult to digest mostly meat-meals  after years of mainly eating plant foods.
Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error. Marcus Tullius Cicero

Offline RawZi

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2009, 03:28:28 am »
I've not had milk for a LONG time. I had some raw cheese a year or two ago, but didn;t care for it. Doesn't look like AJ's Primal Diet is going to be functional for me.

  On occasion I've thrown up after drinking raw milk.  That has never happened to me after drinking homemade kefir though, nor after eating cultured raw grassfed butter.  Also I find AV's  recipes of adding raw egg for the lecithin to tolerate the milk fats helps even more.  Is it just milk for you Skinny Devil, or is it all dairy?
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Offline SkinnyDevil

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2009, 08:57:46 pm »
Hi, RawZi.

Milk, cheese, eggs...I just don;t have a taste for it. I've been adding some raw egg lately and do OK with just one a day, but I had 2 the other day and it didn't sit well.

I keep going back to big salads (lots of greens), tropical fruits, raw fish, and shots of red meat.
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Offline RawZi

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2009, 10:50:15 pm »
Hi :) David, good morning!

    We're each different.  The only way I can tolerate tropical fruit is in small quantity, and then mixed in a bowl with butter, honey and egg.  I'm very happy to have found these 3 RAF foods.  Previously I could not tolerate any tropical fruit.  I couldn't tolerate them when I was semi cooked paleo either.

    I haven't eaten much eggs lately.  No taste for them.  I did feel better when I was eating more eggs though.  I will probably work the larger quantity back into my diet.  Before I was RAF I tried egg Rocky style, and I could not get it to my throat.

RawZi
 
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Offline SkinnyDevil

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Re: Experiment
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2009, 02:59:27 am »
Hahahaha! "Rocky style" - that's great!

I used to do that when I was a kid!
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