Author Topic: Low histamine  (Read 3102 times)

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Offline Robinlove

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Low histamine
« on: June 03, 2017, 12:00:19 am »
I'm thinking of initially gearing my raw Omni diet towards low histamine. After a month of so, I'm going to start including some fermented foods. suggestions for someone who is trying to get their histamine levels back in check? Most homemade fermented foods are chock full of histamines.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2017, 02:46:30 am »
Histamines are not a cause of problems..high levels are typically symptomatic of eating the wrong foods or wrong combinations of foods...The body raises histamine as an immune response in order to mitigate damage, and neutralize toxicity caused by eating the wrong foods, or being exposed to drugs or some other forms of environmental contamination.

The histamine reaction is a natural occurrence, that enables the immune system to remove harmful substances from the body. It only becomes an issue when one fails to read the signals properly and take appropriate steps. Eliminate all possible problem foods, and food combinations, and avoid all drugs , supplements, or environmental exposure to anything that may be triggering a histamine overreaction.

The Omni diets insistence on lean meats is extremely dubious from a raw paleo perspective.... anyone with these kind immune and hormonal imbalance should not be limiting animal fat. Lean meats and excess protein in general, without enough fat to balance out can actually make these issues worse.

Animal fat is nourishing and rejuvenating for the bodys endocrine system.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 02:54:31 am by sabertooth »
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Offline surfsteve

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2017, 12:02:52 pm »
What he said!

I've seen drastic improvements in everything since I gave up grain and dairy products. Wheat is by far the worst with corn next in line. The bulk of my diet for a long time has been only meat and green vegetables but lately I been adding in whole citrus, juicing the peelings and all and have been feeling fantastic. Before that I started juicing vegetables excessively and I think it was too much of a good thing and was noticing a slight deterioration in my health. But it was still tons better than way back when I was doing wheat and dairy. Wheat and cheese were hard to give up. I still crave them sometimes even now.

Offline Robinlove

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2017, 09:35:35 am »
I've already given up all sorts of stuff, hence why Im here. I'm trying to heal my gut so the natural reaction of histamine production doesn't bother my body. It's apparently from an imbalance in microbiome. Limiting histamine causing foods temporarily allows gut to heal, then add back in foods with normal probiotics and done.

Does anyone have experience eating raw Omni with low histamine producing foods? As in, initially cutting out raw egg whites and all dairies? Is it necessary if raw? Does raw vs cooked have a higher/lower histamine response? Stuff like that.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2017, 11:53:13 am »
It would be helpful to know, in detail what specific foods you are consuming on a day to day basis? Low Histamine foods is a relative concept, and I think the Omni Diet is wrong in how it approves of legumes, and other foods which could be problematic for people with these issues. There may be much more pressing issues which if addressed first would make the histamine problem go away.

Many plant lectins in foods like legumes and nuts which also can trigger histamine response and if you are still eating these kinds of foods you might not get the optimal results from what a Raw Paleo diet has to offer.
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Offline Robinlove

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2017, 06:06:52 am »
I pretty much eat raw veggies, raw animal proteins, raw dairies, raw nuts/seeds, and raw eggs. I'm going to start sprouting nuts/seeds before consumption from now on. I can say I've noticed my histamine levels are down since switching to raw (even though my diet consists of things that cooked induce histamine production and contain histamines). I came to this conclusion because my reaction to mosquito bites the other day was I'd say... Ooh 10% of the reaction I'd have before!! Amazing!!!

Offline Robinlove

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2017, 06:10:37 am »
Here is what I'm about to eat for lunch. It's local grass fed beef fat scraps (someone I knew was going to throw out a few pounds! I got them from them for free... Score!!), covered in a bit of spices (cayenne, cumin chili powder, garlic powder, sea salt, fresh cracked black pepper, topped with fresh guacamole that was mixed with a bit of sea salt and raw, local, organic, grass-fed cow cream, and fresh tomatoes.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2017, 01:44:48 am »
It is always fun to experiment as a newbie but I should add that most long-term RPDers usually find it best to eat 1 food at a time, mono-eating,  and not to need any seasoning/spices as they prefer to go for the foods which taste great on their own and because often it seems better to digest a food this way. Obviously, I am not recommending you change anything now but you might consider trying out mono-eating in a couple of years.Or not, as you like.
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Offline surfsteve

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2017, 02:25:32 am »
I wonder if I will eventually progress to mono eating. Right now it's not one of my goals. I think I need to keep my diet as colorful and diverse as possible in order to keep me from craving cooked foods. Like you said. Maybe in a few years; when and if this has progressed from an experiment to a way of life. So far so good. I really like the way I am feeling. The only thing I really crave is coffee.

I've noticed since I started eating a lot of raw egg yolks again that I sometimes start to get stopped up. I guess eggs are a high histamine food on account of all the grain they feed chickens maybe? Supermarket beef is also fed grain but I guess it's not as bad as they are only fed that way for the last few weeks of their lives. I bought some grass fed beef a while ago to try that was on sale because it was going dark and it tasted kind of bland to me. Funny because I was expecting it to taste gamey.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2017, 03:03:58 am »
My experience has been that almost all RPDers are able to find high quality raw foods in their area. All it takes is a lot of legwork every few months as sources/farms/shops dry up or move elsewhere. For example, when I first started rawpalaeo, I could only find very expensive raw grassfed muscle-meat at 4 pounds sterling a kilo. After checking out the specialised LFM farmers markets in London, I found much cheaper raw grassfed meats and even cheaper raw wild game and cheap raw wildcaught seafood. If one also goes in for intelligent fasting(one does not, after all, need to eat as much raw food as cooked in order to be sustained), then that saves even more money. Going in for foods with much higher nutrients per gram, such as raw, sundried bee-pollen or raw organ-meats also allos one to save money on food. The best course, obviously, is to raise your own food. I have an appartment but am looking into hydroponic farming etc, to see what might work. I also have a garden abroad, where I have just eaten some lovely raw apricots and a multitude of raw tangerines/clementines or whatever they really are called.

Anything is better than cooked, but don`t just stick to grainfed. Most US cattle, I read, are mostly or wholly grainfed the whole time. The point being that cooked food cravings are easier to get rid of, the healthier the meat is.
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Offline surfsteve

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2017, 04:58:19 am »
I can still get ocean caught fish in my area and I been eating more of that. I worry about all the heavy metals from pollution and radiation though. I also eat calves liver instead of cow liver because I read they are slaughtered before they are sent to the feed lots and fed grain. Also I read thymus glands only come from calves because they are 95% degenerated by the time cattle reach market.

No farms here near Death Valley. The local stores only sell processed frozen food, snacks and gas. I have to drive to Ridgecrest, 30 miles to get fresh meat, fruit and vegetables and all that's between here and there is rocks, dirt and creosote bush. Not one single farm. There might be some farms near Los Angeles or Las Vegas but it's around 150 miles to each of them. The grass fed beef in Ridgecrest is pricey.

I don't like to think about it. Farmed fish makes me sick and ocean caught is only slightly more expensive but for some reason grass fed beef is outrageous. Got a feeling if all I ever ate was grass fed that I wouldn't want regular beef anymore than I do farmed fish! I think the calves liver is a pretty good deal. I can taste the difference between it and beef liver.

When I lived in Washington state and Oregon there were cows grazing everywhere I looked. In the winter they fed them hay but that's still grass. Isn't it?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 05:06:09 am by surfsteve »

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2017, 05:04:12 am »
The mercury and radiation concerns are bunk. The oceans, for now, are too vast so dilute most of the toxins anyway. Read the seychelles  ilsander rochester study to see why the mercury in fish scam is so bogus:-

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/05/030516082905.htm
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Offline surfsteve

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2017, 05:14:53 am »
I can identify with that article. I think that they are right and most of the mercury is in fish like Tuna. I used to eat a lot of canned tuna till my gums started bleeding. Another thing the article didn't mention was oysters and clams. I used to love canned smoked oysters but I would get really spacey and forgetful when I ate them. They gotta contain a lot of mercury or something really bad! I didn't get it from eating canned sardines but my girlfriend would complain about my breath. Now she only complains when I eat tripe so I try and eat it in the mornings and give it a chance to work through before I go and see her.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2017, 05:30:36 am »
You entirely missed the point. The relevant study debunked completely any media scares about mercury in fish. In fact it showed the opposite result to some extent re intelligence being boosted.
“The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back.”
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Offline surfsteve

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2017, 05:38:18 am »
I realized that but didn't it say except for tuna and a few other fish? I was trying to agree with the study but my experience with tuna and canned clams and oysters proved to me otherwise and took me to a dark place. I don't know. Maybe it's something else and not the mercury. I just know it messed me up! Tuna made my gums bleed and smoked oysters turned me into a space cadet. I also remember getting really achey from them.

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2017, 05:44:10 am »
Any chance the cooking process makes the mercury more bioavailable and toxic?

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2017, 02:35:34 pm »
That was AV`s claim but it`s nonsense as East Asian countries which consume a lot of raw fish also do not experience any mercury-poisoning. You need much higher levels of mercury poisoning such as happened in Minamata Bay to develop any problems.Selenium in the human body protects even against fish with slightly higher levels of mercury anyway such as tuna and swordfish and pilot whales:-

https://chriskresser.com/5-reasons-why-concerns-about-mercury-in-fish-are-misguided/
“The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back.”
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Offline Iguana

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2017, 03:52:50 pm »
I realized that but didn't it say except for tuna and a few other fish? I was trying to agree with the study but my experience with tuna and canned clams and oysters proved to me otherwise and took me to a dark place. I don't know. Maybe it's something else and not the mercury. I just know it messed me up! Tuna made my gums bleed and smoked oysters turned me into a space cadet. I also remember getting really achey from them.

You spoke about canned tuna and canned smoked oysters! Those have nothing to do with their fresh raw counterparts!
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Iguana

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Re: Low histamine - No Detectable Risk From Mercury In Seafood
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2017, 04:49:28 pm »
That was AV`s claim but it`s nonsense as East Asian countries which consume a lot of raw fish also do not experience any mercury-poisoning. You need much higher levels of mercury poisoning such as happened in Minamata Bay to develop any problems.Selenium in the human body protects even against fish with slightly higher levels of mercury anyway such as tuna and swordfish and pilot whales:-

https://chriskresser.com/5-reasons-why-concerns-about-mercury-in-fish-are-misguided/

Thanks! I referenced it here:
http://paleocru.rawpaleodietforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,8.msg624/topicseen.html#msg624
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2017, 12:37:21 am »
You spoke about canned tuna and canned smoked oysters! Those have nothing to do with their fresh raw counterparts!

I don't know. I never ate tuna raw and oysters only once or twice. Could it be that the canning process makes the mercury or something else in them more toxic? All I know is that I got incredibly spacey when I used to eat that stuff and my instincts told me to avoid it like the plague. 

 I love raw pickled herring though. I want to try making it myself to avoid all the chemicals on the label they are calling "natural ingredients", distilled vinegar and sugar; both of which have been cooked. I actually looked for several recipes for pickled fish yesterday and every single one calls for tons of sugar and vinegar, soaking it in them, rinsing them and throwing it away. It would cost a fortune to do that with Bragg's raw apple cider vinegar. I should probably try making my own and experiment with starting off with just one piece of fish. I think if I just pickled it lightly or tried it raw with some lemon squeezed over it I might eventually get used to eating it natural. It can't be as bad as raw tripe and I've gotten used to that. So raw fish no matter how I prepare them should be a lot better.

I need to distance myself from the pickled herring I buy at the supermarket and prepare raw fish myself the way I do with everything else in my diet. It's not truly raw when it contains distilled vinegar and processed sugar and looking back I seem to have forgotten that! So my diet hasn't been greater than 99% raw after all. Considering I don't eat a lot of fish maybe 97%? Considering my goal has been to stay over 90% and see how it goes I can live with that. I could still afford to eat a can of sardines a day and be within my expectations but (lucky for me) I seem to have lost my craving for them.

I would love to try raw smelts. They remind me of sardines and I ate a lot of them in my youth. I never noticed any small fish like that or sardines sold fresh or frozen in any of the super markets. But then I never really looked for them. I pretty much confine my shopping to the outer isles where produce and fresh meat is sold. Perhaps it's time to venture into the frozen food isle and take a look and see if there's anything I been missing.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2017, 01:42:21 am »
Canned foods are the worst of all. They are superheated way above all cooking-norms in order to kill off the bacteria and there are multiple preservatives in them too. Avoid like the plague! Raw foods have nothing whatsoever to do with the dangers of canned foods. Mercury has nothing to do with any symptoms of yours unless you happen to know there was a mercury spill in your local water from a factory or some such fictional miracle.
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Low histamine
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2017, 12:45:37 pm »
https://kwalliance.org/ku-brown-plant-pollution/

Pollution is a real problem for people living in industrial zones, and one should be especially cautious when eating fresh water fish. This power plant is located 25 miles from my house, and it is surrounded by cattle farms, which raise a good portion of the local grass fed beef that is sold at the local markets. I have noticed that there is a generally poor quality to the meat raised in this area, the beef from this region is horrid and the last couple of sheep I bought within a ten mile radius from the plant were so awful tasting I had to throw them out.
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