Author Topic: AV diet  (Read 19535 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dariorpl

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 836
  • Country: ar
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2015, 05:11:36 am »
What primal diet forum?
We now live in a world where medicine destroys health, law destroys justice, education destroys knowledge, government destroys order, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and banking destroys the economy

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,514
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2015, 05:31:54 am »
What primal diet forum?

Wait, all you've done is read books and eat the Primal Diet? You've never even participated in a Primal or paleo or raw vegan forum? At all?


Offline dariorpl

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 836
  • Country: ar
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2015, 06:05:37 am »
Just this one.
We now live in a world where medicine destroys health, law destroys justice, education destroys knowledge, government destroys order, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and banking destroys the economy

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,514
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2015, 06:18:24 am »
Oh. Wow. Well, sorry, I just assumed otherwise. I apologize for my harsh tone. We get a lot of people here from paleo and raw vegan forums, who are used to the rough and tumble world of nutrition forums.

Offline dariorpl

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 836
  • Country: ar
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2015, 06:31:18 am »
I participated in several forums over many years, going back to 2002, so I'm used to the dynamics; but never in any other forums about nutrition.
We now live in a world where medicine destroys health, law destroys justice, education destroys knowledge, government destroys order, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and banking destroys the economy

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,514
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2015, 08:24:39 am »
I participated in several forums over many years, going back to 2002, so I'm used to the dynamics; but never in any other forums about nutrition.

I'm just so used to giving and receiving the same types of abuse over the same issues that I forget that, just because someone is disagreeing with me and is supporting a common nutritional opinion here (generally veganism, Aajonus, or cooking), doesn't mean they're a veteran of nutrition forum fights, here mostly just to argue, and/or resistant to evidence.

Offline Victor K

  • Scavenger
  • *
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2015, 09:24:16 am »
Yikes hah.

AV promoted a very artificial modern diet which appealed to people who did not want to eat raw meats to any real extent. So raw, dairy, raw veggie-juice, raw coconut cream, raw honey and raw, ground nuts were promoted endlessly as THE main components of the Primal Diet solely because they were easiest, re taste, for former cooked-foodists to try out, and, needless to say, many people suffered thereby from nutritional imbalances etc. . Also, AV's constant insistence that it was impossible to be allergic to raw dairy grated on people like me. I was fooled for a time with his detox explanations etc., but, in the end, realised AV was dead wrong on this.

Another point AV forgot was that many illnesses cause or aggravate allergies so that promoting raw foods that are often allergenic to ill people is a really bad idea.

Wouldn't we need an altered diet to adjust to all the crap we have been put our bodies through? If we tried to eat what we did when we were wild animals now I bet we wouldn't get enough fat. How much fat could we really get off a truly wild animal? Would it be able to satiate you? And would it heal very sick people as well. AV's patients had a very good survival rate to cancer if the claims are true. I've tried doing raw without dairy and eggs. Eating the fattest cuts available(albeit I did not know butchers so only got the traditional cuts) I still felt STARVING which led to junk-food binges. How can you get healthier if you cannot follow a diet simply because your body is starving? I don't think it is fair to many people that may read this forum and believe AV's approach is not worth trying. I do fine with raw eggs. I do fine with raw goats milk(so far anyways). Same goes for unheated honey and celery juice. If you do not eat these foods your left with Meats and Fruits/Veggies. Which is fine if that works for you. I personally don't think I could satiate myself without eggs at least.

Don't get me wrong. I wish AV put more emphasis on other topics such as earthing, emfs, exercise, wild vs domesticated etc. His books are very partial. He doesn't substantiate any of his claims. He didn't properly record any of his research. But I believe he has a very good baseline of information based on observations of a lifetime that no one else really has. I'll do some research to the guy you mentioned. GCB I think. Does he have books?

Offline sabertooth

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,805
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2015, 10:22:56 am »
http://www.reocities.com/HotSprings/7627/ggindex.html


"ANOPSOLOGY A VERY NEW APPROACH TO HUMAN HEALTH" by GCB

This book would be a good place to start.
There is merit in the core principles of Instinctive nutrition, though the details as laid out by GBC are up for debate.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2015, 10:28:50 am by sabertooth »
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline Iguana

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,013
  • Country: pt
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2015, 04:44:59 pm »
By the way I just finished proofreading and correcting this on-line translation and put it on pdf. The online version is not too bad but there are some mistakes as if the translator didn't understand what she translated.

I can send the pdf to forum members who request it and provide me their e-mail address. I advised GCB to sale it as an e-book but he hasn't done it yet.

François
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,514
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2015, 08:17:52 pm »
Thanks for that, Iguana. Are you like GCB's favorite Instincto these days?

Offline Victor K

  • Scavenger
  • *
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2015, 04:05:31 am »
I have read a little so far. So GCB promotes 100% raw asides from milk and eats one food at a time. He seems to promote fruit a lot more than AV does, yes? I remember reading from AV's book that if you eat too much fruit you won't heal among other problems with too much fruit. Is he pro-eggs? For wild edibles he says you can just taste test and if you like it eat it, even with mushrooms. Has anyone done this? I confess I've done this with unidentified berries, never mushrooms though.

Offline Iguana

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,013
  • Country: pt
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2015, 04:26:08 am »
Thanks for that, Iguana. Are you like GCB's favorite Instincto these days?

"GCB's favorite Instincto"? What do you mean? We are friends, nothing more.

For the ones requesting a copy of the book, please provide me your e-mail: we can't attach anything on PMs.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,049
  • Country: at
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: AV diet
« Reply #62 on: November 01, 2015, 04:49:05 am »
Viktor, AV's highly artificial diet was so far from rawpalaeo principles that it did not heal very well. At any rate, raw animal fat is easily obtainable from non-raw-raw-dairy sources, such as raw marrow, raw suet, the white fat from raw muscle-meat and raw heart, raw brains, raw tongue etc. etc.
“The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back.”
? Abigail Van Buren

Offline sabertooth

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,805
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #63 on: November 01, 2015, 05:09:16 am »
I can vouch for the availability of enough fat in grass-fed animals under the right conditions to support a high fat diet.

During the apex hunter days of the last couple of ice ages our ancestors hunted big game that had ample amounts of quality raw fat available. Even hunters of leaner game meat, would consume all the body fat, marrow, belly fat, ect, and often they would throw the leaner tougher scraps to the dogs. Herders in the early neolithic period breed animals that were also high in fat.

The pasture raised sheep I butcher are a prime example of how one can live off the fat of the land. Modern agriculture butchers animals that are too young to build healthy fat reserves from pasture. Lamb is abysmally lean, and the quality of fat in pasture raised cows, isn't as good too me as that of mutton. You allow an animal to reach at least three years of age on rich pasture and there should be plenty of fat for even the most fat hungry carnivore.

There are even ways to fatten up pasture animals more naturally, I have noticed that older ewes that are not bred and don't have to nurse young lambs every year will build up ungodly levels of fat. And older Rams that are kept from chasing after females will spend all the time and energy that would normally go into breeding into passing every hour of the day eating and building up fat.

A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,049
  • Country: at
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: AV diet
« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2015, 05:24:55 am »
Unfortunately, evil UK authorities used the BSE crisis which hit  lots of grainfed cattle-herds to force ALL cattle, even 100% grassfed cattle, to be slaughtered at  30 months before they can gain a decent amount of raw fat.


All that said, I have done very well in raw wild game, minus the fatty raw organs, so, maybe, the issue of raw  fat is not the end of the world as long as one is NOT doing RZC.
“The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back.”
? Abigail Van Buren

Offline eveheart

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,315
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #65 on: November 01, 2015, 05:27:25 am »
I have read a little so far. So GCB promotes 100% raw asides from milk and eats one food at a time. He seems to promote fruit a lot more than AV does, yes? I remember reading from AV's book that if you eat too much fruit you won't heal among other problems with too much fruit. Is he pro-eggs? For wild edibles he says you can just taste test and if you like it eat it, even with mushrooms. Has anyone done this? I confess I've done this with unidentified berries, never mushrooms though.

In a sense, GCB promotes nothing but a taste- and smell-based, mindful way of eating unprocessed foods. By paying attention to the subtle signals from the taste and smell organs, the appetite is directed to eat the right amounts of the right foods at the right time. Even such a small amount of processing such as mixing, mashing, or seasoning foods is enough to "fool" your taste and smell into mis-identifying signals. Anopsologists have a great body of writings about the experience of instinctotherapie, and those writings contain many observations about particular foods, but I don't think those observations are a promotion of anything. At least, not the way I read it.
"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,049
  • Country: at
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: AV diet
« Reply #66 on: November 01, 2015, 05:31:03 am »
Burger is more right than AV on so many things. The issue of eating raw foods, one at a time, ie mono-eating makes sense. I always notice that if I mix raw foods in one  meal, or if I add any spices, however raw, to my raw animal foods, that I always inevitably eat a lot more than I should.
“The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back.”
? Abigail Van Buren

Offline sabertooth

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,805
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #67 on: November 01, 2015, 08:48:45 am »
Unfortunately, evil UK authorities used the BSE crisis which hit  lots of grainfed cattle-herds to force ALL cattle, even 100% grassfed cattle, to be slaughtered at  30 months before they can gain a decent amount of raw fat.


All that said, I have done very well in raw wild game, minus the fatty raw organs, so, maybe, the issue of raw  fat is not the end of the world as long as one is NOT doing RZC.

This is a big part of a big problem that often goes unnoticed in Low carb circles.

 The practice of slaughtering at thirty months is the end of the world for those who rely on the fat and flesh of those animals as primary sustenance. The fact is that 30 month animals are not fully grown, and their tissues may not be as fortified with the accumulative nutrients and minerals as fully grown mature animals in their prime. So people who are attempting VLC while getting the majority of their calories from a limited selection of parts from immature animals will not be able to obtain optimal nutrition.

Traditional hunters would often go for the older fatter males, that lived without boarders and could forage for whatever it needed...... now most people have to chose parts and pieces from thirty month old adolescent animals that have been castrated and confined to limited pasture range with often limited variety of forage.

As for Burger, I think that his basic guidelines for honing ones instinct are a good staring point, but could be greatly expanded when it comes to seeking out the sources of ones nutrients. There is great value in going directly to the source, and paying close attention to the plants and animals you will be using for food while they are alive and in their natural environment. Over long periods of time observing the differences in quality within a wide variety of potential food sources one may begin to develop the kind of wisdom of discernment which guided our paleo ancestors in their own food choices.

No amount of dietary advise from strangers on the internet could possibly replace the kind of experience that one can get from foraging for ones own food, or killing your own animals while using ones own god given senses..... tasting the blood and inspecting the tissues before deciding if its good enough to eat it..... then if it is good, as the apex predator, one could chose to take only the best parts and leave the rest for the scavengers... like the grizzly bears who when fattening for winter will discard much of the lean meat of the fish they catch.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2015, 08:58:44 am by sabertooth »
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,049
  • Country: at
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: AV diet
« Reply #68 on: November 01, 2015, 04:13:30 pm »
You are correct, but unfortunately Austria has harsh laws as regards hunting. Poaching leads to fines and imprisonment, and a hunting-licence costs the earth. Basically, it is only worth hunting if you are a farmer. Only farmers have the free  time to spend on hunting and I suspect they get discounts on the licences etc.
“The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back.”
? Abigail Van Buren

Offline dariorpl

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 836
  • Country: ar
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #69 on: November 01, 2015, 11:29:24 pm »
Unfortunately, evil UK authorities used the BSE crisis which hit  lots of grainfed cattle-herds to force ALL cattle, even 100% grassfed cattle, to be slaughtered at  30 months before they can gain a decent amount of raw fat.

That's insane.
We now live in a world where medicine destroys health, law destroys justice, education destroys knowledge, government destroys order, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and banking destroys the economy

Offline ciervo-chaman

  • Buffalo Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #70 on: July 18, 2016, 03:11:29 pm »
After getting access to members area of ww2live.com i can tell that tylerdurden is misquoting aajonus on a lot of things. Are you up to the research and modifications he made from years 2005-2013? Huge changes.

All things that are being said here are mostly lies. I recommend that you investigate what was his late info.

Just too many misquotes here.

Offline ciervo-chaman

  • Buffalo Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #71 on: July 18, 2016, 03:26:42 pm »
For example.. He recommend 1/4 tsp maximum honey, and if you have taste for it. He says when you are healthy you don't need it anymore.

He says dairy "allergies" (detox) stops after you finish detoxing. And that he was not having more symptoms just few years before his death.
Same with eggs.

Re veggie juice. He says he drank 1 cup per week cause he was already healed. It was a need for ill people only

Also he says that if you can eat all your meat high, is much better than fresh.

Well.. I felt like comenting this cause i like his work. I feel in tune with his findings

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,049
  • Country: at
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: AV diet
« Reply #72 on: July 18, 2016, 04:04:56 pm »
A lot of people ruined their lives to some extent by listening to AV's detox theories, myself included. I am sure that some people do fine on AV's artificial diet, but not many. AV also recommended things like overating. In actual fact, since raw foods mostly contain more nutrients than cooked foods(due to heating/cooking depleting nutrients), it is not necessary to eat as much on a RVAF diet.

As regards AV's claims in his first 2 books, I am right on target there. I remember reading the recipes and finding out that most contained raw dairy in them. Perhaps AV's revised edition of WWTL in the last few years is significantly different from the earlier books, I admit I haven't read it.
“The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back.”
? Abigail Van Buren

Offline ciervo-chaman

  • Buffalo Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #73 on: July 18, 2016, 05:35:50 pm »
That is why i comment thst here. This is primal diet forum.

And overeating was part of the program for sick people too.

I don't know if it is neccessary or not. But he believed being thin could make you very bad due to toxic environment and pollution and cities (not having fats to store environmental and induatrial toxins, due to our actual world.). He cited masai as the healthiest (and they are thin, but in pristine environment)

He did not wrote more books. He wrote "newsletters" and there are like hundreds of hours of lectures by him, and questions made by his patients.

I insist, you are misinterpreting his diet. It's not what you say it is. It is what it is. And there is so much information that even you that are so anti-AV would be surprised to see how much in tune with your actual diet he is.

I will not explain in details what is all about. But i recommend anyone feeling in touch with him, to seek for the latest info.

He didn't wanted to make new books cause it was a waste of money. Internet was better to communicate.

And also.. A lot of people feel blessed by his info and help. I dont believe anyone ruined his life by following a specific diet given by him. You misinterpet his books and believe you are doing primal diet and mainly eating fruits honey cream and nuts. And that is not primal diet. But people tend to look for support for their sugar adiction and found in primaldiet a great excuse.

Primal diet is not a high sugar diet. He never recomended not even starches nor honey nor fruits in high amounts.

Just wanted to make users aware that this forum on primal diet has little to do with real primal diet.

Offline ciervo-chaman

  • Buffalo Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
Re: AV diet
« Reply #74 on: July 18, 2016, 05:44:16 pm »
A lot of people ruined their lives to some extent by listening to AV's detox theories, myself included. I am sure that some people do fine on AV's artificial diet, but not many. AV also recommended things like overating. In actual fact, since raw foods mostly contain more nutrients than cooked foods(due to heating/cooking depleting nutrients), it is not necessary to eat as much on a RVAF diet.

As regards AV's claims in his first 2 books, I am right on target there. I remember reading the recipes and finding out that most contained raw dairy in them. Perhaps AV's revised edition of WWTL in the last few years is significantly different from the earlier books, I admit I haven't read it.

Well, the recipes are not the diet. Are just that, recipes. To make people hunger for meat. That is on his own words.

If you haven't even read the updated versions of his books. Why you quote him so much? Every time i read you saying "aajonus recomendation re something" it is usually something different to what i'm reading from him.

I'm not against you. Just want to give credit to someone that has really helped me understand my body.