Author Topic: Raw Unheated Honey  (Read 101403 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline B.Money

  • Buffalo Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #125 on: January 01, 2011, 06:18:02 am »
lol mud slides.. I like it. Perhaps thats whats going on, I just wonder why the other honey does not cause me issues

Offline actup90

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 851
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #126 on: January 01, 2011, 07:39:20 am »
Each Honey is different, maybe the other "non slickifying" honey is not as potent. Or is just potent in an other aspect.

Offline B.Money

  • Buffalo Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #127 on: January 01, 2011, 10:02:29 am »
how long would you say you would use something that gives you issues like that, until you rule it out as something that is just problematic?

Offline actup90

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 851
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #128 on: January 01, 2011, 11:15:32 am »
Depends on the situation...
I would take that honey for two weeks to a month, then switch to the other for two weeks, then back
Notice how you feel throughout.
Don't torture yourself,  ;) Experimenting is good, and pain is a part of detoxing, but it should be enjoyable for the most part.
If it is a genuine detox you should feel better after intense expelling of toxic matter.

How long have you been eating raw animal foods?

I have not heard of anyone having loose stool due to honey, but it is possible.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 11:21:09 am by actup90 »

Offline B.Money

  • Buffalo Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #129 on: January 01, 2011, 12:12:02 pm »
Well its not even really intense, its just softer and its almost like maybe some is not completely digested---in other words it turns closer to honey consistency lol. Nothing bad though and it does not make me feel bad at all, just softer stools.

Been raw for 6-8 months now. Liver seems to be poorly digested also. I have never heard of this either...weird.

Offline actup90

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 851
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #130 on: January 01, 2011, 02:02:07 pm »
In that case, if you enjoy that variety of honey, I would keep taking it.
Maybe just avoid eating it with meat. I only eat honey with dairy.
Flesh seems to digest best alone for me.

Offline bharminder

  • Elder
  • ****
  • Posts: 333
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #131 on: January 01, 2011, 05:01:55 pm »
I eat stakich honey from stakich.com

it's local to me so i buy it in person, the buckwheat antioxidant honey is fantastic

Offline actup90

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 851
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #132 on: January 02, 2011, 05:35:22 am »
Buckwheat honey is delicious.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #133 on: January 02, 2011, 05:56:45 am »
In that case, if you enjoy that variety of honey, I would keep taking it.
Maybe just avoid eating it with meat. I only eat honey with dairy.
Flesh seems to digest best alone for me.
That's interesting. I digest meat fine when I eat honey with it. Aajonus V. even claimed that "Unheated honey is a wonderful sweet food that helps digest all types of meat." (The Recipe for Living Without Disease, 2nd edition, p. 31)
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline actup90

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 851
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #134 on: January 02, 2011, 06:10:15 am »
Honey with meat does not cause any problems with me.
I just feel that digestion is optimal when I eat honey before and after, instead of during.
Also, the honey is intensely sweet and a totally different taste, I like to savor each alone.
Unless of course I am introducing a newcomer, then I occasionally make honey mixed into sliced up steak... delicious.

Offline actup90

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 851
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #135 on: January 02, 2011, 10:29:16 am »
Today I upped my honey consumption to see what would happen.. still not mixing
I used the WFoods wildflower honey.
Totally loose mud movements, feel good though.
It was like a projectile, Kinda pushed me off the seat LOL ;D

Maybe the digestion is better PP!

It sounds kind of contradictory due to the high sugar content,
but if AVs claims are true that fresh honey is 90% enzymes then I guess that makes sense

Offline B.Money

  • Buffalo Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #136 on: January 02, 2011, 10:57:12 am »
LOL keep us updated to see if it slows down, or what happens.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #137 on: January 02, 2011, 11:20:23 am »
but if AVs claims are true that fresh honey is 90% enzymes then I guess that makes sense

Others believe the claim, but I doubt it. Raw honey spikes my blood glucose almost as much as heated honey. It is interesting that the spike is less, though.

Has he ever revealed the name of the "insulin-like substance" that is supposed to turn the sugar in raw honey into enzymes?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline CHK91

  • Elder
  • ****
  • Posts: 351
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #138 on: January 02, 2011, 11:55:32 am »
Are the benefits of raw honey worth it for those that become hypoglycemic with sugar? ???
All I want is the truth... Just gimme some truth.
"I wanna be the minority."

Offline actup90

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 851
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #139 on: January 02, 2011, 01:19:01 pm »
Are the benefits of raw honey worth it for those that become hypoglycemic with sugar? ???

A careful and mindful approach is always best, but IMO, it is by far a dominant choice as far as condensed sugar is concerned.

Others believe the claim, but I doubt it. Raw honey spikes my blood glucose almost as much as heated honey. It is interesting that the spike is less, though.
Has he ever revealed the name of the "insulin-like substance" that is supposed to turn the sugar in raw honey into enzymes?

Propolis is an insulin like substance i think. My understanding of honey goes like this...

Nectar is produced in the flower
The bees hold the nectar in their mouth, digesting the sugar with their own enzymes.
They either regurgitate it or excrete it via another pathway.
Then we take that and eat it, with a smile this big >  ;D
It is simply predigested sugar from flowers.

But there is something missing... if the cooked product is just sugar then how can the sugar be broken down in the raw state?
maybe the enzymes are just added my the bees to preserve it...

Offline Nation

  • Warrior
  • ****
  • Posts: 284
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #140 on: January 02, 2011, 02:17:53 pm »
I'm a ZC'er and tried raw honey in the last 2 days, 1 lb a day.. my candida symptoms flared up  :'(

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,053
  • Country: at
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #141 on: January 02, 2011, 05:37:24 pm »
When I first went in for RVAF diets, I tried mixing raw meats with raw honeycomb, and it didn't work re digestion. I suppose the reason was that my digestive system was pretty much destroyed at the time.

I also found the combined taste of honeycomb and meat to be absolutely foul.
“The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back.”
? Abigail Van Buren

Offline Rawdietforhealth

  • Egg Thief
  • **
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #142 on: January 02, 2011, 05:57:36 pm »
I have been fighting a bit of a cold/flu for the past two weeks with a cough that would not go away. It is getting better now and I have also used honey and raw honey.  The brand I was able to get was "Honey Gardens - Apitherapy Raw Honey." It is the closest I was able to find to a raw honeycomb. Seems to help.

Offline bharminder

  • Elder
  • ****
  • Posts: 333
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #143 on: January 02, 2011, 08:40:56 pm »
For those who want to eat unheated honey but get teeth problems I recommend brushing your teeth immediately after eating the honey. Since it is very sticky, it can wreck your teeth unless you clean them.

I make it a point before I choose to eat any honey that I will brush my teeth immediately after. If I'm not willing to brush afterward, I won't eat it.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #144 on: January 02, 2011, 10:30:26 pm »
I have been fighting a bit of a cold/flu for the past two weeks with a cough that would not go away. It is getting better now and I have also used honey and raw honey.  The brand I was able to get was "Honey Gardens - Apitherapy Raw Honey." It is the closest I was able to find to a raw honeycomb. Seems to help.
That's a Vermont, USA honey. Do you get that in the Philippines or are you in the USA?

I found what the substance is that has insulin-like activity. It's royal jelly. One of the studies didn't have a positive result, but all the most recent ones did, including a clinical trial in humans.

Royal jelly reduces the serum glucose levels in healthy subjects
Münstedt K, Bargello M, Hauenschild A.
Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Justus-Liebig University Hospital Giessen and Marburg, Giessen, Germany. karsten.muenstedt@gyn.med.uni-giessen.de
J Med Food. 2009 Oct;12(5):1170-2.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19857086

Earlier biological investigations have shown that royal jelly has insulin-like activity. However, there have so far been no clinical trials to support these findings. The objective of the present study was to study the effect of royal jelly ingestion on the glucose metabolism of healthy humans. Twenty volunteers underwent the standardized oral glucose tolerance test (OGTT) and afterwards a second OGTT after ingestion of 20 g of royal jelly. Serum glucose levels after 2 hours and the area under the curve for glucose were significantly lower (P = .041) after royal jelly administration. Substances originating from the pharyngeal glands of the honey bee with insulin-like activity are likely to have caused this effect and may thus be, at least partially, responsible for the lowering impact of honey on blood glucose levels. The identification of the substances that seem to act even after passage through the human stomach could lead to the development of new concepts in diabetology.


Biol Pharm Bull. 2008 Nov;31(11):2103-7.
Royal jelly ameliorates insulin resistance in fructose-drinking rats.
Zamami Y, Takatori S, Goda M, Koyama T, Iwatani Y, Jin X, Takai-Doi S, Kawasaki H.
Department of Clinical Pharmaceutical Science, Graduate School of Medicine, Dentistry and Pharmaceutical Sciences, Okayama University, Okayama, Japan.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18981581

Abstract
Royal jelly (RJ) is known to contain excellent nutrition and a variety of biological activities. The present study was designed to investigate the effects of RJ on insulin resistance (hyperinsulinemia) in fructose-drinking rats (FDR; insulin resistance animal model). Male Wistar rats (6 weeks old) received 15% fructose solution in drinking water for 8 weeks. FDR showed significant increases in plasma levels of insulin and triglyceride, Homeostasis Model Assessment ratio (HOMA-R, an index of insulin resistance), and systolic blood pressure, but not blood glucose levels, when compared with control rats. RJ (100, 300 mg/kg, p.o.) treatment for 8 weeks significantly decreased the plasma levels of insulin and triglyceride, HOMA-R, without affecting blood glucose or total cholesterol levels and tended to lower systolic blood pressure. In isolated and perfused mesenteric vascular beds of FDR, RJ treatment resulted in a significant reduction in sympathetic nerve-mediated vasoconstrictor response to periarterial nerve stimulation (PNS) and tended to increase the calcitonin gene-related peptide (CGRP) nerve-mediated vasodilator response to PNS, compared with those in untreated FDR. However, RJ treatment did not significantly affect norepinephrine-induced vasoconstriction or CGRP-induced vasodilation. These results suggest that RJ could be an effective functional food to prevent insulin resistance associated with the development of hypertension.

PMID: 18981581 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Free Article


Yakugaku Zasshi. 2007 Nov;127(11):1877-82.
[Effect of long-term treatment with royal jelly on insulin resistance in Otsuka Long-Evans Tokushima Fatty (OLETF) rats].
[Article in Japanese]
Nomura M, Maruo N, Zamami Y, Takatori S, Doi S, Kawasaki H.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17978564

Department of Clinical Pharmaceutical Science, Graduate School of Medicine, Dentistry and Pharmaceutical Sciences, Okayama University, Tsushima-naka, Okayama City, Japan.
Abstract
Royal jelly (RJ) is known to have abundant nutritional properties and a variety of biological activities. To investigate the effects of RJ on insulin resistance, 10-week-old Otsuka Long-Evans Tokushima Fatty (OLETF) rats, a type 2 diabetic model, were treated for 4 weeks with RJ (10, 30, and 300 mg/kg, p.o.). RJ treatment tended to decrease systolic blood pressure and significantly decreased serum levels of insulin and the Homeostasis Model Assessment ratio, an index of insulin resistance. In isolated and perfused mesenteric vascular beds of OLETF rats, RJ treatment resulted in significant reduction of the sympathetic nerve-mediated vasoconstrictor response to periarterial nerve stimulation (PNS) and potentiation of the calcitonin gene-related peptide (CGRP) nerve-mediated vasodilator response to PNS, compared with that in untreated OLETF rats. However, RJ treatment did not significantly affect norepinephrine-induced vasoconstriction and CGRP-induced vasodilation. These results suggest that RJ could be an effective and functional food to prevent the development of insulin resistance.


Augmentation of wound healing by royal jelly (RJ) in streptozotocin-diabetic rats.
Jpn J Pharmacol. 1990 Jul;53(3):331-7.
Department of Pharmacology, Nihon University School of Dentistry, Matsudo, Japan.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2391765?dopt=Abstract

Chronically diabetic rats prepared by a single i.v. injection of streptozotocin were used to study whether royal jelly (RJ) possesses a hypoglycemic reaction and whether it can augment wound healing. Oral RJ administration of 10, 100 and 1000 mg/kg/day did not show any insulin-like activity (the hypoglycemic reaction). RJ, however, showed some anti-inflammatory activity by decreasing exudation and collagen formation in granulation tissue formation in the cotton pellet method. RJ also shortened the healing period of desquamated skin lesions. Thus, RJ possesses an anti-inflammatory action and is able to augment wound healing, but does not have an insulin-like action in streptozotocin-diabetic rats.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 10:42:38 pm by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline David Howe

  • Egg Thief
  • **
  • Posts: 31
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #145 on: January 02, 2011, 10:34:47 pm »
For those who want to eat unheated honey but get teeth problems I recommend brushing your teeth immediately after eating the honey. Since it is very sticky, it can wreck your teeth unless you clean them.

I make it a point before I choose to eat any honey that I will brush my teeth immediately after. If I'm not willing to brush afterward, I won't eat it.

What is your source of information, bharminder? Raw Honey is an excellent choice for fighting cavities and all other dental setbacks.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #146 on: January 02, 2011, 10:41:31 pm »
My experience matches bharminder's. Raw honey gives me negative dental effects instead of positive. I don't know if having plenty of royal jelly in the honey would offset the negative dental effects of raw honey as AV suggests, but the studies are interesting.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline David Howe

  • Egg Thief
  • **
  • Posts: 31
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #147 on: January 02, 2011, 10:59:52 pm »
I beg to differ.

Unless you and bharminder only live and breathe on Raw Honey, the cause of your problem might be something else.

Excess intake of proteins can cause acidic reactions which might be the cause. A few good tips would be to brush your teeth after your meals and swishing.

Raw honey remains palatable for 100s and thousands of years because of its antibacterial and antifungal properties.

Offline Rawdietforhealth

  • Egg Thief
  • **
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #148 on: January 02, 2011, 11:05:57 pm »
That's a Vermont, USA honey. Do you get that in the Philippines or are you in the USA?

I found what the substance is that has insulin-like activity. It's royal jelly. One of the studies didn't have a positive result, but all the most recent ones did, including a clinical trial in humans.



I am in the Philippines and found it here in a health food store.

Offline David Howe

  • Egg Thief
  • **
  • Posts: 31
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #149 on: January 03, 2011, 12:22:43 am »
So where do you guys get your Raw Honey from? Any Bee Pollen / Royal Jelly Lovers out there?