Author Topic: Raw Unheated Honey  (Read 98720 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mentisafer

  • Scavenger
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2009, 11:10:10 am »
well, Really Raw brand is actually as thick as butter, it will not move unless you scoop it out; Heavenly Organics has the label unheated, but who knows if it's true, it is really liquid like egg whites. And also it is supposed to be from the Himalayas. Long ways to America, shouldn't it be solid? Sounds suspicious.
Tyler, do you know why the people at Primal Diet Forum think Really Raw Honey isn't unheated?
"Man shall not live by bread allone" Matthew 3:16-4:4

Offline Ioanna

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,339
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2009, 11:20:50 am »
I wonder if 'unheated' has some technical definition that it is just not heat beyond a certain temperature...IDK.  If it really means unheated, then the Heavenly Organics should be truly a raw honey.  The Manuka honey that was labeled raw was more than twice as expensive if that indicates anything.  I know what you mean though about the label 'raw'... like almonds that are now pasteurized are labeled 'raw' when they don't have salt, etc on them.  

As for viscosity... I was told that any honey that is liquid has been heated and filtered and definitely not a truly raw honey.  but I once went to a farmers market where there was a farmer with what he said was raw honey and it was like something that comes in a plastic bear in the store kind of consistency.  I told him that I thought honey had to have been heated/filtered to look that way, but he insisted it came straight from the hive.  I checked out his website too, claims to be truly 'straight from the hive' and fresh.  He did also sell a jar of honey combined with bee pollen and another of honey combined with ... something else that is supposed to be antibacterial... drawing a blank... anyway, those items are in a jar and have a very thick consistency that I would not even consider a liquid... it's soft, but it's not moving unless you scoop it out with a spoon.

Offline Ioanna

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,339
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2009, 11:27:00 am »
I couldn't believe that anything sold in a store is really raw anyway.. labels are so deceiving. I guess your body can tell you if it is good for you or not though.

When I used to eat honey, I got it from a farmer's market, and even then I was skeptical... but it was really good!!!  

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,515
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2009, 11:27:12 am »
Anyone who wants to know what truly raw honey flows like needs to just buy some honeycomb.  The proof is right there.

Offline Ioanna

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,339
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2009, 11:41:33 am »
now I want honey!...  I don't think it would work for me though :(

ck, where do you get honey comb?  I don't think that was available even at the farmer's market, but I could be wrong.

Offline Sully

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,517
  • Country: 00
  • Gender: Male
  • Hey.
    • View Profile
    • http://wildfoods.weebly.com/
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2009, 12:06:59 pm »
now I want honey!...  I don't think it would work for me though :(

ck, where do you get honey comb?  I don't think that was available even at the farmer's market, but I could be wrong.

http://www.kallashoney.com/retail.html     Check the specialty items for honey comb.
Sully

Offline mentisafer

  • Scavenger
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2009, 12:13:10 pm »
I had honeycomb before; I actually lived with the monks who had it and except for the wax, the honey was pretty liquid, probably even more than regular honey; I remember they had a transparent honey and a dark amber. They said it depends on what flower the bees eat from. And I also remember sometimes the honey had a slightly putrid smell mixed in. Nothing really bad, more like the smell of blood in ground meat.
"Man shall not live by bread allone" Matthew 3:16-4:4

Offline Hannibal

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,261
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2009, 02:41:08 pm »
In Poland it's quite good, because I can buy directly from trustworthy local beekeepers; I never buy in shops
When the honey is fresh it's liquid - after several months it cristalizes.
It's also important what kind of food the bees are given - white sugar (quite often) or honey
Raw honeycombs are the best, but it's very important that the cells are covered (not open) and the honey that is inside is dense and mature. I asked many people who eat honeycombs and they do not eat wax - they chew it and throw away
I eat the whole honeycomb, as only that way I can get all the nutrients.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Online TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,823
  • Country: at
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2009, 06:24:11 pm »
well, Really Raw brand is actually as thick as butter, it will not move unless you scoop it out; Heavenly Organics has the label unheated, but who knows if it's true, it is really liquid like egg whites. And also it is supposed to be from the Himalayas. Long ways to America, shouldn't it be solid? Sounds suspicious.
Tyler, do you know why the people at Primal Diet Forum think Really Raw Honey isn't unheated?

All I can do is give you the original e-mails:-

"I first started using "Really Raw Honey". I didn't even finish the jar off. It
seemed to give me a lot of problems, like what seemed to be hypoglycemic attacks
especially. I would eat some, by itself or with butter as in the "honey/butter
combination", and within 5 to 10 minutes I would feel like my blood sugar would
shoot downwards. A few times it was bad enough that I couldn't sit up and had to
lay down while eating something to revive me. I started wondering if it really
was unheated/raw, but I never experienced a blood sugar spike before the drop
downwards. In the books, AV mentions that there is some sort of insulin in
unheated honey, so I thought perhaps it was this that was causing my problems.
If I was already hungry and ate some of the "Really Raw Honey", the subsequent
hypoglycemic attack would be particularly bad, i.e., adding insulin to a blood
stream already low in sugar is going to cause it to drop even lower.

I've been using "Honey Pacifica" brand and so far I haven't had these problems.
I've been meaning to check my blood sugar while eating the honey to see what the
readings come out like."

As far as "Really Raw Honey" goes, I don't know if it is really raw or not, but
I certainly don't plan on using in the future. On the plus side, I thought it
tasted great."
and :- "I had the same problem with Really Raw years ago. Really the usual lies."

My view is this:- avoid buying any raw honey, even honeycomb, from continents away. For example, I'm extremely wary of honeycomb sold from New Zealand but will happily buy honeycomb from local farmers' markets as I'm more sure of its rawness and high-quality. The thing is that international laws encourage producers to apply pasteurisation(despite the fact that raw honeycomb lasts forever). At any rate, I have had awful issues with every kind of so-called "raw-labelled" liquid honey imaginable, within the UK. I think it's because of UK laws which allow honey to be labelled raw even if it's heated to 80 degrees Celsius for a short time.

I have heard from a beekeeper that it is possible to produce genuinely raw liquid honey in a jar but he said he would have to charge much more as it would require doing it by hand instead of producing it via a machine.
“The aim of intelligence is to put the whole goddamned human race out of work.”
? Robert Sheckley

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,203
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2009, 06:31:49 am »
Quote
I would eat some, by itself or with butter as in the "honey/butter
combination", and within 5 to 10 minutes I would feel like my blood sugar would
shoot downwards. A few times it was bad enough that I couldn't sit up and had to
lay down while eating something to revive me. I started wondering if it really
was unheated/raw, but I never experienced a blood sugar spike before the drop
downwards.
What would account for hypoglycemia from honey? My understanding is that heated honey can cause the opposite--hypERglycemia.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline RawZi

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,052
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
  • Need I say more?
    • View Profile
    • my twitter
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2009, 06:44:39 am »
"... I didn't even finish the jar off. It seemed to give me a lot of problems, like what seemed to be hypoglycemic attacks especially. I would eat some, by itself or with butter as in the "honey/butter combination", and within 5 to 10 minutes I would feel like my blood sugar would shoot downwards. A few times it was bad enough that I couldn't sit up and had to lay down while eating something to revive me. I started wondering if it really was unheated/raw, but I never experienced a blood sugar spike before the drop downwards. In the books, AV mentions that there is some sort of insulin in unheated honey, so I thought perhaps it was this that was causing my problems.

    As I understand the primal diet, the honey butter is 1:8 honey to butter.  The honey is never eaten alone, is it?  The writer of this letter sounds like he/she's practicing a different diet.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Online TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,823
  • Country: at
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2009, 06:49:17 am »
Primal Dieters do eat raw honey on its own, although the honey /butter combination is popular.
“The aim of intelligence is to put the whole goddamned human race out of work.”
? Robert Sheckley

Offline RawZi

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,052
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
  • Need I say more?
    • View Profile
    • my twitter
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2009, 07:10:15 am »
Primal Dieters do eat raw honey on its own, although the honey /butter combination is popular.

    I kind of fluctuate between primal and paleo.  Honey alone?  Like a bear?  Some how I thought we were supposed to focus on fat with everything.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline Hannibal

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,261
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2009, 05:13:05 pm »
I asked this question several times, but nobody knew the answer -
Is it any proof that insulin-like substance converts 90% of the carbs in nectar into enzymes?
If this statement is true that will make a lot of difference re counting carbs.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline sanborn

  • Egg Thief
  • **
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2010, 02:30:16 pm »
Hello, Honey lovers!  The availability of truly unheated, uncooked, not smoked honey depends somewhat on where you live.  Aajonus did an investigation of what the various companies ACTUALLY DO in harvesting their honey.  REALLY RAW is on the list as being really raw and unheated !  Heavenly organics is not.  There are some very reliable companies that ship also such as the one I use (I am in southern California).  Aajonus' list of producers and distributors covers much more than unheated honey - coconut cream, royal jelly, raw fresh dairy, never frozen, unsalted cheese etc, beef, buffalo & poultry sources, and much more - it is 10 pages of small print with urls, email address, physical addresses, phone #s and a few words about what they do.  The link is on the site that features his work: http://www.wewant2live.com/site/811618/product/RPD-01

Online TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,823
  • Country: at
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2010, 07:05:37 pm »
Hmm, various posts on the  Primal Diet yahoo group were extremely critical of Really Raw Honey suggesting it wasn't really raw at all.
“The aim of intelligence is to put the whole goddamned human race out of work.”
? Robert Sheckley

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,203
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2010, 12:00:16 pm »
    I kind of fluctuate between primal and paleo.  Honey alone?  ...
fyi: bears eat the fat-rich bee grubs along with the honey and comb (as do hunter-gatherers). A nature show I watched said that the grubs are actually their favorite part to eat. Could that be why Aajonus recommends butter with honey? Too bad grub comb isn't sold commercially in the USA. It might be fun to try once.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline RawZi

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,052
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
  • Need I say more?
    • View Profile
    • my twitter
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2010, 12:14:34 pm »
Hmm, various posts on the  Primal Diet yahoo group were extremely critical of Really Raw Honey suggesting it wasn't really raw at all.

    I wish you could try it.  It's my son's favorite.  We try other raw honeys, but they just taste like sugar at best.  He depends on honey as it's a good deal of his diet.  He is making improvements to his health.  He was not before this honey.

fyi: bears eat the fat-rich bee grubs along with the honey and comb (as do hunter-gatherers). A nature show I watched said that the grubs are actually their favorite part to eat. Could that be why Aajonus recommends butter with honey? Too bad grub comb isn't sold commercially in the USA. It might be fun to try once.

    I would love to try eating grubs.  I don't often run across hives and have not since I started eating (raw) animal products.  I did hear bugs are full of the best fats.  I imagine young beings like grubs would have even better fats.

I asked this question several times, but nobody knew the answer -
Is it any proof that insulin-like substance converts 90% of the carbs in nectar into enzymes?
If this statement is true that will make a lot of difference re counting carbs.

    Must be true.  It grows good stuff on my fruit and milk (separately).
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline extralizard13

  • Trapper
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2010, 12:46:30 pm »
Yes. Just make sure its only honey comb, not honey comb in a jar surrounded by liquid honey.

What does that indicate? I happened to have had a jar of it in the house before I found out about this diet. It looks interesting to try, so I bought it. Mine is Gunter's Pure Honey Comb.

Online TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,823
  • Country: at
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2010, 06:02:32 pm »
What does that indicate? I happened to have had a jar of it in the house before I found out about this diet. It looks interesting to try, so I bought it. Mine is Gunter's Pure Honey Comb.
  Any honey put in a jar is 99.9% of the time likely to have been heated beforehand, judging from my own experience. A beekeeper explained to me once that to get the honey into the jar without significant heating, you have to do all the honey production manually instead of via machines, which was not cost-effective for him, really.
“The aim of intelligence is to put the whole goddamned human race out of work.”
? Robert Sheckley

Offline cliff

  • Bear Hunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 193
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2010, 12:32:31 am »
Unless the honey states on the jar it was cold packed it was most likley heated via centrifuge to make it runny enough to bottle. http://honeypacifica.com/coldpacked.htm is a great source for cold packed honey, i really recommend the wild flower variety

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,967
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2010, 04:52:57 am »
  Any honey put in a jar is 99.9% of the time likely to have been heated beforehand, judging from my own experience. A beekeeper explained to me once that to get the honey into the jar without significant heating, you have to do all the honey production manually instead of via machines, which was not cost-effective for him, really.
I spoke with a local honey producer and he told me that the honey starts to solidify as it ages in the season, so the best thing to do is to buy a large bucket of whatever you figure you need till next season. Price is a lot cheaper as you are not paying for bottles and filling them etc. When it starts to harden it must be heated to around 120 so it will pour. So I suggest contacting the beekeeper at the start of the season and telling them you want honey that has not been heated at all. I am sure they will oblige. Just look them up in the yellow pages or go to a local health food store or two till you find one that buys local honey and find out where they buy it from. It will be marked on the bottle. It's worth it. BTW there are different varieties and basically pick whichever flavour you like the most. I would tend to avoid honey from areas where there is GMO crops grown like corn. Otherwise any stories about one type of honey as being superior is likely to be marketing.

Just because non-pasteurized is on the bottle doesn't mean it is not heated. Ayurveda says you should never heat honey to a temperature higher than you could drink it as it will cause skin problems (Pitta aggravation) It essentially becomes a bit toxic. 
Honey is considered as an Anupan in Ayurveda, which means it is considered one of a group of foods that act as a carryer of nutrients to the cells. In the case of honey it carries nutrients to the brain.

Butter is also an Anupan which carries nutrients to the muscles.. In Ayurveda they do not say raw butter but ghee which is clarified butter. Not sure about raw butter but I like it and believe in my tiny little mind that it is superior. I will check with the Vaidya on that one all the same.
Cheers
Al

Offline Paleo Donk

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 664
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #47 on: March 09, 2010, 04:57:12 am »
Unless the honey states on the jar it was cold packed it was most likley heated via centrifuge to make it runny enough to bottle. http://honeypacifica.com/coldpacked.htm is a great source for cold packed honey, i really recommend the wild flower variety

Anybody ordered from here?

They look pretty legit.

Offline cliff

  • Bear Hunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 193
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #48 on: March 09, 2010, 11:31:55 pm »
Anybody ordered from here?

They look pretty legit.

I purchase it from my local farmers market, they have some of the best honey i have ever had.  I've tried pretty much all the cold pack flavors and you can't go wrong with any of them, the avocado honey has a very unique taste somewhat akin to spaghettio sauce but a little sweeter.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,203
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2010, 07:15:16 am »
Shot out to Tyler. He said that the raw honeycomb that is not clear, but colored and has bits of pollen and stuff in it, is the best and he was right. Best tasting honey I've ever had. Damned expensive, but worth it for an occasional treat. Still seems to act like sugar on me, but seemed slightly less so than regular raw honey and much less so than heated honey. Hard to tell based on the small amounts I ate at one time and small overall quantity, though. I fouled up my blood sugar test, so I'll have to get more test sticks and try that again some day.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb