Author Topic: Raw Unheated Honey  (Read 101385 times)

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Offline Roselene

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #50 on: March 10, 2010, 02:29:29 pm »
Anybody ordered from here?

They look pretty legit.

I bought a gallon of their cold hand packed Brazilian pepper tree honey.  It was good and it lasted me over six months.

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #51 on: March 10, 2010, 09:01:54 pm »
Shot out to Tyler. He said that the raw honeycomb that is not clear, but colored and has bits of pollen and stuff in it, is the best and he was right. Best tasting honey I've ever had. Damned expensive, but worth it for an occasional treat. Still seems to act like sugar on me, but seemed slightly less so than regular raw honey and much less so than heated honey. Hard to tell based on the small amounts I ate at one time and small overall quantity, though. I fouled up my blood sugar test, so I'll have to get more test sticks and try that again some day.

So did you get the raw cold-packed honey from the link above? Also, the honey seems relatively cheap if you look at it as a per calorie cost. 6lbs for $26 plus shipping. So around 5-6 dollars a pound. One pound will give you (at 3 calories a gram) 1350 calories so a good 200 calories for every dollar, so not bad. Actually, the fact that its so cheap makes me think it isn't as good as it I would think.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2010, 10:02:20 pm »
For other members interested in raw honeycomb, I would suggest going after the dark-coloured heather honeycomb. In the UK, at least, it`s considered the best tasting honeycomb of all. I`ve been told by some RPDers that there really is genuinely raw honey found within jars but every single attempt I had in the past with numerous brands of  jarred so-called "raw" honey turned out to be a big mistake on my part, heathwise, so I remain sceptical of most claims of rawness for liquid honey.  Of course, it may simply be that I don`t get such a massive immediate  blood-sugar hike and other symptoms  from raw honeycomb, because of the massive amounts of wax in it.
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Offline cliff

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #53 on: March 10, 2010, 11:12:50 pm »
the fact that its so cheap makes me think it isn't as good as it I would think.

I've tried a lot of store bought honey and different local honeys when i was in hawaii,  honey pacifica has the best stuff I've tried so far and makes me feel the best.  Looking back at the tone of my post it would seem like i work for these guys but i just happen to be a loyal follower of there great products :)

Offline Roselene

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2010, 12:30:19 am »
I`ve been told by some RPDers that there really is genuinely raw honey found within jars but every single attempt I had in the past with numerous brands of  jarred so-called "raw" honey turned out to be a big mistake on my part, heathwise, so I remain sceptical of most claims of rawness for liquid honey.

Try desert honey.  The moisture content is so low, that within a day or two it becomes too solid.  It's not spoonable or pourable at all. 

Quote
Of course, it may simply be that I don`t get such a massive immediate  blood-sugar hike and other symptoms  from raw honeycomb, because of the massive amounts of wax in it.

Are you eating the honey alone these times or with fruit, vegetables or meat?  As far as wax, I eat honey with fat.  It's more like eating fat with honey, as for the ratios.  The hikes, eaten alone, would likely happen to almost anyone. 

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2010, 01:19:53 am »
 I don`t like the taste at all when mixing honey with other foods, especially meats, so prefer to just eat it alone.

Interesting info re desert honey. Thanks
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2010, 04:10:39 am »
I don`t like the taste at all when mixing honey with other foods, especially meats, so prefer to just eat it alone.
So it's obvious where that spike of blood sugar comes from.
It's of paramount importance to mix the honey with fat - I mix it with mutton/ lamb suet and it's a very toothsome combination.
Honeycomb already contains fat (wax)
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2010, 05:03:11 am »
So it's obvious where that spike of blood sugar comes from.
It's of paramount importance to mix the honey with fat - I mix it with mutton/ lamb suet and it's a very toothsome combination.
Honeycomb already contains fat (wax)
  Seems after a check it is partially made of fat. Still I do better eating the honeycomb plus the wax than mixing it with suet and other kinds of raw fats.
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #58 on: March 12, 2010, 09:25:55 am »
So did you get the raw cold-packed honey from the link above?
No. Here are the differences in appearance between Honey Pacifica, standard honeycomb and truly raw honeycomb below:

Honey Pacifica


This is how standard honeycomb I find in the stores


This is the closest thing I could find online to the darker honeycomb that Tyler gets in the
UK at the time I was looking: (http://homegrown-colorado.com)

I found this image today of unprocessed raw honey with plenty of natural material on top:

and this slightly darker-looking honeycomb:


Eating fat with honey actually does make some sense, because traditionally fatty grubcomb is eaten with honeycomb and some cultures also mix fats with fruits (such as the Yupik and Lakota mixing fat with berries), and there is the afore-implied moderating effect of certain animal fats on insulin spikes (“These data support the hypothesis that n-3 fatty acids protect from high-fat diet-induced hepatic insulin resistance,” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17251275).
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 09:52:34 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
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Offline KD

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #59 on: March 12, 2010, 09:43:01 am »


I found this image today of unprocessed raw honey with plenty of natural material on top: http://www.domoresuckless.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/p-640-480-57511621-fb59-491b-948f-9d0b883595f0.jpeg




This is the "Really Raw" honey that has been disputed on this site before. My 2 cents is I find it to be fairly viable, but its a little sweet.

Recently I purchased a brand called Honey Gardens:Apitherapy which is a local New England product. Its a wildflower honey. I know "raw" can be as unregulated and meaningless as "natural" unfortunately, but this specificially says this product "has never been heated or filtered, and thus retains the beneficial traces of pollen, propolis and beeswax...enzymes..."

from memory it seems pretty much like the Really Raw brand, but it still seems to create some mild symptoms (tiredness) so I gather it still isn't good for my suspected candida issues, if that is helpful to anyone thinking of adding honey. I was just adding it as a small amount/enzyme, and not as a significant carb source.

on another note, it says honey is liquid and then crystallizes, so I am not as doubtful that all jarred honeys must be heated.




Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #60 on: March 12, 2010, 10:02:44 am »
This is the "Really Raw" honey that has been disputed on this site before. My 2 cents is I find it to be fairly viable, but its a little sweet.

Recently I purchased a brand called Honey Gardens:Apitherapy which is a local New England product.
Yes, that's the brand I've bought several times from the local apiary south of where I live in Vermont. The Honey Pacifica looks very similar.

Quote
Its a wildflower honey.
Yes, they have these specific varieties:

Northern wildflower - summer
Northern Goldenrod - fall
Orange Blossom Honey
Blueberry honey

Quote
I know "raw" can be as unregulated and meaningless as "natural" unfortunately, but this specificially says this product "has never been heated or filtered, and thus retains the beneficial traces of pollen, propolis and beeswax...enzymes..."
Yes, but the Colorado raw honeycomb that is supposedly made by the bees right in the can is definitely different and tastier, though the Honey Gardens honey is very tasty too and cheaper.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #61 on: May 03, 2010, 06:22:14 pm »
Not sure if they just added this on their website but honey pacifica is heated up to 100 degrees F, so not raw.

http://honeypacifica.com/regular.htm

Quote
Honey Pacifica is proud to produce various raw honey varieties ourself, ensuring a gourmet level of quality and integrity. As always our honey is raw and unfiltered. We drive the bees to various locations throughout California directly to the floral sources. The flavors of each raw honey depend on what flowers are blooming with nectar at the time the bees are there. In order to maintain the highest level of taste and nutrition in our raw unfiltered honey, we never heat our honey to more than 100°; just enough to get it into the jar. Beware of USDA “Grade A labels”. It simply means the honey has been heated and filtered enough to be considered processed. Larger companies have been known to heat their honey up to 140° while filtering it thoroughly. While this qualifies them for “Grade A” labels, it also hurts the quality of their honey. Label or not, our raw unfiltered honey is the best.

Offline mors01

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #62 on: May 03, 2010, 07:11:21 pm »
This is not new. They sell both heated and unheated honey. They call the unheated honey "cold packed"

http://honeypacifica.com/coldpacked.htm

Not sure if they just added this on their website but honey pacifica is heated up to 100 degrees F, so not raw.

http://honeypacifica.com/regular.htm


Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #63 on: May 04, 2010, 04:13:47 am »
Ah, yes thanks for pointing out my mistake. I'm still curious as to why their honey seems so cheap.

Offline RawZi

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #64 on: May 04, 2010, 05:17:49 pm »
    It is from boxes, not from trees.

    
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Offline cliff

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #65 on: May 21, 2010, 12:23:47 am »
Not sure if they just added this on their website but honey pacifica is heated up to 100 degrees F, so not raw.


How is under 100 degrees not raw?  From my research there honey is as raw as it gets unless you have your own hive or know some one with a hive

Neglected to read the post above, my brother who has talked to these guys extensively assured me the cold packed honey is never heated.

The honeys cheap because these guys are legit and aren't interested in ripping people off.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 01:23:11 am by cliff »

Offline kurite

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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #67 on: May 21, 2010, 11:11:21 am »
Heated to 100 degrees would presumably be heated more than honey that's not heated at all (which is called cold-packed or hand-packed).

My brother in law gave me a taste of some raw Vermont honey that tastes better than the Honey Gardens Apitherapy brand -- Champlain Valley Apiaries. It comes from bees that gather mainly from legumes. It's centrifuge-extracted (http://www.champlainvalleyhoney.com/slideshow.htm) instead of hand-packed, however, but I seem to handle it a little better than even the Honey Gardens, which I can handle better than heated honey. It's interesting that in the video it already looks opaque as it gets poured into the jars. I thought that only occurred after crystallization, but I guess not.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline reyyzl

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #68 on: May 21, 2010, 06:36:20 pm »
From the first chapter, free online of we want to live -

Quote
  I think of the many internal and external wounds I've seen heal rapidly with application and large consumption of unheated honeys. And how miraculously unheated honeys stimulate digestion. "Okay. honeys labeled 'Unheated' can't be heated over beehive temperature on a hot day - that's 92.8 Fahrenheit. On hot days. bees fan the honey with their wings to keep the honey temperature below 92.8 F. In the body. 80-90% of unheated honey turns into enzymes for digestion. assimilation and utilization. Whereas, honeys that are labeled 'Raw' or 'Uncooked' can be heated to 160 which they do to thin the honey for quicker filtering and bottling for more profits. 'Raw' or 'Uncooked' honeys mainly turn into radical blood sugar. 'Unheated' is the key word with honey. You can eat as much unheated honey as you want, as long as you have a taste for it.

Even the centrifuge process can raise the temperature of some of the honey.
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2010, 05:38:35 am »
Even the centrifuge process can raise the temperature of some of the honey.
[/quote]
Yes, I know. That's why I said "however." Sorry I wasn't more clear.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline wildbee

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #70 on: August 10, 2010, 12:15:14 pm »
My headaches on this subject come from these requirements:

Raw, which is a description that I want to mean not heated above 30/35 C max.
Organic, relating to the bees forage and also any disease treatments used.
No sugar feeding, I just don't trust that this will not end up in the honey I eat and I also think it's unethical.
Unfiltered, pollen, bee parts and wax left in.

This reduces the profitability of the honey because a lot of organic land is needed, organic disease treatment is probably more expensive, less available or effective. Less honey per hive can be harvested because they will need to eat it themselves rather than sugar. The honey is less saleable because of it's appearance (floating bits) and varied consistency.

Many bee keepers have explained that they can't sell me 'raw' honey because it will 'set like a rock' and they 'only warm it to get it into the jar'. I finally managed to get a bucket of raw honey after I worked voluntarily for a bee keeper during an extracting session and took it away before he could filter it, even then he keeps offering to warm it back up again for me to make it runny and it fails on the other points. I have been stirring it gently every week or so for 3 months and it is still malleable, I understand you couldn't do that if it was jarred in a supermarket and the mainstream honey buyers obviously don't care enough about these things to pay for the extra work involved.

I don't see how my ideal bee keeping could be done on a competitively commercial basis because the niche market is so small, but surely there is enough demand to make it worth one bee keepers while!

Offline RawZi

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #71 on: August 10, 2010, 05:12:30 pm »
    I heard some wade in a room of it, and pack it with their hands rather than pour.  How long you been bee keeping?
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Offline wildbee

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #72 on: August 10, 2010, 11:44:58 pm »
I don't call myself a bee keeper yet, I've been tagging along since April and watching what they do.

The wading and hand packing sounds like a very messy job

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #73 on: August 12, 2010, 11:40:07 am »
    I've never seen it with my own eyes, so I can't really tell you anything more.  This beekeeper told me he has to do it that way to keep it completely unheated and does do it that way.
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Offline wildbee

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Re: Raw Unheated Honey
« Reply #74 on: August 13, 2010, 08:07:37 am »
That's really good that he cares about it enough to make that effort, I've found some genuine raw Hawaiian honey but it's too expensive for me considering the amount I want to eat.