Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Health => Topic started by: Brady on January 29, 2010, 01:02:11 am
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Hi, I'm a newbie to the site from Northern Ireland. The thread below is from Allexperts where I got some excellent advice from the RPG, however he suggested I post it here also to let you lot give me some pointers in regaining my health. I am open to all suggestions so please chime in.
Expert: RawPalaeoGuy
Subject: Candida / Leaky gut / CFS / ME
Question: QUESTION: Hi RPG,
I suffer from the above plus multiple chemical sensitivity and extreme sensitivity to EMFs (Electromagnetic Fields). Six months ago I was down to 8 1/2 stone and felt I was going to die then someone told me about the Primal Diet, after just 2 days it was like wakingfrom a coma! I had strength and clarity for the first time in about two years and gained a stone in 3 monhs. This continues for about two months then symptoms gradually returned and I am very tired again although nowhere near as bad as I was. I had to give up raw dairy (I eat a little raw butter), raw honey, raw egg whites and minimize fruit as they all exasberrated my condition. My diet at the momemt is basically:
Green veggie juice
Raw Meat (beef, venison, lamb, pheasant, turkey_
Raw fish (Mackeral, hering, salmon, prawns, scallops, sardines)
Raw egg yokes
Cold pressed Olive oil
Raw Butter
Avocadoes (minimal as it causes fatigue)
Cocnut Cream (minimal as it causes fatigue)
I know the return of symptoms could be detox and the body repairing it self but I'm not sure. I struggle with constipation but regularly eat lots of high meat which helps sometimes. Like Aajonus suggests I drink very little water as it doesn't seem to satisfy my thirst but even with the veggie juice I get extremely dehydrated especially during the night and in the morning. I do agress with aajonus on the 'no-fibre' thing as I do much better without it, however I fear even the small amount of Carbs in the green veggie juice feeds the Candida so I'm unsure how to proceed. While I live in Australia I drank the water of young green cocnuts which really hydrated me but having returned home (Northern Ireland I do not have access to these. I would like to go zero carb as I feel best when eating raw meat but the thirst makes it impossible.
I am planning to purchase human hookworms and whipworms in he new year as I've they are having astonishing effects on people with ME like conditions, and this is without a proper diet like mine so their is hope.
Anyway I would like to hear you feedback and suggestions.
Other info:
Age: 27
Sex: Male
Weight: 10 st
Blood Type: O (I do believe there's something to this)
Many Thanks
Conor
ANSWER: OK, you appear to have had some of the issues I faced pre-rawpalaeodiet. Getting rid of most raw dairy products was a very good idea as it's notorious re causing CFS issues. But, you really need to get rid of the raw butter as well. I've heard many rawists claim that they did OK on raw butter but not on other raw dairy, but, in the end, they invariably admitted, that in the long-term their health suffered on it. Sure, raw butter contains much less lactose and less casein, but people forget that they can develop minor inflammation and other issues from even tiny amounts - while things may seem OK in the short-term, a food-intolerance to a food, even if it is very mild indeed, can disrupt the body's attempts at healing itself, thus slowing healing down considerably, perhaps to zero.In short, I would only ever recommend raw dairy if that person was fine on ALL types of raw dairy, not just raw butter.
Next issue:- Other than raw dairy, the next biggest problem Primal Dieters face is the raw veggie-juice. Numerous people have complained over the years that they would develop health-problems such as nutritional deficiencies if they drank more than a big glass of raw veggie-juice a day. So, AV's standard recommendation of 25% of the diet consisting of raw veggie-juice is a bad idea. You see, raw veg contains antinutrients - these, unlike grains, are not a problem as they are only in trace amounts in solid, raw veg - but when you juice the veg, you not only make the nutrients in the veg more bioavailable but the antinutrients as well - plus, few rawists enjoy eating raw solid veg much, given taste issues, so they simply can never eat the vast amounts of solid, raw veggies that they would ingest via using a juicer. Now, some people claim they do fine on raw veggie-juice as long as they don't overdo the 1 glass a day practice, but, given your current health-problems and the fact that so many RVAFers have issues with it, I'd remove it from the diet to see what happens.
Re coconut cream:- I never indulged in the Primal Diet practice of eating raw coconut cream as it was so time-consuming. A recent thread on rawpaleoforum on the subject suggested that many people get serious digestive issues if they ate more than a certain amount. My own view is that it's always a bad idea to indulge in foods that have been processed, even if the food is raw(the only exception I can think of is "high-meat", but "high-meat" isn't really refined/processed as such, it's just food that's been left to age).So, my view is, ditch the coconut cream and the cold-pressed olive-oil. You're far better off consuming raw animal fats such as suet, marrow, tongue, fatty muscle-meats like raw mutton . I personally find raw marrow more suitable for me, but others swear by raw suet. Try all of these and see what works for you. Since avocadoes affect you in some way, remove them for now.
Yes, "high-meat" often is useful re easing digestion. As for Aajonus and his recommendation to avoid water, I find that a bit dubious, myself. I mean, distilled water does indeed leach off nutrients and is to be avoided, but normal water, and mineral-water doesn't leach off nutrients to the extent Aajonus claims. 1 thought:- I've heard that putting a little salt into one's mineral-water helps retain the water in one's body.
That said, I do think the extensive thirst symptoms are a sign of something else. I don't know much re the candida issue, there are people far more experienced with this subject on the rawpaleoforum website. I gather that raw zero-carb works a treat but the transition involves issues(perhaps you could do raw VLC instead?). You would be best placed to post on rawpaleoforum about this. I also believe there are various products such as tea-tree oil(?) which are routinely recommended for candida, but you'll have to check with the ex-Candida sufferers on that board.
Re type O:- Well, multiple anecdotal evidence on rawpaleoforum and the rawpaleodiet yahoo group all indicate the opposite, IMO. We've had type Bs do very badly on any grains/dairy and so on. Besides, D'Adamo has completely changed round his diet, nowadays, and recommends in his new book something quite different now, all because of the frequent criticisms of his previous dietary theories.
HTH,
RPG.
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Hi RPG,
Many thanks for this great info. Will definately implement these suggestions and see how I go.
Its encouraging to know you recovered from similar issues I have. Did this include chemical and EMF sensitivity? Where can I read about your health issues and recovery in more detail?
Also I eat raw organic mushrooms (Portabello), what is your experince with mushrooms on the RPD?
Cheers
Conor
Answer: No, I never experienced electromagnetic radiation sensitivity, though I think I had some nasty reactions to certain chemicals over the years(for example, as a child, I would routinely feel violently ill after travelling in one of the school vans presumably because of various chemicals that were in the seats), and there were a few other times I had some chemical sensitivity, can't recall them offhand right now. I have occasionally come across a few RPDers who had gotten EMF sensitivity on SAD diets, prior to going rawpalaeo. I'm not sure if/how they cured themselves of it, as the topic is so rarely mentioned on RVAF diet forums.You'll have to ask questions on those websites.
Re mushrooms:- My experience on RPD diets was that I became more sensitive to the antinutrients found in mushrooms and nuts(I developed minor stomach-aches if I overindulged them). I did a trick where I would soak nuts for 24 hours before eating them but that only solved the problem a little. There were a few mushroom species and nuts that I didn't ahve issues with, but generally speaking, I avoid them now - besides, they're not really ideal nutrition, from my POV.
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isnt tyler rawpaleoguy?
You will most definitely recover, plenty of us have, just remember to include plenty of organs & use spices or sauces, if you dont like the taste
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Hello Brady. Welcome to the forum.
I'm one of the Candida sufferers that RPG refers to in his response.
To make a long story short I've developed a large number of clinically documented food allergies as well as undocumented intolerances over the last 9ish years. I believe I was suffering from other problems prior to this (almost 10 years worth) but was not diagnosed until 2001. Doing large amounts of research into Candida I'm convinced that I developed an overgrowth in my teens which eventually went systemic. The Candida has a detrimental effect on my gut resulting in leaky gut and finally my food allergies.
I came to this forum as a last resort of sorts. I'd gradually moved towards a high meat & low carb diet to avoid the continuous stomach issues I was having. I looked to the other extreme-an all meat diet-to see if I could live that way or I'd have to suffer some vegetation to maintain my relative health. I found this was a viable diet if you consume an adequate amount of meat and becomes much healthier if supplemented with organ meat. Raw was the last step and an obvious & easy one; the body naturally craves rarer and rarer meat if eating a cooked carnivorous diet.
Following a raw carnivorous diet I have my health & drive back. All of the problems I attribute to the systemic Candida overgrowth are gone or reducing over time:
-I used to be sick 2 to 3 times a month with an infection or other more serious issue every ~8-10 weeks. I no longer get protracted illnesses and the couple times I've felt under the weather were less than a day, usually less than 6 hours. I wouldn't even count this as getting sick but it's a little less extreme sounding than saying I no longer get sick.
-I used to have the worst cravings for carbohydrate containing foods, particularly sweets. It was an addiction really. After a bit of difficulty during the transition period (alleviated greatly by more fat) I've had almost no cravings. When I do notice a craving it's my body telling me it wants more fat.
-I had the worst brainfog for the longest time. I actually dropped out of college because it became so bad it made it hard to follow along. This has cleared up dramatically over the last 5 months; I only notice it a bit if I've gone a long time without eating and this might even be normal for most people.
-My energy levels had been really low. I had grown to depend on the 24-hr Claritin D I took for environmental (pollen, dust, cats, dogs, etc.) allergies to give me the energy boost I needed to function. I no longer take any medication, including the Claritin D, and have very minimal allergy issues while having fantastic energy all day long.
-I'm also completely food allergy free so long as I stick to 100% grassfed meat and fat. I no longer get cramps, diarrhea, constipation, bloating, or any of the other problems I'd get when I ate anything. I don't even get a runny nose. The only time's I've had problems was when I ate meat from an animal that got grain in it's diet (some or all) or surprisingly each time I've made pemmican. I'm just glad that I've found a way that works for me, and is very healthy, before all my options were exhausted.
I fully recommend that you turn to a raw carnivorous diet right away. If you care to get daring after you've equalized your body and your health this is your call but this is a great way to take burden off your system so it can begin the healing process. :)
Edit:
I'm hesitant to post this but will for your knowledge; even if it's off topic and could elicit off-topic responses.
I, like my wife, have a fair amount of psychic ability. The area we both enjoy using this gift is ghost hunting. We both can pick up when an entity is near, my wife more than me, and I can sense direction while she can't. We can also feel the energy from water and high EMF fields.
Since I've been eating a raw carnivorous diet this sense is diminished (but not gone ;D). You might very well notice a greater tolerance to EMF if you change diet, but of course your mileage might vary.
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I also suffer from EMF sensitivity. My car and work place are the major sources of concern. I found this site very helpful..
http://www.electrical-sensitivity.info
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use spices or sauces, if you dont like the taste
-1
Edit:
I'm hesitant to post this but will for your knowledge; even if it's off topic and could elicit off-topic responses.
I, like my wife, have a fair amount of psychic ability. The area we both enjoy using this gift is ghost hunting. We both can pick up when an entity is near, my wife more than me, and I can sense direction while she can't. We can also feel the energy from water and high EMF fields.
Since I've been eating a raw carnivorous diet this sense is diminished (but not gone ;D). You might very well notice a greater tolerance to EMF if you change diet, but of course your mileage might vary.
So going raw carnivorous healed your brain and allowed it to function more rationally? ;)
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hi djr_81
Many thanks for this and I would love to hear more about your journey where can I read about it in more detail? also I have a few questions if you don't mind?
1/ what selections of meat do you eat?
2/ what are your sources of fat?
3/ how often do you eat? / time of day? / quantities?
4/ how much water do you drink?
5/ bowel movements- frequency/size/ease?
6/ Energy levels- would you have the enegy to play sport or go to gym?
7/ did you suffer from any liver pain?
8/ could you give me a typical days schedule from when you wake to when you sleep?
I am pretty keen on going zero carb but my main issues are dehydration, constipation and fatigue (almost bed ridden some days) I find water to be a poor hydrator and low sugar fruits to be very good but I really want to get of fruit altogether as it agrevates my condition. I definately agree with what you say about carb cravings being alleviated by fat and I experience this with coconut cream however it leaves me extremely fatigued so I want to get off it as well. The animal fat I'm eating (fatty meat, bone marrow) however doesn't seem to quench my thirst or kiil the carb cravings as well. Any suggestions? I not been able to get grass fed suet or mutton yet. I am also reluctant to drink water to close to meals as I don't want to dilute my hcl and hamper my already poor digestion which leaves me dehydrated for a few hours after i eat, especially if i eat lots of red meat. At the moment I eat two meals:
10-11am selection of meat, foul and bone marrow
6-7pm seletion of wild caught cold water oily fish
In between I will chew on a little celery (spitting out the pulp), have a cuccumber or maybe a bell pepper (all to quench my thirst)
Would aprecaite you help mate and perhqaps a few of the other zero carbers could join in.
Cheers
Brady
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I once had jock itch. Stumbled into my mother in law doing vco detox. Read the book coconut cures. Did the vco detox for 3 days. jock itch gone. Call me impatient. This is a 100% fat diet with 0 protein and 0 carb. Uber extreme. My brother did 4 of these to get rid of his candida and ice cream addiction See http://tinyurl.com/vcodetox
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hi djr_81
Many thanks for this and I would love to hear more about your journey where can I read about it in more detail? also I have a few questions if you don't mind?
Not a problem. Like the others I'm here to share my experiences and help others reclaim their health so ask away. :)
Link to my journal. (http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/journals/ramblings-of-a-madman/)
1/ what selections of meat do you eat?
I mostly eat grassfed beef chuck with additional grassfed beef suet.
I also eat wild deer (venison) when available. I have a number of friends and in-laws who hunt it so have good availability to it. I'm actually going to start training with a bow this spring and hopefully be proficient enough to hunt in the fall. I might wait another year for the hunting though if I don't feel confident that I'll make a clean shot.
Lastly I try to get a good assortment of organs when I can. I personally enjoy heart, tongue and liver. I dry them out a bit until they're a bit tough on the outside but still moist inside.
2/ what are your sources of fat?
The intramuscular fat in the beef chuck (one of the fattiest cuts on the animal) with supplemental suet fat. I've eaten marrow fat before but prefer to supplement with suet.
3/ how often do you eat? / time of day? / quantities?
I eat twice a day most days. Lunch time (anywhere from 10AM-3PM, usually about 1PM) and dinner time (5:30PM-8PM, usually about 6:30PM). I try to not eat to late as I don't digest it as well lying down.
I've recently increased my energy output (exercising again which I'd stopped with the serious cold outside-I'm doing it inside now) so have had a commensurate increase in food in. I'm eating 2 1/2 to 3 pounds of food in a given day now. I was eating 1 1/2-2 pounds of food.
4/ how much water do you drink?
At least 48oz of water a day. I'll vary day to day but my body lets me know when I need more water.
I drink quite a bit of water in the mornings. I also drink throughout my workday. I try to avoid any water a half hour before or an hour after eating as I'm of the mind it impairs digestion somewhat.
5/ bowel movements- frequency/size/ease?
Really depends on fat intake and overall food intake to energy usage.
If I'm getting enough fat and not eating much more food than the energy I use it's a minimal bowel movement (I don't know how you'd estimate a size here-maybe if formed into a ball it's be a 2 1/2" diameter?)which comes out without much effort. If I'm not getting enough fat it's harder to pass but about the same volume. If I'm eating more than I need the bulk goes up.
I go to the bathroom once a day most days. Some days might be two or three times that day (if I ate too much in general or maybe ate to much fat). Some days I might not go at all.
6/ Energy levels- would you have the enegy to play sport or go to gym?
After adaptation and with enough fat, yes definitely.
The keto-adaption process is hard on the body and you'll notice diminished energy and performance. I tried to keep up my morning running schedule throughout my adaptation and this was too difficult. I did go out most days and get my run in but it was slower and more labored than usual. A few days I missed completely.
Now if I don't get enough fat I notice a marked decrease in energy and have more trouble keeping myself going with a sport.
I was doing regular (2-3 times a week) 13 mile bike rides around my town after work last fall with daily morning jogging/running and noticed no energy problems so it doesn't seem to be a concern.
7/ did you suffer from any liver pain?
I did very frequently as a result of my food allergies. I was frankly resigned to the fact that I was going to lose the function of it at some point in my life since the pain was persistent enough. It wasn't a sharp pain often, usually dull, but definitely there 50% of the time.
I have not had this pain at all since changing my diet. :)
8/ could you give me a typical days schedule from when you wake to when you sleep?
This is typical as of last week:
Wake - 7:00AM
Morning cycle on bike - 7:00-7:15AM
Morning prep (Cutting up food for lunch, possibly taking a shower, getting dressed, spending a couple minutes with my wife before work, etc.) - 7:15AM-8:15AM
Drive to work - 8:15AM-8:45AM (15 minute buffer for traffic ;))
Work (includes lunch somewhere in there) - 9:00AM-5:00PM
Drive home - 5:00PM-5:30PM
Misc. (TV, reading, spending time with my wife, etc.) - 5:30-9:30PM (Dinner in there somewhere)
Bed - 9:30PM-10:00PM
Not a very busy life but my wife and I are homebodies who enjoy the simple things. :)
I am pretty keen on going zero carb but my main issues are dehydration, constipation and fatigue (almost bed ridden some days) I find water to be a poor hydrator and low sugar fruits to be very good but I really want to get of fruit altogether as it agrevates my condition. I definately agree with what you say about carb cravings being alleviated by fat and I experience this with coconut cream however it leaves me extremely fatigued so I want to get off it as well. The animal fat I'm eating (fatty meat, bone marrow) however doesn't seem to quench my thirst or kiil the carb cravings as well. Any suggestions? I not been able to get grass fed suet or mutton yet. I am also reluctant to drink water to close to meals as I don't want to dilute my hcl and hamper my already poor digestion which leaves me dehydrated for a few hours after i eat, especially if i eat lots of red meat. At the moment I eat two meals:
10-11am selection of meat, foul and bone marrow
6-7pm seletion of wild caught cold water oily fish
In between I will chew on a little celery (spitting out the pulp), have a cuccumber or maybe a bell pepper (all to quench my thirst)
Would aprecaite you help mate and perhqaps a few of the other zero carbers could join in.
In my experience you'll hydrate better with the water if it's got a bit of sea salt in it to help with your electrolytes. My house has naturally hard water so I don't add any to my water but when I drink bottled water I do tend to add.
You sound like you're in the throes of keto-adaption at the moment. I can't really suggest much that will make it easier other than letting you know I went through the same issues and you just need to persevere. It's going to be hard but the short-term misery is so much better than the long-term problems with the Candida overgrowth.
I do recommend that you do not eat any fruits or vegetables if you're fighting Candida. It's best to go all-out now and then add things back in when you are healed in the future (I'm strongly considering adding in some berries after a couple years but will see when I get there). I'd definitely cut out the coconut cream at the very least; so many on this board seem to have issues with it why chance it?
Is your first meal your large meal of the day? I'd make the large meal of the day the red meat meal as it's fattier and better for your healing IMO. If you want to have oily fish as your other meal by all means do so just make sure you're making the fattiest meal the big meal. :)
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Dan,
Many thanks for this comprehensive response. It is very encouraging to see that you are overcoming your health challenges and thriving. Its stories like your taht keep my going when time are tough.
Is your first meal your large meal of the day? I'd make the large meal of the day the red meat meal as it's fattier and better for your healing IMO. If you want to have oily fish as your other meal by all means do so just make sure you're making the fattiest meal the big meal. :)
Yes my first meal is the largest. However I don’t thing I was eating enough fat so I managed to get 6 llbs of suet (grass fed in summer / silage & grain fed in winter) and started eating it yesterday with my morning meat meal. I noticed my dehydration was very much improved (kinda back up what Aajonus says about dehydration being more dilapidation) .
I started reading through your journal with relish, great stuff! However one question comes to mind, why do yourself and other zero carbers partake in the eating of tallow and pemmican when they are not really raw and appear to cause problems, not to mention the lipid peroxides produced by heating fat. Why not just eat it all raw (not heated or dry)? I got the butcher to mince my suet so it just melts in my mouth, just an idea.
Also I take bitter herbs to improve digestion and increase bile flow, any experience with these?
What about clays?
Sorry I am a bit slow in responding but I have to limit my computer time due to my electrosensitivity or pay the price.
Many thanks
Brady
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one question comes to mind, why do yourself and other zero carbers partake in the eating of tallow and pemmican when they are not really raw and appear to cause problems, not to mention the lipid peroxides produced by heating fat.
I'll fix the glitch like so: "they are not really raw and appear to cause problems to Tyler/RPG".
The answer to your question is: we get well when we eat tallow and pemmican.
We do this because we feel sick when we eat heated fat.
Why not just eat it all raw (not heated or dry)?
Because if it is not dried it gives me the shits. Dr. Harris discovered an allergen in raw meat that is neutralized by drying - something to do with albumen.
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Yes my first meal is the largest. However I don’t thing I was eating enough fat so I managed to get 6 llbs of suet (grass fed in summer / silage & grain fed in winter) and started eating it yesterday with my morning meat meal. I noticed my dehydration was very much improved (kinda back up what Aajonus says about dehydration being more dilapidation) .
I'm glad to hear it. Getting enough fat makes a world of difference. :)
I started reading through your journal with relish, great stuff! However one question comes to mind, why do yourself and other zero carbers partake in the eating of tallow and pemmican when they are not really raw and appear to cause problems, not to mention the lipid peroxides produced by heating fat. Why not just eat it all raw (not heated or dry)? I got the butcher to mince my suet so it just melts in my mouth, just an idea.
I tried it in the beginning both for variety and as a travel food which some of us on here use it for. As you saw it obviously doesn't agree with my body.
The last time I did it as for the anecdotal confirmation that it wasn't poor preparation but an immuno-response to the heat applied to the fat source. I hoped I would be wrong and could use it in an emergency but no luck.
I love raw fat and eat all of my fat raw but there are times, like if I was on a business trip, where it would be more convenient to carry portable odorless food. I plan to just bring jerky and suet with me now and deal with the odor of high fat if need be. Health is more important than what others think of my diet.
FWIW I've picked up a cheese shredder and have used this to grate suet into a powder similar to Parmesan cheese to sprinkle on food as well. You could do this in a pinch instead of having the butcher mince it up.
Also I take bitter herbs to improve digestion and increase bile flow, any experience with these?
No. My food allergies had been percolating for quite a few years before I found out about them and quite a few years after finding out about the first set before I found out about most of the fruits & veggies. My family had always been one to eat a very wide and exotic spread of foods so I screwed myself pretty good there. My selection is very limited in what doesn't elicit an immuno-response so I don't push it too often.
What about clays?
I have not yet but I'm definitely game for it. The earth is very healing so I see nothing wrong with ingesting a bit of living earth to help heal. I'll get there eventually.
Sorry I am a bit slow in responding but I have to limit my computer time due to my electrosensitivity or pay the price.
Wow, you are sensitive.
Have you ever considered a USB (or PS2) extender cable to get you a little further from the PC? I'm sure wireless would bother you if you're this sensitive but the extension cable would make it so you're only in the vicinity of very low voltage which might be more tolerable. ;)
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I'll fix the glitch like so: "they are not really raw and appear to cause problems to Tyler/RPG".
The answer to your question is: we get well when we eat tallow and pemmican.
We do this because we feel sick when we eat heated fat.
Because if it is not dried it gives me the shits. Dr. Harris discovered an allergen in raw meat that is neutralized by drying - something to do with albumen.
William, I am extremely happy for you and YOUR health gains on pemmican, but it does not work for everyone and was an absolute DISASTER for me. I would not recommend to anyone with gut issues, and especially not in place of raw meat/fat with all it's water content.
If you are going to write so absolutely, please at least change your pronoun from 'we' to 'I'.
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it does not work for everyone and was an absolute DISASTER for me. I would not recommend to anyone with gut issues, and especially not in place of raw meat/fat with all it's water content.
If you are going to write so absolutely, please at least change your pronoun from 'we' to 'I'.
Forgive my curiosity, but do you have an idea why? I'll assume it was not the jerky, as everyone can eat that.
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Forgive my curiosity, but do you have an idea why? I'll assume it was not the jerky, as everyone can eat that.
thats like assuming everyone can eat fresh meats
which you already said gives you the shits
accept peoples digestive systems work differently?
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thats like assuming everyone can eat fresh meats
which you already said gives you the shits
accept peoples digestive systems work differently?
Not if you are born of the race of Man.
See the fourth and fifth paragraphs of Bear's words of wisdom here:
http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/Bear_s_Words_of_Wisdom_about63.html
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Pigs stomach, ie pig tripe, guaranteed cure for leaky gut & colitis & crohns, look up trichirus whipworm, heals & stitches your stomach back & other autoimmune problems rapidly
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Not if you are born of the race of Man.
See the fourth and fifth paragraphs of Bear's words of wisdom here:
http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/Bear_s_Words_of_Wisdom_about63.html
what
im not reading that novel lol
you remind me of this stubborn vegan i was having a discussion with today
people are different
some people pemmican, others pemmicant
(yes i worked on that all day)
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what
im not reading that novel lol
you remind me of this stubborn vegan i was having a discussion with today
people are different
some people pemmican, others pemmicant
(yes i worked on that all day)
Point him towards anti-nutrients in the form of natural pesticides which prevent ppl from eating the proteins of plants & inability to digest 65% of protein & nutrients from plants ....
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Point him towards anti-nutrients in the form of natural pesticides which prevent ppl from eating the proteins of plants & inability to digest 65% of protein & nutrients from plants ....
There are no proteins in plants.
There are no proteins in plants.
There are no proteins in plants.
There are no proteins in plants.
There are no proteins in plants.
There are no proteins in plants.
There are no proteins in plants.
There are no proteins in plants.
There are no proteins in plants.
There are no proteins in plants.
There are no proteins in plants.
There are no proteins in plants.
There are no proteins in plants.
There are no proteins in plants.
There are no proteins in plants.
There are no proteins in plants.
And there never were.
Autoimmune disease is supposed to be caused by consuming the wrong stuff, so stop, give it a rest, then eat the right stuff. If it doesn't cure the disease, it's not the right stuff.
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So what's the protein in hemp, beans, etc., ?
A raw diet, wont cure autoimmune diseases like crohns & colitis ... you need specific bacteria & nutrition, ie pigs stomach lining
Muscle meats & organs all harbor bacteria specific to that organs function, in addition to more universal beneficial bacteria
Autoimmune diseases, are specific low colonies of bacteria, ie crohns, colitis, require stomach tissue
Marrow & bone specific autoimmune diseases, such as leukaemia require colonies of bacteria specific to those disease's, ie bone marrow & bone filing's
Healing as on any diet, isnt universal, you're quality of life maybe superior, but the raw diet in no way replaces true naturopathy, regardless of the modality they use, whether its herbs or raw meat
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So what's the protein in hemp, beans, etc., ?
There are no proteins in plants.
A raw diet, wont cure autoimmune diseases like crohns & colitis ... you need specific bacteria & nutrition, ie pigs stomach lining
Muscle meats & organs all harbor bacteria specific to that organs function, in addition to more universal beneficial bacteria
OK, so I would eat raw pigs' stomach lining if I had that disease, problem is that there is no known source where I live. Maybe Jessica can find some.
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There are no proteins in plants.
OK, so I would eat raw pigs' stomach lining if I had that disease, problem is that there is no known source where I live. Maybe Jessica can find some.
Can you clarify the proteins in plants such as hemp & beans? A simple no isnt exactly informative lol
I'm not aware of any research stating otherwise, thnx ...
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There are no proteins in plants.
Lets settle this once and for all.. plants carry protein, yes but the absorption
rate in a human body is what should worry you.
"Different proteins have different levels of biological availability (BA) to the human body. They include biological value, net protein utilization, and PDCAAS (Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acids Score). The biological value of plant protein sources is usually considerably lower than animal sources."
Clearly plants are not life sustaining foods for humans. We do not have the digestive capabilities to break
down most vegetables, if not all. Animal-sourced food carries ALL nutrients.minerals.vitamins man needs!
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Lets settle this once and for all.. plants carry protein, yes but the absorption
rate in a human body is what should worry you.
"Different proteins have different levels of biological availability (BA) to the human body. They include biological value, net protein utilization, and PDCAAS (Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acids Score). The biological value of plant protein sources is usually considerably lower than animal sources."
Clearly plants are not life sustaining foods for humans. We do not have the digestive capabilities to break
down most vegetables, if not all. Animal-sourced food carries ALL nutrients.minerals.vitamins man needs!
Thanks for that, malabsorption & uptake is a very significant factor in plant nutrition
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Lets settle this once and for all.. plants carry protein
There is no protein in plants.
There are amino acids in plants, politely and inaccurately called incomplete proteins by crackpot vegetarians, and our bodies cannot metabolize incomplete proteins.
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Since our bodies cannot metabolize incomplete proteins from plants, then its impossible to make any proteins from plants ever. The only way to make proteins is from animals. Thus all vegetarians can never make new proteins ever no matter how hard they try. Thus, they can never grow new muscle or repair tissue. Thanks for the clarification.
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some people pemmican, others pemmicant
(yes i worked on that all day)
That was witty, my dear. :)
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Since our bodies cannot metabolize incomplete proteins from plants, then its impossible to make any proteins from plants ever. The only way to make proteins is from animals. Thus all vegetarians can never make new proteins ever no matter how hard they try. Thus, they can never grow new muscle or repair tissue. Thanks for the clarification.
You underestinate the fiendish cleverness of depraved and crackpot vegetarians, to wit: they combine beans, which contain 19 of the needed amino acids with rice which has all but one of the rest, them add an egg or other source of the missing amino acid, thus abraca pocus: protein!
Before somebody demands the source of abraca pocus, it's from one of the best of Bugs Bunny cartoons.
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dosent you body just pull whatever amino acids are necessary at the time to do a job?
and not rely on something as basic as muscle tissue to muscle tissue conversion?
isnt this partially why raw food is much more beneficial for you body, because when you cook something, anything with amino acids, it gets tough because those amino acids form stronger bonds, ruining the previous acids and making it harder for our bodies to convert then would be if they had been uncooked?
as far as pig stomach...perhaps you have a mexican restaurant in town that makes menudo? with pigs? i dont know im kosher, if we lived near each other i would suggest we settle this "discussion" paleo style with clubs and shit....lol
p.s. you can wield the club, i will wield the shit...
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You underestinate the fiendish cleverness of depraved and crackpot vegetarians, to wit: they combine beans, which contain 19 of the needed amino acids with rice which has all but one of the rest, them add an egg or other source of the missing amino acid, thus abraca pocus: protein!
"ca pocus"? weird
yeah i always underestimate anyone who considers an egg a vegetable: LOL @ vegetarians
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Forgive my curiosity, but do you have an idea why? I'll assume it was not the jerky, as everyone can eat that.
it's not your curiosity, but your condescending attitude that should be requesting forgiveness.. apparently i am not part of the 'everyone' you speak about!
i have made jerky from the same meat that eaten fresh is health-improving and digests fine. the lowest temperature on my dehydrator setting is 85 degrees F (technically 'raw'), that's what I used. the fat i used is not actually rendered tallow, but set at 85 degrees F for an hour or so to get mushy and then blended with the lean. this is the same way i eat extra fat today when i'm in the mood for extra fat, only without the blending part, and i digest that just fine. a surprise to me as well, but it's NOT the fat. the dryer the meat, the worse my symptoms... and they are horrible! again, this is the same meat that is health promoting fresh and even aged is better i have found.
i love hearing everyone's experiences on this forum, but your post attribute what has been successful for you to literally 'everyone'... that's not fair!... it's not fair to newbies... it's not fair to people who read here trying to learn to rebuild their health, and it most certainly is not fair to me!
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A raw diet, wont cure autoimmune diseases like crohns & colitis ... you need specific bacteria & nutrition, ie pigs stomach lining
why do you post this nonsense and ignorant kind of statements??... because you read it somewhere?... because you *think* you read it somewhere?
do you even realize that people who might be trying to cure the above are here, may even be newbies, and may even think there is some reason or truth to your bs claim??
stop posting what YOU don't know, which has been just about all of your post thus far.
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it's not your curiosity, but your condescending attitude that should be requesting forgiveness.. apparently i am not part of the 'everyone' you speak about!
I will try not to be condescending - you may be aware that coping with the tallowphobes distracted me so that I didn't notice it.
i have made jerky from the same meat that eaten fresh is health-improving and digests fine. the lowest temperature on my dehydrator setting is 85 degrees F (technically 'raw'), that's what I used. the dryer the meat, the worse my symptoms... and they are horrible! again, this is the same meat that is health promoting fresh and even aged is better i have found.
Puzzling to me, because the only difference I've read between fresh and dried meat is less water and according to Dr. Harris, neutralized allergen (albumin in blood IIRC).
Have you guessed at what might have caused the difference? What I would wonder at is the dehydrator, for lack of knowledge of any other influence.
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Well said, Ioanna re above posts. As for Crohn's, numerous RVAFers have reported curing it on a rawpalaeodiet judging from past posts on other RVAF diet forums. Same goes for various other auto-immune diseases.It's so much more effective in this regard than other diets, even cooked-palaeodiet. I even heard 1 vague claim by someone that he'd cured himself of a genetic illness(Grave's disease) with the Primal Diet(that is, he stated that he had got rid of the symptoms or reduced them heavily, rather than getting rid of the genetic illness as a whole).
Re water-content:- Part of the reason why cooked foods are less easy to digest is, I suspect, the lower water-content. I'm not sure how that works. Maybe water-content is necessary as a sort of catalyst re digestive-enzymes.
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The main difference between raw meat and jerky is of course the water content and consequently also the taste. It seems to me that it tastes usually better (specifically for newbies) than fresh raw meat because flavors are more concentrated (less water and somewhat oxidised and bacteria and fungi modified surface layer that reminds a little bit cheese or cooked meat...)
This means that it is much easier to overeat jerky than fresh meat and get digestive ailments.
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This means that it is much easier to overeat jerky than fresh meat and get digestive ailments.
I've noticed this myself. I'm of the mind that beyond the taste influencing overeating the lack of water also disrupts a natural stop response (the body actually starts giving water hunger signals but we misinterpret these for regular hunger). Either was it's very easy to overeat on dried food.
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I've noticed this myself. I'm of the mind that beyond the taste influencing overeating the lack of water also disrupts a natural stop response (the body actually starts giving water hunger signals but we misinterpret these for regular hunger). Either was it's very easy to overeat on dried food.
Well, I haven't experienced this with dried fruit.
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Well, I haven't experienced this with dried fruit.
Seriously? I personally noticed this worst with dried fruits. I always overate dried fruit until I was either out of the fruit or felt nauseous. At least now with meat I catch myself and stop eating all the jerky but I never did with dried fruit.
Granted, I'm dealing with Candida so it's very possible this overshadowed natural stops there.
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This means that it is much easier to overeat jerky than fresh meat and get digestive ailments.
The proportion of tallow to jerky is important too, and easy to neglect the tallow - result is painful to me.
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The people who have eaten dried jerky with unrendered animal fat or fat rendered at low temps should probably try some pemmican with fat rendered at its traditional 220-240F. The Del Fuegos got poor results with fat rendered at low temps and additional poor results by simply dipping the jerky into fat without breaking it down into dust first (Nicola just posted this somewhere). Just something to consider if you haven't tried it this way as this traditional method worked very well for both the natives and the euros.
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The people who have eaten dried jerky with unrendered animal fat or fat rendered at low temps should probably try some pemmican with fat rendered at its traditional 220-240F. The Del Fuegos got poor results with fat rendered at low temps and additional poor results by simply dipping the jerky into fat without breaking it down into dust first (Nicola just posted this somewhere). Just something to consider if you haven't tried it this way as this traditional method worked very well for both the natives and the euros.
Actually, a number of rawpalaeos have mentioned that they get fewer symptoms if the temperature re rendering is lower. 1 reason, among many, to doubt Del Fuego's claims.
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Actually, a number of rawpalaeos have mentioned that they get fewer symptoms if the temperature of rendering is lower
Fewer symptoms of what?
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Fewer symptoms of what?
Maldigestion, constipation, general feeling of ill-health, burping etc. etc. etc. And that's just the short-term effects mentioned. No wonder so many rawpalaeos give up on pemmican as a minstay of their diet.
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Actually, a number of rawpalaeos have mentioned that they get fewer symptoms if the temperature re rendering is lower. 1 reason, among many, to doubt Del Fuego's claims.
You're not only doubing DF, but the millions of others that tried it with success. It was only a suggestion for those that have not tried it the traditional way. I don't have a problem with the fact that many of you will fare poorly on it. There are other things that make me doubt DF though, like his statement that his family was angry and that one of his kids started showing signs of autism when they started eating raw meat, though this could be explained by the fact that he would not have given his body enough time to re-adapt to raw meat. There also Danny, from carnivorehealth.com who started to immediately lose his hair whenever he switched from pemmican to lex's ground beef + organ pet food mix.
In any case I think its fascinating that pemmican can work so well for some and so poorly for others and its nice to see so many people here giving it a shot.
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There also Danny, from carnivorehealth.com who started to immediately lose his hair whenever he switched from pemmican to lex's ground beef + organ pet food mix.
Do these people ever try eating a little bit of carbs or do they switch directly from raw ZC to pemmican?
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Maldigestion, constipation, general feeling of ill-health, burping etc. etc. etc. And that's just the short-term effects mentioned. No wonder so many rawpalaeos give up on pemmican as a minstay of their diet.
If that were true, and it made people sick, it would not have been used among Northern peoples - looks like you are cherry-picking data. Again.
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Do these people ever try eating a little bit of carbs or do they switch directly from raw ZC to pemmican?
Not known, but unlikely because the main point of those who try pemmican is better health than they experience on RZC, or they can't really do RZC.
I have never known carbs to improve health.
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I will try not to be condescending
thank you for trying
you may be aware that coping with the tallowphobes distracted me so that I didn't notice it.
there is experience behind their position. 'tallowphobe' is your perspective, maybe you could 'try' to be less condescending by considering their (and my) perspective.
Puzzling to me, because the only difference I've read between fresh and dried meat is less water and according to Dr. Harris, neutralized allergen (albumin in blood IIRC).
I cannot decide which words punctuate my indifference more: 'read', 'Dr.' or 'neutralized allergen'.
I'm a real, alive human being with a real experience in contrast of yours... is that okay??
Have you guessed at what might have caused the difference? What I would wonder at is the dehydrator, for lack of knowledge of any other influence.
anyone's guess is as good as mine. i don't care though... it doesn't work, i don't eat it... period.
seriously??? now we have to evaluate my dehydrator??? my dehydrator is an excalibur, it is supposed to be among the top line of dehydrators AFAIK. I looked into that heavily as the quality was extremely important to me at the time. or maybe i just didn't plug it in right :P
If that were true, and it made people sick, it would not have been used among Northern peoples - looks like you are cherry-picking data. Again.
serious??... again?? by symptoms are FAR worse than any that TD described.
i accept you and your experiences with pemmican. i'm even in awe and sincerely happy for you and what you have overcome. why can't you accept that we are not all 'william'?
I have never known carbs to improve health.
thank you for using the appropriate pronoun! In distinct contrast, fwiw, I have known carbs can be appropriate for improved health.
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thank you for trying
there is experience behind their position. 'tallowphobe' is your perspective, maybe you could 'try' to be less condescending by considering their (and my) perspective.
I cannot decide which words punctuate my indifference more: 'read', 'Dr.' or 'neutralized allergen'.
I'm a real, alive human being with a real experience in contrast of yours... is that okay??
anyone's guess is as good as mine. i don't care though... it doesn't work, i don't eat it... period.
seriously??? now we have to evaluate my dehydrator??? my dehydrator is an excalibur, it is supposed to be among the top line of dehydrators AFAIK. I looked into that heavily as the quality was extremely important to me at the time. or maybe i just didn't plug it in right :P
serious??... again?? by symptoms are FAR worse than any that TD described.
i accept you and your experiences with pemmican. i'm even in awe and sincerely happy for you and what you have overcome. why can't you accept that we are not all 'william'?
thank you for using the appropriate pronoun! In distinct contrast, fwiw, I have known carbs can be appropriate for improved health.
If any person of goodwill can answer this, please do so. I can't.
William
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If any person of goodwill can answer this, please do so. I can't.
Why? Ionna was perfectly civil with her responses and raises very valid issues.
Now, how about we steer back to helping Brady with his transition such as this thread was intended and stop with the pemmican tangent? :)
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When William talks about 'we' he means 'William'
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If that were true, and it made people sick, it would not have been used among Northern peoples - looks like you are cherry-picking data. Again.
People have done all sorts of foolish things throughout history because they were desperate or totally addicted, whether in the form of smoking or eating pemmican or whatever. It's the height of stupidity to suggest that something is good merely because a few Northern peoples happened to have eaten it.
As for moronic claims that pemmican is healthy, one should add that it is surely "less unhealthy" than eating Big Macs or haagen dasz ice-cream or sweets, so people can do better on pemmican than on SAD, but it is most telling that rawists do badly on it, for the most part.
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People have done all sorts of foolish things throughout history because they were desperate or totally addicted, whether in the form of smoking or eating pemmican or whatever. It's the height of stupidity to suggest that something is good merely because a few Northern peoples happened to have eaten it.
As for moronic claims that pemmican is healthy, one should add that it is surely "less unhealthy" than eating Big Macs or haagen dasz ice-cream or sweets, so people can do better on pemmican than on SAD, but it is most telling that rawists do badly on it, for the most part.
Are you denying that pemmican is healing?
BTW you have not yet contributed to the tallow thread.
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Del Fuego's claims as to why pemican healed his wife, and why he reaped such gains in part was due to how digestible pemican was and how little was left undigested to keep alive other organisms like candida, lymes etc. I think that there's a good chance that this is true. Although I don't have experience myself, for I can't get myself to render fat to make it.
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Are you denying that pemmican is healing?
Naturally. As for the thread, I only vaguely glanced at it and saw a poster debunking it(alphagruis? I think).
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Naturally. As for the thread, I only vaguely glanced at it and saw a poster debunking it(alphagruis? I think).
You have outed yourself.
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You have outed yourself.
Not at all, you provided a useless link on how tallow is used to make all sorts of unpleasant processed industrial products. Not relevant to the whole issue of pemmican.
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Has anyone ever passed candida in their stools?
I just went to the bathroom and my stools were covered with white things, i wonder if it's undigested fat or candida. I ate mostly organs and lean meat in the last couple days, barely any fat. I normally digest fat pretty well so i'm leaning towards candida.
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Has anyone ever passed candida in their stools?
I just went to the bathroom and my stools were covered with white things, i wonder if it's undigested fat or candida. I ate mostly organs and lean meat in the last couple days, barely any fat. I normally digest fat pretty well so i'm leaning towards candida.
I haven't personally that I recall but I've read of others who have.
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Now, how about we steer back to helping Brady with his transition such as this thread was intended and stop with the pemmican tangent? :)
Cheers Dan, yeah guys any more advice?
I took a stint at zero carb there but my adrenals don't seem to be strong enough and I crashed even further. It also seems I really need the bioavailable sodium from celery and the like so I have started drinking some green veggie juice again. Water and salt just wasn't working. I hoping the juicing will be temporary till I build up my adrenals again. I also really struggled with suet my liver just couldn't digest that kind of fat yet, again I think my adrenal & thyroid are so weak my protein and fat digestion is nill. As I felt like I was fading away and the fatigue becoming unbearable I started eating some raw butter again and have got more energy as a result, although it still causes some problems it seems to be easier for the liver to metabolise. Again I am hoping this is a temporary measure till I get soem strength back then I wish to go dairy free as I know its bad news in the long term.
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find tasty marrow, soft kind, and grass fed slabs of back fat, and experiment with how much you can eat along with meat. Often I will snack on fat so as to get enough calories in. This snacking lets me ease up at times with how much fat I eat with my two meat meals a day. Meat with no fat digests so quickly for me, but at the expense of what I believe to be causing an insulin response which appears to be more than eating meat with fat-slowing down digestion. My favorite is mixing soft marrow with cut up pieces of meat. Very easy to digest! It all gets easier the longer your body has a chance to convert over to using fat as fuel. But in the meantime listen and experiment to what works for you, and it changes all the time, as it should.
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aging meat has done wonders for me!
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find tasty marrow, soft kind, and grass fed slabs of back fat, and experiment with how much you can eat along with meat. Often I will snack on fat so as to get enough calories in. This snacking lets me ease up at times with how much fat I eat with my two meat meals a day. Meat with no fat digests so quickly for me, but at the expense of what I believe to be causing an insulin response which appears to be more than eating meat with fat-slowing down digestion. My favorite is mixing soft marrow with cut up pieces of meat. Very easy to digest! It all gets easier the longer your body has a chance to convert over to using fat as fuel. But in the meantime listen and experiment to what works for you, and it changes all the time, as it should.
Yeah even bone marrow causes extreme fatigue, it just seems to take all my energy to digest it.
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aging meat has done wonders for me!
'High Meat' is all I ever eat, some of it 7 months old and extremely high in bacteria. I have grown to really like the taste but even this is wipes me out all day.
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I think my adrenals and thyroid are really shot. I was doing pretty well till we hit the depts of winter then I crashed. Has anyone else in the Northern Countries experienced this before? I'm hoping things will start to improve now that Spring has arrived.
Also should I still eat meat and fat even when they cause such fatigue and stress on the body? Or perhaps I should give my organs a rest and get by on green veg juice and butter then slowly introduce meat? Not use as I'm extremely under weight.
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Brady, you've a lot alike problems than I do. Underweight (I'm about 10st too, height 5"7), digestive problems, fatique, northern location etc.
Lack of hydrochloric acid still causes me stomach pains. You can check it from your eye: if you have lilac ring around your pupil (stomach area), you lack it. So your body cannot utilize protein, and therefore, other nutrients well, making the body frustrated, toxic and bad-working. Vegetable juices are helpful for me, especially with raw apple cider vinegar. As well as clay and herbs for some reason.
High-organs or meat, butter&honey, eggs, berries and wild-caught fish might be good and easily digesting food for you, based on my own experience with sicknesses.
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Well if you're eating lots of high-meat maybe your body is having a tough time controlling all the bacteria..? I don't get on well with any meat which isn't fresh.
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So what's the protein in hemp, beans, etc., ?
A raw diet, wont cure autoimmune diseases like crohns & colitis ... you need specific bacteria & nutrition, ie pigs stomach lining
Muscle meats & organs all harbor bacteria specific to that organs function, in addition to more universal beneficial bacteria
Autoimmune diseases, are specific low colonies of bacteria, ie crohns, colitis, require stomach tissue
Marrow & bone specific autoimmune diseases, such as leukaemia require colonies of bacteria specific to those disease's, ie bone marrow & bone filing's
Healing as on any diet, isnt universal, you're quality of life maybe superior, but the raw diet in no way replaces true naturopathy, regardless of the modality they use, whether its herbs or raw meat
for leaky gut:
is beef stomach ok to eat? or it must be pig stomach?
should be eaten raw? how much per day, combined with what? should the stomach be washed before eating?
in eastern europe there is a traditional soup based on beef stomach. i ate that soup when i was child once a week. very delicious: beef stomach, cream, veggies, condiments, salt
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there is some protein in plants but its different from animals