Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Health => Topic started by: goodsamaritan on August 05, 2009, 09:24:23 pm
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“ALL vaccines are causing immediate and delayed, acute and chronic, waxing and waning, impairments to blood flow, throughout the brain and body. This IS causing us all to become chronically ill, sick, and causing brain damages along a continuum of clinically silent to death. This is causing ischemic “strokes”. In some respects, this is also “aging.” Since the damages are microscopic, we cannot see them as they occur. However, we can now see the neurological aftermath of these damages – within hours and days of vaccination – all vaccinations.” — Andrew Moulden MD, PhD
http://www.myhealthblog.org/2009/08/05/vaccinations-are-causing-impaired-blood-flow-ischemia-chronic-illness-disease-and-death-for-us-all/
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Thanks for the link. Good stuff.
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Andrew Moulden MD, PhD
This guy's an MD and has a doctorate, so not exactly the best source of information.
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interesting gs. im planning a trip to thailand this summer and my dad keeps telling me i gotta get all these vaccines. the cdc recommends vaccines for malaria, typhoid, japanese encephalitis, and hepatitis A and B when visiting thailand. my gut says all these vaccines are probably a very bad idea, but im still a little unsure. anyone care to chime in on these specific vaccines or just vaccines in general? any sources about vaccines that i can show my dad? thanks
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Every now and then one finds reports that 1 or 2 in every 1000 or so suffer some complications from vaccines, with some of those even dying.
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Here is one site that talks about different vaccines. There are a lot of articles, some on the first page, but some you may have to go through long list to find what you looking for.
http://www.laleva.org/
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I had hep, typhoid and rabbies jabs before going to thailand/SE asia for 6 months - plus the old malaria tablets with the nasty side effects (they began with D i think). (just remembered 'Doxycyclin'!)
I can't say whether or not they stopped anything for sure, but I do remember just how horrible the malaria tablets made both me and my girlfriend at the time felt - and we stopped taking them after a week. I remember we felt like we were dying emotionally! (and had an unquenchable thirst, plus vivid dreams etc.)
I actually think I made myself far more sick from constantly making bad choices about food, thinking that eating all sorts of dodgy stuff I don't think many locals would touch, under the impression that it would make me superman and adapt 'better'. Instead I got a poorly tummy numerous times, I suspect from pathogenic bacteria, and was badly poisned when I ate 2 closed (yes closed) clams in Vietnam, although I grew up knowing never to do that and why (god people can be stupid). It took me a very very long time to recover from that period of stupidity encompassing most of the time I was away, and the food choices I made. However on a side note, when I returned to the UK it was actually the spark of looking into taking my health into my own hands, because I felt so feeble, and was getting a bad reaction to dairy, and spots (zits). 1 1/2 years later (and a journey through various equally crazy fad diets) here I am, feeling pretty darn amazing, and getting better day by day.
I guess my point is is that my stupidity and not listenning to my bodys obvious signals lead me to real health problems. I think I hurt myself alot more than I think I would have had knowing what I know now about the human body and food (or what I think I know ;) )
I would highly suggest listenning to good samaritan who lives in that part of the world about the vaccinations, although I would love to follow my heart and say don't bother. The only thing stopping me is that people are comparitively weak now-a-days, and you have grown up in an entirely different part of the world which may may not have an effect how your body might respond to such viruses/bacteria/organisms.
I may not know much, but I think its fair to say our ancestors weren't accustomed to flying to different parts of the planet. :)
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thanks for the replies guys. im trying to figure out what im going to do about food over there. i really want to continue eating raw paleo but am unsure of where to find good quality meats. i asked one guy (silentbuddy i think - not sure if he still posts) who is from thailand and he said he eats anything that looks good in the markets (he washes stuff first). has anyone else had experiences eating rpd in thailand or southeast asia? dave, were they raw clams? did you try any raw paleo foods over there?
i kinda want to just go there and eat rpd and not get vaccinated and see how it all pans out, but that seems a little risky. i would assume my immune system is pretty rugged (haven't really been sick since rpd - despite living in an area with prevalent swine flu cases) but i might not have immunity towards certain foreign viruses and bacteria like dave said....
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in the marketing of these vaccines, there is purposeful confusion calling them all vaccines. When actually each should be evaluated.
For example MALARIA is a very real danger in the deep jungles / deep forests of Palawan, Philippines - anyone venturing that deep needs to get a Prophylaxis / Malaria precautionary shot as the type of brain hemorrhage malaria in those deep jungles are totally deadly. Malaria is a centuries old natural population control measure.
The other shots you mentioned I do not believe in them.
Tetanus shots are given only when you are bitten by an animal or get puncture wounds.
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With food:
I have the impression that Thailand has the BEST DURIANS (fatty fruit) and the BEST LANZONES , better than ours in the Philippines. Drown yourself in Durians.
If in the part of Thailand you go to they have wild ocean fish, that should be a good animal food.
Of course in the philippines I know where to get good beef. I'm not sure where to get good beef in thailand. Maybe they have goats in thailand.
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I always wonder what I should do if I ever decide to have children regarding vaccinations... what would you do?
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No no I ate long dead, and then cooked clams! It was at a fish restuarant where you picked some stuff then sit down while its BBQ'd. I picked just 2 baby clams in addition to my meal just to taste, and when my plate came I rather naively thought that because they were both closed that it must have been normal.
This was a while before any raw paleo adventures so I basically ate all sorts of stuff, some I certainly would eat again like some of the most wonderful fresh fish I have ever had, and although it was indeed cooked it was fantastic. I specifically remember a BBQ lobster and also BBQ squid.... fantastic.
However some very dubious looking chicken hearts being roasted by a rather unkempt old lady in the middle of no-where, I wonder what I was thinking. Its not a surprise some travellers get funny looks from the locals - come to think of it I guess its just like me finding the tourists in London taking photos of the weirdest things, eating at unusual places, and buying strange stuff equally funny! How differently I think I might behave if I returned to that part of the world, or anywhere else for that matter :). Hehe listen to me all wise and high and mighty! :D
If I went again I would almost certainly eat 'some' wild fruit, in addition to whatever best animal food I could find, and maybe other bit and bobs - and be generally more cautious about pathogenic bacteria. I have learnt that there are different sorts of bacteria indeed. I would maybe also eat a little cooked, as I have found small amounts here and there don't affect me too much. Its hard to make any real rules as you must really see what is there and make the best choices based on what you know. It is very dangerous to stick to a ridged way of thinking as it blinds you to the facts at that moment. That was my mistake. Be strong, be smart, and look after yourself.
I think the mountains of rice, vast amounts of nuts, processed junk, deep fried this, dodgy meat, and pathogenic that, and not thinking straight could be easily replaced by some rich pickings in the fresh wild fish, wild fruit, whatever etc department, with a little cooking here and there, and a side of smarts.
So thats my advice :)
How long you going for anyway? maybe make a new thread if you want to continue talking about rp in SE Asia, or stick here for vaccination talk :).
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in the marketing of these vaccines, there is purposeful confusion calling them all vaccines. When actually each should be evaluated.
For example MALARIA is a very real danger in the deep jungles / deep forests of Palawan, Philippines - anyone venturing that deep needs to get a Prophylaxis / Malaria precautionary shot as the type of brain hemorrhage malaria in those deep jungles are totally deadly. Malaria is a centuries old natural population control measure.
The other shots you mentioned I do not believe in them.
Tetanus shots are given only when you are bitten by an animal or get puncture wounds.
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With food:
I have the impression that Thailand has the BEST DURIANS (fatty fruit) and the BEST LANZONES , better than ours in the Philippines. Drown yourself in Durians.
If in the part of Thailand you go to they have wild ocean fish, that should be a good animal food.
Of course in the philippines I know where to get good beef. I'm not sure where to get good beef in thailand. Maybe they have goats in thailand.
thanks gs! that's very helpful. i will look into prophylaxis for sure. definitely excited for the thai durians. i'm hoping i can find a good place for beef. planning on bringing lots of suet though.
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How long you going for anyway? maybe make a new thread if you want to continue talking about rp in SE Asia, or stick here for vaccination talk :).
well my family is planning on going for a few weeks but i'll be done with college so im planning on staying after (not sure for how long). also, mostly because of goodsmaritans pics and praise of the Philippines, im probably gonna have to go there too. maybe i can even meet up with him! anyways, good idea, i think i will start a new thread
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I'm really divided personally on the whole vaccination thing. They apparently do prevent a host of diseases. The basic premise behind them seems reasonable to me, even from a paleo perspective: you introduce very small amounts of live pathogens to your body, so it can have the proper antibodies in order to be easily prepared when a large amount of that same pathogen happens to get in your system.
Only problem is all the other crap in the vaccinations are causing all kinds of damage to us, our children, causing autism, and who knows what kind of compounded/propogated effects generations later. And if I understand correctly, a lot of times it's not even live pathogen, it's something synthesized. I would bet that all of us have somewhat reduce mental capacity for having had a host of vaccines, especially at such an age where the mind is developing.
Not only that, and I might get reamed for saying this, I don't consider higher rates of disease induced mortality (naturally of course) a bad thing. I tend to think we are (have) overpopulated our planet. And we are definitely in the process of de-evolving b/c so many people who are weak and ill adapted for survival are busy propogating their genes. Hell, who knows I may rightfully belong in that group (altho I'm not busy reproducing).
Point is, I think it would be better for humanity as a whole, and ultimately MORE humane to let diseases run their course and kill off the weak. Look at the growing numbers of autistic children. Why should we trade vibrant life (for those who would survive disease), for dull life just to make sure everyone survives?
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I always wonder what I should do if I ever decide to have children regarding vaccinations... what would you do?
When my wife and i had not done our research, we vaccinated our first child because we knew nothing. When we evaluated each and every shot and each history and each so called effectivity and each danger... we totally stopped all vaccinations.
My 1st child, vaccinated until 2 years.
2nd child, vaccinated until 6 months (we woke up)
3rd child, absolutely no vaccines and no drugs (she's the healthiest, she's now almost 5)
Any future children... absolutely no vaccinations and no drugs.
It will depend on what your research comes up with.
The school my children go to discourages vaccinations. (Waldorf inspired.)
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They apparently do prevent a host of diseases. The basic premise behind them seems reasonable to me, even from a paleo perspective: you introduce very small amounts of live pathogens to your body, so it can have the proper antibodies in order to be easily prepared when a large amount of that same pathogen happens to get in your system.
They don't prevent the diseases. Look at the graphs - http://www.vaccinationdebate.com/web1.html
Read the book "Vaccination The "Hidden" Facts" written by Ian Sinclair and you will see that vaccines haven't been responsible for decline in mortality because of the diseases.
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Interesting. So many of these diseases were already on the decline. But if there is nothing substantial to the idea of inoculation (vaccinations aside), then why have certain diseases like polio and small pox all but disappead? I guess I would still suspect there to be a small number of people still contracting these various diseases if immunizations were completely ineffective. I mean, people still do eat bad food all over the world, and sanitary conditions are not necessarily kept even in America.
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Interesting. So many of these diseases were already on the decline. But if there is nothing substantial to the idea of inoculation (vaccinations aside), then why have certain diseases like polio and small pox all but disappead? I guess I would still suspect there to be a small number of people still contracting these various diseases if immunizations were completely ineffective. I mean, people still do eat bad food all over the world, and sanitary conditions are not necessarily kept even in America.
Improvement in transportation/distribution of food and especially refrigeration vastly reduced malnutrition.
Malnutrition, not poor sanitation, is the cause of disease.
We adventurous few prove that for ourselves.
If a study were to be done, and it has not AFAIK, I bet it would show that the smallpox genocide of aboriginal North Americans was among the malnourished maize-eaters of the South, and not among the well fed fativorous Northerners. To this day there are more AmerIndians in Canada than in the U.S.A.
(What is the Latin word for fat?)
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What is the Latin word for fat?
pingue, pinguedo, pinguitudo, adeps
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If a study were to be done, and it has not AFAIK, I bet it would show that the smallpox genocide of aboriginal North Americans was among the malnourished maize-eaters of the South, and not among the well fed fativorous Northerners.
well that's just not true. smallpox impacted virtually all tribes in the new world. the plains indians might have been a little less susceptible due to their more paleo diet but by no means did all the plains indians have immunity to smallpox and other european diseases.
A better argument, in my opinion, is that smallpox was a disease created by populations that didn't eat as healthy and/or lived in overcrowded, unnatural environments (europeans at the time)
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Pinguvore just doesn't sound right, especially since there is a place called Pingo National Park in Stefansson country.
http://www.pc.gc.ca/docs/v-g/pingo/index_e.asp - Note the weather!
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Let's clear one thing up.
Diseases ravage wildlife populations from time to time, and it's not all due to poor nutrition. To think that a raw paleo diet (or any diet) is perfect protection from infectious disease is
LAUGHABLY stupid.
There, I said it.
And I meant it.
And anyone who says any different, is also LAUGHABLY stupid.
For the record. :)
That doesn't mean nutrition can't improve the odds of surviving infectious disease. However, to think that any diet is all the protection you need...holy CRAP, that's dumb. I can hardly even put into WORDS how stupid that is. Period.
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To think that a raw paleo diet (or any diet) is perfect protection from infectious disease
But who think like that?
I think that diseases are befeficial when we eat good things like on rawpaleodiet - infections are the easiest way to cleanse ourselves
But if we eat shits, take antibiotics and lots of other drugs than diseases could be harmful
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Let's clear one thing up.
Diseases ravage wildlife populations from time to time, and it's not all due to poor nutrition. To think that a raw paleo diet (or any diet) is perfect protection from infectious disease is
LAUGHABLY stupid.
Disease marks bones.
Bones of paleolithic man show no such marks.
Malnutrition is the only explanation of disease; if you have a better one, we would all be interested.
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Disease marks bones.
Bones of paleolithic man show no such marks.
Malnutrition is the only explanation of disease; if you have a better one, we would all be interested.
Paleo Man did not live in crowded cities, where the swine flu, or typhoid, or the Plague, or AIDS could spread easily from person to person. People fly from continent to continent all the time now. In Paleo times, the spread of disease was a much slower process. The fact is, most really dangerous human infectious diseases came from animals. AIDS, anthrax, smallpox, mad cow disease...these all come from animals. In paleo times, animals were not domesticated, so this particular method could not happen. I have nothing against domestication of livestock, I just realize that we have to be prepared for the diseases they can give to humans.
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Paleo Man did not live in crowded cities, where the swine flu, or typhoid, or the Plague, or AIDS could spread easily from SAD-eating person to person.
Sickies fly from continent to continent all the time now.
In Paleo times, the spread of disease was a much slower process, if it happened at all, because there is no evidence that there was any disease.
The fact is, most really dangerous human infectious diseases came from animals. AIDS, anthrax, smallpox, mad cow disease...these all come from domesticated/neolithic animals.
There, I fixed it.
It seems like only the English get the human variant of Mad Cow disease, so we have a better chance of being struck by lightning/global warming/black hole/big bang or whatever scare story is favoured at the moment. I thought the other diseases mentioned come from vaccines.
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It seems like only the English get the human variant of Mad Cow disease, so we have a better chance of being struck by lightning/global warming/black hole/big bang or whatever scare story is favoured at the moment. I thought the other diseases mentioned come from vaccines.
Yes, the Plague comes from a vaccine, William. Typhoid fever and smallpox do, too. l)
Never mind that those diseases existed hundreds/thousands of years before vaccines. What they actually did was fly back in time and give vaccines to people and animals, thus causing those diseases. Yeah, that's what happened.
I want to know what you're smoking besides tobacco, because, whatever it is, it is amazing stuff.
William, I would ask you to address why wild animal populations, on all-raw, species-appropriate diets, are most definitely prone to deadly outbreaks of disease...unless you'd like to admit that diet alone cannot protect you from all infectious disease.
I think it's funny that you use all the extra time you have (from NOT having a job) to get online and troll sincere seekers who actually have full-time jobs because they have to work to eat. What does that say about you, though, that you do that?
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Pinguvore just doesn't sound right, especially since there is a place called Pingo National Park in Stefansson country.
http://www.pc.gc.ca/docs/v-g/pingo/index_e.asp - Note the weather!
Animals get good fat in the Winter. It's cold there. Maybe that would have something to do with it.
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Paleo Man did not live in crowded cities, where the swine flu, or typhoid, or the Plague, or AIDS could spread easily from person to person. People fly from continent to continent all the time now. In Paleo times, the spread of disease was a much slower process. The fact is, most really dangerous human infectious diseases came from animals. AIDS, anthrax, smallpox, mad cow disease...these all come from animals. In paleo times, animals were not domesticated, so this particular method could not happen. I have nothing against domestication of livestock, I just realize that we have to be prepared for the diseases they can give to humans.
Well, but paleo man too was actually in close contact with animal species since he was a hunter who butchered his preys after the kills. So one may wonder why so many infectious diseases appeared just with the neolithic revolution and were apparently unknown before. I think that crowding explains rapid spread of diseases but not their initial appearence. It is much more likely that the major change in diet of both humans and domesticated livestock as compared to their "savage" paleolithic counterparts is a major factor.
I do not believe that the usual pasteurian theory of microorganisms as the "causes" of infectious diseases is satisfactory. I am rather inclined to believe that for a substantial number of infectious diseases it is more appropriate to look at the proliferation of germs or bacteria as a symptom, the real cause being intoxication from inappropriate diets. Bacteria are capable to use the toxic molecules ( toxic for us or other higher animals not for them) as food. "Useful" bacteria or viruses actually, as pointed out by Hannibal, which are symbionts rather than parasites as long as the toxic level remains below a certain threshold.
Since i am on raw paleo (11 years) i had no flu to be compared to the previous "cooked" period where i "caught" one almost every winter.
Of course, i agree, this does by no means imply that we can get rid of all infectious diseases just by diet. Some microorganisms are probably really harmful and cause severe diseases. Malaria seems to be a good example.
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Yes, the Plague comes from a vaccine, William. Typhoid fever and smallpox do, too. l)
Never mind that those diseases existed hundreds/thousands of years before vaccines. What they actually did was fly back in time and give vaccines to people and animals, thus causing those diseases. Yeah, that's what happened.
I want to know what you're smoking besides tobacco, because, whatever it is, it is amazing stuff.
William, I would ask you to address why wild animal populations, on all-raw, species-appropriate diets, are most definitely prone to deadly outbreaks of disease...unless you'd like to admit that diet alone cannot protect you from all infectious disease.
I think it's funny that you use all the extra time you have (from NOT having a job) to get online and troll sincere seekers who actually have full-time jobs because they have to work to eat. What does that say about you, though, that you do that?
Herbal medicine, drug medicine, electro medicine sometimes works to cure parasite infestation or bacterial infestation diseases.
Please do not confuse herbs - drugs - electromedicine with the false notion of VACCINES, the ones pushed to be given at childhood... that in their MARKETING GUESS or MARKETING LIES the drug companies believe in... say that vaccines prevent diseases. Vaccines do not confer immunity. Instead vaccines injure and sometimes kill people.
The cute hypothesis of vaccination is just plain false. See evidence previously given and studies done by countries who did not manufacture the vaccines, for example India found out in their massive 1970s study that tuberculosis vaccine is bullsh*t. Same as the Philippine Tuberculosis Society asked for funding to research new Tuberculosis vaccines in the early 21st century because the current BCG / tuberculosis vaccine does not work.
The cumulative damage, the danger, the epidemic damage of vaccines is very easily and convincingly demonstrated by Dr. Moulden http://www.myhealthblog.org/2009/09/22/vaccinations-mankinds-greatest-sin-dr-moulden-at-quebec-health-freedom-conference-12-september-2009/
The source of the vaccination lies come from the companies that produce the vaccines and thus the country of origin of these vaccines where this vaccination profits originate and highly lobbied through brainwashing of their own people including their own industry people. As explained by Dr. Moulden in the conference, the evil of vaccination lies emanates from the USA.
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William, I would ask you to address why wild animal populations, on all-raw, species-appropriate diets, are most definitely prone to deadly outbreaks of disease...unless you'd like to admit that diet alone cannot protect you from all infectious disease.
They are made of the same stuff as we; to properly support life with minimal stress they too would have to eat pemmican, and they don't, so the answer is malnutrition.
Malnourished animals lack the mighty human immune system, so not surprising that they succumb to the periodic viral infections.
You are going to love this: those viruses (virii?) come from outer space. Those recorded by Chinese astronomers for thousands of years happen when Earth passes through the plasma tail of Venus.
Gives a new meaning to the old phrase "venereal disease".
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They are made of the same stuff as we; to properly support life with minimal stress they too would have to eat pemmican, and they don't, so the answer is malnutrition.
Very very funny.
If the animals too "have to eat pemmican" to be healthy, where do you think should the meat and fat in their pemmican come from?
From outer space as the viruses?
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The cute hypothesis of vaccination is just plain false.
I agree. The theory invoked to support vaccination is unfortunately utterly wrong, as is the rampant genetic determinism behind molecular biology and modern genetic tinkering. The latter as well as the design of vaccines and many other drugs are just highly profitable engineering, based on bad science.
There is not yet any convincing evidence for positive effects of vaccination and the scream of outrage or various indignant responses to this statement should definitely just fall on deaf ears.
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The claim made that humans would have been as affected by disease from contact with slain wild animals as Neolithic peoples in contact with domesticated animals doesn't wash. For one thing, Neolithic peoples would have had much longer contact-time with infected animals thus encouraging increased chance of infection, but also hunters do notice whether an animal is sickly or not, much of the time, and avoid them. Oh, and eating infected meat isn't as bad as one would think as the digestive system is pretty effective at destroying the pathogen, it's the contact-issue that matters.
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My point was precisely to point out that it is by no means obvious that it's essentially the contact-issue that matters, when we are looking for the real cause of many infectious maladies. I agree, in a crowd of neolithic or modern people, it may considerably accelerate the spread of various infectious diseases. But it can't explain how and why the first animal or people got sick, the real cause being rather malnutrition and/or poisoning.
And more importantly it can't explain how and why many individuals come in contact with the germ but don't get sick at all ! 25 % of AIDS infected poeple just don't develop any symptom, yet they clearly bear the retrovirus.
Obviously the usual pasteurian view of sickness "just caused by infection" is at least highly questionable.
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Malnourished animals lack the mighty human immune system, so not surprising that they succumb to the periodic viral infections.
William, if it's as black and white as "nutrition cures all infectious disease", then why were Europeans so much more resistant to smallpox, cholera, etc. than the Native Americans? Those diseases wiped out millions of natives, but the Europeans, who ate, if anything, a worse diet, were much more immune.
Even if you're right, and a perfect diet cures all infectious disease, I don't care (although you're not right, and in fact are clearly insane on this issue). Do you know why? Because I can't easily GET perfect food. I have to make do with previously-frozen fish/shellfish, fruit that is not tree-ripened. meat from grass-fed animals that weren't eating grass from perfect soil, etc., etc. These are simply facts. Besides which, there are man-made toxins in our environment and food.
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William, if it's as black and white as "nutrition cures all infectious disease", then why were Europeans so much more resistant to smallpox, cholera, etc. than the Native Americans? Those diseases wiped out millions of natives, but the Europeans, who ate, if anything, a worse diet, were much more immune.
I think that isn't black and white.
But you have to know that Europeans have taken or killed all but all of their traditional food and have given them some nasty substitutes like sugar and white flour - this transition made them very weak
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William, if it's as black and white as "nutrition cures all infectious disease", then why were Europeans so much more resistant to smallpox, cholera, etc. than the Native Americans? Those diseases wiped out millions of natives, but the Europeans, who ate, if anything, a worse diet, were much more immune.
Even if you're right, and a perfect diet cures all infectious disease, I don't care (although you're not right, and in fact are clearly insane on this issue). Do you know why? Because I can't easily GET perfect food. I have to make do with previously-frozen fish/shellfish, fruit that is not tree-ripened. meat from grass-fed animals that weren't eating grass from perfect soil, etc., etc. These are simply facts. Besides which, there are man-made toxins in our environment and food.
We are striving in raw paleo forum to help each other get almost perfect food. ;)
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I think that isn't black and white.
But you have to know that Europeans have taken or killed all but all of their traditional food and have given them some nasty substitutes like sugar and white flour - this transition made them very weak
Yes, the available evidence of just germs brought about by Europeans as the mass killers of native Americans should probably be re-examined in the light of a non pasteurian view of infectious diseases. Jared Diamond, in particular has popularized this presently dominant point of view in his (interesting, i recommend them) books. But as far as i can remember, he is the son of a doctor and at any rate certainly educated in the usual pasteurian framework and he is also most likely not a raw paleo dieter that had the opportunity to observe on himself the astonishing healing effects of such a diet. So he, as as well as many scientists, hardly can imagine that anything else than germs may be of relevance (such new nasty foods, poisoning, alcohol, malnutrition as a consequence plundering, etc) and could well be involved in the infectious diseases that ravaged the natives.
If anyone has links to the original scientific archeologic evidence in this respect, i would be very interested in examining it with non pasteurian bias. Thanks.
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Very very funny.
If the animals too "have to eat pemmican" to be healthy, where do you think should the meat and fat in their pemmican come from?
From outer space as the viruses?
You appear to assume that they are normally in perfect health; this is an assumption which is not proven.
"You are what you eat" is an old saying, still said because it is true.
We are learning what happens to us when we eat a more perfect diet, we don't know what would happen to other species if a hypothetically perfect diet were attempted.
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You appear to assume that they are normally in perfect health; this is an assumption which is not proven.
"You are what you eat" is an old saying, still said because it is true.
We are learning what happens to us when we eat a more perfect diet, we don't know what would happen to other species if a hypothetically perfect diet were attempted.
I don't assume anything, actually. I'm just wondering, if you're right indeed, how our biosphere might well work to allow all animals "to eat pemmican and be in perfect health". Seems to clash front to front with elementary ecology.
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William, if it's as black and white as "nutrition cures all infectious disease", then why were Europeans so much more resistant to smallpox, cholera, etc. than the Native Americans? Those diseases wiped out millions of natives, but the Europeans, who ate, if anything, a worse diet, were much more immune.
Even if you're right, and a perfect diet cures all infectious disease, I don't care (although you're not right, and in fact are clearly insane on this issue). Do you know why? Because I can't easily GET perfect food. I have to make do with previously-frozen fish/shellfish, fruit that is not tree-ripened. meat from grass-fed animals that weren't eating grass from perfect soil, etc., etc. These are simply facts. Besides which, there are man-made toxins in our environment and food.
Europeans who were sensitive to such diseases died out generations before. IIRC it was mentioned in the book "Guns, Germs and Steel" .
Perfect food is not possible IMO, but we can do a lot better if we learn what "food" is.
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Europeans who were sensitive to such diseases died out generations before. IIRC it was mentioned in the book "Guns, Germs and Steel" .
Perfect food is not possible IMO, but we can do a lot better if we learn what "food" is.
So you admit that genetic resistance to disease is a big factor in surviving infectious disease, then? It is the height of foolishness to refuse all vaccines automatically, in my opinion. Some are much better/worse, surely, in terms of effectiveness and side effects. To refuse them all, without examining each one for side effects and efficacy, is a poor choice.
As far as perfect food goes, you're preaching to the choir, William.
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It is the height of foolishness to refuse all vaccines automatically, in my opinion. Some are much better/worse, surely, in terms of effectiveness and side effects. To refuse them all, without examining each one for side effects and efficacy, is a poor choice.
My wife and I did our due diligence with regards to each and every vaccine being pushed to our children by our pediatricion.
We made our table, checklist, researched and crossed out each and every vaccine that turned out to be fake, detrimental, useless.... it so happened that ALL the VACCINES being recommended to our children from 0 to 2 years old turned out to be scams, wrong, harmful according to our research and standards of truth.
And this was us coming in from the regular horde of people who blindly and fearfully accepted vaccinations. We credit our son's school Manila Waldorf who discouraged vaccinations and sold books that opposed vaccinations. At first my reaction was just as blindly fearful as any parent of the masses, but when I read, researched and asked the right questions on the internet, the opposing side came out.
We compared the opposing camps of pro vaccination vs against vaccination and after doing our due diligence came up with the conclusion that indeed all vaccinations are harmful.
Our first born got vaccinated up to 2 years.
Our 2nd born got vaccinated up to his 6 months... this was when we finished our due diligence.
Our 3rd born got zero vaccinations.
Of course our first born is the one who get sick of those diseases, but our 3rd born is the most healthy. It could be a combination of our progress to the right path of better health.
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It is the height of foolishness to refuse all vaccines automatically, in my opinion. Some are much better/worse, surely, in terms of effectiveness and side effects. To refuse them all, without examining each one for side effects and efficacy, is a poor choice.
I used to think like that. I've examined too many vaccines now, and understand how much more unnatural vaccines are especially childhood ones, unnatural in such a way that is to the detriment of the being. I have to assume the vaccines are all unhealthy now. I still research should I be offered vaccines, but I don't come from the assumption that they will likely build my immune system or do no harm. I give the benefit of the doubt now, that it may go either way. I do not accept them blindly now. My eyes see them.
Truthfully no one has offered me a vaccine in maybe seven or more years. They offered me a flu vaccine. I was vegan. I knew my body had bad reactions to animal foods. I just replied, "I'm allergic to eggs", and they immediately let me go and went for the next person, no problem at all.
I'm not you though. I've always had a heightened immune response, that is only now regulated with RAF. Vaccines may be good for you, and just not good for me.
Europeans who were sensitive to such diseases died out generations before. IIRC it was mentioned in the book "Guns, Germs and Steel" .
What's IIRC?
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What's IIRC?
If I recall correctly. ;)
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Vaccines are for poor immune systems. Real bugs are for strong immune systems. I'll take my chances with any disease like the roulette table. I truly believe if you're healthy enough you can take on any sickness. I remember when I first went raw I caught E.Coli or something. I had diarrhea with blood for 2 weeks. Whatever, I kept going with the diet. Last time I had digestion issues. To me, that was my vaccination. I thinking catching bugs is a good thing. All you can do is stick to nature and she'll roll the dice. No amount of meds or vaccines are going to change that. You can't get around mother nature. You might not get that disease, but you'll create some other problems when you try to bypass her.
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For those who are concerned about the legalities of vaccinations:
http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/legally_avoid_shots.htm
Apparently the truth is that no workplace or school can require you or your children to be vaccinated. They will tell you otherwise until they're blue in the face, but the law is on your side.
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Old thread but such an important subject!
After years of studying all I could find on vaccines, my firm belief is this:
- Vaccines does not work (in what they say to accomplish). Oftenly outbreaks of disease have happened just after vaccination in the same areas. It is based on false science.
- Vaccines are highly poisonous substances.
- Disease (infections etc.) is a natural part of life, and evolution (weak, malnurioushed individuals dies, strong, healthy ind. gets stronger by it and the spieces as a whole gets healthier).
Excavations show that humans did not have diseases before we started agriculture 10 000- 12 000 years before. The biggest research on the subject where published last year, I can´t find it now on internet, it was some big American university who conducted it over several years and four continents. For example, it shows that infectious disease was not brought to America by Europeans, they already had TBC and syphilis, among others. They started having them when they gave up being hunter gatherer and started growing maize and such. Occupied by the Europens and not being able to hunt at all anymore obviously led to an even worse diet and more disease.
I have two children, 5 and a half and 1 and a half. They have not had any vaccines. We travel in "dangerous" areas in Asia, and my kids are the healthiest kids around. The locals have all been vaccinated and are sick all the time.
If you are thinking about taking vaccines for yourself or your kids, do the reading first, there is lot´s of good info out there. Personally, I would never let anyone near me or my kids with a syringe!
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But what happens if you dont get the polio vaccine and you get polio???
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Polio is a detox of the spine, usually due to heavy metal poisoning from vaccines, canned food or food cocked in metal utensils.
If you get polio (if you are in to RAF, you will not); eat a raw paleo diet, high in fat and organic bonemarrow and let the detox have it´s course and you will be fine.
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But what happens if you dont get the polio vaccine and you get polio???
If you're healthy and on a real diet, it's usually like a mild cold you don't even notice, and then it's gone and you're the same as before. That's what I read many places.
Polio is a detox of the spine, usually due to heavy metal poisoning from vaccines, canned food or food cocked in metal utensils.
Or wet food that sat on metal for hours.
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PaleoPhil, might be a reason not to dry your meat on that rack.
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Goodsamaritan what are your thoughts about allergy shots.
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Old thread but such an important subject!
After years of studying all I could find on vaccines, my firm belief is this:
- Vaccines does not work (in what they say to accomplish). Oftenly outbreaks of disease have happened just after vaccination in the same areas. It is based on false science.
- Vaccines are highly poisonous substances.
- Disease (infections etc.) is a natural part of life, and evolution (weak, malnurioushed individuals dies, strong, healthy ind. gets stronger by it and the spieces as a whole gets healthier).
Excavations show that humans did not have diseases before we started agriculture 10 000- 12 000 years before. The biggest research on the subject where published last year, I can´t find it now on internet, it was some big American university who conducted it over several years and four continents. For example, it shows that infectious disease was not brought to America by Europeans, they already had TBC and syphilis, among others. They started having them when they gave up being hunter gatherer and started growing maize and such. Occupied by the Europens and not being able to hunt at all anymore obviously led to an even worse diet and more disease.
I have two children, 5 and a half and 1 and a half. They have not had any vaccines. We travel in "dangerous" areas in Asia, and my kids are the healthiest kids around. The locals have all been vaccinated and are sick all the time.
If you are thinking about taking vaccines for yourself or your kids, do the reading first, there is lot´s of good info out there. Personally, I would never let anyone near me or my kids with a syringe!
afroza, can you recommend some literature on vaccines?
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PaleoPhil, might be a reason not to dry your meat on that rack.
It's a plastic rack, but plastic isn't good, of course. It would be better if I could hang it from hooks in a small meat locker, I think.
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If you get polio (if you are in to RAF, you will not); eat a raw paleo diet, high in fat and organic bonemarrow and let the detox have it´s course and you will be fine.
And stay away from sugar and complex carbs.
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PaleoPhil, might be a reason not to dry your meat on that rack.
wooden rack would be the best
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I find it ironic that most people I know who get regular flu shots get sick chronically.. I cant stand these shots there based on flabby science and people need to start doing more to get rid of these. More people need to start speaking up and just call them no this bullshit though, not just on forums but to people who push it on us and are youth.
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... More people need to start speaking up and just call them no this bullshit though, not just on forums but to people who push it on us and are youth.
The problem is, just like an abused person would rather their abuser hit them, than the abuser kill them right there or maim them for life right there, people are afraid that if they refuse the flu shots that may be making them chronically sick, that doc or Big Brother will get them with something worse. At least after the flu shot, I assume many are still alive and able to function somewhat.
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afroza, can you recommend some literature on vaccines?
I have read some good research done in Sweden on vaccines but unless you read swedish it won´t do you any good. But below is a link to a collection of interesting intervjues etc, by Jon Rappoport. He has reported on the subject of vaccines for years, and some of the intervjues are with former scientists that worked in the vaccine business. It´s not so much about the science behind vaccines (if thats what you were interested in) but more about the scam behind the vaccine business. Interesting reading I think. I will post again if I find more goodies on the subject.
http://www.whale.to/w/rappoport.html
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I'm thinking my eczema might be caused by a Hepatitis B vaccination about three years ago...
A short while after the vaccination the flare ups started and it eventually got worse and worse...
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thanks afroza, i'll look into it.
also, i just found out that i was given a meningitis vaccine (menactra) right before i started college. i remember distinctly that i started having weird bowel movements around the time i started college and a year later (start of sophmore year) i started getting candida symptoms. possible connection? i guess i did start my vegetarian disaster towards the end of freshman year and it ended half way through sophmore year when i got really bad candida stuff going on. maybe it was just the combination of the vaccine and terrible diet...
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It appears now clearly that mercury acts as an antibiotic and so strongly favors candida infection or overgrowth when contamination takes place by means of vaccines (mercury based thimerosal "conservation" of the stuff ) or dental filling "silver" amalgams for instance.
In the case of dental fillings the mercury contamination is chronic since they release their content of 50% mercury very progressively over decades. In a substantial fraction of the population with less effective genes in mercury detoxification ( such as APO 4) this results in chronic candida infections and progressive poisoning of the central nervous system, kidneys etc.
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alphagruis, do you know of an effective way of detoxing mercury?
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Once the mercury contamination source ( amalgams) is removed it seems that our organism progressively excretes the mercury (lead and other heavy metals) in store in the CNS, kidneys etc (bones) if one adopts a RP diet rich in food of animal origin. The process takes however a long time if the silver fillings were in our teeths for decades (as, unfortunately, in my case).
I have tried recently to accelerate the process and two products seem to work fairly well without serious side effects in my case:
- cilantro tincture for mercury stored in brain and CNS.
- a drug called DMSA for kidney and other organs http://www.supersmart.com/en--DMSA-100-mg--Detoxification--0248
Many other products are claimed to work but I can't tell for sure. It's a very controversial subject though mercury poisoning by silver fillings is a widespread and often overlooked or denied reality.
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alphagruis,
How do you know if they actually work? Do you measure some specific things?
Have you tried zeolites?
By the way, there is a mercury detox recommendation on the AV recipes book (p56) which also involves cilantro juice.
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Once the mercury contamination source ( amalgams) is removed it seems that our organism progressively excretes the mercury (lead and other heavy metals) in store in the CNS, kidneys etc (bones) if one adopts a RP diet rich in food of animal origin. The process takes however a long time if the silver fillings were in our teeths for decades (as, unfortunately, in my case).
Well this sounds awfully nice, but how do you know an rpd will chelate the mercury? Seems like a pretty strong statement to make. I assume you think an rpd will also remove any and all excess junk contaminating the liver/gall bladder/pancreas areas as well.
I have tried recently to accelerate the process and two products seem to work fairly well without serious side effects in my case:
- cilantro tincture for mercury stored in brain and CNS.
- a drug called DMSA for kidney and other organs http://www.supersmart.com/en--DMSA-100-mg--Detoxification--0248
Many other products are claimed to work but I can't tell for sure. It's a very controversial subject though mercury poisoning by silver fillings is a widespread and often overlooked or denied reality.
How do you know the cilantro tincture is working? What is physically different now and how exactly are you administering the cilantro tincture?
Have you heard of Andy Cutler and his extremely detailed protocol for removing mercury. Here are the basics from wiki
http://onibasu.com/wiki/Cutler_protocol
Andy Cutler's protocol is explained in his book Amalgam Illness, http://www.noamalgam.com.
Moria has a web page explaining the dosages and timings of the chelating agents (ALA, DMSA, DMPS) here: http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/Andy_dose_sched.html
Basically, ALA must be taken no less often than every 3 hours, around the clock. Every 4 hours for DMSA and 8 hours for DMPS. If taking ALA+DMSA or ALA+DMPS, the dosing must be every 3 hours.
The ALA and DMSA dose should start from 1/8 or 1/4 mg per lb body weight, and adjusted upwards in ensuing rounds as tolerated. The same starting doses apply if taking ALA with DMSA. For DMPS, start from 1/4 mg per lb body weight. If taking ALA with DMPS, halve the starting dose of DMPS.
Taking it less often means running a higher risk of regression or damage. Taking large single doses or once a day doses can result in permanent neurological and other damage. Challenge tests are an example of this kind of usage. See Testing for mercury for some reports. See the sections below for an understanding of why dosage and timing are so important for safe chelation.
All sources of mercury in the body must be removed first, including amalgams under crowns, or permanent and irreversible damage can occur. See How people get poisoned#Toxicity exacerbated by chelating while having mercury fillings for reports of damage from chelating with amalgams.
I'm a great candidate for mercury poisoning, having had 10 amalgams now in place for more than 10 years. I should be getting them removed this year I hope.
Also - William, I thought you already detoxed from Mercury. You gave some links before, one of which was the one I just posted.
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I thought that I was mercury-free, but a dentist found some under the plastic composite filling that he repaired.
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Taking diluted food-grade hydrogen peroxide is very effective for getting rid of all heavy metals. I know of someone who detoxed heavy metals very quickly with food-grade H2O2.
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majormark, Paleo Donk,
Cilantro leaves or extracts from them as in tincture have been shown to increase urinary mercury excretion by a Japanese scientist Dr Omura.
Same for DMSA or DMPS by a series of studies by many groups.
In the latter case I have checked this two times on myself: 100mg DMSA taken orally at midnight resulted in typically 2 microg of mercury/ g of creatinine in the first urine collected the following morning as compared to the 0.2 microg of mercury / g of creatinine normally excreted without DMSA. Heavy metal analysis was performed by Micro Trace Metals Laboratory in Germany. So DMSA increased the excretion by one order of magnitude in my case.
However it is clear that even at this increased rate of excretion it may take a faily long time to get rid of all the mercury stored in the organism which may be of the order of hundreths of mg or even of g. (One amalgam filling contains about half a g of mercury...)
A better and of course much more important way to check if chelation works is to observe the disappearance of poisoning symptoms. I had two symptoms that either improved considerably ( sleep disturbances by taking a few drops of cilantro tincture directly under my tongue (sublingual) before going to bed during several months) or disappeared completely ( fungus infection with DMSA)
As to the fact that RPD clearly helps considerably in excreting heavy metals my opinion is based mainly on the observations that my mercury poisoning symptoms also slowly improved on the diet alone. But it may take many many years to get rid of all the mercury.
As to Andy Cutler I've read his very interesting book and taken my DMSA according to his minidose protocol, the best in my opinion. I've not yet tested ALA.
William,
I think older people such as you and me who had amalgams in their teeths for tens of years must be patient because there is most likely a lot of mercury or other heavy metals stored in our organisms and it takes a lot of time to safely (which means slowly) excrete it.
cherimoya_kid,
I'm also aware of this as well as other oxidants claimed to be effective in heavy metal removal such as MMS or ClO2 molecule. But I cannot confirm it since I've no experience with them.
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I think older people such as you and me who had amalgams in their teeths for tens of years must be patient because there is most likely a lot of mercury or other heavy metals stored in our organisms and it takes a lot of time to safely (which means slowly) excrete it.
Oh I'm only 40 and I had a lot of amalgam fillings. 7 teeth. All 4 quarters of my mouth.
I used to be on the regular filipino rice based diet plus other junk wheat and corn.
I didn't know biological dentists back then so 4 years ago I had them removed and replaced by a regular dentist.
Oh, that mercury is toxic is so true.
My right leg eczema raged on the very evening each quarter was worked on by the dentist.
4 meetings, 1 per week, mercury is conclusive.
Are all of the mercury removed from my body?
Don't know, just keep on RPD, raw fat onwards....
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Yes, I agree GS.
You're still young and if no more plagued by clear cut unambiguous mercury poisoning symptoms it is wise to just stay on RPD and not use any drug except perhaps cilantro.
Drugs such as DMSA have some side effects. In my case they caused some temporary skin rashes and some loss of appetite, probably due to a stress on my liver.
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For those who've gotten the amalgam removed, what if anything did you replace them with? I'm thinking of replacing mine with nothing. Is this a bad idea?
Alpha, thanks for the response - Any reason you chose not to go with ALA after reading the Cutler book. I think I've seen him post online that DMSA and DMPS are not necessary and that ALA will chelate most of the mercury on its own.
I'm very concerned about making matters worse. Do you have no fear when you take the cilantro tincture about redepositing the mercury in other more dangerous places? Culter seems to go the extra length to make sure that this does not happen. Other people on youtube seem pretty lackadaisical about treatment and make it seem like its pretty easy. I'd really like to avoid waking up in the middle of the night for more than a year...just to follow procedure.
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I don't understand why you feel the need to buy bottled ALA since cold pressed walnut oil contains plenty of it. The same for cilantro, isn't it better to get the actual stuff?
By the way, do you know if tooth pivots contain mercury?
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For those who've gotten the amalgam removed, what if anything did you replace them with? I'm thinking of replacing mine with nothing. Is this a bad idea?
I asked this to our biological dentists and both of them thought leaving a tooth open was a bad idea. food particles can get stuffed in there and put pressure on your nerves.
Unless you are confident that the Cure Tooth Decay protocol works on you and the whole thing will refill, that would be something to experiment on.
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For those who've gotten the amalgam removed, what if anything did you replace them with? I'm thinking of replacing mine with nothing. Is this a bad idea?
I don't know. It's well known that it's a bad idea when on SAD but maybe that's not true on a RP diet. My amalgam fillings when removed 15 years ago and replaced with polymer which also contains possibly questionable chemicals though by far less harmful than mercury. Recently I lost one of these fillings and, it's funny, as you do, Paleo Donk, I'm thinking to replace it with nothing leaving things as they are now, just to see what happens.
Alpha, thanks for the response - Any reason you chose not to go with ALA after reading the Cutler book. I think I've seen him post online that DMSA and DMPS are not necessary and that ALA will chelate most of the mercury on its own.
I didn't experiment with ALA because my symptoms have essentially disappeared now with cilantro and DMSA.
I'm very concerned about making matters worse. Do you have no fear when you take the cilantro tincture about redepositing the mercury in other more dangerous places? Culter seems to go the extra length to make sure that this does not happen. Other people on youtube seem pretty lackadaisical about treatment and make it seem like its pretty easy. I'd really like to avoid waking up in the middle of the night for more than a year...just to follow procedure.
DMSA and DMPS may indeed redeposit mercury in more dangerous places and should be used as described by Cutler (frequent minidoses) and not in the form of single 250mg shots as usual with DMPS. Cilantro seems harmless in this respect, doses are small and as pointed out by majormark it can be used simply as an herb in daily food (for instance in the form of a pesto http://www.home.earthlink.net/%7Ejedcline/cilantro.html)
Also don't use DMPS or DMSA as long as the amalgams are in your teeth. Also don't worry excessively about this mercury poisoning if you don't have unambiguous symptoms because a fraction of the population seems capable to excrete more or less completely the mercury released by their amalgams and maybe you belong to it (those people with APO 2 or 3 gene variants)
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If a study were to be done, and it has not AFAIK, I bet it would show that the smallpox genocide of aboriginal North Americans was among the malnourished maize-eaters of the South, and not among the well fed fativorous Northerners. To this day there are more AmerIndians in Canada than in the U.S.A.
well that's just not true. smallpox impacted virtually all tribes in the new world. the plains indians might have been a little less susceptible due to their more paleo diet but by no means did all the plains indians have immunity to smallpox and other european diseases.
Let's clear one thing up.
Diseases ravage wildlife populations from time to time, and it's not all due to poor nutrition. To think that a raw paleo diet (or any diet) is perfect protection from infectious disease is
LAUGHABLY stupid. ....
Yon Yonson and Cherimoya were quite correct. Even the Inuit were devastated by small pox and I currently have a cold (though the first one in quite a while) despite eating raw Paleo and not eating any maize or any other grains. So William's notion that pathogenic infections cannot be acquired on a nutrient-rich ancestral-type diet was bogus.