Do you think that people would be able to sustain a raw diet if they added meat?

[spitfiredd1]

Or if they added other animal foods like eggs and maybe raw dairy?

I know that a lot of people who come to raw foods initially eat a raw vegan diet.  After some time they either can't sustain like from the little calories they get or they develop deficiencies from vital nutrients found in fish/eggs and other meats. 

I know for a longtime I would go back an forth and eat grains and other carbs just for energy!!  Doing away with the vegan dogma has allowed to me stay more raw than eating just a raw vegan diet.  I still think that initially people should go vegan to detox from factory meats and toxic processed foods; but after a time they should start to integrate some high quality animal foods.  This has been my experience thus far...

I actually feel better now that I can eat all the fruits and veggies I want plus I don't have to fall back to cook grains!!  I don't know about you but I find this a good thing. 

It just seems so odd that the raw food movement is so adamant on the 'raw vegan' doctrine...

[TylerDurden]

While adding raw dairy and raw eggs may work for some in the short-term, I doubt it works for most. Problems with raw dairy and raw eggs abound and even AV, last I checked, is not in favour of using either raw food for specifically rebuilding the body re proteins, though he finds them great for instant energy/food otherwise.
What I mean is those 2 foods might well provide all the missing nutrients a raw vegan needs but that they, in many cases, will never fully heal many of their past conditions gained on cooked diets.

Never heard of a raw vegetarian. There's usually a solid line between raw vegans and RVAFers, with nothing inbetween.

[cherimoya_kid]

There aren't many raw vegetarians out there.  I'm a pretty settled pescatarian, myself.  I eat meat every once in a great while, but I mostly just eat seafoods for my animal products, plus a little raw dairy.

[Wattlebird]

It just seems so odd that the raw food movement is so adamant on the 'raw vegan' doctrine...

for what its worth, in some vegan circles there is an underlying belief that a diet free of  animal products is indicative of higher or more evolved spirituality, and this is often a driver of doctrine.
Kind wishes, J

[goodsamaritan]

The title of this thread is ODD.

It actually means:

Raw Diet should mean Raw PALEO Diet... and NOT a raw vegan diet.

The first impression of "raw diet" is that it is a meat less diet because idiot vegans hijacked the phrase.

[PaleoPhil]

I'm sorry, spitfiredd1, but this is one of my pet peeves. Vegans have misdefined "raw diet." Raw meat is raw food, regardless of vegans' attempts to pretend otherwise. It's simply ridiculous for them to pretend that raw diet and raw foods means only plants. It makes zero sense. A wolf or tarsier doesn't say to himself/herself, "Oh, I can't eat that critter, that isn't a true raw food, because it's not a plant."

As a matter of fact, based on my research and experience, and that of Tyler and other folks who bother to take the time to do some research (which I vainly hope that others will emulate),  it's probably MORE important to eat animal foods raw than plant foods. Raw animal foods are the core of the biologically appropriate diet for humans (and no, I'm not totally discounting plants; the dichotomy is false).

Things are rapidly changing as many ex-vegans have added raw or cooked meats, eggs, fish and/or dairy to their diets and "raw" increasingly includes raw meats. The politically correct version of the definition is giving way to reality, thank heavens.

[cherimoya_kid]

for what its worth, in some vegan circles there is an underlying belief that a diet free of  animal products is indicative of higher or more evolved spirituality, and this is often a driver of doctrine.
Kind wishes, J

And those vegans who eat that way to be more "spiritual" invariably end up arrogant and lacking in humility, because they think they're somehow more evolved and better.

And they're not.  They're just trading meat for arrogance.  A major accomplishment, yes.

[goodsamaritan]

Is it spiritual or loss of sex drive?

[spitfiredd1]

There aren't many raw vegetarians out there.  I'm a pretty settled pescatarian, myself.  I eat meat every once in a great while, but I mostly just eat seafoods for my animal products, plus a little raw dairy.

I'm the same as you, I added fish (mostly wild caught salmon) to an otherwise raw vegan diet and I feel like 100x better.  Mostly I don't have the brain fog from eating so many carbs.  I still feel really good eating greens and green smoothies they feel very 'healing' to me.  Fish for me feels like my brain is working in overdrive I can see why it's called 'brain food'!!  Before when I was doing 811rv I would settle into bed and pass out and feel pretty much comatose.  This caused me a lot of concern because since I child I would always spend every night in bed reading for 2-4 hours and suddenly I had brain fog or my stomach was so swollen from the massive quantities of food I had to eat!  Oh and my dreams are back!!  Last night I could remember my awesome dreams that I always used to have.


I don't know why the 'vegan' movement seems to want to hold on the vegan doctrine.  Maybe the US produces so much corn and soy they have to hawk in somewhere, in comes the 'moral superior' vegans!!  The vegan culture wars are MASSIVE I mean look at Huffington Post, almost every day there is a pro vegan article, or something telling you that you'll get heart disease and die if you eat red meat...

As for the spiritual side, I know that going vegan that was my main motivator.  However I feel that the vegan doctrine is delusional and I'll tell you why.  First off I think there is a misunderstanding that vegans think that they eat this perfect diet of fruits and veggies they will somehow live for ever.  Most vegans I know and have talked to are completely afraid of death, you can not mention death around a vegan!!  Especially the more 'spiritual' ones.  Death is part of the natural life cycle and should be celebrated not run from, there will be a time when I must face my own and I don't want to be fearful of it. 

Next is the systematic distinction of which lifeforms are acceptable to eat and which ones are not eat.  I came from a Zen/Buddhist background and it teaches that we are all one.  Essentially we are if you consider the earth to be a closed system.  So from my understand is seems absurd to say that if you eat one life form, say a plant you are causing less suffering and harm that say if you hunted and killed a deer.  Those distinctions to me sound very arbitrary if you ask me.  I am still trying to understand my beliefs about the world and I don't ever feel like I will ever 'know' and I'm ok with that.  However I feel more intune with where I am now and dare I say I may have even grown some?  But all sentience is 'subjective experience' anyways!!

Oh and vegans aren't all that great and conversations and/or debating so they can be rather boring to talk with!

Wow I think i hijacked my own thread!!

I think the raw movement in general would be better off if there was an open dialogue between people who wanted to eat different types of raw diets and not just a vegan one.

[spitfiredd1]

Never heard of a raw vegetarian. There's usually a solid line between raw vegans and RVAFers, with nothing inbetween.

Paul Nison consumes raw goats milk and possible raw cheese.  I am not sure if he eats raw meats and meat at all last time I checked.  He's probably the only one I can think of though.

[goodsamaritan]

And I came across Paul Nison's video when he had to tell the entire raw vegan community that he had to "cross over" and eat animal foods because his wealth was deteriorating.

[CitrusHigh]

First off I think there is a misunderstanding that vegans think that they eat this perfect diet of fruits and veggies they will somehow live for ever.  Most vegans I know and have talked to are completely afraid of death, you can not mention death around a vegan!!  Especially the more 'spiritual' ones.

That is a neat observation! I find vegans by and large almost by their nature to be disconnected from reality and the natural world. It's ok for a wolf to eat meat, but i can't? Bollocks! Actually vegans show a complete disregard for the circle of life, which is beyond ironic considering their holier than thou disposition!

[cherimoya_kid]

Paul Nison consumes raw goats milk and possible raw cheese.  I am not sure if he eats raw meats and meat at all last time I checked.  He's probably the only one I can think of though.

I believe the Boutenkos have added raw goat cheese to their diet.

Also, take a look at this interview with Nazariah, an Essene:

http://chetday.com/rawfooddietnazariah.htm




Here's a quote:

"One of the real problems in that raw food movement with those experts and authors is that they have a lot of guilt because they get into this thing about having to be 100% raw. And when they themselves have a binge or sneakily eat some cooked food, they don’t want to admit it because it would wreck their reputation as the great raw-foodist that never eats cooked food. So therefore they eat the cooked food on the sly and then have guilt about it. They start to get into a very vicious cycle psychologically. Yet, when you speak to them or when they do their lecture, they just still claim to have never eaten cooked food in all these years. They put on a fake front to the public. So I saw that with my own eyes with a number of the leading individuals.

So, are there some of those leaders who really are 100% raw-vegans through the years and are healthy? There might be. But, they also might not be. I mean, all I know is that the ones that I get to know, the more I get to know them, the more I see them eating cooked food on the sly, or having really severe problems like anxiety attacks, panic attacks, clinical depression, teeth falling out, fingernails breaking, hair falling out. So I’m just not personally impressed with my experience of the raw food movement and the raw-food experts! That’s just my own personal experience with all that."


So, basically, most of the raw vegan gurus are probably not totally raw or vegan.  What they ARE is liars. Lying Liars.

[PaleoPhil]

It is indeed fascinating how the vegan/vegetarian movement fits nicely with the food/agriculture industry's need and desire to sell a lot of profitable processed grain products. The optimal profit maximizer for them is probably if a fair number of people are vegan/vegetarian to gobble up lots of the grain & bean foods and to spread the dogma that grain & bean products are healthy, but most folks continue to eat everything and are influenced to think that they should eat plenty of grain products, which seems to be pretty much the case today.