Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Off Topic => Topic started by: Iguana on August 08, 2009, 11:31:58 pm
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Have some of you ever experienced paranormal phenomenon such as premonitory dreams, telepathy, visions or other kinds of extrasensory perception (ESP) ? Are those phenomenon more often experienced when we’ve eaten 100% raw paleo for some time and/or when we are in love?
Cheers
Francois
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I'm definitely interested in what people have to say.
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When I was a kid, I was at summer camp walking down a dirt road. I used to get this thing where I would feel like I would get pulled upward and back, just out of my body. Sounds became very distant but plenty clear, and I would see differently. Almost trance like, but still fully functional.
Well it happend REALLY strong, I just snapped in to that state walking down this road. A series of events that took 30 sec's or so played out, and then I snapped out of it. I had this crazy sensation of deja vu, and then realized I had dreamt the entire thing about a week before (I used to remember my dreams for weeks out as a kid). I mean it was like if you'd put a camera in my eye and in my dream, they were the exact same.
Of course this was a long time ago, and even though I've had some weird experiences with that kind of stuff, I still can't bring myself to say there is definitely something else going on. I guess it's the scientist in me that would like to see those kind of things purposefully replicated.
I haven't noticed much difference on RP or not, although I do sleep better and have more vivid dreams. Although I always forget to pay attention to my dreams.
If you're interested in that kind of stuff, check out Eckhart Tolle.
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Have some of you ever experienced paranormal phenomenon such as premonitory dreams, telepathy, visions or other kinds of extrasensory perception (ESP) ? Are those phenomenon more often experienced when we’ve eaten 100% raw paleo for some time and/or when we are in love?
Cheers
Francois
Nothing like that happening with me...
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I'll have to move this thread to the off-topics forum. Could people please remember to post in the relevant forum, in future.
Re my experience re ESP/dreams:- In pre-rawpalaeo days, my dreams were far more vivid etc., and I had more out of body experiences and deja vu scenarios than in my rawpalaeodiet. Unsurprising, as dairy, cooked foods and grains all contain mood-enhancing opioids which act on the brain's pathways in the same manner as drugs. Eating such fare over years, inevitably would lead to such phenomena. By contrast, my rawpalaeodiet allows me to fall asleep almost instantly, with dreaming hardly ever happening.
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I'll have to move this thread to the off-topics forum. Could people please remember to post in the relevant forum, in future.
Sorry about that: I thought it is relevant in "General discussion" since one of my questions is "Are those phenomenon more often experienced when we’ve eaten 100% raw paleo for some time ?"
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Sorry about that: I thought it is relevant in "General discussion" since one of my questions is "Are those phenomenon more often experienced when we’ve eaten 100% raw paleo for some time ?"
Part of the trouble is that people already post too much in the general discussions thread, so that it makes sense to make it less top-heavy and allocate topics to other forums, but also anything to do with ESP phenomena is, by definition, rarely if ever associated with diet so is more appropriate for the off-topics forum. To take another example, I started a thread in the off-topics forum about iconic raw meat eating scenes in movies - while it may be about raw meat in 1 sense, it's more about the actual movie scenes, so is more appropriate in that off-topics forum.
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Re my experience re ESP/dreams:- In pre-rawpalaeo days, my dreams were far more vivid etc., and I had more out of body experiences and deja vu scenarios than in my rawpalaeodiet.By contrast, my rawpalaeodiet allows me to fall asleep almost instantly, with dreaming hardly ever happening.
Me too.
However, there is something called "lucid dreaming", which is done by intent. It's on my list, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
Anyone try it?
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My dreams have always been lucid, in full color, and I like remembering them and sometimes attempt to manipulate them. Nothing has changed with my dreaming entertainment yet.
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Have some of you ever experienced paranormal phenomenon such as premonitory dreams, telepathy, visions or other kinds of extrasensory perception (ESP) ? Are those phenomenon more often experienced when we’ve eaten 100% raw paleo for some time and/or when we are in love?
Cheers
Francois
Wow man thats a good one. I've only been raw for a week so I can't say but I have had alot of pranormal stuff go on in the past.
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… and then realized I had dreamt the entire thing about a week before (I used to remember my dreams for weeks out as a kid). I mean it was like if you'd put a camera in my eye and in my dream, they were the exact same.
A similar experience happened to me years ago. (I was eating cooked and dairy food then, but I was in great love with a woman.) What bewildered me most was that not only the guy said exactly the same words than in my dream the night before, but I also answered him the same exact words that I had told him in my dream. Simultaneously I was realizing I was saying those same words ??? Ever since that, I searched where our knowledge stands about time and finally found an answer in a book of the physicist Olivier Costa de Beauregard. He says that past and future coexist.
Our conventional concept of time looks absurd once we realize that the present has no duration: it is just a line without thickness separating our past from our future. Thus, if the past is no more, the future is not yet and the present has no duration, what is left ? Huh ?
If we consider instead that past and future coexist and it is our consciousness which move through time rather than the time flowing, then precognition is not a paradox anymore.
Cheers
Francois
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Our conventional concept of time looks absurd once we realize that the present has no duration: it is just a line without thickness separating our past from our future. Thus, if the past is no more, the future is not yet and the present has no duration, what is left ? Huh ?
Creation. It's what humans do, and why we exist.
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A similar experience happened to me years ago. (I was eating cooked and dairy food then, but I was in great love with a woman.) What bewildered me most was that not only the guy said exactly the same words than in my dream the night before, but I also answered him the same exact words that I had told him in my dream. Simultaneously I was realizing I was saying those same words ??? Ever since that, I searched where our knowledge stands about time and finally found an answer in a book of the physicist Olivier Costa de Beauregard. He says that past and future coexist.
This happens to me alot!! In the past week Ive experienced it 5 times.
Its like mega deja vu attacks every day :o.
Its awesome tho.. I think that my dreams seem to tell me sometimes whats going to happen in the future.
If I dream about someone that I havent seen in a while, than I would see them the next day! ???
To answer the question youve started this topic with.. I notice how raw egg yolks definetly made my dreams more vivid and of a predicting nature.
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5 times in a week !
I only had about that much premonitory dreams (4 if my count is right) during my whole life!
Damn, I ate a few days ago the last eggs I brought along... I sold too many, should have kept more for me! They kept well in a fridge, these last ones were more than 3 months old.
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Yea.. wow. I keep forgetting not everyone has these weird experiences I have the past years.
For example I liked a girl on summer vacation (lets call her miss X), but she already had a boyfriend and didnt want to cheat..
Then one night I had a dream about how I was kissing another girl and miss X sees me doing it.. and after that she chases me and I end up being with her.
This dream I told to my friends before we went out the next day. And guess what.. I was on the dancefloor and a girl came up to me and danced against me and started kissing me. All of a sudden I hear a friend of mine laughing very hard, because at that same time miss X came in the club and stared at me and the other girl.
That same night miss X came into my tent sleeping in my bed. The next day lying with me on the beach and that night we "slept together" if u know what I mean.
My friends were like.. wtf dude, how did u know? And still this same shit happens to me, where I dream about something I really want.. and it somehow tells me what the future holds, or what needs to be done.
Have you got an experience like this, in the sense off a dream being this accurate?
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Very nice love story! Wonderful. So, in that case it’s clearly connected with love, as assumed (by GCB) to be so often the case. So, if you’re in deep love, it wouldn' be so surprising you happen to have such experiences.
Have you got an experience like this, in the sense off a dream being this accurate?
Yes, at least the one I summon up in an above post.
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Yes I think you might be right about Love being an important factor!
But I think its not just Love for someone, but also love for something!
Deep desire for something takes me over and I cant stop thinking about it.. and I seem to get what I want.
Even weird things like I didnt like my eyes dark blue and wanted to have light green eyes.. now 6 years later, my eyes are light blue/greenish.
Have u ever wanted anything soo bad and a few years later you got it? Like.. something remarkable?
Didnt know u had this side of you Iguana, cool 8)
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Ah, it remains me another premonitory dream I had years ago. I forgot to count it, so it makes 5. On a Friday night I dreamed there will be a good wind on a particular windsurf spot at 4 PM. There was no wind on Saturday, so I deduced that it would happen on Sunday since I would have been unable to windsurf on a working day.
Thus, around 3 PM I drove there and started to rig a sail at about 3.30. There was no other windsurfer there, but soon a friend arrived. He asked me why I was rigging a sail since there was no wind and the weather forecast had said “no wind”… I told him, the wind will come at 4! He looked at me as if I was crazy. But the wind came exactly at the time I had told him. So, I was the only one speeding on the lake until some others had come and nervously got all their stuff ready. ;D ;D :)
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Haha cool :)
I think its amazing that you acted on it like you knew it was definetly going to happen!
In my case I never am really convinced about it, but things happen in a way that my dream still comes true.
Cool that you act on your intuition!!
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Have u ever wanted anything soo bad and a few years later you got it? Like.. something remarkable?
Yeah, when I was 12 or 13. I was always sick and thus missed school so often that I couldn’t follow the teachings. I was quite desperate to ever find a job later if I couldn’t neither achieve an engineering degree nor accomplish a physical job, being too weak. At that age, I still believed in religion and I was praying God every night before to sleep.
One night, I asked “God” if I could ever be a racing driver! I believed those drivers were some kind of superhumans with lightning quick reflexes and aptitudes that were denied to common mortals…! To my highest surprise, the answer came very clearly and loudly, directly inside my brain without transiting through my ears. Something extremely impressive and awesome.
At 24 years old, I had made enough money to buy a cheap 6 years old racing car, a Mustang Shelby GT350-R (which would now be a rare collector piece, worth perhaps 200’000 $ or more…).
Out of 11 national races, I won 8 times the class, once the whole category — did nothing on my first (too nervous) and last races (engine worn out), missed a 9th win because I hadn’t filed enough gas in the tank and thus ran dry. Before a slalom on a military airstrip, a known driver came to me and gave me tricks for two spots; his advice was so helpful that it propelled me to be the fastest of 150 competitors in any cars, some much more expensive and efficient than mine. After the race, Mr. Peter Sauber, who later became the one making Formula 1 cars for Mercedes, offered me to race one of his sport-prototypes cars for the next season: if I could pay half of the expenses, he would care for the other half.
But what I was planning was rather to win the Swiss championship in “stock”, unmodified cars category. For that purpose a 426 CI – 425 HP Plymouth HemiCuda would have done the job.
Anyway, during the winter I took a truck driving job between Switzerland, Spain and Portugal. One night in a Lisbon bar, I met one of the most pretty girls I have never seen. We finished the night loving in bed, but unfortunately I didn’t speak one word of English at the time; and of course no Portuguese, so we could not talk and she disappeared… When I woke up in my truck’s cabin the morning of the next night, I switched on the radio tuned to “France Inter” and immediately heard in French (the very first words coming out from the radio): “the Swiss driver Joseph Siffert died of an accident at Monza race track…” He was a very good guy appreciated by everyone. I was deeply moved and decided at once not to race anymore. The next year I was in Polynesia in view to stay there forever, but....
Now I’m again in Portugal, unknown and alone. Seems it went full circle… What should have I done?
Sorry for the much too long post...
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Wow!
Im interested in the part where u asked God if you could be a race car driver, if u can describe that moment as well as you can. What made it so impressive and awesome etc.?
It is a very cool story.. something out of a movie almost!
As to what you should have done.. I dont know.. I would say.. Always follow your intuition.
But then again, thats not easy to do for most people.
Same for me though.. allthough I try.
If you have some kind of desire right now.. then go and follow the desire.
If you dont get it, at least you could say youve tried.
A purpose in life is what we need, I guess.
You no longer believe in religion, Im also interested in why you were.. and why you are no longer :).
8)
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Wow!
Im interested in the part where u asked God if you could be a race car driver, if u can describe that moment as well as you can. What made it so impressive and awesome etc.?
I prayed, quite desperately, I think. In response, I clearly heard a loud and neat YES in my head. It didn’t come as usual by atmospheric sound waves through the ears, but directly inside my skull. I knew there was nothing external, somebody around could not have heard it, it was exclusively and secretly told to me and me only.
It is a very cool story.. something out of a movie almost!
Thanks!
Yes, life can be marvelous sometimes. It should possibly always be so, but since we’ve lost the key of the door to love, we’ve lost our extrasensory perceptions (ESP) capabilities and became materialists. GCB sees the root cause of this loss at the transition from hunting-gathering to farming, at the beginning of the Neolithic era, when drastic social changes happened.
That would be due to disorders caused to the sexual drive by grain and dairy consumption, which tend to cause a sexual over-excitation and promotes genital intercourse even in the absence of love. The new social rules and order which emerged in the Neolithic were certainly done in response to this situation, to try to make it livable, bearable. But a side effect was the generalization of sexual frustration, which in turn has caused even more abnormal drives.
If cereals and dairy consumption could be compared to a grain of sand (a rather big one, in fact!) in a finely balanced mechanism, it ignited a chain reaction of uncontrollable events leading finally to a catastrophic breakdown of the machine.
You no longer believe in religion, Im also interested in why you were.. and why you are no longer :).
As a kid, I initially believed what we were told by the adults surrounding us. After all, they were teaching us, kids, thus they should have known, they had more time to experiment, question the nature and think than us newcomers in this world…
But at 15 – 16 years old I read a book questioning the say of the Christians. I then also noticed inconsistencies in the Christians dogmas. Religions are limited in space and time: they appeared in the Neolithic (again, and seemingly to fill the void I tried to describe above) and have no universal validity. They are dogmatic, each one pretending to be the exclusive holder of the ultimate truth. The disastrous result is they push peoples against each others, as do nationalisms.
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So, if I got it right.. you still believe in something, but its more of an universal thing rather than a religion?
I myself believe in sexual energy/life energy as being the life force.. having desire for something keeps us going.
Have you read the book, Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill?
It talks about desire and all kinds of desires we humans wish to experience.
Love is ranked 2nd of our utmost desires, number one is still sexual desire.
Ofcourse this doesnt have to be truth, but at this moment in time I do believe it.
I think a wrong diet does indeed hurt the sexual energy, which is a form of becoming a weaker species.
Going back to a paleo diet grows our sexual energy and makes us feel at peace.
I think we think alot the same, allthough we differ on the terms perhaps? U think all ultimate is Love and I think its Sexual Desire.. but I have to say I hope it is Love.. so that I am wrong. But I havent found proof of this just yet :'( ;D.
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So, if I got it right.. you still believe in something, but its more of an universal thing rather than a religion?
I try to avoid all beliefs. I prefer to say that I don’t know, so that I can’t be wrong! That said, the ESP experiences of credible witnesses, and moreover the ones I had myself, tend to convince me that we are usually only aware of a part of the reality, a huge part being inaccessible to our normal sensory perception. I could say that I tend to be spiritualist or pantheist. I can’t figure out what exactly the word “God” means.
Withholding the right to eventually change my views if new facts contradict my current ones... ;)
I myself believe in sexual energy/life energy as being the life force.. having desire for something keeps us going.
Yeah, something like that, akin to the contentious “orgone” of Wilhelm Reich, but not in the way he saw it.
Have you read the book, Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill?
It talks about desire and all kinds of desires we humans wish to experience.
Love is ranked 2nd of our utmost desires, number one is still sexual desire.
Ofcourse this doesnt have to be truth, but at this moment in time I do believe it.
No, I don’t know this book. In GCB’s view, which I find brilliant and facts fitting, love and sexual drive are one and shouldn’t be decoupled. Sexual desire without love is only a kind of “backup program” apparently meant to perpetuate the species anyway in case a few individuals only (perhaps a single couple) remain in an insulated geographic location, if no love is available around.
The normal program would not only be intended for procreation, but essentially serve as a way to transfer “energy – information” by loving physical contact. Procreation would only be a remote function of this so called “metasexual program”. :)
I think we think alot the same, allthough we differ on the terms perhaps? U think all ultimate is Love and I think its Sexual Desire.. but I have to say I hope it is Love.. so that I am wrong. But I havent found proof of this just yet :'( ;D.
Normally, they should be one, both being an integral part of the same entity! Decoupling them seems to be a fundamental and disastrous error of civilization! -d
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So, if Love and sexual energy should be one.. which I would like to believe (and maybe do believe a little)..
Then do you also believe there is just One Love.. or is there the possibility to Love alot of people?
And, if on the correct paleolithic diet.. would it be easy to recognize who this One Love would be?
:o
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Of course, not only one! There will soon be 7 billions people on this planet, how could there be only possibility?
As a matter of fact, the current social rules about marriage, closed couple and family are a total disaster. We lived in tribes for the longest part of our evolution, the private possession of the partner in a closed couple is a love killing prison born with the Neolithic.
We can talk further later, it's time for me to go for a swim!
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U think all ultimate is Love and I think its Sexual Desire.. but I have to say I hope it is Love.. so that I am wrong. But I havent found proof of this just yet :'( ;D.
They are two and same thing.
Unconditional Love and Unconditional Sex. Cannot really be separated.
Selfish love and selfish sex are the product of human disconnection with nature/the divine, imo.
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Glad to see that you agree with me! :)
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Thanks for joining in Aura :).
Maybe I dont understand, but.. are there more than one people than can be actual Love? Not just Lust?
See, Ive been attracted to alot of girls.. but I dont know if I ever loved them tho.
I thought.. maybe its because theres just one girl that I will fall in love with? I dont know ;D.
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Glad to see that you agree with me! :)
Ahaha and I did not read your previous post where you said exactly the same!
Just now! I found it!
:-* ;)
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Thanks for joining in Aura :).
Maybe I dont understand, but.. are there more than one people than can be actual Love? Not just Lust?
See, Ive been attracted to alot of girls.. but I dont know if I ever loved them tho.
I thought.. maybe its because theres just one girl that I will fall in love with? I dont know ;D.
I do not know about you guys but I sometimes think none of us has really ever experienced anything like Unconditional Love. Because we are in the process of getting there.
Not sure about the mystics, the saints or great yogis as I never met one......
Anyway, I think we could have several partners even at the same time and with each one of them, to have a unique relationship.
You could still have a preference for one in particular but this won´t tie you exclusively to her/him..
Do not personally have experience about polyamory..
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I do not know about you guys but I sometimes think none of us has really ever experienced anything like Unconditional Love. Because we are in the process of getting there.
Not sure about the mystics, the saints or great yogis as I never met one......
Anyway, I think we could have several partners even at the same time and with each one of them, to have a unique relationship.
You could still have a preference for one in particular but this won´t tie you exclusively to her/him..
Do not personally have experience about polyamory..
I have friends who are polyamorous or have non-traditional/Christian relationships. And I cant really disagree with them when I think about each relationship and what it fulfills for that person. Like some people really connect with others on levels that aren't complete, but something about what that connection does is enough. I don't know. I don't think anyone should appeal to any standard when expressing love.
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Yes, actually! When I think about those I truly love and am deeply connected to, yes there is much telepathy. I have crossed paths with so many souls that are part of my tribe, and their presence, physically has shown up in so many coincidental situations. It's so hard to explain, but subtle treads of life really tie us together, and somehow that is expressed through our experiences together.
I would say my dreams are very vivid and easy to digest comedies about my deepest truest feelings and emotions.
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Hey, I just found a book that could shed some more light into this interesting topic
It is called: Sex at Dawn: How We Mate, Why We Stray, and What It Means for Modern Relationships
“Sex at Dawn challenges conventional wisdom about sex in a big way. By examining the prehistoric origins of human sexual behavior the authors are able to expose the fallacies and weaknesses of standard theories proposed by most experts. This is a provocative, entertaining, and pioneering book. I learned a lot from it and recommend it highly.” — Andrew Weil, M.D.
“Sex at Dawn irrefutably shows that what is obvious—that human beings, both male and female, are lustful—is true, and has always been so…. The more dubious its evidentiary basis and lack of connection with current reality, the more ardently the scientific inevitability of monogamy is maintained—even as it falls away around us.” — Stanton Peele, Ph.D.
A controversial, idea-driven book that challenges everything you (think you) know about sex, monogamy, marriage, and family. In the words of Steve Taylor (The Fall, Waking From Sleep), Sex at Dawn is “a wonderfully provocative and well-written book which completely re-evaluates human sexual behavior and gets to the root of many of our social and psychological ills.”
So I downloaded the torrent file and converted in a pdf.
http://dw4.convertfiles.com/files/0644503001377387662/sex%20at%20dawn-christopher%20ryan%5Borion_me%5D.pdf (http://dw4.convertfiles.com/files/0644503001377387662/sex%20at%20dawn-christopher%20ryan%5Borion_me%5D.pdf)
I already started reading into it! ;D
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Maybe I dont understand, but.. are there more than one people than can be actual Love? Not just Lust?
See, Ive been attracted to alot of girls.. but I dont know if I ever loved them tho.
I thought.. maybe its because theres just one girl that I will fall in love with? I dont know ;D.
maybe it's a reiteration, and maybe i should just keep quiet... oops, too late.
i think the love is what should be lusted after, not the sex. the sex is something to share with the one you love. going about the process backwards doesn't seem to leave anything but an eventually dissatisfied feeling. sex without the love seems a waste of time.
kaizen, i get the impression you are young? your "lust" for the sex may just be you, not having matured enough to exercise control over your emotions and hormones? is there one person just for you? most likely. when you meet her, do you wish to tell "the one",
"sorry, sugarplum... i can't fulfil the sexual aspect of our relationship because i have a warty, itchy dick... got it from the last girl i thought i could love..." (?)
maybe i just sound like a "dad"...
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maybe it's a reiteration, and maybe i should just keep quiet... oops, too late.
i think the love is what should be lusted after, not the sex. the sex is something to share with the one you love. going about the process backwards doesn't seem to leave anything but an eventually dissatisfied feeling. sex without the love seems a waste of time.
kaizen, i get the impression you are young? your "lust" for the sex may just be you, not having matured enough to exercise control over your emotions and hormones? is there one person just for you? most likely. when you meet her, do you wish to tell "the one",
"sorry, sugarplum... i can't fulfil the sexual aspect of our relationship because i have a warty, itchy dick... got it from the last girl i thought i could love..." (?)
maybe i just sound like a "dad"...
Bkr, please understand I say this with the utmost respect towards you as an elder. But to me (as a young one also) stds are not the best way to scare me away from the beautiful girl that wants to do unspeakable things to me. Sorry man. Its a good argument, but not to a young man. :D
I've been quiet in this thread because I've only had deja vu to the degree of knowing when I had it in a dream before and could say what's coming next twice. My other dreams about love have been nightmares about my ex wife.
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Bkr, please understand I say this with the utmost respect towards you as an elder. But to me (as a young one also) stds are not the best way to scare me away from the beautiful girl that wants to do unspeakable things to me. Sorry man. Its a good argument, but not to a young man. :D
I've been quiet in this thread because I've only had deja vu to the degree of knowing when I had it in a dream before and could say what's coming next twice. My other dreams about love have been nightmares about my ex wife.
no worries, no disrespect perceived at all. and i know it's probably more an issue with me being somewhat of a "fuddy duddy", my opinion on the topic is definitely not what's considered "common", (which is why i stayed quiet until now) but i'm not trying to scare anyone with the old "std" line... just hoping i can encourage good decision making, whether it's to sleep with someone, or not. i know "young men" are not easily swayed by the rantings of a different perspective... you will all live and learn in time, and many will learn different than me. it's only my opinion, the idea that sex is more meaningful than just a physical connection.
may everyone live their own life to their complete satisfaction... whatever the course they take. as for me, i'm pleased with myself.
btw... i consider myself fortunate to not dream about my ex... living with her was a nightmare enough! ;)
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Yes, Jessica, I also sometimes observed wonderful coincidences which could be due to telepathy and/or to Jung’s “synchronicity”.
Kaizen, it seems the normal relationships are triangular, meaning they imply 3 partners. It was the initial situation in your case, you said “she didn’t want to cheat”. If the normality of an open relation were recognized in our customs, there would have been no problem and her initial boyfriend wouldn’t have been left behind. You wouldn’t be in a binary situation now, but in a natural triangular relation. See my explanation here:
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/off-topic/re-can-we-do-without-vegetablesgreens/msg101836/#msg101836 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/off-topic/re-can-we-do-without-vegetablesgreens/msg101836/#msg101836)
Aura, What do you mean by “Unconditional Love”? Isn’t love necessarily unconditional?
Thanks for the pdf. Looks like a very interesting book. I just looked randomly into it and stumbled upon this, page 118:
Leaving aside the complications of defining rape in nonhuman species unable to communicate their experiences and motivations, rape—along with infanticide, war, and murder—has never been witnessed among bonobos in several decades of observation. Not in the wild. Not in the zoo. Never.
Doesn’t that warrant a footnote, even?
The Mysterious Disappearance of Margaret Power
Even apart from doubts raised by bonobos, there are serious questions worth asking about the nature of chimp “warfare.” In the 1970s, Richard Wrangham was a graduate student studying the relation between food supply and chimp behavior at Jane Goodall’s research center at Gombe, Tanzania. In 1991, five years before Wrangham and Peterson’s Demonic Males came out, Margaret Power published a carefully researched book, The Egalitarians: Human and Chimpanzee, that asked important questions concerning some of Goodall’s research on chimpanzees (without, it must be said, ever expressing anything but admiration for Goodall’s scientific integrity and intentions). But Power’s name and her doubts are nowhere to be found in Demonic Males.
Power noticed that data Goodall collected in her first years at Gombe (from 1961 to 1965) painted a different picture of chimpanzee social interaction than the accounts of chimpanzee warfare
she and her colleagues published to global acclaim a few years later. Observations from those first four years at Gombe had left Goodall with the impression that the chimps were “far more peaceable than humans.” She saw no evidence of “war” between groups and only sporadic outbreaks of violence between individuals.
These initial impressions of overall primate peace mesh with research published four decades later, in 2002, by primatologists Robert Sussman and Paul Garber, who conducted a comprehensive review of the scientific literature on social behavior in primates. After reviewing more than eighty studies of how various primates spend their waking hours, they found that “in almost all species across the board, from diurnal lemurs—the most primitive primates—to apes…usually less than 5 percent of their day is spent in any active social behavior whatsoever.” Sussman and Garber found that “usually less than 1 percent of their day is spent fighting or competing, and it’s unusually much less than 1 percent.” They found cooperative, affiliative behavior like playing and grooming to be ten to twenty times more common than conflict in all primate species.15
But Goodall’s impression of relative harmony was to change—not coincidentally, argues Power —precisely when she and her students began giving the chimps hundreds of bananas every day, to entice them to hang around the camp so they could be observed more easily.
In the wild, chimps spread out to search for food individually or in small groups. Because the
food is scattered throughout the jungle, competition is unusual. But, as Frans de Waal explains, “as soon as humans start providing food, even in the jungle, the peace is quickly disturbed.”
The mounds of deliciously smelly fruit locked in reinforced concrete boxes opened only for timed, regular feedings altered the chimps’ behavior dramatically. Goodall’s assistants had to keep
rebuilding the boxes, as the frustrated apes found endless ways of prying or smashing them open. Ripe fruit that could not be eaten immediately was a new experience for them—one that left the chimps confused and enraged. Imagine telling a room of unruly three-year-olds on Christmas morning (each
with the strength of four adult men) that they’ll have to wait an unspecified amount of time to open the piles of presents they can see right there, under the tree.
Recalling this period a few years later, Goodall wrote, “The constant feeding was having a marked effect upon the behaviour of the chimps. They were beginning to move about in large groups more often than they had ever done in the old days. They were sleeping near camp and arriving in noisy hordes early in the morning. Worst of all, the adult males were becoming increasingly aggressive…. Not only was there a great deal more fighting than ever before , but many of the chimps were hanging around camp for hours and hours every day [emphasis added].”17
Margaret Power’s doubts concerning Goodall’s provisioning of the chimps have been largely left unaddressed by most primatologists, not just Wrangham. Michael Ghiglieri, for example, went to study the chimps in Kibale Forest in nearby Uganda specifically in response to the notion that the intergroup conflict Goodall’s team had witnessed might have been due to the distorting effects of those banana boxes. Ghiglieri writes, “My mission…[was] to find out whether these warlike killings were normal or an artifact of the researchers having provisioned the chimps with food to observe them.” But somehow Margaret Power’s name doesn’t even appear in the index of Ghiglieri’s book, published eight years after hers.
We lack the space to adequately explore the questions Power raised, or to address subsequent reports of intergroup conflict among some (but not all) unprovisioned chimps in other study areas. While we’ve got our doubts about the motivations of Pinker and Chagnon (see below), like Margaret
Power, we have none about Jane Goodall’s intentions or scientific integrity. Still, with all due respect to Goodall, Power’s questions deserve consideration by anyone seriously interested in the debate over the possible primate origins of warfare.
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No prob bkr. I probably should start a dream thread asking for help, but the ex thing is crazy. I remember at least 5 dreams enough to share and probably have had another 5 I vaguely remember. All different.
I agree that I think love and sex should be intertwined, probably why I haven't had any sex in over 1.5 years. My last partners I did care about enough that I would take them out and have then meet my friends etc.
Dreams are crazy. The more I get healthy (eat natural raw foods consistently) the more my dreams become vivid and more so; meaningful. Dreams were always a compilation of nonsense as long as I could remember. Now they speak to me more where I cannot deny that they are trying to say something. And it bothers me about my ex wife because I don't know what they are saying. Too much inconsistency.
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Kaizen, it seems the normal relationships are triangular, meaning they imply 3 partners. It was the initial situation in your case, you said “she didn’t want to cheat”. If the normality of an open relation were recognized in our customs, there would have been no problem and her initial boyfriend wouldn’t have been left behind. You wouldn’t be in a binary situation now, but in a natural triangular relation. See my explanation here: http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/off-topic/re-can-we-do-without-vegetablesgreens/msg101836/#msg101836 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/off-topic/re-can-we-do-without-vegetablesgreens/msg101836/#msg101836)
So basically your saying that charlie sheen was right all along? Nice 8).
Then again, maybe Bookittyrun is right and when I get older I will have the need for Love more than Lust.
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Charlie Sheen? Why? I didn't know who is this person and had to ask Google. Found this on Wikipedia about his ideas, apart that he married and divorced several times, which is not at all what I would do:
September 11 attacks
On March 20, 2006, Sheen stated that he questions the U.S. government's account of the September 11 attacks.[107] He said during the interview on The Alex Jones Show that the collapse of the World Trade Center towers looked like a controlled demolition.[108][109]
Sheen has since become a prominent advocate of the 9/11 Truth movement.[110] On September 8, 2009, he appealed to President Barack Obama to set up a new investigation into the attacks. Presenting his views as a transcript of a fictional encounter with Obama, he was characterized by the press as believing the 9/11 Commission was a whitewash and that the administration of former President George W. Bush may have been responsible for the attacks.[111][112]
Lust? Reciprocal ecstasy in orgasm when resulting of love is the most satisfying and enlightening experience. Nothing I know comes close to it.
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Oh sorry :) I thought everyone knew him!
Here; the reason why I made the connection with Charlie Sheen
Charlie Sheen and His Goddesses (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emEM5H9NgTI#ws)
Oh and also he is a famous actor 8)
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Bkr, please understand I say this with the utmost respect towards you as an elder. But to me (as a young one also) stds are not the best way to scare me away from the beautiful girl that wants to do unspeakable things to me. Sorry man. Its a good argument, but not to a young man. :D
yeh, that's the problem with being young. and also the problem with then becoming old. once you have them it will be enough for you to regret that day, perhaps indefinitely, but we are limited in our thinking and considering of consequences in the moment.
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I was wondering what the hell you’re talking about. Then I had the idea to Google for “stds” and found that STD seems to stand for “sexually transmitted disease”. Ah!
So, what’s the problem? This forum is packed with posts explaining how bacteria and viruses are our valuable dear friends but you’re nevertheless afraid of them while being on a raw paleo diet? See the thread “Bruno Comby's report on HIV” (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/instinctoanopsology/bruno-comby%27s-report-on-hiv/)
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have you ever had a wart iguana?
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For God’s sake, dear, why do you ask me that? The last wart I had was a plantar one which spontaneously disappeared about 15 years ago. Never had any on my penis — if that is the question, LOL ;D
BTW, I’m passionately reading “Sex at Dawn” discovered by Aura and linked in her above post. It’s an absolute must read for all of us, a real gem.
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Haha I started reading it too and I'm quite enthralled.
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haha... well, again, while it was not my intention to "scare abstinence" into anyone by mentioning std's, i will mutter one word that should strike fear into the hearts of you "young men"...
babies.
elaborating on what jessica mentioned, what defines the difference between "young men" and "kids", is the awareness of there being consequences to actions. and what defines the difference between "young men" and "men" is the ability to take complete responsibility for one's actions, whatever the consequences. i'm not trying to discourage you maturing guys (and gals) from exploring the big wide world, but to do so with the utmost discretion and self respect. there's been a few threads floating around about "paleo love" and such, but remember, just because you eat a relatively "paleo" correct diet, does not mean you live in paleo times, or a paleo lifestyle. life has changed a lot during the last 300,000 (or whatever) years, and the ability to procreate without repercussion may be a thing of the past. imagine if everyone reverted back to this "procreate and proliferate" mindset... the few remaining lush areas of fertile land we wish to wander would be converted into highrise apartments and agriculture fields to house and feed the bazillion people who would undoubtedly result from this type of "population mismanagement". natural resources are already stretched thin, and those "damn christian types" who encourage maintainable mating practices no doubt could see overpopulation as an issue deeper than just being "perverse, in god's eye"...
mankind makes mother nature weary... we have a responsibility bigger than appeasing our maturing, raging hormones, to take care of the earth...
oh, and for the record... just because i have the word "elder" next to my avatar, do not mistake me for one... i may have a few years on some of you "boys", but nearing middle age does not put me in the same category as some "elders"... i'm just someone who has been there, done that, lived it up, and now i'm a little wiser for it... my only intention is to pass on a different viewpoint, but feel free to make up your own mind...
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Sure, Bookittyrun, life has changed a lot during the last 200,000 or 300,000 years. But still procreation always had repercussions, even if these repercussions are different and/or more acute nowadays.
But “sexual” and “genital” are not synonymous. Moreover, sexual activity with genital contact does not necessarily imply coitus and its associated procreation. Women and men can have a sexual-physical relation with no or infrequent coitus. Orgasm doesn’t need to be during coitus, we don’t need coitus to reach orgasm.
It’s a cultural modern pattern initially due to religious dogma and later comforted by the false theorization that human sexuality single useful purpose is procreation, which made coitus the only ethically “normal” way to have an orgasm, the other ways being called “perversions” by the Puritanism. Human males obsessive drive for penetration may also well be due to opioids in grain and dairy amongst other abnormal substances in modern foods.
Love with physical-sexual contacts has another important purpose than procreation: the structuring of our psyche by transfer of energy-information between individuals. The dysfunction of such love hinders the ability to commonly experience extra-sensory perceptions (ESP).
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Talking about coincidence or maybe.. faith :o
Ive seen my "dilemma" of Lust or Love come to life yesterday.
Ive met these two beautiful girls yesterday (theyre sisters) and both represent one aspect of my dilemma.
One girl is drop dead gorgeous and makes you want to skip the chatting (if u know what I mean).
The other girl is still beautiful, but more like an above average type looking girl, but this girl is awesome in every way.. her intelligence, humor, outlook on life, hobbys.. etc.
But for the first time in my life Im starting to be more attracted to the personality than to the looker.
I was getting bored really fast with the looker and the more I hung out with her, the less attractive she became.
I think Im gonna skip the looker this time and go for the other girl (who is still pretty, but more in a classic sense) to see where it may lead me.
So crazy for this to happen to me now Ive been thinking about it for the last few days ;D.
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Great, but will you ask your regular girlfriend and will she be ok and glad for you if it works — I suppose you’re still together? Ideally all the ones concerned in such a relationship should at least like each other and be friends. But as most people are nowadays neurotically possessive and jealous, it seldom works, unfortunately.
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Great, but will you ask your regular girlfriend and will she be ok and glad for you if it works — I suppose you’re still together? Ideally all the ones concerned in such a relationship should at least like each other and be friends. But as most people are nowadays neurotically jealous, it seldom works, unfortunately.
I think your talking about the girl Ive mentioned in the previous post?
I have not been in a relationship with her and she is still with her boyfriend.
Only thing is that the boyfriend didnt like that she cheated on him, which is something I can understand.
So Ive been single this entire time, but quite some times I am attracted to girls that already have boyfriends (not that I know this beforehand).
I also noticed the jealousy. Its funny how girls tend to be super sweet and enjoyable during the phase of "getting with me", but once I would be exclusive with them, the drama starts. This is the absolute reason for me to not be exclusive with a girl.. I dont need no drama. I see it with all my friends who are in a relationship or have been in one, once theyre officially together, the girl seems to be not so pleasant anymore. I cant imagine its just me seeing this, right? -[ ;D
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I think your talking about the girl Ive mentioned in the previous post?
I have not been in a relationship with her and she is still with her boyfriend.
Only thing is that the boyfriend didnt like that she cheated on him, which is something I can understand.
Ah, I understand. So she came in your bed once, but now it’s over. If she had told and asked her boyfriend beforehand, and if he had met you and given his green light, then all 3 of you would have achieved something great. It wouldn’t have been “cheating”, but something done in total honesty and harmony. But people don’t understand that the third person doesn’t intrude into their intimacy to destroy their couple, but on the opposite is bringing new energy/info which is bound to refurbish their love. :)
So Ive been single this entire time, but quite some times I am attracted to girls that already have boyfriends (not that I know this beforehand).
Yeah, it’s also always been my case too, during all my life. How could it be otherwise since most people are in a couple?
I also noticed the jealousy. Its funny how girls tend to be super sweet and enjoyable during the phase of "getting with me", but once I would be exclusive with them, the drama starts. This is the absolute reason for me to not be exclusive with a girl.. I dont need no drama. I see it with all my friends who are in a relationship or have been in one, once theyre officially together, the girl seems to be not so pleasant anymore. I cant imagine its just me seeing this, right? -[ ;D
Exactly, the “ownership” of the partner is a disaster. It’s not love, but selfishness, materialism. -d
BTW, you don’t have to “choose one” between these 2 sisters you met yesterday! Just let it happen naturally and however it happens, maybe both of them will love you… ;) :)
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For God’s sake, dear, why do you ask me that? The last wart I had was a plantar one which spontaneously disappeared about 15 years ago. Never had any on my penis — if that is the question, LOL ;D
I have warts on my right hand that I cannot get rid of for the life of me. They have died back and become small at times, but never fully died out. Their type or origin are unspecified, I don't want to think they came from sexual contact, but honestly they may have. I have only rid myself of a few of them with self surgery and cauterization, which is not a very pleasant feeling but it works.
They are seriously debilitating to me, I would never want to pass them on to another person, and would abstain from use of my hand, for even holding hands, in a relationship just to make sure this was so. I cant even imagine if I had those on my lady bits, how painful and irritating and also sexually debilitating the situation would be.
I honestly think its really important to make sure of the health, cleanliness and history of your partners. I have known men who have gotten yeast infections from women that they don't know how to heal and let fester for years and still have sex with other women, or men who get little sores that they consider "not as bad as warts" and don't warn their partners about. I don't know, I just think its wise not to engage in sexual acts with people who are not actively aware and healing/healed of their std's or other parts of their lives.
I don't think what I have on my hands ill have forever, I am working on killing them and improving my overall health constantly. I would gladly have abstained from whatever situation caused them if I didn't have them, I cant think of anything that was so satisfying that I would have picked it over having to deal with this.
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>: Sorry to hear that. GCB thinks warts are fed by an excessive consumption of proteins. He had a few when he was eating almost every day a large amount of beef muscle. They disappeared after he had restrained his consumption of red meat.
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Well for anyone who's sexually active it makes sense to get tested regularly. I personally get a full STD panel every time I have my annual physical.
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I got warts for the first time ever one year ago.
A fruitarian friend of mine had them and passed on me..
I generously applied tea tree oil everyday over 2 months and they slowly went away.
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...But “sexual” and “genital” are not synonymous. Moreover, sexual activity with genital contact does not necessarily imply coitus and its associated procreation. Women and men can have a sexual-physical relation with no or infrequent coitus. Orgasm doesn’t need to be during coitus, we don’t need coitus to reach orgasm...
...Love with physical-sexual contacts has another important purpose than procreation: the structuring of our psyche by transfer of energy-information between individuals. The dysfunction of such love hinders the ability to commonly experience extra-sensory perceptions (ESP).
good points...
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i'm stating this before checking... but i thought generic warts (not genital) were caused from a virus?
jessica... yup. here, this is somewhat informative:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/155039.php (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/155039.php)
if you can get past all the ads, there are some remedies that may help...
carry on, forum folk...
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Had an other premonition last night.
My Ex is 7 months pregnant and has not yet found out the sex of the baby. I dreamed I saw her belly and noticed she was no longer pregnant, than I got a vision of the child who was a boy.
I've always had dreams regarding pregnancy and birth. I feel a connection to the new life of the unborn.
My Ex sister in law was pregnant with her first, and though I knew little about her or her husband, one night I had a dream that I was in the future talking to a girl; with red hair named Maggy. Three days latter My Ex told me that the ultra sound showed the child was going to be a girl and that they were going to name her Maggy. After she was born I noticed she did have reddish hair even though her parents both had dark hair.
When 18 I dreamt I was in my cousin's body while she was having a miscarriage. I hadn't heard from or talked with her for over a month. The next day her brother came over and told me she miscarried that very night. I still get freaked out about that one.
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In Lex's journal:
>> ejaculated more than five times per week between the ages of twenty and fifty
Ejaculating 5 times per week is easy when you are in your 20s.
But at 40, 50, 60, 70.... may be a little too excessive don't you think?
I don’t know what the other’s experience is because we don’t openly speak much about this intimate topic, even amongst good friends. But I’m now 67 and didn’t notice much decline in my sexual drive over the years. There is a slight decrease in power, but it’s not that big.
But there was a sudden change at 41 when I started to practice 100% raw instinctive nutrition. Since then I control my sexual activity at will, which was not the case before: I couldn’t fall asleep without having an orgasm. It was a kind of obsessive compulsion. Now, if I want to sleep, I usually sleep, but if I want an orgasm I can have it as well, as before. :)
BTW: good one, Saberthooth!
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When it cums to orgasm.... The question is about quality and not quantity. Im 30 years old and like to change it up regularly. I go about every other day, sometimes wait up to 4.
Sure I could spout off every day, but I find it more enjoyable to let the fluids build up a little. Give the semen time to properly mature, then make sweet slow love followed by an immense climax.
If it becomes an everyday routine then the love drunk effect isn't as strong so I would rather wait until I am fully loaded. My Lady gets more out of the experience too, if there's a little more built up of passion.