Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet to Suit You => Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach => Topic started by: wodgina on July 08, 2008, 06:25:08 pm
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Last week I had euphoria, it started late one night and probably ended 24 hours later.
I had one drink all day before it started and it was warm and I was working in the sun. I'm even having trouble remembering it now.
I want to go that way too..no food, no water...
Andrew
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Sorry, are you saying that the zero-carb meals gave you euphoria, or was it the fact that you were not eating that gave you the euphoria?
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Not sure because I'm eating zero carb, once a day.
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What do you mean by "euphoric"? A calm, clear mind? Where every sense is noticeable in detail? Where colors are more colorful and sounds aren't so loud? I have that too. You'll get used to it.
Craig
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Last week I had euphoria, it started late one night and probably ended 24 hours later.
I had one drink all day before it started and it was warm and I was working in the sun. I'm even having trouble remembering it now.
I want to go that way too..no food, no water...
Andrew
Do you pee much; one drink / no water? What about the cramps? Do you add extra salt to your beef?
Andrew, beef and fat is good - but don't forget a little organs / high meat for extra nutritions and taste!
Nicola
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What do you mean by "euphoric"? A calm, clear mind? Where every sense is noticeable in detail? Where colors are more colorful and sounds aren't so loud? I have that too. You'll get used to it.
Craig
I felt intoxicated but better because I could still drive etc.
spontaneous, social/connected to people, nothing bothered me for long, just buzzing all day cracking jokes didn't get stressed even though I had a test operating a crane.
Do you pee much; one drink / no water? What about the cramps? Do you add extra salt to your beef?
Andrew, beef and fat is good - but don't forget a little organs / high meat for extra nutritions and taste!
Nicola
Beef and fat are good and I'm still eating small amounts of liver. My beef certainly gets a bit high towards the end of the fortnight. Pee normal. Drink when thirsty. Don't add salt to beef but I've ordered azomite. I have been sipping sea water to stop cramps but haven't noticed anything yet.
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Here's some evidence that hunger makes you happy! ;D
http://tinyurl.com/5k2896
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That explains why I have more energy when I don't eat.
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How's the zero carb going for you, Andrew? I hope all is well with you.
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Hi Satya still going but social situations have stopped me being 100% but only in really small amounts. Half a beer etc... it's way too hard to be 100% in social settings. I also been trying pickles and pickle juice for cramps.
I've had some fantastic results with all carnivore with some skin problems clearing up which I thought I was stuck with for the rest of my life.. My dandruff and cracked heels are 90% better..I'm really happy. I've had these non stop for 15+ years!
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Hi Satya still going but social situations have stopped me being 100% but only in really small amounts. Half a beer etc... it's way too hard to be 100% in social settings. I also been trying pickles and pickle juice for cramps.
I've had some fantastic results with all carnivore with some skin problems clearing up which I thought I was stuck with for the rest of my life.. My dandruff and cracked heels are 90% better..I'm really happy. I've had these non stop for 15+ years!
I had cracked heels, which is supposed to be one of the many symptoms of adrenal burnout. You might consider getting hold of raw adrenals or a supplement thereof. Of course, cracked heels are undoubtedly a symptom for many other health-conditions, but I seem to recall that you mentioned recovering from anxiety(which is most definitely adrenal-related).
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Hi Tyler
Anxiety is a problem I still get unfortunately, I started getting low anxiety about the same time I got severe dandruff about 14 years old. The dandruff (dermatitis)/cracked heels problem has been really stubborn which raw carb paleo only produced a limited improvement. I also know that there is a link between these skin problems and anxiety and said to myself a long time ago that my anxiety would not heal until these problems healed also..candida has been implicated in adrenal problems.
Over the last month I cut out 99.9% of carbs/sugar I have had some pretty bad candida symptoms come to the surface. These included severe eczema, severe thrush, tinnitus, severe sugar cravings, dry peeling skin on my face, nervousness. Now the thing is I was pretty low carb according to most thinking on the subject but once I went all meat I realised the hold carbs had on me. Once I got through the really bad patch my candida symptoms have subsided and scalp and feet have become smooth and supple, and I'm pretty happy with that! and feel this way of eating may also start to help out with my anxiety.
Cheers Andrew
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Hi Satya still going but social situations have stopped me being 100% but only in really small amounts. Half a beer etc... it's way too hard to be 100% in social settings. I also been trying pickles and pickle juice for cramps.
I've had some fantastic results with all carnivore with some skin problems clearing up which I thought I was stuck with for the rest of my life.. My dandruff and cracked heels are 90% better..I'm really happy. I've had these non stop for 15+ years!
Yes, well I understand about social issues. And really, I think social times are important and that every little bit of food should not make or break a situation. Really, a beer or some cooked meat on occasion is not going to matter in the long term, is it? With carbs, I may do them on a rare festive occasion, and I just exercise it off and resume on track following. Why be too anal about anything?
So how is the fermented food helping with cramps? As you may know, I ferment plants foods regularly, though it waxes and wanes like the moon. Are there nutrients present in them that help with that?
How do carnivores get enough iodine if they eat only land animals? I am not asking you in particular, Andrew, but I think you avoid fish. I like a bit of seaweed a couple times a week, and I just thought of that. Iodine is really important, but only needed in trace amounts. I will take pictures of the seaweeds I eat soon for fun. And since I miss the ocean and looking longingly at your surfing shot ...
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i put bladderwrack & kelp (among other things such as a celtic salt brine, etc.) in my anaerobic meat fermentations
the seaweeds disappear in 24 hr, eaten by the bacteria i presume, but the iodine should still be there somewhere (in the meat, the juice, or the bacteria)
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i put bladderwrack & kelp (among other things such as a celtic salt brine, etc.) in my anaerobic meat fermentations
the seaweeds disappear in 24 hr, eaten by the bacteria i presume, but the iodine should still be there somewhere (in the meat, the juice, or the bacteria)
I'd love for you to put up a recipe in the recipe section of one of your "anaerobic meat fermentations." Complete with bladderwrack and kelp if you will :D
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Yes, well I understand about social issues. And really, I think social times are important and that every little bit of food should not make or break a situation. Really, a beer or some cooked meat on occasion is not going to matter in the long term, is it? With carbs, I may do them on a rare festive occasion, and I just exercise it off and resume on track following. Why be too anal about anything?
So how is the fermented food helping with cramps? As you may know, I ferment plants foods regularly, though it waxes and wanes like the moon. Are there nutrients present in them that help with that?
How do carnivores get enough iodine if they eat only land animals? I am not asking you in particular, Andrew, but I think you avoid fish. I like a bit of seaweed a couple times a week, and I just thought of that. Iodine is really important, but only needed in trace amounts. I will take pictures of the seaweeds I eat soon for fun. And since I miss the ocean and looking longingly at your surfing shot ...
I was way more relaxed on eating cooked food/carbs/beer socially previous to zero carb even though I would feel pretty average the next day but it is important to eat out with people and worth it too. Just get straight back into it when you can.
I've always hated pickles but I liked the ones I just bought that were really tasty! anyway I'd heard people mentioning that eating pickles was good for cramps so I did a bit of research and seems cramps can be brought on by a acetylcholine deficncey, it's not the minerals in the pickles but the acetic acid from the vinegar combining with choline (B vitamin). So I thought I'll bolt down some raw liver (contains heaps of choline) and wash it down with some pickle juice. Haven't fully tested how good it works yet but I couldn't bring on any cramps in my jaw which I usually can.
Iodine could be like vitamin 'C' where if you eat all carnivore you don't much? I sip seawater occasionally and also eat oysters occasionally I wonder if that's enough.
I might also try some seaweed next time I find some, there's a green one which looks like lettuce which I think aborigines would eat so I will give that a go.
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I'd love for you to put up a recipe in the recipe section of one of your "anaerobic meat fermentations." Complete with bladderwrack and kelp if you will :D
I second it. I have not done high meat (aerobic fermentation), but I have years of experience anaerobically fermenting vegetables (sometimes even with anchovies in kimchi). Please give us iinstructions on it, Andrew. And maybe take pictures and place it in the recipe gallery. Pretty please.
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I'd love for you to put up a recipe in the recipe section of one of your "anaerobic meat fermentations." Complete with bladderwrack and kelp if you will :D
Thirded.
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I did a bit of research and seems cramps can be brought on by a acetylcholine deficncey, it's not the minerals in the pickles but the acetic acid from the vinegar combining with choline (B vitamin).
I've always connected cramps with the lack of magnesium. When I got cramps (especially during pregnancy), I would start taking magnesium pills, and the cramps would be gone right away.
It's interesting that acetylcholine defficiency could also bring on cramps. I haven't heard about it. have you considered taking L-tyrosine as a supplement. I recently started taking it in order to help me quit smoking. It is said that people who are addicted to smoking are also defficient in acetylcholine. The tyrosine pills really helped. They both made it easier to go through the withdrawal as well as relieved the "foggy brain" syndrom.
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Hi Felicie
I also have heard evidence that muscular people are more likely to suffer cramping problems.
But yes the acetylcholine deficiency could be the way to go in fixing cramps as I've taken magnesium before and doesn't do anything I haven't tried adding heaps of salt yet I used to eat heaps of salt in my SAD days and this did nothing to my cramps.
For me I suspect cramps are caused by candida. I've been struggling with candida ever since going zero carb. I''m not far off two months now and symptoms of candida are still causing problems.
As far as smoking goes I craved cigarettes occasionally and find it helped me think.
Tyrosine, is that an amino acid? I eat plenty of raw protein so I doubt it would do anything!.
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You're still having candida symptoms after not eating any carbs for almost two months? I would think all the candida would be dead and gone by now with nothing to feed on for so long.
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You're still having candida symptoms after not eating any carbs for almost two months? I would think all the candida would be dead and gone by now with nothing to feed on for so long.
You would think so wouldn't you? Now I'm starting to believe the 'Gurus' AV says 2 years, self appointed candida god, Bee Wilder, proposes 1 month for every year you've had the overgrowth. So 28 months to go.
I had been resigned to the fact that I would suffer certain health issues for the rest of my life. Especially after trying Raw Paleo for a reasonable period of time did not solve these issues. I had massive improvements in all areas but I still had some stubborn health issues which did not seem to heal. Zero carb, all carnivore has given me hope. I think some of us are so ill that any carbs in whatever form are a big no no. Healthy people can handle these because there bodies are strong. I think Lex mentioned this also. I would also like to add that being athletic/lean does not mean your healthy. I've always been athletic my whole life, even when my health problems had me at rock bottom. Look at Lance Armstrong.
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Hi Satya still going but social situations have stopped me being 100% but only in really small amounts. Half a beer etc... it's way too hard to be 100% in social settings. I also been trying pickles and pickle juice for cramps.
I've had some fantastic results with all carnivore with some skin problems clearing up which I thought I was stuck with for the rest of my life.. My dandruff and cracked heels are 90% better..I'm really happy. I've had these non stop for 15+ years!
I just had dry skin myself, but it is totally gone now. It must be the fat and collagen in meat that helps this, as well as removal of carbs. At least for me, I didn't notice these changes until cutting out the fruit and veg (which are the only plant foods I had eaten in a year). We are not the only ones experiencing these positive changes either - there are just dozens of others who report the same things switching to zc. My sleep is so sound and solid - much more so than on a raw mixed diet. I think semi raw is important, but I also feel that dropping the non essential carbs is more important to my overall health. Having experimented with both, I can see the difference clearly now.
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I just had dry skin myself, but it is totally gone now. It must be the fat and collagen in meat that helps this, as well as removal of carbs. At least for me, I didn't notice these changes until cutting out the fruit and veg (which are the only plant foods I had eaten in a year). We are not the only ones experiencing these positive changes either - there are just dozens of others who report the same things switching to zc. My sleep is so sound and solid - much more so than on a raw mixed diet. I think semi raw is important, but I also feel that dropping the non essential carbs is more important to my overall health. Having experimented with both, I can see the difference clearly now.
Dry skin is a candida issue.
Carnivore sleep is deep and brief, its amazing! No nightmares no 'bad nights'.
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Dry skin is a candida issue.
Carnivore sleep is deep and brief, its amazing! No nightmares no 'bad nights'.
Thanks, Andrew. Well, at least the dry skin is gone. But now that you mention candida, I am feeling all itchy, lol. The sleep is amazing!
I sent a pm to you on the other forum, btw.
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How long have you been zero carb now Andrew? What other improvements have you noticed since going zc in addition to curing dandruff & dry/cracked skin?
Like yourself, I've long had problems with candida and am aware of Bee Wilder's yahoo group and website. Certainly people in her group who follow her advice seem to recover well but I'm not convinced much of it is necessary. I, too, think zc is the quickest surefire way to beat it. I'm always very interested to read your own comments and experiences!
I've been cutting down carbs for some time now. I'm at the point where my diet consists of meat (lamb, mutton, beef, venison), fat (bone marrow & very fatty cuts of meat) and very limited veg accompaniments for flavouring (basically just garlic, parsley & red onion). From your own experiences, would you suggest that dropping the accompaniments would greatly aid and speed candida recovery?
Satya, have you now advanced towards zc yourself?! What have been your experiences?
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I would love to understand why it supposedly takes so long to get rid of candida. I understand that spores for all micro organisms are everywhere and you can never get rid of those, so all you can do is limit or remove it's food supply in your body and eventually it will starve all of the living ones and only the spores will pass through you without anything to grow on. But why so long for this process? Is it because even on zero carb you still have some carbs in your system? And if so, wouldn't that support forever a small candida population, rather than eventually wiping them out? And furthermore can candida truly not live on anything but carbs?
I'm open to all of this, but the candida talk sometimes to me sounds like the "detox" that raw vegans talk about; whenever there's a problem they stamp it on there and then say it takes all this time to get rid of. And the other similarity is there is no proposed way of measuring it inside you or measuring the change of population, etc...not something I can really put my entire belief into.
I'm not sure I have the will power at this point to go zero carb for long enough to see these effects, like a year or more.
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Zero-carb approach could not be enough
the real problem in modern world is dental toxicity - toxic fillings (e.g. amalgams), root canals, cavitations, etc.
read "It's All in Your Head: Link Between Mercury Amalgams and Illness" of Hal Huggins
when you've got mercury in you body (in your teeth) you'll always have overgrowth of Candida albicans, as it is transforming very dangerous form of mercury into some less dangerous, so it plays quite postive role (only in this case, of course)
you should fight the real cause and with zero-carb rawpaleodiet you'll certainly win
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I'm not sure I have the will power at this point to go zero carb for long enough to see these effects, like a year or more.
When I had candida I did a 3 day zero carb + zero protein + 100% fat diet called the virgin coconut oil detox.
It is both zero carb and zero protein.
The problem with candida is it can live on protein so zero carb is not enough.
See http://tinyurl.com/vcodetox
also my experience at http://www.myhealthblog.org/2006/10/21/i-tried-a-3-day-virgin-coconut-oil-detox/
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I don't have dental fillings.
And if candida can live on protein than it will just recolonize when you add that back in.
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I'm open to all of this, but the candida talk sometimes to me sounds like the "detox" that raw vegans talk about; whenever there's a problem they stamp it on there and then say it takes all this time to get rid of. And the other similarity is there is no proposed way of measuring it inside you or measuring the change of population, etc...not something I can really put my entire belief into.
The best way I keep track of how bad candida is is from the level of oral thrush (white stuff) on my tongue.
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Your body produces carbs out of protein and fat. Doesn't this mean that it is impossible to rid your body of carbs? I have also read on the zero carb forums that sugars are the only thing bacteria can feed on to cause cavities; yet I have never had a cavity in my entire life... until I tried zc. They shrunk and I only have one small dot on my back right molar now... after I added carbs again.
I guess I'm just not sold on the candida issue being inherently related to carbs.
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Your body produces carbs out of protein and fat. Doesn't this mean that it is impossible to rid your body of carbs? I have also read on the zero carb forums that sugars are the only thing bacteria can feed on to cause cavities; yet I have never had a cavity in my entire life... until I tried zc. They shrunk and I only have one small dot on my back right molar now... after I added carbs again.
I guess I'm just not sold on the candida issue being inherently related to carbs.
How long was your zero carb experience? didn't you mention you were eating up to 30grams of carbs a day in your supposedly zero carb trial. Is this a disguised zero carb bashing post?
I'll take a stab
Not very long or never happened (or see next answer)
yes
and yes
Candida problems are caused be poor diet and the physical degradation of the human race. Someone an OK diet with a well developed immune system will not get candida.
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1st time, almost a year ago. For a solid 2 weeks the most carbs I had was maybe a couple strawberries every day. That's like 4g carbs. I didn't even know there were zero carbers out there, nor was I aware of the back and forth in the various caveats of RP. Just tinkering.
Anyways, my breath started to smell pretty awful. My digestive system started to back up, but I would have diarhea. I was losing energy and feeling lousy. Came home from work one day feeling particularly terrible, and had a craving for berries and honey (I never have had a sweet tooth, and didn't really crave sweets during the zc trial until then), so I decided it was my body talking to me. I loaded up on some choice berries / honey, and IMMEDIATELY felt satisfied and better. My digestive tract loosened up, and I started to feel warm (beginnings of fever). I had a fever that night, and got up about 4 times to take a crap, but each time I woke up I felt better. By morning both my fever and diahrea had subsided. I felt better than I had in quite a few days. I added a few carbs back in for the next few days, but kind of slipped in to VLC soon after (maybe 10-15g carbs every day?) w/o quite realizing it, just kind of habit from the last couple weeks. I started to get some of the same symptoms again - to a lesser extent - so I added some carbs and problem solved. I had a dental checkup about 1/2 way through this ordeal (which was about 4-5 weeks all together), and found out that for the FIRST time in my life, I had cavities. I chose not to get them filled.
Now from about February - April this year, I was doing very low carb, about 30g per day. Then I decided there wasn't really much difference between 30 and 0, and was considering some of the possibilities of growth hormone response, so I figured I'd try zc again, but after about 5 days, again w/ the bad breath. I was also starting to feel odd, not bad really, just not right, it's difficult to explain. So I can go a few days pure meat (I do it fairly often nowadays), but I've gotta get some carbs in or my health declines.
That's the experience of it for me, w/o any attempt to 'bash' zc. I'm glad that other zc'ers have found a diet that improves their health, and are experimenting and contributing to the community through the study of a particular caveat of RP.
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I will however 'bash' the way you chose to respond:
I was talking about candida and dental health in relation to carbohydrates. I was talking about gluconeogenesis, sharing my experience with RP re 'mouth health,' and asking some valid questions. You absolutely failed to respond to me in a way that speaks to the information/questions presented; opting instead to take the easier road of 'bashing,' while simultaneously accusing me of the same.
Why the tendancy to be so defensive? To stifle dissent? Yes I've got some differences of opinion, but discussion/debate is a great way to gain new knowledge and refine those opinions, as long as we stay on topic...
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I have also read on the zero carb forums that sugars are the only thing bacteria can feed on to cause cavities; yet I have never had a cavity in my entire life... until I tried zc. They shrunk and I only have one small dot on my back right molar now... after I added carbs again.
Query: How long ago was this, how many cavities did you have?
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Zero-carb approach could not be enough
the real problem in modern world is dental toxicity - toxic fillings (e.g. amalgams), root canals, cavitations, etc.
read "It's All in Your Head: Link Between Mercury Amalgams and Illness" of Hal Huggins
when you've got mercury in you body (in your teeth) you'll always have overgrowth of Candida albicans, as it is transforming very dangerous form of mercury into some less dangerous, so it plays quite postive role (only in this case, of course)
you should fight the real cause and with zero-carb rawpaleodiet you'll certainly win
+1 and more
I think that it's toxicity in general (or in my language, poisons) including most carbohydrates. Consider the 100,000+ man-made chemicals in our environment, in water, air, food, put in teeth, injected into bloodstream etc.
The only thing that seems to work well for me is zc, and it was shortly after I started that that the coating disappeared from by tongue, never to return.
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This was Aug-Sep last year. On the outside of 3 bottom molars, you could see a small black dot (caries), on one of them it was somewhat larger than a dot. Over the course of a few months two of them shrank and disappeared, the large one still lingers, though it too has shrunk considerably.
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... is deep and brief, its amazing! No nightmares no 'bad nights'.
Thanks, Andrew. ...
My sleep is so sound and solid - much more so than on a raw mixed diet. I think semi raw is important, but I also feel that dropping the non essential carbs is more important to my overall health. Having experimented with both, I can see the difference clearly now.
I have a friend who would not shy away from raw meat or organic food and has terrible nightmares. I'd like to know how many of you have support to get rid of dreams by going RZC.
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I rarely have dreams and never have nightmares.
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Yes, as I have reported in the past, my nightmares went away when I cut down on carbs and when I eat VLC or ZC I have few or no cases where I am conscious of any dreams. If I eat too much of certain carby foods, I start to have more dreams that I am conscious of and my sleep becomes more restless and I can even end up with muscle tension throughout my body, flank and bladder pain and other issues the next morning. Interestingly, I found that most centrifuged and raw honeys can cause the dreams and restlessness and other issues, but apparently not raw fermented honey, though it's early in my experiments with this. Why the difference, I don't know, but apparently there's more to it than just the carbs aspect.
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I rarely have dreams and never have nightmares.
Was it different before you cut out the carbs? Did you always eat this way?
apparently there's more to it than just the carbs aspect.
The person I'm thinking of, of course they're eating a good (fairly large) amount of carbs each day, organic etc but carbs nonetheless. I know when I get close to or am actually eating zero carb, my sleep is brief, deep, restful, healing and no dreams. With certain carbs sometimes I get awesome dreams. I like the dreams.
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I know this thread is rather old, but to the original poster, your euphoria might be because of elevated levels of B-Hydroxybutyrate (BHB) if your in ketosis.
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It looks like you're right:
Low-carb diets, fasting and euphoria: Is there a link between ketosis and c-hydroxybutyrate
(GHB)?
http://www.moodfoods.com/dieting/fasting.pdf
"Anecdotal evidence links the initial phase of fasting or a low-carbohydrate diet with feelings of well-being and mild euphoria. ... Here I hypothesize that, the mild euphoria often noted with fasting or low-carbohydrate diets may be due to shared actions of BHB and GHB on the brain."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta-Hydroxybutyric_acid
beta-Hydroxybutyric acid (also known as beta-hydroxybutyrate or 3-hydroxybutyric acid) is a ketone body.
Jari, May 23, 2007 at 11:35 am
"And ketones are THE preferred fuel for the heart, making that organ operate at about 28 percent greater
efficiency." -MRE
Source, please?
Hi Jari,
Here is one source.
Richard Veech, the author, is probably the world’s leading authority on ketone metabolism.
Here is a quote from the article that you won’t find in the abstract. After discussing his experimental results in determining heart efficiency with different fuels and finding that ketones increase efficiency by 28 percent, he writes:
"The fundamental reason why the metabolism of ketone bodies produce an increase of 28% in the hydraulic efficiency of heart compared with a heart metabolizing glucose alone is that there is an inherently higher heat of combustion in -B-hydroxybutyrate [a ketone] than in pyruvate, the mitochondrial substrate which is the end product of glycolysis."
Cheers,
MRE
Metabolism and ketosis
22 May 2007, 23:50 Uhr
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/metabolism-and-ketosis/
> Of course, you can start eating a lot of coconuts like the Tokelauans or Kitavans and you can elevate your
B-hydroxybutyrate even with a normal carb intake. Uh-oh - now our thyroid glands will die!
> VLC eaters can fast with no discomfort whatsoever - serum BG is stable because you are burning fatty acids and B-
Hydroxybutyrate. You have not said what you are eating, but in my experience hypoglycemia and the resultant
adrenaline surge is a response to too much carbohydrate in the diet - it goes away with VLC eating.
180 + 180 = 360
Friday, February 5, 2010 at 1:31PM
http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2010/2/5/180-180-360.html