Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Hot Topics => Topic started by: Coatue on January 18, 2011, 12:30:21 pm
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So how long does it take to find out usually for your body to give you some kind of signal that raw milk isn't good for you?
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I'm also interested in this. I'll be visiting Switzerland for a couple of weeks and will be experimenting with raw milk to see how it affects me. It seems to do many people very good in digestive related illnesses, but sometimes it doesn't last for some..
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So how long does it take to find out usually for your body to give you some kind of signal that raw milk isn't good for you?
When you cut out certain foods in your diet except the obvious foods you need like raw meat and animal fat, and you still are having issues. Basically, experiment with your body and take breaks from certain foods for a while, i.e. raw milk, and see what happens. Does your skin look better? are you feeling better? are your stools better? stuff like that. I quit raw milk and noticed that I never broke out any more, so then I just stayed off it.
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It all depends on the individual. I have had people insist to me that they did fine on either all raw dairy or just raw butter, and then tell me, 2-3 years later, that they had finally found that they did experience some negative symptoms, albeit minor ones. Then there are others like me:- I, for example, find that I, soon afterwards, have to frequently urinate, plus I get a drugged, euphoric effect( not remotely like the more pleasant (non-drugged) stimulating effect I get from "high-meat") for a short while, followed some time later by more fatigue. Continuing with raw-dairy-consumption then starts slowly bringing back some nasty conditions I had many years ago before I cut out raw dairy, such as anxiety etc.. The effect on me is less sudden than it was early on in RPD days, as my body has healed fully since then, but worsens over time.
Others, such as sufferers of galactosemia, of course have near-instant harmful effects from dairy, however raw, with nasty things like brain-damage and death occurring if they keep on consuming it, long-term.
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A1 milk is probably no good for anyone, this is the only milk I have access to so I only eat the butter.
Butter is a nice treat but If I was able to get more meat I would just do that. When I can I usually do.
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Yes! Someone who knows about A1 milk! ;)
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A1 milk is probably no good for anyone, this is the only milk I have access to so I only eat the butter.
Butter is a nice treat but If I was able to get more meat I would just do that. When I can I usually do.
What's A1 milk and how do you know if your milk is A1?
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As for those who say that raw butter is okay and raw milk is not, I personally have problems with raw butter. I have diarrhea and a very painful stomach hours after I eat raw butter.
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What's A1 milk and how do you know if your milk is A1?
http://www.windsordairy.com/articles/a1-and-a2-milk.html
Here is a good reference.
A1 milk is more likely to form opoids when digested. I don't drink any milk now, but I remember that I felt dependent on A1 milk. I did not have the same feeling with A2.
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That's interesting! I was looking for something like that to give me an idea of what milk would be best. I am now more motivated to start drinking raw milk once arriving in Switzerland.
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That's interesting! I was looking for something like that to give me an idea of what milk would be best. I am now more motivated to start drinking raw milk once arriving in Switzerland.
Europe usually has the higher A2 breeds. In the US, it's almost all Holstein. Switzerland probably has Brown Swiss cows :P. If you don't have leaky intestine and bad digestion, you should be able to tolerate the smaller amounts of A1 protein.
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As for those who say that raw butter is okay and raw milk is not, I personally have problems with raw butter. I have diarrhea and a very painful stomach hours after I eat raw butter.
I would say that - for myself anyway.
Speaking generally, these foods are night and day way more than apples and oranges as to how they function as foods...yet obviously they share the same source and some properties. You could have selective research and common sense telling you that your experiences makes these things not good, and then again their might be other reasons. We can also make comparisons to eggs or liver or mangos or any other thing that might give some similar kind of distress but doesn't necessarily implicate problems as foods isolated form other internal variables. Might be the right idea to stay away from it particularly if you can get other quality fat sources, but there is no way to isolate if it is ultimately a problem universally or that one cannot be corrected in time if one desires.
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I have diarrhea hours after I eat raw butter.
Same here. No problems with milk, yogurt or cheese.
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Same here. No problems with milk, yogurt or cheese.
Interesting to find people who tolerate milk but not butter.
As for the A2 claims, they appear to be a scam started by a company :-
http://www.redmountainspa.com/_health_education_fitness/articles/a2milk.html
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I have no problems with raw dairy, butter, cream unless I consume it cold. It is better at a minimum of room temperature. Best if body temperature or 104 degrees F like it came from the cow. Warming it is a bit impractical although I am working on it. Maybe a coffee warmer that fits into the USB port. ;D
Pasteurized milk is bad news for me.
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Interesting to find people who tolerate milk but not butter.
As for the A2 claims, they appear to be a scam started by a company :-
http://www.redmountainspa.com/_health_education_fitness/articles/a2milk.html
Yeah, it is real weird. I also feel like a strong urge to throw up sometimes after eating alot of raw butter as well. Its not that I can necessarily tolerate raw milk either, its just that I do not feel any immediate or later effects from it. But, that does not mean that it doesnt negatively affect me long term.
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i used to have lots of desi ghee (as ayurveda loves it) - but i realized that i did not digest it well. Now i have given it up - i really dont miss it.
Ghee is nothing but clarified butter, however its heated to remove all milk solids.
But i dont do well be with either butter or ghee, organic/grassfed irrespective.
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Hey bro,
Can I have bro to bro advice? I used to wake up with morning erections and my libido was coming back until I started lifting weights. I don't want to give up weights because I want to keep a good body composition for many reasons. It seems like I have to chose. Morning erections and Libido or gym. What do you think bro. I am tired of doing blood tests I am over it. I just want to feel good.
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How often do you lift?
Are you drinking milk?
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Hey bro,
Can I have bro to bro advice? I used to wake up with morning erections and my libido was coming back until I started lifting weights. I don't want to give up weights because I want to keep a good body composition for many reasons. It seems like I have to chose. Morning erections and Libido or gym. What do you think bro. I am tired of doing blood tests I am over it. I just want to feel good.
If you exercise too much or do not warm up or advance too quickly exercise can do more harm than good. Maybe back off a bit in your routine.
Better still give a brief description of your routine.
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Hey bro,
Can I have bro to bro advice? I used to wake up with morning erections and my libido was coming back until I started lifting weights. I don't want to give up weights because I want to keep a good body composition for many reasons. It seems like I have to chose. Morning erections and Libido or gym. What do you think bro. I am tired of doing blood tests I am over it. I just want to feel good.
lifting weights will not decrease erectile function, but overtraining will due to excess cortisol causing your T levels to plummet. Be sure to only do short intense exercise for no longer than an hour. Make sure this is also strength training and not some quasi cardio program. Sleep 8-10 hrs a night and eat a lot of red meat, watch your erections improve greatly.
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if tyler durden quotes a study about a1 versus a2 dairy, the study was done with pasteurised dairy !!
he forgot to mention that
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Well,if someone's lactose intolerent,then drinking any kind of milk is bad obviously.As far as dairy products in general,they are apparently mucous forming.Some people care about that and some don't.
In my view dairy products are unnecessary and most people consume them because they have a child-like addiction to them.Fully grown(adult) animals don't drink milk,but humans seem to be emotionally attached to dairy like nobody's business ;)
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Well,if someone's lactose intolerent,then drinking any kind of milk is bad obviously.
Not true. I was lactose intolerant to pasteurized milk for the reasons stated in "The Untold Story Of Milk". However raw dairy is not a problem.
As far as dairy products in general,they are apparently mucous forming.Some people care about that and some don't.
For some people the mucous forming properties are beneficial. Just like for some people the mucous dissipating properties of lemons and ginger and pungent tastes are beneficial. We're all different.
In my view dairy products are unnecessary and most people consume them because they have a child-like addiction to them.
Wow that is quite a statement. All inclusive. Anyone who does what you don't do is an addictee. What about food in general, does anyone who eats, display child-like addictive activities?
Fully grown(adult) animals don't drink milk,but humans seem to be emotionally attached to dairy like nobody's business ;)
Fully grown(adult) animals don't have refrigerators, grocery stores, knives, forks, plates, wooden etc houses, cars, cellphones, gratuitous sex and don't spend hours plunked in front of an electro-mechanic device speculating on what other animals do. Indeed animals display a wide range of activities some being quite different than other animals.
As far as emotional attachment goes to milk....... what is that supposed to mean. Are you emotionally attached to what you eat? To me food is food.
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Fully grown(adult) animals don't drink milk,but humans seem to be emotionally attached to dairy like nobody's business ;)
Fully grown(adult) animals don't have refrigerators, grocery stores, knives, forks, plates, wooden etc houses, cars, cellphones, gratuitous sex and don't spend hours plunked in front of an electro-mechanic device speculating on what other animals do. Indeed animals display a wide range of activities some being quite different than other animals.
Many intelligent animals are opportunists. They eat whatever they can, adult or not. Paleo man would not have had much dairy, but we could follow the path of eating what's available and works for us, as they did too.
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Not true. I was lactose intolerant to pasteurized milk for the reasons stated in "The Untold Story Of Milk". However raw dairy is not a problem.
Nice try.I'm not buying it.You can't make a blanket statement that raw milk is not a problem for every lactose intolerant person on the planet.Glad it's not a problem for you.I stand by what I said:It's unnecessary.You can get better nutrition from other sources.Raw meat is a far superior food for adults.Talking about cars and modern conveniences is irrelevant.
Bottomline:Milk is for babies,meat is for adults.
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I don't care, the babies can share.
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if tyler durden quotes a study about a1 versus a2 dairy, the study was done with pasteurised dairy !!
he forgot to mention that
Granted, studies are mostly done on pasteurised dairy which is what most people eat, but there are many aspects of dairy that do not change significantly via heat such as the excess hormones in dairy , the excess calcium etc. And, yes, I do agree with KS that the main draw with raw dairy is that it is reminiscent of those days when they used to be breastfed or suckle on the teats of infant formula bottles.
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Nice try.I'm not buying it.You can't make a blanket statement that raw milk is not a problem for every lactose intolerant person on the planet.Glad it's not a problem for you.I stand by what I said:It's unnecessary.You can get better nutrition from other sources.Raw meat is a far superior food for adults.Talking about cars and modern conveniences is irrelevant.
Bottomline:Milk is for babies,meat is for adults.
Wow-eeeeee. That´s a lot of statements. Only a true fool can make such ridiculous generalizations.
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Bottomline:Milk is for babies,meat is for adults.
If there's no one to breastfeed a baby, they can eat chewed up raw meat. Supposedly a pediatrician said that one "The Bear Says" or something. I know only know of people who've had success too in giving babies ground raw meat.
I don't care, the babies can share.
We can too. Babies don't have fully digested pancreases, so one of the only adult foods they can eat is that.
I think one of the bigger things is that in the same meal meat and milk interfere with each others digestion. Another is that milk is supposed to be drank from a live flesh teat. If not, either don't do it, or find ways to do it similarly enough.
So, milk IS bad for those that drink fast.
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I think one of the bigger things is that in the same meal meat and milk interfere with each others digestion. Another is that milk is supposed to be drank from a live flesh teat. If not, either don't do it, or find ways to do it similarly enough.
So, milk IS bad for those that drink fast.
Ayurveda says not to mix milk with meat or veges or salt or fruit. It's basically somewhat a monomeal. It's OK to have it with sweet tastes.
Once it has fermented into yogurt etc that rule goes out the window.
Someone told me it is bad news to have with fish. Something to do with proteins fighting with each other.
As far as the live teat, that would be fun but a wee bit impractical. LOL but.... you are right, cold and fast is bad with milk even with strong digestion like mine. You can improve your luck with different spices but this will start a finger fight on this site... ;D ;D ;D
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Wow-eeeeee. That´s a lot of statements. Only a true fool can make such ridiculous generalizations.
Sorry,I'm not going to stoop to your low-level of name calling.I have more integrity than that.Hopefully a responsible moderator will deal with your nonsense.
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Sorry,I'm not going to stoop to your low-level of name calling.I have more integrity than that.Hopefully a responsible moderator will deal with your nonsense.
But you will stoop to sweeping generalizations. Only a fool could think in such black and white.
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...and expect to see moderators come to the rescue when called out.
btw didn't you just call all of us dairy consumers "babies"
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But you will stoop to sweeping generalizations. Only a fool could think in such black and white.
No, only a sensible fellow would be able to draw a sharp, clear comparison between adult, human raw-dairy-drinkers and infants of wild animals who hadn't been weaned yet.
I love that word "wean" ;D ;). I use it whenever possible whenever some long-term raw-dairy-advocate finally starts admitting that they are having health-problems with raw dairy.
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Of course you would be the one to say that! ;D
If I start to ween I will let you guys know, as for the time being....
(http://loyalkng.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/russian-milk-ad-girls-1_007.jpg)
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...and expect to see moderators come to the rescue when called out.
btw didn't you just call all of us dairy consumers "babies"
haha...called out? I don't think so.I know I'm right on this one.I don't care what you think,say,or do.
It just proves my point how child-like you are.Hanging on to dear life with your precious milk.
Btw,it's so easy to act tough on internet forums.If you were in front of me,bet you wouldn't try to act so tough....which is again so child-like and silly.Drink up before you start cryin'.
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You called milk drinkers babies, then claimed not to stoop to name calling.
Hanging on to dear life... right....
No one is acting tough other than you "King".
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It's all good.I stand by my original point: Meat is a superior food for adults compared to dairy.
I don't see what the big deal is.Feel free to disagree.This will be my last post on this.Moving on.
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This will be my last post on this.Moving on.
Is 'dat a promise or a threat...... ;D ;D
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Is 'dat a promise or a threat...... ;D ;D
No, he's just exasperated with all those "born-again" addicted raw-dairy fanatics.
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Oh, man. Some people apparently can be healthy on raw dairy and some people apparently can't. Obviously, the conflict here is between people who have had good experiences with it, versus people who have had bad experiences with it. People can also be "born-again" anti-raw dairy fanatics..
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Oh, man. Some people apparently can be healthy on raw dairy and some people apparently can't. Obviously, the conflict here is between people who have had good experiences with it, versus people who have had bad experiences with it. People can also be "born-again" anti-raw dairy fanatics..
Except that my own reaction against raw dairy is based not so much on my own experiences, but on the vast number of cases where RVAFers claimed to be fine on raw dairy and then subsequently admitted that they were not "detoxing" but had serious issues with raw dairy. Initially, I was prepared to accept the usual raw-dairy delusionists' notions that I was an incredibly rare anomaly/exception to the rule, until I came across too many negative reports from people who had previously fervently assured me that they did fine on raw dairy, and then admitted that they did badly on it.
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Except that my own reaction against raw dairy is based not so much on my own experiences, but on the vast number of cases where RVAFers claimed to be fine on raw dairy and then subsequently admitted that they were not "detoxing" but had serious issues with raw dairy. Initially, I was prepared to accept the usual raw-dairy delusionists' notions that I was an incredibly rare anomaly/exception to the rule, until I came across too many negative reports from people who had previously fervently assured me that they did fine on raw dairy, and then admitted that they did badly on it.
Amazing, you still give the same implication that anybody who drinks milk is delusionary.
psst.... ;D I know he's going to answer with the same speech over again that he gives in other similar threads... tee hee.
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Amazing, you still give the same implication that anybody who drinks milk is delusionary.
psst.... ;D I know he's going to answer with the same speech over again that he gives in other similar threads... tee hee.
Childish and stupid, of course, as always. I have always previously maintained that it is possible for a minority to thrive on raw dairy. The trouble is that the pro-raw-dairy-advocates find it offensive that anyone can claim that they have issues with raw dairy, so that they automatically criticise anyone who damns raw dairy in any way!
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The trouble is that the pro-raw-dairy-advocates find it offensive that anyone can claim that they have issues with raw dairy, so that they automatically criticise anyone who damns raw dairy in any way!
The trouble is that the (anti)-raw-dairy-advocates find it offensive that anyone can claim that they (do not) have issues with raw dairy, so that they automatically criticise anyone who (does not) damn raw dairy in any way!
LOL Right back at ya. ;)
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The trouble is that the (anti)-raw-dairy-advocates find it offensive that anyone can claim that they (do not) have issues with raw dairy, so that they automatically criticise anyone who (does not) damn raw dairy in any way!
LOL Right back at ya. ;)
And then there's the anti-pro-raw-dairy-advocates..... ;D who can't not agree also. LOL
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The most logical argument is obviously the fact that all mammals are to be weaned off dairy by a few years of age. Logically, human adults are not meant to drink milk, it is food for babies. The calcium scam is a myth as well. Physiology and biomechanics tell us that weight bearing exercise trumps calcium, and besides the logic stands to reason that if an adult lion (or any adult mammal) does not need calcium, why should we? How do any carnivorous animals get calcium for that matter? How do dogs? Cats? Hawks? Bears?
Dissenents of this logic would say that carnivores get calcium from bones, but does anybody really know if that is in fact true? How many mg of calcium does a dog get from the average bone gnawing? How do pacific islanders in tribes get their calcium without milk I wonder? LOL
When russian astronauts went into space for the first time, they suffered extreme osteoporosis and calcium supplementation did JACK squat for restoring bone health. Weight bearing strength training proved superior when it reversed their osteoporosis.
I am getting off point here, the argument still stands whether milk is healthy or not, and I must say, whether it is healthy or not, the logic just is not there. Natural selection and micro adaptations in human evolution allowed vikings and northern europeans to adopt dairy when meat may have been scarce. Those who had severe problems with meat died off, those that did not lived, but that still does not mean milk should be in the human diet. All it means is that milk kept us alive in a time where meat could not have provided us with enough calories.
Finally, anyone following a true paleo diet does not drink milk. Milk is a product of domestication. Laziness, grains, soy, and all the other crap that followed were products of domestication as well. To put this all into perspective, those that want to practice a REAL paleo diet need to throw the milk in the garbage and start eating like a hunter gatherer.
I was once a believer of raw milk myself, till I noticed that I was going on 6 months on the primal diet and still had acne all over my face and body. I gave up the milk and went full meat only paleo, and what do you know, 100% clear skin. I also feel that milk was giving me feminizing effects and now I am reversing those, like having a deeper voice, more chest hair/ facial hair growth, and a leaner build. I dont retain as much water anymore like I used to. I had a problem where I would hold so much water after a meal that I would be lean before dinner and bloated/ fat after.
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Granted, studies are mostly done on pasteurised dairy which is what most people eat, but there are many aspects of dairy that do not change significantly via heat such as the excess hormones in dairy , the excess calcium etc. And, yes, I do agree with KS that the main draw with raw dairy is that it is reminiscent of those days when they used to be breastfed or suckle on the teats of infant formula bottles.
ok fair enough
you mentioned it changes the calcium magnesium ratio too much
yet this can be balanced by taking silica
and, does this apply to any calcium rich food ?
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ok fair enough
you mentioned it changes the calcium magnesium ratio too much
yet this can be balanced by taking silica
and, does this apply to any calcium rich food ?
Using artificial means such as silica or raw pumpkin seeds does not make raw dairy any less healthy, it's just a quick-fix.
As regards the calcium:magnesium ratio, it only applies to dairy as it is the only food with a 7:1 to 12:1 calcium:magnesium ratio. The only other food that comes close are eggs which are something like 3:1 or 4:1(?) by ratio, last I checked - not enough to be too damaging.