Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum

Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Hot Topics => Topic started by: bachcole on July 05, 2012, 01:47:19 am

Title: I love salt
Post by: bachcole on July 05, 2012, 01:47:19 am
I confess that I really like the salt in chips and that I never really was all that crazy about the chips per se.  People need lots of salt, approximately as much as they enjoy, despite what the mainstream dieticians and nutritionists say.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: goodsamaritan on July 05, 2012, 02:00:37 am
What brand / kind of salt do you enjoy?
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Dorothy on July 05, 2012, 03:17:42 am
I love salt too. My favorite is one from Hawaii mixed with red algae.
You might like the website Watercure2.com. In that website the importance of hydration in treating most illnesses is addressed and how salt is needed for the water to be taken into the cells through osmosis.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: TylerDurden on July 05, 2012, 03:53:28 am
Most RVAFers hate salt. I find it particularly unpleasant.

Incidentally, this should have been put in the hot topics forum. I'll do that now.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Dorothy on July 05, 2012, 04:44:17 am
Perhaps it's because I eat more plant foods than most RVAFers?
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: White shark on July 05, 2012, 07:27:25 am
Salt is healthy. I use himalayan crystal salt, its full of trace minerals. But i dont think table salt is healthy.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: eveheart on July 05, 2012, 09:16:08 am
I confess that I really like the salt in chips and that I never really was all that crazy about the chips per se

Chips of what?
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: TylerDurden on July 05, 2012, 12:57:07 pm
Chips of what?
"Chips" in UK slang means "French Fries" in US slang. Though, I believe USers are thinking of "crisps" when they refer to "chips".
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: HIT_it_RAW on July 05, 2012, 07:08:59 pm
Try eating salt by itself. See how much you really like it... If you (for example) hate kiwi but love it when mixed with other stuff, in a minute concentration, can you really say you like kiwi?

I hate salt. It burns and destroys mucus membranes
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Dorothy on July 05, 2012, 09:49:47 pm
I actually like eating salt by itself. Sometimes I will put a little in the palm of my hand and lick it up with my tongue. I do like to drink water after that though. I do this especially when I've been outside in the heat for a while and feel immediately better and am ready to go outside again. Without enough salt here in the triple digit heat I can't stay outside long at all.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: bachcole on July 06, 2012, 03:24:06 am
When I say that I love salt, I mean that I will touch some salt with my finger, and then lick my finger.  But I generally only feel like doing that when I have been veggie juicing.  I think that veggie juice is sort of low in sodium, so that is why I am inspired to do this.

During my fast, I was lusting at some chips (like Doritos without the spice), and realized that it wasn't the carbs in the chips I wanted.  It was the salt.  So I started supplementing my raw juice/single egg/coconut oil fast with a dab of salt.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: goodsamaritan on July 06, 2012, 06:12:08 am
When I say that I love salt, I mean that I will touch some salt with my finger, and then lick my finger.  But I generally only feel like doing that when I have been veggie juicing.  I think that veggie juice is sort of low in sodium, so that is why I am inspired to do this.

During my fast, I was lusting at some chips (like Doritos without the spice), and realized that it wasn't the carbs in the chips I wanted.  It was the salt.  So I started supplementing my raw juice/single egg/coconut oil fast with a dab of salt.

Ah very logical.  Thanks for this nugget of info.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: jessica on July 06, 2012, 06:42:02 am
i love salt too, and agree that sometimes if i am not satisfied after a meal, just a bit of salt on the tongue will satiate my appetite
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: PaleoPhil on September 08, 2012, 07:25:13 am
A positive take on salt, FWIW:

BIL 2012 - Dave Asprey - Bio Hacking, Longevity Via Salt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDWRDCM3BXo#ws)
(Warning, there were technical difficulties during the video, though he got through the presentation.)
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: AlphaCog on September 08, 2012, 12:21:29 pm
The Salt Deception (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJlPoRc1To0#ws)

A saline IV bag has 9g of NaCl(per litre). Patients in the hospital receives up to 3 IV bags a day. That's more than 30g of NaCl per day if one includes eating which is more than 13 times the RDA(1500–2300 mg NaCl).

I heavily salt my drinking water(more than 7g salt per litre). I don't get dehydrated and I get all the trace mineral goodness, and I think I ate less food because of it. Personally I think not having enough salt will tax the kidneys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renin%E2%80%93angiotensin_system) more than slight overconsumption.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Chris on September 09, 2012, 12:57:58 am
Salt is part of the our diet. I never measure how much salt I use per day. It's always done by taste. I use Himalayan Salt and I buy it by the bag. I never bought into the hype that salt was bad for us. Now, processed salt with all the minerals taken out, then add  back inorganic Iodine. That can't be all that healthy for us. Natural unprocessed Salt is the best option. Very interesting video PaleoPhil. Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: eveheart on September 09, 2012, 01:33:57 am
I am fascinated with the information on both the Asprey and Salt Institute videos. What perked up my ears the most was the correlation between low salt intake and insulin resistance. I've listened to both videos several times and I'm having a major a-ha! moment, along with a lot of anger at "my government" and "my medical profession." I've increased salt intake for a while now, but the importance was not made clear until I listened to these two videos.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Dorothy on September 09, 2012, 02:00:11 am
So others don't have to look it up 1 teaspoon = 5.69 grams of salt.

Ideal daily dose stated in above video according to studies was 10 - 15 grams of salt.

That means TWO TEASPOONS OF SALT a day!

That's a lot of salt. I've been sprinkling it on my food because my body likes it and wondering if there was something wrong with me. Looks like my body just knows better than the government. ;)

Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Chris on September 09, 2012, 03:29:47 am
I've been sprinkling it on my food because my body likes it and wondering if there was something wrong with me. Looks like my body just knows better than the government. ;)
Great Quote Dorothy! I got a chuckle from that one. It makes you wonder who the FDA is working for? I thought they were suppose to protect us, instead of hindering us! It's scary if you believe everything that's out there! Thank God for free thinkers in this world. Seems like we're being fed more propaganda from our Government everyday. Next thing you know they'll be spying on our phone calls, internet activity, and emails.  ;)
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Alive on October 04, 2012, 05:00:41 pm
Here is a radio report on the latest science that it is good to eat salt (at least for the typical person on a SMD that have been studied):

The science of salt
The advice that salt is bad for us and that we should limit how much of it we eat is one of the key public health messages out there. But does the science behind all these warnings really stack up? Science writer Gary Taubes doesn't think so. (22?11?)
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/thiswayup/audio/2522047/the-science-of-salt.asx (http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/thiswayup/audio/2522047/the-science-of-salt.asx)
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: raw-al on September 23, 2013, 11:13:06 am
I can't eat salt without some kind of bad reaction.

However, for some people it is a Godsend and there are many shades of grey in between
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 06, 2013, 02:06:59 am
Salt is great food...for plants.

For me it is a serious irritant and I try to avoid it as much as possible.

If you want to know what salt is really doing to your mucous membranes on the inside then pour some on the mucous membrane of a slug. What happens to your mucous membranes is no different.

I hear it helps people who eat a lot of plant foods but you shouldnt be doing that in the first place. When I went really heavy on the animal foods my cravings for salt went down big time.

Sorry but I dont think eating rocks is the healthiest thing for a human to do.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: van on October 06, 2013, 04:20:00 am
When salt as described as toxic or an irritant, it's usually described as a concentrated source with water removed.  But with the water and salt ( minerals left in a natural balance ) intact, whole oceans supporting life beyond imagination thrive perfectly. 
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: PaleoPhil on October 06, 2013, 08:44:33 am
As Lex pointed out in 2010, salt is used by the body in making HCL for stomach acid: http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/primal-diet/salt-and-hydrochloric-acid/?action=post;quote=30844;last_msg=31217 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/primal-diet/salt-and-hydrochloric-acid/?action=post;quote=30844;last_msg=31217)

I haven't seen studies on salt or betaine HCl supplements and stomach acid production, but to me it makes more sense to consume the elements that the body uses to make HCl, like salts, than to give the body the HCl end-product (though some claim that betaine HCl supplements don't even contain HCl - http://huntgatherlove.com/content/betaine-hcl-whats-deal-does-it-increase-stomach-acidity-does-it-help-gerd-improve-digestion (http://huntgatherlove.com/content/betaine-hcl-whats-deal-does-it-increase-stomach-acidity-does-it-help-gerd-improve-digestion)) and thus potentially signal to the body that HCl production is not needed.

Appropriate intakes of salt also appear to provide health and longevity benefits:

Quote
<<When Michael Alderman, a highly regarded epidemiologist and past president of The American Society of Hypertension scrutinized the [NHANES research data] in patients who were not overweight he reported that "the more salt you eat, the less likely you are to die." ... 

He examined the relationship between sodium intake and health effects in 3,000 patients with mild to moderate hypertension. In addition, his group measured sodium excretion, which is much more accurate than estimating dietary intake. At the end of four years, they found that those who consumed the least sodium had the most myocardial infarctions and other cardiovascular complications.

The reason for this is that when you restrict vital nutrients like salt (or cholesterol) all sorts of strange things can result. Low sodium diets can increase levels of renin, LDL and insulin resistance, reduce sexual activity in men and cause cognitive difficulties and anorexia in the elderly. Tasteless and dull low sodium diets can cause other nutritional deficiencies. Lowering sodium with diuretics to treat hypertension can cause similar problems.>>

Paul J. Rosch, M.D., Take the Latest Low Sodium Advice ... With a Grain of Salt, http://www.health-report.co.uk/sodium_chloride_salt_myths2.html (http://www.health-report.co.uk/sodium_chloride_salt_myths2.html)

<<the decision to adopt a low sodium diet should be made with awareness that there is no evidence that this approach to blood pressure reduction is either safe, in terms of ultimate health impact, or that it is as effective in producing cardioprotection>>
Michael H. Alderman, MD, Salt, Blood Pressure, and Human Health, 2000, http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/36/5/890.full (http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/36/5/890.full)

<<In 2004 the Cochrane Collaboration ... published a review of 11 salt-reduction trials ... [which] concluded that "intensive interventions, unsuited to primary care or population prevention programs, provide only minimal reductions in blood pressure during long-term trials." A 2003 Cochrane review of 57 shorter-term trials similarly concluded that "there is little evidence for long-term benefit from reducing salt intake.">>
Animal blood contains salt (http://survivor-magazine.com/tag/salt (http://survivor-magazine.com/tag/salt)). Few moderners consume much animal blood, unlike their ancestors. Even many people following so-called "Paleo" diets do not consume blood or use other ancestral sources of salt, such as salt lakes, mineral springs and mineral water, and further restrict their salt intakes, leading to intakes likely well below ancestral intakes.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: van on October 06, 2013, 09:42:31 am
I used 'HCL' tablets to good results.  I didn't follow the advice to take enough to get a burn in the stomach.   And then I tapered off gradually.  But then I don't know if I'd recommend it or not.  Might be more prudent to build up the amounts of meat one is eating, and to watch food combining.  For instance I notice that raw shredded coconut isn't good for me with a good size meat meal.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 06, 2013, 11:20:56 am
I wonder if there's been a study that tracks sodium levels against the death rate.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 07, 2013, 08:58:10 am
When salt as described as toxic or an irritant, it's usually described as a concentrated source with water removed.  But with the water and salt ( minerals left in a natural balance ) intact, whole oceans supporting life beyond imagination thrive perfectly.

the salty ocean is meant to support a distinctly different form of life than ours, saltwater fish. that fact that they live in this water is no indication that it is healthy for humans to orally ingest in any way whether its in water or not.

If you doubt this I encourage you to take a gulp of sea water and tell us if you still think the salt is healthy even though its in water. I know when I took a gulp of salt water I was sick for weeks.

as far as all this talk of salt being in the blood and everthing else this is also quite irrelevant. Theres a big difference between sodium naturally present in raw foods that is bioavailable and an isolated rock like product that is completely lifeless. Living foods are healthy dead foods are not. Salt is definitly not alive it is actually an anti life environment in which bacteria cannot survive.

this is like saying protien powder is healthy since protien can be found in raw meat. THe logic is completely flawed.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: van on October 07, 2013, 10:00:45 am
I have had many accidental gulps in my life, and never even got close to  getting sick, hence is why I'm suspicious that your opinion is somewhat off center.  If you take meat and dry it in the sun, and then grind it with a rock, you end up with mostly protein powder.  If you take sea water and dry it in the sun, you end with salt including almost every mineral there is on the planet in almost identical ratios as found in the body (excluding the amount of sodium).   I have experimented with and without salt, and found no difference.  I do find that too much salt and I'll retain what feels to be water.  So including all the millions of peoples through out history that valued salt like gold, I don't think it should be something to fear.  Now for you, that may be a different reality.   So then, don't use it. 
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Ioanna on October 07, 2013, 12:50:44 pm
I wonder if there's been a study that tracks sodium levels against the death rate.

ck, what do you mean?
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 07, 2013, 12:52:31 pm
I've seen everything from wondrous healing to unpleasant illnesses caused by the consumption unrefined sea salt intake.

Table salt isn't worth eating, IMO.   Celtic brand sea salt is good stuff, though, especially the Fleur de Sel.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 07, 2013, 12:58:42 pm
ck, what do you mean?

A study that tracks sodium levels against mortality.  I did a quick Google and came up with several that seem to suggest that low sodium levels are more correlated with death than excess sodium levels.

http://circheartfailure.ahajournals.org/content/4/5/637.full (http://circheartfailure.ahajournals.org/content/4/5/637.full)



http://www.medpagetoday.com/Surgery/GeneralSurgery/34692 (http://www.medpagetoday.com/Surgery/GeneralSurgery/34692)

Here's one that says that people with diabetes are especially prone to dying if they have low sodium levels:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2362.2011.02613.x/abstract (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2362.2011.02613.x/abstract)

Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 07, 2013, 01:02:48 pm
Here's one that shows the opposite

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/230981.php (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/230981.php)

However, the salt that those patients were eating was, no doubt, refined table salt, instead of high-quality, unrefined Celtic brand salt (or some equivalent-quality product).

I personally know a guy who got rid of his candida problems by just eating a teaspoon or so of the unrefined Celtic salt every day for several months.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Dr. D on October 07, 2013, 01:03:58 pm
Since this is a thread about loving salt I assume this is on topic: would you mind sharing more about fleur de sel? All I know is its expensive but supposedly the best finishing salt. Beyond that, how does it fair in the raw scope of things? I enjoy salt and find it necessary in small amounts with the occasional binge if I find my body responding beneficially.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 07, 2013, 01:05:10 pm
So I think salt is more important for people who have carb-related problems like diabetes or candida overgrowth.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 07, 2013, 01:07:19 pm
Since this is a thread about loving salt I assume this is on topic: would you mind sharing more about fleur de sel? All I know is its expensive but supposedly the best finishing salt. Beyond that, how does it fair in the raw scope of things? I enjoy salt and find it necessary in small amounts with the occasional binge if I find my body responding beneficially.

When seawater is dried, the fleur de sel (translates as "flower of the sea") is the salt on the top.  The gray salt is from the lower layers, and has bits of sand, grit, etc. mixed in. 

The Celtic brand salts are definitely "raw".

 
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Dr. D on October 07, 2013, 01:13:06 pm
Oh, okay that makes sense. Yeah, I use Celtic sea salt and really like it. It doesn't have that nasty table salt flavor (literally makes me nauseous), and I have noticed the bits of sand and grit. Though they seem to dissolve well enough in the water so that doesn't bother me much. Not worth the extra money then? In other words, your opinion, fleur de sel worth getting over Celtic gray? Thanks.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Iguana on October 07, 2013, 03:37:49 pm
There has already been 3 pages of arguing and disputes about salt here:
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/instinctoanopsology/salt/ (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/instinctoanopsology/salt/)
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 07, 2013, 08:49:11 pm
Oh, okay that makes sense. Yeah, I use Celtic sea salt and really like it. It doesn't have that nasty table salt flavor (literally makes me nauseous), and I have noticed the bits of sand and grit. Though they seem to dissolve well enough in the water so that doesn't bother me much. Not worth the extra money then? In other words, your opinion, fleur de sel worth getting over Celtic gray? Thanks.

I think it's worth it, but I use so little salt that I don't actually bother doing so.  I get most of my salt from my food.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: primalgirl on October 08, 2013, 12:42:58 am
I used to love salt and never in a million years thought I'd ever be able to get off it! But I did (except for very seldom LOL) but seriously when I eat a little too much whew! the symptoms that I get are nuts...dark swollen bags under my eyes, ankles swollen plus who knows what else under the surface. As the late Aajonous Vonderplanitz said in one of his books, "one grain of sea salt kills 50,000 red blood cells".
Food tastes great without it now and I'm blown away by that, it took awhile for that to happen. I started raw primal on October 1, 2010 so this is my third anniversary month and for sure it changed my life!
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Ioanna on October 08, 2013, 07:46:37 am
happy anniversary primalgirl! :)
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 08, 2013, 09:55:44 am
IM so sick of all this talk on here of people drinking water from the ocean. I dont want to call anyone a liar but the fact that I got so sick for weeks after one gulp combined with the fact that any source iv ever found on the  confirms my experience that drinking the ocean is incredibly dangerous i must call bullshit on iguana and van saying they drank ocean water and were fine.

Please show me some evidence other than your anecdotal evidence which I do not believe.

Iv never come across anyone who has said anything other than drinking salt water is highly dangerous.

http://www.marineinsight.com/misc/marine-safety/10-effects-of-drinking-salt-water-of-the-sea/ (http://www.marineinsight.com/misc/marine-safety/10-effects-of-drinking-salt-water-of-the-sea/)

Theres just one article listing the side effects of drinking ocean. I had most of these when I had just one gulp.

Sorry guys but I reiterate, im calling bullshit on this one.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 08, 2013, 09:57:30 am
and theres nothing raw about a dried product such as sea salt. All of my experience with dried meat and dried fruits confirm this for me. Dried foods digest for me just as poorly as cooked. Sometimes even worse.

Perhaps you want to call salt taken from salt mines raw because all that was done to it was that it was removed but I must remind you that all your doing at that point is taking a rock from the side of a mountain and grinding it into powder so you can even begin to actually physically get it into your body. Id hardly call eating rocks raw foodism.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: van on October 08, 2013, 10:15:32 am
I don't think this is going to help you get it, but here goes.  I know all kinds of people who have gulped accidentally and  taken a mouth full of sea water and never got sick. In fact you are the first person I've ever heard of to say such a thing, and I am an ocean swimmer.   I think the problem is your way of needing to interpret what people here write.  I NEVER said that I go out and purposely drink sea water, nor do I think it would do me good.  I DID say I have accidentally swallowed a mouth full.  Big difference.  And further more,, when you really think about it, if you want to, go swim a mile in the ocean, and figure out how much water is going down your throw with all the big breaths of air, and the waves etc. It's more than a gulp.  You seem to get locked onto an idea and will go to great lengths defending your position.  If you get sick with a mouth full of water, that's you and not even close to the rest of the world who spend time in the ocean.  Nor, if we took a poll here, I doubt anyone would have problems eating the same amount of low temp sun dried powered meat as compared to fresh.   But, I will refrain from even suggesting it in the first place, for it will only confuse the issue.  Most table salt is produced in huge high temp processing facilities that have nothing in common to the ancient practice of damning off a tidal flow of fresh seawater and letting the sun evaporate the water until it becomes a dry power.   I suggest you take your experience and if you think others will benefit, let them know of what happens to You.   After that, let it go.  We're not here to convince anyone of anything, only to share. 
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 08, 2013, 11:20:53 am
I can give you countless sources warning against the dangers of seawater drinking such as the one i previously posted from a website for and by seafarers

you have given no evidence

yes the seawater I gulped was accidental and it was the only time I have in my life. I immediately vomited when I got back to shore.

The only people I could find recommending sea water all stressed the importance of drinking only a tiny amount.

This indicates the fact that it is toxic. What other raw food is there that you have to make sure you do not have too much of under penalty of death?

even the strongest toxin becomes unnoticeable in a small enough amount. This is no different for ocean water.


Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 08, 2013, 11:54:14 am
This is very reminscent to me of my experience smoking organic tobacco. One hit feels very healthy to me but when iv done to much iv been on the floor nauseous and miserable. This flags it for me as a dangerous product even though i feel no negative effects from just one hit. Just like you can have a tiny sip of salt water once in a while and be healthy but if you take a big gulp you could get very sick like me.

Such indicators are for me the reason I decided to for the most part completely quit tobacco and salt even though I feel no negative effects in tiny amounts. Cannabis for example doesnt give me such engative effects no matter how much I smoke, putting me to sleep at worst.


Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 08, 2013, 12:01:34 pm
also im quite sick of all this, "it doesnt work for you but might work for someone else".

Why do people think that different humans bodies function differently to certain foods to such an extent? What other animal can you show me on this planet that has such a wide range of things that are good or bad for at these people claim humans have?

The truth is that 99 percent of humans in regards to what substances are harmful to our bodies are the same. This does not mean that resistances to certain toxins dont vary, my point is that whether or not a substance is toxic to humans is uniform throughout humanity, once again, this does not include variabilites in resistance to various toxins.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: van on October 08, 2013, 01:16:18 pm
I am not going to jump in with you anymore.  You want to look up warnings to sea farers who run out of water and try to drink sea water... go ahead.  It has nothing to do with the millions, yes millions of swimmers, surfers, etc.  who every year accidentally swallow a mouth full of sea water and don't get sick.  Again, following your posts for some time, you have a distinct ability to use any and all means to seemingly try to substantiate your opinions.  Believing your thoughts can lead you far from what is real.  I am not going to respond again. 
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 08, 2013, 01:34:17 pm
please show me evidence of someone who has swallowed a mouthful of seawater and not gotten sick.

Anyone not just van. You will find that they dont exist. While the body can handle a small amount of a certain toxin a reasonable amount such as a mouthful of seawater will always make almost everyone someone sick.

Can someone please find me an article promoting sea water drinking that doesnt include a disclaimer saying make sure it is only a tiny amount just like any other toxic substance comes with the same warning.

And can someone please respond to me about pouring salt on the mucous membrane of a slug and what evidence one has that it would react any differently inside the human body.

Once again i shall take a lack of response to my questions as an admission of lack of evidence.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: LePatron7 on October 08, 2013, 08:38:41 pm
Can someone please find me an article promoting sea water drinking that doesnt include a disclaimer saying make sure it is only a tiny amount just like any other toxic substance comes with the same warning.

And can someone please respond to me about pouring salt on the mucous membrane of a slug and what evidence one has that it would react any differently inside the human body.

I can't believe we're even having this discussion. It's ludicrous to think that the reason a snail dies when coming in contact with salt has anything to do with it being bad for humans.

http://www.slugoff.co.uk/slug-facts/salt (http://www.slugoff.co.uk/slug-facts/salt)

The article explains why salt kills slugs, and covers (very little) on why it doesn't kill humans.

By your logic (salt killing a snail) no animal should be alive in the ocean. Or at least they should all be very unhealthy and on the verge of death (like a snail most likely would be if placed in ocean water).
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 08, 2013, 08:45:56 pm
Svrn, you probably either were swimming in an area with contaminated water, or your body just really didn't need salt at that time. Plenty of people have drunk a mouthful of seawater accidentally with no problem.  I know I have.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Iguana on October 08, 2013, 09:03:39 pm
Plenty of people have drunk a mouthful of seawater accidentally with no problem.  I know I have.
Me too, and quite often!

svrn, you seem to be unaware of the Atlantic crossing on a life raft by Dr. Alain Bombard who demonstrated we can survive on raw fish, plankton, rain water and regular small amounts of seawater.
Quote
http://everything2.com/title/Alain+Bombard
Bombard set out to establish how to survive in the event of being shipwrecked, cast away on a life raft. He brought all his humanity and practical knowledge to bear on the subject, combined it with his love of the sea, and crossed the Atlantic Ocean in a rubber boat to prove his point.
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/instinctoanopsology/instincto-opinion-on-water/msg39691/#msg39691 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/instinctoanopsology/instincto-opinion-on-water/msg39691/#msg39691)




Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Inger on October 08, 2013, 09:17:45 pm
Me too, and quite often!

svrn, you seem to be unaware of the Atlantic crossing on a life raft by Dr. Alain Bombard who demonstrated we can survive on raw fish, plankton, rain water and regular small amounts of seawater. http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/instinctoanopsology/instincto-opinion-on-water/msg39691/#msg39691 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/instinctoanopsology/instincto-opinion-on-water/msg39691/#msg39691)






Me too... I did in Norway! I do believe salt is a natural thing for us. I LOVE the salty water in the oyster shell, I always am very careful to not spill one drop of it... and I love to munch on salty seaweed too. Yum.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 09, 2013, 01:15:49 am
The water in the oyster shell is NOT the same as the ocean water.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 09, 2013, 01:24:30 am
Can someone please expliane to me which other raw food on this planet has to be consumed in small amounts under penalty of death?

and the fact that dish swim in salt water has nothing to do with the question at hand which is what happens to our mucous membranes when they come in contact with salt Not what happens when it comes in contact with our skin whic is actually very healthy.

And I love all thse statement by people which prove absolutely nothing.

Okay so the guy was able to drink small amounts of sea water and not die on his life raft, does nobody else see how this proves absolutely nothing?

Please tell me, if i were to do the same thing as this guy and drank diet soda every day instead of the sea water and survived would I have proved that aspartame is a healthy part of the human diet? Im sure this question will be avoided however like the other tough ones I ask, or maybe it will be responded to with more irrelevant facts.

ok great, people have survived a gulp of sea water. The fact is anyone who spends time in the water professionally and teaches people whatever it is they will always tell people not to drink the salt water...because it CAN kill you!

please someone also answer me which other raw food can kill you other than salt water. How long can people avoid the tough questions?
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 09, 2013, 01:56:13 am
Svrn, you're not asking tough questions.  You're just being simultaneously wrong and rude. It sounds like you're having a rough week here.  Do you need to take some time off from the forum to calm down?  I often find that people's posts are less productive if they're having a bad day or a bad week, including my own.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Iguana on October 09, 2013, 03:08:35 am
Can someone please expliane to me which other raw food on this planet has to be consumed in small amounts under penalty of death?

please someone also answer me which other raw food can kill you other than salt water. How long can people avoid the tough questions?
Every single food ingested in excessive amount can kill you, even plain soft water!
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html#DANGERS (http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html#DANGERS)   :)
The whole article is also well worth reading:
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html (http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html)  8)
And if you want to laugh some more at gullible people and politicians (over 50 % of the population in modern industrialized countries  >:), check this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_hoax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_hoax)   ;D ROLF
Some wild berries and wild plants are a neat example of foods which can be beneficial in small amounts but deadly when the proper amount is exceeded.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: PaleoPhil on October 09, 2013, 07:00:46 am
Svrn, you probably either were swimming in an area with contaminated water, or your body just really didn't need salt at that time. Plenty of people have drunk a mouthful of seawater accidentally with no problem.  I know I have.

Me too, and quite often!

Me too--multiple times (during my years in Florida and eastern Massachusetts).
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Dr. D on October 09, 2013, 10:12:40 am
Every single food ingested in excessive amount can kill you, even plain soft water!
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html#DANGERS (http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html#DANGERS)   :)
The whole article is also well worth reading:
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html (http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html)  8)
And if you want to laugh some more at gullible people and politicians (over 50 % of the population in modern industrialized countries  >:), check this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_hoax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_hoax)   ;D ROLF
Some wild berries and wild plants are a neat example of foods which can be beneficial in small amounts but deadly when the proper amount is exceeded.

Great answer! Excellent points.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Inger on October 09, 2013, 12:58:17 pm
I have been drinking plenty of own well water with added celtic sea salt.. I crave it at times. There are days without, and the days when I can drink so many glasses of that! And I feel great  :)

The 1 year old boy of my sister almost ate all  ;) my French sea salt I had ordered from Orkos, he just loved it, plain as it is. I do think we feel if we need salt or not. When it tastes great, there must be a reason - when not, no way would I force take it because that would have a reason too why
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 09, 2013, 03:35:11 pm
Svrn, you're not asking tough questions.  You're just being simultaneously wrong and rude. It sounds like you're having a rough week here.  Do you need to take some time off from the forum to calm down?  I often find that people's posts are less productive if they're having a bad day or a bad week, including my own.

im actually having one of my greatest weeks ever. Im really loving life right now!

Funny how people still wont answer my questions though.

id also like to remind you that you are in the hot topics section of the forum right now where people debate. 

Also Im not debating with myself here. It takes two to tango.

Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 09, 2013, 03:36:08 pm
I have been drinking plenty of own well water with added celtic sea salt.. I crave it at times. There are days without, and the days when I can drink so many glasses of that! And I feel great  :)

The 1 year old boy of my sister almost ate all  ;) my French sea salt I had ordered from Orkos, he just loved it, plain as it is. I do think we feel if we need salt or not. When it tastes great, there must be a reason - when not, no way would I force take it because that would have a reason too why

you know what else tastes great? anything with msg in it. Your mind cant help thinking so.

also i remeber a few years back with my nephew we would always wonder where so many missing crayons went. One we caught him eating one and solved that mystery. Perhaps we should adopt crayons as part of a healthy diet?
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 09, 2013, 03:42:35 pm
Every single food ingested in excessive amount can kill you, even plain soft water!
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html#DANGERS (http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html#DANGERS)   :)
The whole article is also well worth reading:
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html (http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html)  8)
And if you want to laugh some more at gullible people and politicians (over 50 % of the population in modern industrialized countries  >:), check this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_hoax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_hoax)   ;D ROLF
Some wild berries and wild plants are a neat example of foods which can be beneficial in small amounts but deadly when the proper amount is exceeded.

FUnny how the only thing you name is water, something that I have repeatedly said is dangerous for human consumption on this forum. I wouldnt recommend anyone drink water partly due to the fact it can kill you...just like salt can.

perhaps you can point me to some of these berries which are fine to eat regularly as long as you dont have too much?

Seeing as iv said on this forum many times that water is dangerous id say this was not an adequate answer.

so please point me towards a raw food that can kill you if you eat too much.

Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Iguana on October 09, 2013, 04:53:51 pm
also i remeber a few years back with my nephew we would always wonder where so many missing crayons went. One we caught him eating one and solved that mystery. Perhaps we should adopt crayons as part of a healthy diet?
Are crayons found in nature? Do they grow on trees or on/in the ground? Should we adopt sweet tasting ethylene-glycol as part of a healthy diet?

FUnny how the only thing you name is water, something that I have repeatedly said is dangerous for human consumption on this forum. I wouldnt recommend anyone drink water partly due to the fact it can kill you...just like salt can.
Funny! Tell that to every living thing on Earth, to every one including the most remote hunther-gatherers.   

Quote
perhaps you can point me to some of these berries which are fine to eat regularly as long as you dont have too much?
Any one.

Quote
Seeing as iv said on this forum many times that water is dangerous id say this was not an adequate answer.
Should we go and live on a waterless planet, then?

(http://blog.discovering-india.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/sariska-animals-drinking-water.jpg)

Quote
so please point me towards a raw food that can kill you if you eat too much.
Any food, every food, raw or cooked, I told you. It’s becoming ridiculous and I won’t anymore waste time to answer you.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Inger on October 09, 2013, 06:56:01 pm
FUnny how the only thing you name is water, something that I have repeatedly said is dangerous for human consumption on this forum. I wouldnt recommend anyone drink water partly due to the fact it can kill you...just like salt can.

perhaps you can point me to some of these berries which are fine to eat regularly as long as you dont have too much?

Seeing as i`ve said on this forum many times that water is dangerous id say this was not an adequate answer.

so please point me towards a raw food that can kill you if you eat too much.



svrn... are you serious? I am starting to think you write weird stuff. I should be dead long ago drinking up to 4 liters  of water a day, but I am thriving. Animals drink water too...

That fluoridated and otherwise poisoned water is bad for us is clear, but pure clean spring water? Ridiculous.

So you drink seriously no water whatsoever? What do you consume for food in one day? No fluids? Fruit? Coconut water?
I need explanations.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 09, 2013, 08:44:52 pm
He drinks a tremendous amount of raw milk, Inger.

And Svrn, you just have no proof that unrefined, good-quality sea salt is fundamentally different than any other raw food or mineral supplement.  Some people do much better with it than others.

For instance, I used to eat a lot of Terramin clay for several years, because my body craved it.  However, I feel very little taste for it now, probably because I'm saturated with the minerals that it contains.  Some people might have taken it for longer than I did, or even NOT as long.  We all have different moments of taste change with different foods and minerals. This is because we all have different levels of need for the minerals and nutrients within specific foods and minerals.

I've seen cows escape from their fenced-in fields and drink ocean water directly from the ocean, many times. These cows are 100% grassfed, but they still crave ocean water.

Many wild animals seek out specific mineral deposits to eat, because their bodies crave those minerals.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Iguana on October 09, 2013, 09:23:55 pm
Yes, their instinct leads them to ingest salty stuff.

svrn drinks milk of domesticated animals ( I suppose he could never get milk from a wild one!  ;) ), but there's water in milk, as in almost all foods except in fully dehydrated ones. It makes no sense.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Inger on October 10, 2013, 12:03:40 am
Oh.. now I understand. He drinks lots of fluid.  ;)
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 10, 2013, 02:16:03 am
svrn... are you serious? I am starting to think you write weird stuff. I should be dead long ago drinking up to 4 liters  of water a day, but I am thriving. Animals drink water too...

That fluoridated and otherwise poisoned water is bad for us is clear, but pure clean spring water? Ridiculous.

So you drink seriously no water whatsoever? What do you consume for food in one day? No fluids? Fruit? Coconut water?
I need explanations.

I havent had water in months. WHenever I drink it I get sick. I do like to drink sparkling natural mineral water mixed with some apple cider vinegar lemon and honey occasionally and that seems to be fine for me in moderation. Drinking water with nothing else is always instant nausea for me though non sparkling mineral is especially nausea causing for me and I avoid it completely. This is experience is only with the highest quality water such as apollinaris including wild spring water I harvested myself. I havent had poor quality water in years.

 I drink a half gallon of milk a day and eat up to one small fruit per day and often no fruit. I also drink vegetable juices from my green star juicer.

My favorite thing is blood however and when I have that I drink a lot less milk and vegetable juice. Unfortunatly my government doesnt allow the sale of raw blood and theres no large market for it like with raw milk so I have no source.

It is also common knowledge that many carnivores (i dont know what percentage) et all of their required fluids from blood, I believe that humans are also designed to get all their fluids from blood.

Theres lots of info of zoologists being surprised to discover that the carnivores they study dont drink any water.

Im not sure where it says it on the website but I recall reading some things from the owens foundation where they studied a pride of lions and saw none of the lions drank any water in 4 years!

this is quite common.

http://www.owens-foundation.org/ (http://www.owens-foundation.org/)

i will spend time and make sure to dig up the relevant information if anyone finds the above link unsatisfactory although I know that this si the foundation that did that particular study.

This stuff im writing isnt as obscure as you think thousands of other followers of the primal diet also go months and years without drinking any water just like me


also we shoudl refrain from using logic such as "i drink 4 liters a day and im alive so it must be fine". As raw food dieters this is the type of thing we all must have heard a hundred times from sad eaters who claim their diet is good just because theyv been eating it for years and are still healthy.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 10, 2013, 02:28:50 am
Are crayons found in nature? Do they grow on trees or on/in the ground? Should we adopt sweet tasting ethylene-glycol as part of a healthy diet?
Funny! Tell that to every living thing on Earth, to every one including the most remote hunther-gatherers.   
Any one.
Should we go and live on a waterless planet, then?

(http://blog.discovering-india.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/sariska-animals-drinking-water.jpg)
Any food, every food, raw or cooked, I told you. It’s becoming ridiculous and I won’t anymore waste time to answer you.

so heres the list of "foods" iv compiled from this conversation for which I have been shown proof of someone dying right away from consuming too much of

-ocean water
-water

two things which i have ALWAYS maintained are poisonous, so thank you for confirming my previous assertion.

please show me just one case of a person dying from berries not known to be inherently poisonous or any other raw food for that manner. Iv personally gathered a few pounds of raw mulberries last summer and ate them in one day with no problem other than a fairly bad sugar crash after due to excitedly eating them in the forest before i could get my hands on raw fat to eat with them. I couldnt see myself eating any more than that as I was stuffed.

so please add a raw food to the list.



Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 10, 2013, 03:08:19 am
iguana, your comment about milking wild animals also comes from a place dogma regarding your view of paleo times.

There are many different views of what actually went on during paleo times including many doctors and scientists who say it is very likely that we couldnt have gotten out of paleo era without first domesticating animals

http://drcate.com/is-dairy-paleo-part-2-revising-history-with-new-perspectives-on-flocks-of-goats-femur-bones-and-feckless-nutritionism/ (http://drcate.com/is-dairy-paleo-part-2-revising-history-with-new-perspectives-on-flocks-of-goats-femur-bones-and-feckless-nutritionism/)

heres some info on that.

also something else to look into to open your mind is the lifestyle of siberian reindeer herders today such as the chukchi or nenets people who both drink lots of reindeer milk. Looking at how they manage their herd, one can easily see how this could have been done in paleo times as well, actually much moresimply than these people do it when done in a less harsh climate.

this probably warrants its own thread though, I will work on this in the next few and compile all my info on this topic for a more productive discussion on this.

stay tuned folks
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 10, 2013, 03:53:52 am
Well, svrn, for one thing, there are plenty of berries that are poisonous in large amounts, but safe in small amounts. There's also the fugu fish, which can be deadly poisonous if not prepared correctly. These are raw foods.

Also, first off, you start out by condemning salt, then salt AND seawater, and now salt, seawater, AND freshwater.  Not to be unfair, but your list keeps growing.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 10, 2013, 04:23:40 am
all three of those things were always on my list, just check my history of posts although this is the first time the topic of salt water came up.

which beries are totally safe in small amounts but poisonous in large amounts? I am not aware of any.

also the poisonous part of the fugu fish is poisonous in even the tiniest amount so does not fit the criteria of being a food since the tiniest portion is deadly, that part of the fish is not food.

food:noun
1.
any nourishing substance that is eaten, drunk, or otherwise taken into the body to sustain life, provide energy, promote growth, etc.

based on this definition the poisonous organ of the fugu is not food.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: ys on October 10, 2013, 04:36:27 am
your case is very specific and does not apply for most people.

most people feel just fine drinking a glass of water (5-6 oz).
i have absolutely no negative effects when drinking few gulps of sea water.
on the other hand, milk makes me feel like puking.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Dr. D on October 10, 2013, 06:49:12 am
I get negative effects from drinking anything other than water. Water also gives me many benefits. Without it, I desire to eat almost nonstop. I'm not kidding, I need about 2100 calories a day and I have gone eating double that for a week without water, all raw meats also. If I drink water after a meal I feel has a right proportion, then I feel satisfied. If I drink water again 2 hours later instead of eating, I get more energy and don't feel like eating another meal.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 10, 2013, 10:28:14 am
Interesting dr. d I get the same effect from water but view it as a negative.

Water kills my appetite and I start to become malnourished. I dont see why you view consuming less food as a positive thing. THe more food I can get into me the better I feel.

THe problem with water and why it makes you not crave food is because it dilutes your digestive enzymes and alkalinizes your gut. This is especially bad for meat eaters since we need an acid gut. When it is alkalinized we lose cravings for meat.

People often mistake the fact that they get thinner when drinking water as a sign of being healthy. This is a complete fallacy, there is nothing healthy about being so thin that you have six pack abs. This is all the result of our sick society pushing starvation culture on the masses in preparation for austerity.

I consume about 1500 to 1800 calories in milk with added cream per day alone. I consume about 3000-3500 calories per day total every day for about a year now. I feel so much healthier with layer of fat covering my whole body. No six pack here, I found that most six packers I meet are weaklings, all truly strong men have a belly of some sort, look at the strongman competitions.

What did you replace your water with when going off water?

Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 10, 2013, 10:33:45 am
Svrn, 13 years of reading raw foods forums, being a raw foodist, and having raw foodist friends has taught me that you can't generalize.  We are all different, sometimes VERY different...and as Iguana wisely points out, we even change over time. 

I would advise you to pay attention to our hard-won wisdom. :)
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 10, 2013, 10:37:03 am
...I found that most six packers I meet are weaklings, all truly strong men have a belly of some sort, look at the strongman competitions.

Now this is very true.  I won't argue with that.  However, there's more to physical exercise than simply lifting heavy weights.  It's unbalanced to only master that one area.  Think about it....the best powerlifters in the world don't have the kind of bodies that women find attractive.  Usually well-rounded athletes like decathloners and swimmers have the best bodies, in my opinion.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 10, 2013, 10:42:35 am
Svrn, 13 years of reading raw foods forums, being a raw foodist, and having raw foodist friends has taught me that you can't generalize.  We are all different, sometimes VERY different...and as Iguana wisely points out, we even change over time. 

I would advise you to pay attention to our hard-won wisdom. :)

I agree to an extent but I believe while different people ahve varying levels to each different toxin, a toxin is still a toxin and 99 percent of people are effected by the same toxins just all in varying degrees.

Humans are the only animal that we credit with such a wide range of acceptable diet. For all dogs or cats for instance, no amtter how different the breed looks all do best on the same foods. All animals in the same species do the best on the same foods no matter how different the different breeds seem.

Can you point towards animal for which this is not true? I believe this is where our answer for this question lies.

also my extensive study in cannabis genetics and having come across hundreds of different strains over my years smoking has shown although there is much variation between strains, all strains are basically the same on a core level and based on my research different strains of cannabis require different kinds of care in only slightly varying degrees.

Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: ys on October 10, 2013, 11:14:21 am
Quote
Can you point towards animal for which this is not true? I believe this is where our answer for this question lies.

pigs, brown bears, raccoons are all generalists.  they eat everything they can find, any animal dead or alive, insects, nuts, eggs, berries, plant matter, you name it.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Inger on October 10, 2013, 12:43:54 pm
I havent had water in months. WHenever I drink it I get sick. I do like to drink sparkling natural mineral water mixed with some apple cider vinegar lemon and honey occasionally and that seems to be fine for me in moderation. Drinking water with nothing else is always instant nausea for me though non sparkling mineral is especially nausea causing for me and I avoid it completely. This is experience is only with the highest quality water such as apollinaris including wild spring water I harvested myself. I havent had poor quality water in years.

 I drink a half gallon of milk a day and eat up to one small fruit per day and often no fruit. I also drink vegetable juices from my green star juicer.

My favorite thing is blood however and when I have that I drink a lot less milk and vegetable juice. Unfortunatly my government doesnt allow the sale of raw blood and theres no large market for it like with raw milk so I have no source.

It is also common knowledge that many carnivores (i dont know what percentage) et all of their required fluids from blood, I believe that humans are also designed to get all their fluids from blood.

Theres lots of info of zoologists being surprised to discover that the carnivores they study dont drink any water.

Im not sure where it says it on the website but I recall reading some things from the owens foundation where they studied a pride of lions and saw none of the lions drank any water in 4 years!

this is quite common.

http://www.owens-foundation.org/ (http://www.owens-foundation.org/)

i will spend time and make sure to dig up the relevant information if anyone finds the above link unsatisfactory although I know that this si the foundation that did that particular study.

This stuff im writing isnt as obscure as you think thousands of other followers of the primal diet also go months and years without drinking any water just like me


also we shoudl refrain from using logic such as "i drink 4 liters a day and im alive so it must be fine". As raw food dieters this is the type of thing we all must have heard a hundred times from sad eaters who claim their diet is good just because theyv been eating it for years and are still healthy.


Quote
Interesting dr. d I get the same effect from water but view it as a negative.

Water kills my appetite and I start to become malnourished. I dont see why you view consuming less food as a positive thing. THe more food I can get into me the better I feel.

THe problem with water and why it makes you not crave food is because it dilutes your digestive enzymes and alkalinizes your gut. This is especially bad for meat eaters since we need an acid gut. When it is alkalinized we lose cravings for meat.

People often mistake the fact that they get thinner when drinking water as a sign of being healthy. This is a complete fallacy, there is nothing healthy about being so thin that you have six pack abs. This is all the result of our sick society pushing starvation culture on the masses in preparation for austerity.

I consume about 1500 to 1800 calories in milk with added cream per day alone. I consume about 3000-3500 calories per day total every day for about a year now. I feel so much healthier with layer of fat covering my whole body. No six pack here, I found that most six packers I meet are weaklings, all truly strong men have a belly of some sort, look at the strongman competitions.


Interesting. Thank you for explaining. I never felt nauseated when drinking plain water. I think your diet looks like a Maasai diet..lol I think there is something that you need in it that makes it right for you at the moment. Maybe it has something special you need for healing. At least looks like you get lots of structured "water" (fluids) which is a good thing.  :)

I am curious to how long you will go on eating (drinking) that kind of a diet  ;) but I find it not impossible that it might be a good thing for you to do right now.
Keep us updated.

PS. I am totally with you on the fat layer thing. I think we need around 14 to 25 % body fat optimally. I never liked the scrawny look either, and I do not believe it is natural to be so over ripped. But I do think it is very healthy to have a good amount of muscle mass so when people lack those I always feel something is not right with their diet.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: jessica on October 10, 2013, 08:37:49 pm
srvn do you take breaks from smoking?  also where do you live? are you in CA?

I will probably always love salt more then other people, thanks to blowing out my adrenal glands pretty thoroughly, but I definitely prefer to munch away on seaweeds.  I don't see how eating these is any different then eating wild greens, they are also not processed, simply plucked from the sea and dried in the sun.  I don't see how this is a less authentic food source then "vegetable juice" which is basically drinking the mineral (salt) water from the veggies.  if its so important for you food sources to be so authentic trolloftheD, I don't understand how you let yourself slip and let a machine chew your vegetables for you, chew you own vegetables and if you don't have the time or patience you probably don't need to be eating so many(truly I don't care I am just giving you shit)
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: LePatron7 on October 10, 2013, 09:00:03 pm
i will spend time and make sure to dig up the relevant information if anyone finds the above link unsatisfactory although I know that this si the foundation that did that particular study.

Please do. I'd love a thread on the benefits of animal blood. I may even start asking for it from Miller's.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 11, 2013, 04:08:43 am
Please do. I'd love a thread on the benefits of animal blood. I may even start asking for it from Miller's.

ok, the current project I need to finish first is compiling the data on research point to dairy being a paleo food.

Once Im through with that ill work on putting together my carnivore/blood drinking research.

finding raw animal blood is extremely difficult, everyone iv asked was scared to sell. the only way I see getting it is to butcher animals yourself or find someone who raises animals and tell them u need raw blood for your sick dog.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 11, 2013, 04:15:54 am
srvn do you take breaks from smoking?  also where do you live? are you in CA?

I will probably always love salt more then other people, thanks to blowing out my adrenal glands pretty thoroughly, but I definitely prefer to munch away on seaweeds.  I don't see how eating these is any different then eating wild greens, they are also not processed, simply plucked from the sea and dried in the sun.  I don't see how this is a less authentic food source then "vegetable juice" which is basically drinking the mineral (salt) water from the veggies.  if its so important for you food sources to be so authentic trolloftheD, I don't understand how you let yourself slip and let a machine chew your vegetables for you, chew you own vegetables and if you don't have the time or patience you probably don't need to be eating so many(truly I don't care I am just giving you shit)

I dont know what you mean by authenticity but for me nature isnt so important. Whats important for me is that all my foods have enzymes vitamins and minerals all in completely undamaged form.  Since my greenstar juicer is able to extract the nutrients from vegetables without damaging them thats all that matters to me. Whether im being "paleo" is truly irrelevant to me as I dont trust mainstream history one bit. Sea salt or mined rock salt has no enzymes and no water, it is a completely dead food. One cannot say it is a living food in my opinion and this alone is what disqualifies it for my consumption. Green star extracted vegetable juice is a totally living food and for a food to be living is good enough for me.

The salts in vegetable juices just like the salts in blood or meat or tomatoes are organically bound to water and fully bioactive. One can not say this about sea salt or rock salt.

I live in the united states of America ;)
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 11, 2013, 04:20:51 am
pigs, brown bears, raccoons are all generalists.  they eat everything they can find, any animal dead or alive, insects, nuts, eggs, berries, plant matter, you name it.

I think you misunderstood my question.

Do all species of pigs, racoons and bears do equally well on the same foods? If so this means that they do not qualify as an answer to my question.

For example. people on here say some humans do well with salt and some people dont just because people are different. What im asking is for example, is there a species of bear that can eat tons of berries with no problem while another bear gets terrible reactions from the same berry?

do you understand my question now?
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 11, 2013, 04:24:44 am

Interesting. Thank you for explaining. I never felt nauseated when drinking plain water. I think your diet looks like a Maasai diet..lol I think there is something that you need in it that makes it right for you at the moment. Maybe it has something special you need for healing. At least looks like you get lots of structured "water" (fluids) which is a good thing.  :)

I am curious to how long you will go on eating (drinking) that kind of a diet  ;) but I find it not impossible that it might be a good thing for you to do right now.
Keep us updated.

PS. I am totally with you on the fat layer thing. I think we need around 14 to 25 % body fat optimally. I never liked the scrawny look either, and I do not believe it is natural to be so over ripped. But I do think it is very healthy to have a good amount of muscle mass so when people lack those I always feel something is not right with their diet.

Yes I will surely make sure to update everyone if I find I was wrong in something or change my diet and it works for me. I think its very important to admit when one is wrong.

In fact I have such an update in the works right now and will perhaps be admitting one of my errors in the next month or so once I am confident in the results of my current experiment. So stay tuned  :)
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: LePatron7 on October 11, 2013, 07:22:23 am
finding raw animal blood is extremely difficult, everyone iv asked was scared to sell. the only way I see getting it is to butcher animals yourself or find someone who raises animals and tell them u need raw blood for your sick dog.

I haven't asked yet, I plan to wait to see the info you post. But Miller's usually comes through with my strange requests. They didn't have beef fat or brain on their web site till I told them I wanted it. If I tell them I want GF beef blood they might be willing to provide it.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: ys on October 11, 2013, 08:45:12 am
Quote
Do all species of pigs, racoons and bears do equally well on the same foods? If so this means that they do not qualify as an answer to my question.

We'll never know because animals are not as diverse as people.
Billions of people consume salt regularly with no obvious or immediate effects while a few have such effects.

It is quiet possible for billions of bears(if there would be billion of bears) foraging on garbage just fine and a few who do not.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Dr. D on October 11, 2013, 11:20:11 am
Not only that, most wild bears grow up through babies into adults eating generally the same diet, so they don't get the sensitivities of an unnatural  diet to cause "deformities" compared to what would be healthy development. For example, I suspect most people with carb intolerances grew up eating poor quality carbs and therefore their body has trouble identifying it correctly, almost like an allergy. I know that's the case with me. I'm sure growing up on grains is why I have ADHD and why carbs bring back ADHD symptoms. I'm not saying I'll never eat carbs again, no, that's silly. I'm saying there is healing that needs to occur, if at all possible. However I digress and want to get back on the water/salt issue.

Interesting dr. d I get the same effect from water but view it as a negative.

Water kills my appetite and I start to become malnourished. I dont see why you view consuming less food as a positive thing. THe more food I can get into me the better I feel.

THe problem with water and why it makes you not crave food is because it dilutes your digestive enzymes and alkalinizes your gut. This is especially bad for meat eaters since we need an acid gut. When it is alkalinized we lose cravings for meat.

People often mistake the fact that they get thinner when drinking water as a sign of being healthy. This is a complete fallacy, there is nothing healthy about being so thin that you have six pack abs. This is all the result of our sick society pushing starvation culture on the masses in preparation for austerity.

I consume about 1500 to 1800 calories in milk with added cream per day alone. I consume about 3000-3500 calories per day total every day for about a year now. I feel so much healthier with layer of fat covering my whole body. No six pack here, I found that most six packers I meet are weaklings, all truly strong men have a belly of some sort, look at the strongman competitions.

What did you replace your water with when going off water?



Food is the only thing I could use to replace my water with. I don't eat many fruits and veggies nor do I have desire to juice them. I can't do dairy, even raw. Honey is about the only carb I do okay with right now, and even that makes me very thirsty.

This is a very tough issue because athleticism does not equate to health. It confuses many people and they are hard to separate. You see a strongman and you know he's athletic but they always end up with destroyed bodies by the time they are 40. Marathon runners are basically anorexic but can outperform any of us. Sprinters have the most rounded of athleticism but often consume pizza as a staple. So how do we differentiate between what they do and what we should or shouldn't do? I'm sure most drink lots of water. Exercise tends to promote thirst and hunger, and you "gotta stay hydrated."

I may get flack here for this but I really don't think a little excess fat is good. I think it's good to fluctuate weight. I don't think one should get to the point of anorexia and one should definitely work on functional muscle building over aesthetic muscle building. I would argue 25% bodyfat is too much. Sorry, that's just chubby. You lose so much athleticism at that bodyfat percentage, your joints become inflammed from the weight, your poor knees and heels!!! Max bodyfat imo should be about 17-18%. Most pictures of hunter gatherers I see are at or below that. Lowest bodyfat should occur early spring at hopefully no less than 9%. Abs show at 12%. You become quite vascular at 10% also. Function>appearance, but at optimal function, healthy appearance occurs. Look at Ido Portal. He eats a "paleo" type diet as far as I understand and have seen videos of him eating bugs, which seems to be much more than most of us do here. Low bodyfat does not instantly mean malnourished. Too many factors in play.

Drinking water: Gosh this one's a toughie. I respect your knowledge on it a lot, Svrn. I still can't see why the extra energy and decreased hunger is a bad thing. Not only that but clarity of mind. Eating more food instead of drinking water only worsens the symptoms. Shouldn't that simply be clear enough to say that it's obvious that drinking water should be the option. Feel bad, drink and feel better. Feel bad, eat and feel worse. Feel bad, drink raw milk and feel worse. Feel bad, eat fruit and take a nap and be out of commission for the day. I feel weaker when I eat more than I'm supposed to. I AM weaker. I've compared fasted workouts to after eating and after eating a lot, fasted I definitely have the most output and drive to hit failure. Also, if I can't drink water or milk, what am I SUPPOSED to drink? Blood seems like a reasonable and natural option were I a paleo hunter, though I simply don't have access. Maybe I can cut a deal with my beef supplier.

One thing I can think of for extra energy/decreased hunger is that coffee gives the same effect to people. However, it is the drug causing the unnatural push. The energy derived from water is a natural energy, not hyper, clear headed, and no effect on emotions.

Hopefully like the rest of us, I'm willing to learn and change and accept that it's not the correct or optimal way to live. I'm just going off of what I've done and the best route for me. Also, from what I've read about long living historical figures that drank a lot of water. (though Svrn may argue from a conspiracy POV that that history is falsified to promote a water drinking agenda. I'm not mocking him either, I think that may be a completely valid point).
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 11, 2013, 12:27:36 pm
You will find with a little bit of research that there are endless amounts of obviously unhealthy practices that lead to feeling of increased energy. Usually its the most unhealthy practices that seem to give people the most energy. (meth, coke, crack, coffee cigarettes etc all of these things also decrease hunger I hope you can see the connection). This is due to the adrenaline kicking in and is definitly no good although it usually feels good.

so i guess nobody came up with another animal on this planet with such diversity towards what is a poison for them. I did get plenty of excuses though.  :)
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 11, 2013, 12:30:03 pm
Billions of people consume salt regularly with no obvious or immediate effects while a few have such effects.

how many times have you heard the sad eaters say  "Billions of people consume cooked food regularly with no obvious or immediate effects while a few have such effects".

since I think all of us are irritated when we come across such flawed logic being used by sad eaters we should refrain from using it ourselves.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 11, 2013, 11:20:02 pm
how many times have you heard the sad eaters say  "Billions of people consume cooked food regularly with no obvious or immediate effects while a few have such effects".

since I think all of us are irritated when we come across such flawed logic being used by sad eaters we should refrain from using it ourselves.

Not all salts are cooked.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: ys on October 11, 2013, 11:33:48 pm
Quote
how many times have you heard the sad eaters say  "Billions of people consume cooked food regularly with no obvious or immediate effects while a few have such effects".

This is totally true.  Not a flawed logic, just a solid fact.
The effects of cooked food start showing up much much later in life usually in the various forms of chronic and degenerative conditions.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: TylerDurden on October 12, 2013, 12:39:14 am
This is totally true.  Not a flawed logic, just a solid fact.
The effects of cooked food start showing up much much later in life usually in the various forms of chronic and degenerative conditions.
For some people only. For others like me, the health problems derived from eating cooked foods  start very early in life and get gradually worse.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: ys on October 12, 2013, 01:19:03 am
Quote
For some people only. For others like me, the health problems derived from eating cooked foods  start very early in life and get gradually worse.

yes, me too.  but 99.9% of population does fine on cooked food for the first 40-50 years.  Probably earlier for SAD and later for ethnic diets. All my grandparents and other older relatives started getting chronic conditions around 60-70.  If you eliminate all environmental factors (pollution, pesticide, household chemicals) it is possible people would start getting chronic conditions much later.
My wife's grandma is 90, she already has dementia, but she was in good health up to 85.  All her life she ate cooked food.  There are many people in her village live healthy up to 75-85.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 12, 2013, 01:40:56 am
This is totally true.  Not a flawed logic, just a solid fact.
The effects of cooked food start showing up much much later in life usually in the various forms of chronic and degenerative conditions.

One can say that the effects of salt also start showing up much later in life for most people.

 EIther way I dont believe that too be true. I felt like I was almost a cripple at 19, childhood cancers, arthritis, and other such things are commonplace today, even those who eat cooked food thats all natural and dont use vaccines and drugs.

All of my friends who are in their late teens or 20s have some sort of health problem. I dont know where you get your information from but its totally wrong. ALL of the people around my age complain of some sort of health problem.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 12, 2013, 01:45:26 am
Not all salts are cooked.

when did I say all salts are cooked? another irrelevant comment from someone quoting me.

i really hope that people would refrain from quoting when their comment has nothing to do with the quote as those reading this with lower critical thinking skills may be harmed by believing that such responses were a valid counterpoint and thus basing their diets on such things.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: TylerDurden on October 12, 2013, 02:12:01 am
yes, me too.  but 99.9% of population does fine on cooked food for the first 40-50 years.  Probably earlier for SAD and later for ethnic diets. All my grandparents and other older relatives started getting chronic conditions around 60-70.  If you eliminate all environmental factors (pollution, pesticide, household chemicals) it is possible people would start getting chronic conditions much later.
My wife's grandma is 90, she already has dementia, but she was in good health up to 85.  All her life she ate cooked food.  There are many people in her village live healthy up to 75-85.

The above claim is not correct. You are forgetting that there are many  subtle ways in which cooked foods can harm the body. Infertility among the young, for example,  is extremely common, these days and many rawists report regaining fertility after going raw. Also, there are different perceptions as to health. Nowadays, people think it is quite normal for someone to have multiple allergies, diabetes and other childhood problems, which, imo, would not occur with a rawpalaeodiet from the womb onwards.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Dr. D on October 12, 2013, 02:40:02 am
I understand your connection and am more than willing to experiment, though I don't have access to grass-fed raw milk year round and don't really see an option for that, and I really don't see my farmer getting me blood frequently, but I asked and we will discuss it.

What am I supposed to drink?

Isn't water supposed to be the thing that makes life possible? It just seems like I'm asking for health issues without it. My throat gets dry, I can't think straight, my eyes are dry and burn.... do I call that detox? How is it that so many long living people seem to do two things: eat less and drink more water.
Title: Re: I love salt / water needs
Post by: Iguana on October 12, 2013, 03:02:01 am
Isn't water supposed to be the thing that makes life possible? It just seems like I'm asking for health issues without it. My throat gets dry, I can't think straight, my eyes are dry and burn.... do I call that detox? How is it that so many long living people seem to do two things: eat less and drink more water.
Sure, water and coconut water are almost the only paleo drinks. Blood perhaps also but it repulses me.

The year I started to eat raw paleo,  in hot summer months I drank up to 7 liters per day. I drank the same amount when blocked 3 days at the Irak-Kuwait border in July by 50°C with no A/C. I was on cooked food at the time; without drinking enough water I wouldn't be here. In such a climate, you have to drink until you urinate at least a bit, otherwise you die of dehydration.

I drank a lot of water during my 20 first years of raw paleo, but a few years ago this thirst almost vanished. Then I ate half of a liver from a cow which should have been entirely grass fed, but the butcher had certainly swapped that liver with the one of another cow. The same night I had a nightmare, something I normally never experience anymore. I must have been kind of poisoned, got some troubles and still I haven't yet fully recovered, being very thirsty again.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 12, 2013, 03:29:42 am
I understand your connection and am more than willing to experiment, though I don't have access to grass-fed raw milk year round and don't really see an option for that, and I really don't see my farmer getting me blood frequently, but I asked and we will discuss it.

What am I supposed to drink?

Isn't water supposed to be the thing that makes life possible? It just seems like I'm asking for health issues without it. My throat gets dry, I can't think straight, my eyes are dry and burn.... do I call that detox? How is it that so many long living people seem to do two things: eat less and drink more water.

i regularly go weeks and months without a drop of water. What you need to realize is that all raw food is at least 70 percent water no matter what it is. The water in raw foods is bioactive and is already bound and occupied and structured. Plain water oesnt have this and all water seeks this.  Water is a solvent just like all solvents, it wants to take and not give. Itis the olvent that rains down upon the rocks and breaks them down into minerals that plants can utilize.

I want you to do an experiment which will be very useful in explaining to you what water does inside the body. Take any mechanical device the that you need to oil regularly and use water instead of the lubricant. I think you will find that the machine will start to break down very quickly. The same happens in your body, you need oil and fats to lubricate the gears inside your body, water will destroy those gears and cause rust (it breaks it down just like it breaks down the minerals in the rocks).

Water wants to take things into itself, thats why tea works, thats why when you put anything in water, the water starts to take on the properties of whatever you put in there. It oes the same thing in your body, it takes it does not give. Thats why it dilutes your enzymes causes you to lose your hunger, this is not good.

Do you get those symptoms you described from raw milk? It seems like you dont have access to it. Yes I believe everyone who starts drinking raw milk has an initial detox period, detox is never fun but always necessary and you will always feel better after than you did before the detox started.

also a problem with people digesting milk is that they jump right in. You dont jump right into a 200 pound bench press on your first try you will surely hurt yourself. Does this mean the bench press is bad? No it means you havent used those muscles in your life so your body used your energy for other things. Now that your body sees it would be useful for it to build that muscle up it now does that. Theres nothing wrong with that.

You need to build up to drinking lots of milk. My protocol for beginning milk consumption is to start with no fresh milk. Only drink small amounts of kefir and eat small amounts of raw cheease and build up. Once you have no problem with this start introducing small amounts of fresh milk. Then build up from there. THis supplies your body with the proper bacteria for dairy digestion and helps your body start producing the proper enzymes. Other than just push through any detox you have and if theres still problems blend your milk with raw honey and let it sit till its warm and starts to thicken, very few people have problems drinking it this way.

Tell me or pm me where you live and ill find you a raw dairy source.

Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 12, 2013, 03:32:59 am
dairy is in fact "paleo" as we wouldnt be able to get out of paleo without it and ill present the proof in a seperate thread once I have time. The anti raw dairy lobby is quite strong and loves to push the dairy isnt paleo myth as well using studies with powdered milk and isolated nutrients to prove their lies. I wouldnt blame anyone for falling for their propoganda.

and lol at being repulsed by blood. u go around talking about how animals do this and that and how you need to be just like them yet theres isnt one carnivore for whom blood is not a staple of their diet.

I love blood and it makes me feel like superman. I only wish I could get it.

Title: Re: I love salt / blood
Post by: Iguana on October 12, 2013, 04:07:28 am
dairy is in fact "paleo" as we wouldnt be able to get out of paleo without it
I struggle to find out what this sentence could mean.

About blood as a normal drink for humans, I’m not sure. It seems humans are somewhere in-between pure carnivores and scavengers, the former feeding on fresh meat / blood and the latter preferring gamy, dry and high meat. Before having developed hunting techniques, our far ancestors certainly fed on the bone marrow and somewhat dry flesh left by carnivores. That could be why we generally prefer dry / high meat to fresh meat.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: van on October 12, 2013, 04:38:34 am
I agree with Iguana, again.  how bout that.   As scavengers 'we' didn't get much of the blood.  And to think that a hunting party would be able or willing to collect the blood of a killed animal ( most animals bleed to death as they try to get away from being shot/arrow/spear..) for the rest of the tribe back 'home'.  Seems a little far fetched that there would be enough to go around so that water would not be needed.  SVRN I suspect you're very excited about your milk feeding and it does well for you and you're totally sold and not needing water.  I didn't need much when I drank a half gallon a day of my goat's milk.  But let's see what happens in some time.  Give it five years, ten years ( as I did ) and them may I suggest you tell people not to drink water and to substitute with blood and milk.     

   And as to the 'understanding' of what water is, structured, organic....   I can promise you, there are as many different opinions as any hot topic. And one's position usually has to do with what wants to believe in the moment or what aligns with one's current diet choices and believes.
 
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: TylerDurden on October 12, 2013, 04:44:44 am
Svrn, the idiotic notion that dairy is "palaeo" is overdoing it.  Granted, this is the hot topics forum, but, even so, when one says something as outrageously wrong as this one needs to back it up with lots of scientific data etc. And expect to be ridiculed with tons of  scientific evidence debunking your claims.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 12, 2013, 04:58:32 am
when did I say all salts are cooked? another irrelevant comment from someone quoting me.

i really hope that people would refrain from quoting when their comment has nothing to do with the quote as those reading this with lower critical thinking skills may be harmed by believing that such responses were a valid counterpoint and thus basing their diets on such things.

You compared salt to cooked food, but they are not equivalent.  Salt is a naturally-occurring substance, and many animals are attracted to natural aboveground mineral deposits, including "salt licks".   That means that it is quite possible for a living thing to crave salt as part of its natural instinct. Salt creates a very strong taste change, like many raw foods do.  You're not making a strong case.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Dr. D on October 12, 2013, 05:24:36 am
I'm from north central Washington. Near chelan, WA.

What's that type of argument called, that we have going on here? Its not circular, but rather both sides can be right based on what their perspective sees. Arguing if the glass is half full or half empty when it is very close to the same.

Putting dairy, salt, water, and other things into your diet may cause detox, or your body may be adapting to a less preferred fuel. Its tough to argue because some come out the other end feeling better and some never do, like with ZC and proponents for that lifestyle. They would argue you're detoxing sugar whereas the other side argues your body is trying to adapt to something else that remains to be proven more or less optimal.

Isn't there a term for that type of argument?
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: jessica on October 12, 2013, 05:57:06 am
pointless? rhetorical?
Title: Re: I love salt / blood
Post by: svrn on October 12, 2013, 12:54:34 pm
I struggle to find out what this sentence could mean.

About blood as a normal drink for humans, I’m not sure. It seems humans are somewhere in-between pure carnivores and scavengers, the former feeding on fresh meat / blood and the latter preferring gamy, dry and high meat. Before having developed hunting techniques, our far ancestors certainly fed on the bone marrow and somewhat dry flesh left by carnivores. That could be why we generally prefer dry / high meat to fresh meat.

speak for yourself, I prefer blood.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 12, 2013, 12:57:43 pm
Svrn, the idiotic notion that dairy is "palaeo" is overdoing it.  Granted, this is the hot topics forum, but, even so, when one says something as outrageously wrong as this one needs to back it up with lots of scientific data etc. And expect to be ridiculed with tons of  scientific evidence debunking your claims.
I have evidence, I just dont want to waste time posting it all here when im going to make a seperate thread for it anyway. Iv posted some data about it before if u want to find it but ill do a more in depth posting later.
Title: Re: I love salt / blood
Post by: svrn on October 12, 2013, 01:05:37 pm
I struggle to find out what this sentence could mean.

About blood as a normal drink for humans, I’m not sure. It seems humans are somewhere in-between pure carnivores and scavengers, the former feeding on fresh meat / blood and the latter preferring gamy, dry and high meat. Before having developed hunting techniques, our far ancestors certainly fed on the bone marrow and somewhat dry flesh left by carnivores. That could be why we generally prefer dry / high meat to fresh meat.

we are carnivores. Eating anything more than one fruit a day is always damaging to me, I feel better with none at all actually and have been having my smoothies without fruit at all for the past few months and am feeling much better.

I dont understand why you think animals can get enough blood from from their prey but humans cant. I just dont see the logic in that.

I suppose you havent heard the stories about amerinds chasing down game on foot and killing it with a knife. Someone on this forum i dont remember who (im pretty sure it was sully) even related a story about choking a deer to death. I dont understand how that is any different from any other carnivore killing an animal.

also the new age notion of both sides are right is complete religious hogwash. One side is definitly right. We do not get to choose reality.

also the concept of availability meaning we ate something is also bullshit. I know of one tribe in th phillipines that is surrounded by fruit but eats nothing but raw fish and raw coconut, thats it. For the masaai fruit was available but until the drought occured it was completely illegal in their tribe to eat fruit. They knew of the dangers.

either way im completely sure that the notion that blood isnt human food is rubbish. Seems like you are just making excuses for your inability to drink blood. DOnt you slaughter your own animals? I know sabertooth gets plenty of blood from the animals he kills.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 13, 2013, 10:06:45 am
You have much learning to do, svrn.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 13, 2013, 01:20:42 pm
than you for such a wise comment. I have learned so much from it.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Ioanna on October 14, 2013, 04:04:01 am
svrn, omg, why are you so angry??? as exciting as a conversation re salt can be...  ;)

i used to do open water swimming. i've swallowed plenty of salt water accidentally. i didn't like it. i didn't get sick. my dog has come with me to the beach and she has had some of the water to drink. i don't think she like it either. she didn't get sick.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 04:23:58 am
at makes you think I am angry? That I address every single point made against me and attempt to do it in a precise manner that leaves nothing unanswered?

if you didnt get sick it means you didnt swallow enough of the poison.

am I angry because nobody can correctly answer these two questions which I have been posing for pages thus making me constantly have to repeat myself?

1) what other raw food causes death when you ingest too much of it. (the only answers I seem to have so far are water which I have always said is dangerous and salt water which I have always said is dangerous, and berries of which nobody can point me to specific food berry which has every killed someone)

2)what other animal shows the diversity towards what is and is not a harmful food for that animal that people on here claim humans have. (the only answer I have recieved for this is animals such as bears and pigs which are complete omnivores meaning all pigs no matter what breed can eat anything, there is not one pig that can eat x food while another cant in the manner that some claim certain humans are harmed by salt and some are not.)

no animal has this type of diversity and humans are no exception. please point me to such an animal if not.

this means I want to see an animal for which one breed eats x food and benefits from it while another breed eats x food and is harmed by it. this is a very specific question and neither bears nor pigs nor racoons fit that description
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: TylerDurden on October 14, 2013, 04:59:24 am
Bears are not all  complete omnivores, polar bears are carnivores. Plus, depending on the species of bear, there is usually a preference for one class of food.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 05:24:19 am
POW!  another argument destroyed...i think im on a killing spree

(http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/Users/Alex/Downloads/bear eating berries.jpg)
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: Iguana on October 14, 2013, 05:33:41 am
at makes you think I am angry? That I address every single point made against me and attempt to do it in a precise manner that leaves nothing unanswered?

if you didnt get sick it means you didnt swallow enough of the poison.

am I angry because nobody can correctly answer these two questions which I have been posing for pages thus making me constantly have to repeat myself?

1) what other raw food causes death when you ingest too much of it. (the only answers I seem to have so far are water which I have always said is dangerous and salt water which I have always said is dangerous, and berries of which nobody can point me to specific food berry which has every killed someone)
I already answered you that everything eaten in excess become noxious. The dose makes the poison: http://www.amazon.com/The-Dose-Makes-Poison-Plain-Language/dp/0470381124 (http://www.amazon.com/The-Dose-Makes-Poison-Plain-Language/dp/0470381124) It’s written bigger on the cover of that book, so perhaps you could finally grab it?

It’s boring to have a flood of posts of guys like you, with some months or at best a few years of experience with their own kind of raw food nutrition — and moreover on themselves alone — giving authoritative and categorical  advices based on their current beliefs and their personal, specific cases. People deprived of a scientific background don’t put things into perspective. They think they know it all and hold the ultimate, unquestionable truth, that they are cleverer than the others including pioneers-scientists and meticulous researchers like Burger, Eaton, Cordain, etc. Instead of being willing to learn, they ignore or even scoff at the thorough research and experience of those having been practicing raw paleo nutrition for several decades, sometimes with entire families and plenty others around them.

Some humility as well as a space devoted to doubts and questioning is an inestimable asset you don’t seem to have..

I told you, I won’t respond anymore to your posts and this is the last time I do. It’s a waste of time because you’ve made up your mind and no fact can lead you to reconsider your weird stances.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 05:37:58 am
lol, so the list of raw foods that people have died from remains

1)salt water
2)water

the two things iv always said are dangerous

this is so funny to me  ;D
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: TylerDurden on October 14, 2013, 05:44:56 am
POW!  another argument destroyed...i think im on a killing spree

(http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/Users/Alex/Downloads/bear eating berries.jpg)
Not really. Polar bears are classed as carnivores re digestive system and everything else. PLant-eaters are noted for eating insects along with their plants but that does not make them omnivores, so carnivores eating the occasional plant food like cats eating grass or polar bears chewing the occasional leaf, are not omnivores either.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 05:49:43 am
i shall repeat my question which you purport to be answering simply to reiterate for the readers not as an attempt to get into another circular argument

Quote
this means I want to see an animal for which one breed eats x food and benefits from it while another breed eats x food and is harmed by it.

do you as the reader believe that the polar bear example fits this criteria? I will not go back and forth on this particular issue anymore. Feel free to propose another example if youd like and I will respond to that.

It would be best to leave it for the reader to decide at this point.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 06:26:10 am
and if my stances are weird iguana then yours are definitly wierd seeing as there are more primal dieters than instinctos.

just use google, you will find your views are far more obscure than mine.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: ys on October 14, 2013, 07:10:23 am
Quote
lol, so the list of raw foods that people have died from remains

1)salt water
2)water

the two things iv always said are dangerous

you have not proved a single point that water in moderate amounts is hazardous to human health.
too much oxygen is poisonous too, that does not mean you should give up oxygen completely.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 07:39:05 am
first of all oxygen is not a food

has anyone ever died from breathing too much clean air?

can you show me one case of someone dying from drinking too much raw milk in one session?

i can show many cases of people dying from drinking too much water or salt water in one session.
do you want me to start posting these cases? it would be very easy.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: TylerDurden on October 14, 2013, 08:03:38 am
first of all oxygen is not a food

has anyone ever died from breathing too much clean air?

can you show me one case of someone dying from drinking too much raw milk in one session?

i can show many cases of people dying from drinking too much water or salt water in one session.
do you want me to start posting these cases? it would be very easy.
Actually, I came pretty close to dying after drinking too much milk. It was around the time I was still consuming lots of raw dairy. I had lost all taste for raw meats and just guzzled the foul dairy and got various nasty side-effects, heart-trouble etc. etc.,  which would have hospitalised me if I had continued.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 08:40:30 am
once again, more excuses with no proof of someone dying from just one session of drinking too much milk.

shall I start pulling up examples of someone dying from just one session of drinking salt water or water so you can see what real proof looks like?
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 14, 2013, 11:22:27 am
than you for such a wise comment. I have learned so much from it.

Dude, it was so generalized because you have so many areas to learn about regarding this diet. I've seen all sorts of crazy things work to heal people.  High dairy, zero dairy, high salt, no salt, high fruit, no fruit, all meat, almost-zero meat, etc., etc..

I've probably read close to half a million posts on various nutrition forums over the last 14 years. People vary tremendously in what works for them. Even one single person (as Iguana wisely points out) can change over time.  This is especially true when you're eating a large amount of a specific food every day for many months/years. I cycle on/off various foods pretty regularly. I imagine you will eventually have to cycle off dairy for a while, for instance.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: svrn on October 14, 2013, 11:32:31 am
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-511475/Man-35-drank-death-consuming-water.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-511475/Man-35-drank-death-consuming-water.html)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11625463 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11625463)

Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: cherimoya_kid on October 14, 2013, 12:11:18 pm
Yes, water in large amounts can be toxic.  There was a sad case near where I live about 25 years ago where a mother forced her young son to drink over a gallon of water very quickly, as a punishment.  It killed him.

That doesn't mean all the animals you can see drinking from rivers/streams in nature shows are harming themselves.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: ys on October 14, 2013, 10:18:17 pm
Quote
i can show many cases of people dying from drinking too much water or salt water in one session.

That's not what we are talking about.  Too much of anything is not a good thing.
We are talking about your nonsense claim that water in moderate amount is harmful.

Also, there is no proof that few gulps of sea water is harmful as well. I've done it so many times and it felt great.  I'm not claiming that everyone should do it.  It just works for me.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: political atheist on July 17, 2016, 03:20:02 pm
IM so sick of all this talk on here of people drinking water from the ocean. I dont want to call anyone a liar but the fact that I got so sick for weeks after one gulp combined with the fact that any source iv ever found on the  confirms my experience that drinking the ocean is incredibly dangerous i must call bullshit on iguana and van saying they drank ocean water and were fine.

Please show me some evidence other than your anecdotal evidence which I do not believe.

Iv never come across anyone who has said anything other than drinking salt water is highly dangerous.

http://www.marineinsight.com/misc/marine-safety/10-effects-of-drinking-salt-water-of-the-sea/ (http://www.marineinsight.com/misc/marine-safety/10-effects-of-drinking-salt-water-of-the-sea/)

Theres just one article listing the side effects of drinking ocean. I had most of these when I had just one gulp.

Sorry guys but I reiterate, im calling bullshit on this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXeORVIoU9Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXeORVIoU9Q)
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: raw-al on July 17, 2016, 11:01:35 pm
Salt is a hot topic for sure as this is a 2012 thread.

I have had a change of heart. I was listening to someone talking about drinking lots of water, so I decided to try it. Normally I cannot stand the stuff and also cannot handle salt at all, but I decided to try 1 to 2 litres in the AM with about a teaspoon of Himalayan pink salt in it.

Dr Batmangalich https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xweziIaUMo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xweziIaUMo)

BTW I have not watched this video, but have read his book entitled "Your Body's Many cries For Water". He says to take the salt first before you drink the water as it absorbs the water better, but I simply cannot throw down that much salt and chase it with water.

I have found that drinking the water in the AM before having anything to eat seems to be a good idea as my urine is pretty much clear and surprisingly I do not seem to urinate for awhile after drinking the water which makes me postulate that the water is not just rushing through me.

I haven't tried all of the other varieties of salt, but definitely would not use commercially available rock salt.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: eveheart on July 18, 2016, 12:00:42 am
I certainly don't expect to reach a consensus on salt because salt's role in the body is so complex. Even if we eliminate "junk" salt that has been iodized and anti-caked, even if we control for mined salt vs evaporated salt, even if we consider the rest of the diet and lifestyle, salt can either enhance or weaken biochemical processes in ways that differ for each body's landscape.

Whether we are starting new "salt" threads or dredging up old ones, the information is useless unless each person looks at their own body's salt cycle: ingested salt, circulating salt, and excreted salt. For example, too little circulating salt is often the cause of too little hydrochloric acid in the stomach, yet people often take hydrochloric acid supplements without correcting the salt deficiency. 

I had an interesting experience during a hospitalization a few years ago, when the on-call doctor diagnosed me with hyponatremia (low level of salt in the blood) at the end of a week of hospital food. The medical treatment she prescribed was to limit water intake to slow down excreted salt. (LOL, get the irony here? Instead of giving me more ingested salt, they tried to slow down the excretion of salt.)

I am fussy about salt. I use it in a dietary way, not in a culinary (flavor enhancer) way. In some salty foods, the only significant flavoring is salt - as in chips or the little flavoring packets that come with ramen noodles. I like mined salt, evaporated salt, and black salt. I buy salt in a Korean market that carries an entire aisle of various kinds of salt. I believe that good salt helps my digestion function perfectly, helps me sleep better, and puts me in a better mood.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: political atheist on July 18, 2016, 12:21:31 am
what about the watercure guy, dr ''batman''?
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: raw-al on July 18, 2016, 12:43:52 am
what about the watercure guy, dr ''batman''?
Hi PA,
That is the guy that I linked to in my post. His actual name is Dr Batmangelidj. There are a few YTs on/with him.

Basically I think that what he says is correct, simply because most PPL eat such a gawd-awful diet nowadays that for the most part, just upping their water intake and throwing some good quality salt in to remineralize and increase actual absorbtion will help clean out the crap they have been building up for years. That in itself will clear out the vast majority of illnesses. The missing part is just to re-nutritionalize ;D the body.

Salt's other purpose which most PPL miss is that it is important for motivating digestion. Hydochloric acid or the building block of stoamch acid is created with salt.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: the6step on March 31, 2019, 10:09:40 am
This svrn guy saying salt is bad, never really elaborated on why the salty liquer inside oysters, is different from salt. They're both sodium, and both "salty". Also: "blood" is salty people. Guess what? We probably didn't "cleanly" drain the blood from our prey before eating the meat. There was blood mixed in, acting as a "salt topping" of sorts. I know I'm reviving an old thread but... I'm surprised no one touched on this.
Title: Re: I love salt
Post by: TylerDurden on March 31, 2019, 01:21:52 pm
This svrn guy saying salt is bad, never really elaborated on why the salty liquer inside oysters, is different from salt. They're both sodium, and both "salty". Also: "blood" is salty people. Guess what? We probably didn't "cleanly" drain the blood from our prey before eating the meat. There was blood mixed in, acting as a "salt topping" of sorts. I know I'm reviving an old thread but... I'm surprised no one touched on this.
I have had no problem in the past consuming lots of raw blood from raw wild game carcasses(vacuum-packed) which had lots of natural salts in the stuff. On the other hand, I get a nasty toxic reaction in my mouth if I consume any more than tiny amounts of salt on rare occasions, and feel unwell afterwards. Table-salt/sea-salt is something entirely different from natural salts in raw blood, from my own experience.