Author Topic: I love salt  (Read 37101 times)

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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #75 on: October 10, 2013, 10:33:45 am »
Svrn, 13 years of reading raw foods forums, being a raw foodist, and having raw foodist friends has taught me that you can't generalize.  We are all different, sometimes VERY different...and as Iguana wisely points out, we even change over time. 

I would advise you to pay attention to our hard-won wisdom. :)

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #76 on: October 10, 2013, 10:37:03 am »
...I found that most six packers I meet are weaklings, all truly strong men have a belly of some sort, look at the strongman competitions.

Now this is very true.  I won't argue with that.  However, there's more to physical exercise than simply lifting heavy weights.  It's unbalanced to only master that one area.  Think about it....the best powerlifters in the world don't have the kind of bodies that women find attractive.  Usually well-rounded athletes like decathloners and swimmers have the best bodies, in my opinion.

Offline svrn

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #77 on: October 10, 2013, 10:42:35 am »
Svrn, 13 years of reading raw foods forums, being a raw foodist, and having raw foodist friends has taught me that you can't generalize.  We are all different, sometimes VERY different...and as Iguana wisely points out, we even change over time. 

I would advise you to pay attention to our hard-won wisdom. :)

I agree to an extent but I believe while different people ahve varying levels to each different toxin, a toxin is still a toxin and 99 percent of people are effected by the same toxins just all in varying degrees.

Humans are the only animal that we credit with such a wide range of acceptable diet. For all dogs or cats for instance, no amtter how different the breed looks all do best on the same foods. All animals in the same species do the best on the same foods no matter how different the different breeds seem.

Can you point towards animal for which this is not true? I believe this is where our answer for this question lies.

also my extensive study in cannabis genetics and having come across hundreds of different strains over my years smoking has shown although there is much variation between strains, all strains are basically the same on a core level and based on my research different strains of cannabis require different kinds of care in only slightly varying degrees.

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Offline ys

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #78 on: October 10, 2013, 11:14:21 am »
Quote
Can you point towards animal for which this is not true? I believe this is where our answer for this question lies.

pigs, brown bears, raccoons are all generalists.  they eat everything they can find, any animal dead or alive, insects, nuts, eggs, berries, plant matter, you name it.

Offline Inger

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #79 on: October 10, 2013, 12:43:54 pm »
I havent had water in months. WHenever I drink it I get sick. I do like to drink sparkling natural mineral water mixed with some apple cider vinegar lemon and honey occasionally and that seems to be fine for me in moderation. Drinking water with nothing else is always instant nausea for me though non sparkling mineral is especially nausea causing for me and I avoid it completely. This is experience is only with the highest quality water such as apollinaris including wild spring water I harvested myself. I havent had poor quality water in years.

 I drink a half gallon of milk a day and eat up to one small fruit per day and often no fruit. I also drink vegetable juices from my green star juicer.

My favorite thing is blood however and when I have that I drink a lot less milk and vegetable juice. Unfortunatly my government doesnt allow the sale of raw blood and theres no large market for it like with raw milk so I have no source.

It is also common knowledge that many carnivores (i dont know what percentage) et all of their required fluids from blood, I believe that humans are also designed to get all their fluids from blood.

Theres lots of info of zoologists being surprised to discover that the carnivores they study dont drink any water.

Im not sure where it says it on the website but I recall reading some things from the owens foundation where they studied a pride of lions and saw none of the lions drank any water in 4 years!

this is quite common.

http://www.owens-foundation.org/

i will spend time and make sure to dig up the relevant information if anyone finds the above link unsatisfactory although I know that this si the foundation that did that particular study.

This stuff im writing isnt as obscure as you think thousands of other followers of the primal diet also go months and years without drinking any water just like me


also we shoudl refrain from using logic such as "i drink 4 liters a day and im alive so it must be fine". As raw food dieters this is the type of thing we all must have heard a hundred times from sad eaters who claim their diet is good just because theyv been eating it for years and are still healthy.


Quote
Interesting dr. d I get the same effect from water but view it as a negative.

Water kills my appetite and I start to become malnourished. I dont see why you view consuming less food as a positive thing. THe more food I can get into me the better I feel.

THe problem with water and why it makes you not crave food is because it dilutes your digestive enzymes and alkalinizes your gut. This is especially bad for meat eaters since we need an acid gut. When it is alkalinized we lose cravings for meat.

People often mistake the fact that they get thinner when drinking water as a sign of being healthy. This is a complete fallacy, there is nothing healthy about being so thin that you have six pack abs. This is all the result of our sick society pushing starvation culture on the masses in preparation for austerity.

I consume about 1500 to 1800 calories in milk with added cream per day alone. I consume about 3000-3500 calories per day total every day for about a year now. I feel so much healthier with layer of fat covering my whole body. No six pack here, I found that most six packers I meet are weaklings, all truly strong men have a belly of some sort, look at the strongman competitions.


Interesting. Thank you for explaining. I never felt nauseated when drinking plain water. I think your diet looks like a Maasai diet..lol I think there is something that you need in it that makes it right for you at the moment. Maybe it has something special you need for healing. At least looks like you get lots of structured "water" (fluids) which is a good thing.  :)

I am curious to how long you will go on eating (drinking) that kind of a diet  ;) but I find it not impossible that it might be a good thing for you to do right now.
Keep us updated.

PS. I am totally with you on the fat layer thing. I think we need around 14 to 25 % body fat optimally. I never liked the scrawny look either, and I do not believe it is natural to be so over ripped. But I do think it is very healthy to have a good amount of muscle mass so when people lack those I always feel something is not right with their diet.

Offline jessica

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #80 on: October 10, 2013, 08:37:49 pm »
srvn do you take breaks from smoking?  also where do you live? are you in CA?

I will probably always love salt more then other people, thanks to blowing out my adrenal glands pretty thoroughly, but I definitely prefer to munch away on seaweeds.  I don't see how eating these is any different then eating wild greens, they are also not processed, simply plucked from the sea and dried in the sun.  I don't see how this is a less authentic food source then "vegetable juice" which is basically drinking the mineral (salt) water from the veggies.  if its so important for you food sources to be so authentic trolloftheD, I don't understand how you let yourself slip and let a machine chew your vegetables for you, chew you own vegetables and if you don't have the time or patience you probably don't need to be eating so many(truly I don't care I am just giving you shit)

Offline LePatron7

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #81 on: October 10, 2013, 09:00:03 pm »
i will spend time and make sure to dig up the relevant information if anyone finds the above link unsatisfactory although I know that this si the foundation that did that particular study.

Please do. I'd love a thread on the benefits of animal blood. I may even start asking for it from Miller's.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail.

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Offline svrn

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #82 on: October 11, 2013, 04:08:43 am »
Please do. I'd love a thread on the benefits of animal blood. I may even start asking for it from Miller's.

ok, the current project I need to finish first is compiling the data on research point to dairy being a paleo food.

Once Im through with that ill work on putting together my carnivore/blood drinking research.

finding raw animal blood is extremely difficult, everyone iv asked was scared to sell. the only way I see getting it is to butcher animals yourself or find someone who raises animals and tell them u need raw blood for your sick dog.
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Offline svrn

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #83 on: October 11, 2013, 04:15:54 am »
srvn do you take breaks from smoking?  also where do you live? are you in CA?

I will probably always love salt more then other people, thanks to blowing out my adrenal glands pretty thoroughly, but I definitely prefer to munch away on seaweeds.  I don't see how eating these is any different then eating wild greens, they are also not processed, simply plucked from the sea and dried in the sun.  I don't see how this is a less authentic food source then "vegetable juice" which is basically drinking the mineral (salt) water from the veggies.  if its so important for you food sources to be so authentic trolloftheD, I don't understand how you let yourself slip and let a machine chew your vegetables for you, chew you own vegetables and if you don't have the time or patience you probably don't need to be eating so many(truly I don't care I am just giving you shit)

I dont know what you mean by authenticity but for me nature isnt so important. Whats important for me is that all my foods have enzymes vitamins and minerals all in completely undamaged form.  Since my greenstar juicer is able to extract the nutrients from vegetables without damaging them thats all that matters to me. Whether im being "paleo" is truly irrelevant to me as I dont trust mainstream history one bit. Sea salt or mined rock salt has no enzymes and no water, it is a completely dead food. One cannot say it is a living food in my opinion and this alone is what disqualifies it for my consumption. Green star extracted vegetable juice is a totally living food and for a food to be living is good enough for me.

The salts in vegetable juices just like the salts in blood or meat or tomatoes are organically bound to water and fully bioactive. One can not say this about sea salt or rock salt.

I live in the united states of America ;)
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 04:22:27 am by svrn »
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Offline svrn

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #84 on: October 11, 2013, 04:20:51 am »
pigs, brown bears, raccoons are all generalists.  they eat everything they can find, any animal dead or alive, insects, nuts, eggs, berries, plant matter, you name it.

I think you misunderstood my question.

Do all species of pigs, racoons and bears do equally well on the same foods? If so this means that they do not qualify as an answer to my question.

For example. people on here say some humans do well with salt and some people dont just because people are different. What im asking is for example, is there a species of bear that can eat tons of berries with no problem while another bear gets terrible reactions from the same berry?

do you understand my question now?
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Offline svrn

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #85 on: October 11, 2013, 04:24:44 am »

Interesting. Thank you for explaining. I never felt nauseated when drinking plain water. I think your diet looks like a Maasai diet..lol I think there is something that you need in it that makes it right for you at the moment. Maybe it has something special you need for healing. At least looks like you get lots of structured "water" (fluids) which is a good thing.  :)

I am curious to how long you will go on eating (drinking) that kind of a diet  ;) but I find it not impossible that it might be a good thing for you to do right now.
Keep us updated.

PS. I am totally with you on the fat layer thing. I think we need around 14 to 25 % body fat optimally. I never liked the scrawny look either, and I do not believe it is natural to be so over ripped. But I do think it is very healthy to have a good amount of muscle mass so when people lack those I always feel something is not right with their diet.

Yes I will surely make sure to update everyone if I find I was wrong in something or change my diet and it works for me. I think its very important to admit when one is wrong.

In fact I have such an update in the works right now and will perhaps be admitting one of my errors in the next month or so once I am confident in the results of my current experiment. So stay tuned  :)
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Offline LePatron7

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #86 on: October 11, 2013, 07:22:23 am »
finding raw animal blood is extremely difficult, everyone iv asked was scared to sell. the only way I see getting it is to butcher animals yourself or find someone who raises animals and tell them u need raw blood for your sick dog.

I haven't asked yet, I plan to wait to see the info you post. But Miller's usually comes through with my strange requests. They didn't have beef fat or brain on their web site till I told them I wanted it. If I tell them I want GF beef blood they might be willing to provide it.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail.

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Offline ys

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #87 on: October 11, 2013, 08:45:12 am »
Quote
Do all species of pigs, racoons and bears do equally well on the same foods? If so this means that they do not qualify as an answer to my question.

We'll never know because animals are not as diverse as people.
Billions of people consume salt regularly with no obvious or immediate effects while a few have such effects.

It is quiet possible for billions of bears(if there would be billion of bears) foraging on garbage just fine and a few who do not.

Offline Dr. D

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #88 on: October 11, 2013, 11:20:11 am »
Not only that, most wild bears grow up through babies into adults eating generally the same diet, so they don't get the sensitivities of an unnatural  diet to cause "deformities" compared to what would be healthy development. For example, I suspect most people with carb intolerances grew up eating poor quality carbs and therefore their body has trouble identifying it correctly, almost like an allergy. I know that's the case with me. I'm sure growing up on grains is why I have ADHD and why carbs bring back ADHD symptoms. I'm not saying I'll never eat carbs again, no, that's silly. I'm saying there is healing that needs to occur, if at all possible. However I digress and want to get back on the water/salt issue.

Interesting dr. d I get the same effect from water but view it as a negative.

Water kills my appetite and I start to become malnourished. I dont see why you view consuming less food as a positive thing. THe more food I can get into me the better I feel.

THe problem with water and why it makes you not crave food is because it dilutes your digestive enzymes and alkalinizes your gut. This is especially bad for meat eaters since we need an acid gut. When it is alkalinized we lose cravings for meat.

People often mistake the fact that they get thinner when drinking water as a sign of being healthy. This is a complete fallacy, there is nothing healthy about being so thin that you have six pack abs. This is all the result of our sick society pushing starvation culture on the masses in preparation for austerity.

I consume about 1500 to 1800 calories in milk with added cream per day alone. I consume about 3000-3500 calories per day total every day for about a year now. I feel so much healthier with layer of fat covering my whole body. No six pack here, I found that most six packers I meet are weaklings, all truly strong men have a belly of some sort, look at the strongman competitions.

What did you replace your water with when going off water?



Food is the only thing I could use to replace my water with. I don't eat many fruits and veggies nor do I have desire to juice them. I can't do dairy, even raw. Honey is about the only carb I do okay with right now, and even that makes me very thirsty.

This is a very tough issue because athleticism does not equate to health. It confuses many people and they are hard to separate. You see a strongman and you know he's athletic but they always end up with destroyed bodies by the time they are 40. Marathon runners are basically anorexic but can outperform any of us. Sprinters have the most rounded of athleticism but often consume pizza as a staple. So how do we differentiate between what they do and what we should or shouldn't do? I'm sure most drink lots of water. Exercise tends to promote thirst and hunger, and you "gotta stay hydrated."

I may get flack here for this but I really don't think a little excess fat is good. I think it's good to fluctuate weight. I don't think one should get to the point of anorexia and one should definitely work on functional muscle building over aesthetic muscle building. I would argue 25% bodyfat is too much. Sorry, that's just chubby. You lose so much athleticism at that bodyfat percentage, your joints become inflammed from the weight, your poor knees and heels!!! Max bodyfat imo should be about 17-18%. Most pictures of hunter gatherers I see are at or below that. Lowest bodyfat should occur early spring at hopefully no less than 9%. Abs show at 12%. You become quite vascular at 10% also. Function>appearance, but at optimal function, healthy appearance occurs. Look at Ido Portal. He eats a "paleo" type diet as far as I understand and have seen videos of him eating bugs, which seems to be much more than most of us do here. Low bodyfat does not instantly mean malnourished. Too many factors in play.

Drinking water: Gosh this one's a toughie. I respect your knowledge on it a lot, Svrn. I still can't see why the extra energy and decreased hunger is a bad thing. Not only that but clarity of mind. Eating more food instead of drinking water only worsens the symptoms. Shouldn't that simply be clear enough to say that it's obvious that drinking water should be the option. Feel bad, drink and feel better. Feel bad, eat and feel worse. Feel bad, drink raw milk and feel worse. Feel bad, eat fruit and take a nap and be out of commission for the day. I feel weaker when I eat more than I'm supposed to. I AM weaker. I've compared fasted workouts to after eating and after eating a lot, fasted I definitely have the most output and drive to hit failure. Also, if I can't drink water or milk, what am I SUPPOSED to drink? Blood seems like a reasonable and natural option were I a paleo hunter, though I simply don't have access. Maybe I can cut a deal with my beef supplier.

One thing I can think of for extra energy/decreased hunger is that coffee gives the same effect to people. However, it is the drug causing the unnatural push. The energy derived from water is a natural energy, not hyper, clear headed, and no effect on emotions.

Hopefully like the rest of us, I'm willing to learn and change and accept that it's not the correct or optimal way to live. I'm just going off of what I've done and the best route for me. Also, from what I've read about long living historical figures that drank a lot of water. (though Svrn may argue from a conspiracy POV that that history is falsified to promote a water drinking agenda. I'm not mocking him either, I think that may be a completely valid point).
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline svrn

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #89 on: October 11, 2013, 12:27:36 pm »
You will find with a little bit of research that there are endless amounts of obviously unhealthy practices that lead to feeling of increased energy. Usually its the most unhealthy practices that seem to give people the most energy. (meth, coke, crack, coffee cigarettes etc all of these things also decrease hunger I hope you can see the connection). This is due to the adrenaline kicking in and is definitly no good although it usually feels good.

so i guess nobody came up with another animal on this planet with such diversity towards what is a poison for them. I did get plenty of excuses though.  :)
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Offline svrn

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #90 on: October 11, 2013, 12:30:03 pm »
Billions of people consume salt regularly with no obvious or immediate effects while a few have such effects.

how many times have you heard the sad eaters say  "Billions of people consume cooked food regularly with no obvious or immediate effects while a few have such effects".

since I think all of us are irritated when we come across such flawed logic being used by sad eaters we should refrain from using it ourselves.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #91 on: October 11, 2013, 11:20:02 pm »
how many times have you heard the sad eaters say  "Billions of people consume cooked food regularly with no obvious or immediate effects while a few have such effects".

since I think all of us are irritated when we come across such flawed logic being used by sad eaters we should refrain from using it ourselves.

Not all salts are cooked.

Offline ys

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #92 on: October 11, 2013, 11:33:48 pm »
Quote
how many times have you heard the sad eaters say  "Billions of people consume cooked food regularly with no obvious or immediate effects while a few have such effects".

This is totally true.  Not a flawed logic, just a solid fact.
The effects of cooked food start showing up much much later in life usually in the various forms of chronic and degenerative conditions.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #93 on: October 12, 2013, 12:39:14 am »
This is totally true.  Not a flawed logic, just a solid fact.
The effects of cooked food start showing up much much later in life usually in the various forms of chronic and degenerative conditions.
For some people only. For others like me, the health problems derived from eating cooked foods  start very early in life and get gradually worse.
"What is the point of growing up If you can't be childish sometimes..." - Tom Baker as Dr Who.

Offline ys

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #94 on: October 12, 2013, 01:19:03 am »
Quote
For some people only. For others like me, the health problems derived from eating cooked foods  start very early in life and get gradually worse.

yes, me too.  but 99.9% of population does fine on cooked food for the first 40-50 years.  Probably earlier for SAD and later for ethnic diets. All my grandparents and other older relatives started getting chronic conditions around 60-70.  If you eliminate all environmental factors (pollution, pesticide, household chemicals) it is possible people would start getting chronic conditions much later.
My wife's grandma is 90, she already has dementia, but she was in good health up to 85.  All her life she ate cooked food.  There are many people in her village live healthy up to 75-85.

Offline svrn

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #95 on: October 12, 2013, 01:40:56 am »
This is totally true.  Not a flawed logic, just a solid fact.
The effects of cooked food start showing up much much later in life usually in the various forms of chronic and degenerative conditions.

One can say that the effects of salt also start showing up much later in life for most people.

 EIther way I dont believe that too be true. I felt like I was almost a cripple at 19, childhood cancers, arthritis, and other such things are commonplace today, even those who eat cooked food thats all natural and dont use vaccines and drugs.

All of my friends who are in their late teens or 20s have some sort of health problem. I dont know where you get your information from but its totally wrong. ALL of the people around my age complain of some sort of health problem.
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Offline svrn

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #96 on: October 12, 2013, 01:45:26 am »
Not all salts are cooked.

when did I say all salts are cooked? another irrelevant comment from someone quoting me.

i really hope that people would refrain from quoting when their comment has nothing to do with the quote as those reading this with lower critical thinking skills may be harmed by believing that such responses were a valid counterpoint and thus basing their diets on such things.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #97 on: October 12, 2013, 02:12:01 am »
yes, me too.  but 99.9% of population does fine on cooked food for the first 40-50 years.  Probably earlier for SAD and later for ethnic diets. All my grandparents and other older relatives started getting chronic conditions around 60-70.  If you eliminate all environmental factors (pollution, pesticide, household chemicals) it is possible people would start getting chronic conditions much later.
My wife's grandma is 90, she already has dementia, but she was in good health up to 85.  All her life she ate cooked food.  There are many people in her village live healthy up to 75-85.

The above claim is not correct. You are forgetting that there are many  subtle ways in which cooked foods can harm the body. Infertility among the young, for example,  is extremely common, these days and many rawists report regaining fertility after going raw. Also, there are different perceptions as to health. Nowadays, people think it is quite normal for someone to have multiple allergies, diabetes and other childhood problems, which, imo, would not occur with a rawpalaeodiet from the womb onwards.
"What is the point of growing up If you can't be childish sometimes..." - Tom Baker as Dr Who.

Offline Dr. D

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Re: I love salt
« Reply #98 on: October 12, 2013, 02:40:02 am »
I understand your connection and am more than willing to experiment, though I don't have access to grass-fed raw milk year round and don't really see an option for that, and I really don't see my farmer getting me blood frequently, but I asked and we will discuss it.

What am I supposed to drink?

Isn't water supposed to be the thing that makes life possible? It just seems like I'm asking for health issues without it. My throat gets dry, I can't think straight, my eyes are dry and burn.... do I call that detox? How is it that so many long living people seem to do two things: eat less and drink more water.
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline Iguana

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Re: I love salt / water needs
« Reply #99 on: October 12, 2013, 03:02:01 am »
Isn't water supposed to be the thing that makes life possible? It just seems like I'm asking for health issues without it. My throat gets dry, I can't think straight, my eyes are dry and burn.... do I call that detox? How is it that so many long living people seem to do two things: eat less and drink more water.
Sure, water and coconut water are almost the only paleo drinks. Blood perhaps also but it repulses me.

The year I started to eat raw paleo,  in hot summer months I drank up to 7 liters per day. I drank the same amount when blocked 3 days at the Irak-Kuwait border in July by 50°C with no A/C. I was on cooked food at the time; without drinking enough water I wouldn't be here. In such a climate, you have to drink until you urinate at least a bit, otherwise you die of dehydration.

I drank a lot of water during my 20 first years of raw paleo, but a few years ago this thirst almost vanished. Then I ate half of a liver from a cow which should have been entirely grass fed, but the butcher had certainly swapped that liver with the one of another cow. The same night I had a nightmare, something I normally never experience anymore. I must have been kind of poisoned, got some troubles and still I haven't yet fully recovered, being very thirsty again.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

 

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