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Messages - Nicola

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Info / News Items / Announcements / Paleodietonline
« on: May 14, 2008, 04:25:19 am »

Have a look; some good information ;)


I am shocked :o to find all this when I have been posting quite a lot about stomach acid - so people do have problems and assume this or that!

Vinegar, lemon juice and other so called acids can make things worse. The question is paleo / salt / digestion? ???


Info / News Items / Announcements / Re: Urination
« on: May 11, 2008, 06:09:32 pm »
I follow the Intermittent Fasting yahoo group to find connections. Urination, stool are a part of metabolism - do we understand ??? or just accept :-[


General Discussion / Re: Protein and fat digestion
« on: May 11, 2008, 04:56:48 am »
Betaine is a source of hydrochloric acid (HCL), an acid found in digestiv juices that's involved in the production of the enzyme pepsin.

There are no food sources of betaine hydrochloride and it's not an essential nutrient.

HCL converts pepsinogen to pepsin, an enzyme that breaks down protein. As people age, HCL secretion may be reduced which means decreased levels of pepsin.

Betaine HCL is not the same as hydrochloric acid to aid digestion.
Hydrochloric acid is the water-based solution of (HCI) hydrogenchloride gas. It is a strong acid, the major component of gastric acid.

The body makes Betain from Cholin (found in raw! meat, liver, egg). Cholin is reduced by estrogen, suger, alcohol.

All the information I can find is not based on a raw meat and fat diet / paleo diet. No mention of how carnivore animals make hydrogenchloride gas with out extra salt.


Info / News Items / Announcements / Urination
« on: May 11, 2008, 04:31:16 am »
I find this quite interesting:

In the absence of dietary carbs, the body converts glycogen (stored primarily in the liver and muscles) to glucose.  Each gram of stored glycogen binds with 3 to 4 grams of water.  So when a gram of glycogen is converted to glucose, 3 to 4 grams of water are also released.  BTW, this accounts for the "supernaturally" fast loss of scale weight many people experience in the first week of a low-carb diet.  It's mostly water weight associated with glycogen storage.  Plus a gram of glycogen yields only about 4 kcal of energy, as opposed to about 9 kcal from a gram of fat.  So, e.g., satisfy a 9 kcal deficit via burning fat, and you lose only 1 gram of weight, but satisfy it via burning glycogen, and you lose about 9/4 = 2.25 grams of glycogen plus 3 to 4 times that much again in associated water weight.

One of insulin's lesser-known effects is to increase sodium retention by the kidneys, and the more sodium stored, the more water the body retains.  Insulin levels fall when fasting, which leads to sodium excretion, which leads to increased water excretion.


Welcoming Committee / Re: Craig Here!
« on: May 09, 2008, 05:26:25 am »
Thanks Nicola!

You've put a big smile on my face. :) That was really nice of you to post such a cute video to me for my birthday. Was that German the child was singing? I'm going to bookmark that video so I can send it to others.


Craig, not quite; Korean.


Welcoming Committee / Re: Craig Here!
« on: May 09, 2008, 03:59:35 am »
Hi Craig, it's May 7th your Birthday

Grate work, grate person.


General Discussion / Re: Protein and fat digestion
« on: May 09, 2008, 02:33:41 am »

I wonder now how dogs and other animals eating raw meat digest; the raw meat they get is not always fresh kill with a lot of blood.

What about those humans that eat pemmican; that is lean sun-dried meat and rendered fat - no extra salt?


General Discussion / Re: Protein and fat digestion
« on: May 08, 2008, 08:57:53 pm »
Do you still have your gall bladder? If you do, maybe you aren't producing enough bile. Bile is needed to emulsify the fat so that it can be absorbed properly but the undigested gristle does sound like you may have low hydrochloric acid in your stomach.

Prehistoric man had access to the whole animal and the meat would have been bloody so, I don't doubt that at all.


I have all intact (organs).

I am eating beef; I ride all the way to Germany (Waldshut) for Argentine beef (they are skiny); it has a wild tast, not like farmed beef in Europa (with manure sprayed on the feelds...)

The mutton leg is bloody too (not like lamb). The organs are bloody. And I am trying my bloody best :'(.


General Discussion / Re: Protein and fat digestion
« on: May 08, 2008, 06:20:27 pm »
Because fish is high in unsaturated fat and you said that digestion of beef fat is difficult because it is low in unsaturated fat. That's what confuses me.  ???

I agree with Dr. Groves about the blood and chlorine but he also doesn't believe that excess salt is a problem.

All you can do is experiment with the different advice you've been given and see what works for you. Please let us know if you do decide on any experiments. They'd fit nicely into the Lab Rats forum.


Craig, I didn't say that about fat and digestion was from me; that was posted on yahoo group.

I don't like to experiment as our mind can play tricks...salty tricks? No one is drinking ionized water - this water gives me like "high energy". Some say they drink no more than 4dl of "normal" water (on a high fat and protein diet) - perhaps I am drinking too much water? Some don't use salt (Lex) others think they need salt. I find undigested fat in my stool others say they bolt down tough and fat and digestion is "clean".

I found this when I googled:

Prehistoric man obtained salt from the meat of hunted animals. When man developed agriculture, salt was added to supplement the vegetable and cereal diet and the quest of salt became a primary motivation in history.

Any additional opinions ????

General Discussion / Re: Protein and fat digestion
« on: May 08, 2008, 02:15:40 am »
I'm a little confused. I thought you said on yahoo that fish was even harder for you to digest than beef.
You need chloride to make hydrochloric acid but I never found the chloride part of salt to be a problem for myself. There is about twice as much chloride as there is sodium in NaCl. They are both ions so they separate in liquid. I'm not sure how much Cl meat contains. I've checked the UDSA database and it's not even listed.


and I am confused too...I have not tryed fish because I now that fish takes long to digest if the fish is oily; what do you mean?

Some say use salt others say that raw meat does not need salt. Chloride is needed for protein (and fat?) digestion. If we need salt with raw meat (the Bear said that salt is not needed with meat), then we need it with all raw meat and every time we eat raw meat - not just every now and then.

This is what Dr. Groves sent me:

Hi Nicola

About saturated fat makes no sense. Whoever wrote it is ignorant of how the
body works.

The acid in the stomach is hydrochloric acid (HCl). It needs a supply of
clorine to replenish it. That chlorine comes in the diet, usually from
salt -- sodium chloride.

In palaeotimes, the blood of animals would have been used. These days
animals are bled. I think you would do well to use  salt again.

The difference between people's digestion could be that some eat salt and
some don't.


Barry Groves, PhD
Author: Natural Health and Weight Loss
Co-producer: Be Slim Without Dieting (Video / DVD)

Dogs don't eat fresh killed on a raw meat diet and don't need extra salt?

Some mention that they find suet / undigested protein in their sools - perhaps this is to do with no eating salt?


General Discussion / Re: Protein and fat digestion
« on: May 08, 2008, 01:59:23 am »
Re your quotation about saturated fats:- Out of interest, which guru did you get this quotation from? Was it a vegan one? I'm just curious.

No it was not a vega guru.


General Discussion / Protein and fat digestion
« on: May 07, 2008, 07:01:17 pm »
How do you get on with digesting protein and fat? I found this:

Saturated fats like meat fat can make the digestion worse because
they are low in the unsaturated fats and provide a basically neutral
environment in the intestines, but actually diluting HCL. In this
instance the intestines can't really ferment the meat and age it yet
the stomach acid is not strong enough to provide a good environment
for oxidating.
Could to little salt be the result of fat and protein found in stools?

I don't use salt and am wondering if this could be unhealthy for the human body and not be ideal even if the meat is raw and the fat is raw?


Welcoming Committee / Who is Nicola?
« on: May 07, 2008, 05:01:35 am »
I was born one year after my sister and one year before my brother on July 15th 1967 in Baden, Switzerland. My parents come from England and met in Switzerland. We emigrated to Australia, Croydon, Victoria when I was eight - that was freedom! My father was not to happy with the education; after only three years we left for Switzerland again - my disaster! We did visit many countrys both ways which I am very grateful of.

I learnt commercial secretary at a bank (Switzerland = banks!) and visited a beautician school in Zurich.

My interest is life in general - nutrition, because it is an essential part of life and as it is responsible for many aspects of's life I try to understand. I am very emotional, sensitive, reliable and like exercise/wellness, casual wear, keeping things tidy and having clean thoughts (?!).


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