breakfast

[Michael]

Wow, RAF for breakfast - don't know if I'm man enough for that !!

ha, ha    Maybe it'll make you a man?!   

I'm not going ZC, I believe in greens     but I need to get this leveled out.
?

Which 'greens' are you consuming?  I would be more accurately described as low carb really.  I do eat fresh herbs with my meats along with a little red onion and, occasionally, red pepper.  It's mainly cutting out all fruits and high carb vegetables that makes the difference to me (everything else, such as honey, dairy, dried fruit etc I'd cut out already of course).  I'm wondering if I have some kind of carbohydrate metabolism disorder?!  I've suffered for years with the blood sugar problems.  My current diet is the first time EVER that I've overcome this and I'm absolutely thrilled at the impact this is having on my life.  I'm not advising you to 'eat as I do and all will be fine' livingthelife but just know that you can 'keep your greens' AND potentially improve the symptoms you've mentioned.

Have you ever considered that you may suffer from candida problems?  I think this is a big issue for me and has always been so.  I'd recommend the work of Bee Wilder for good information on that subject.  The dizziness, fogginess etc can be attributed to yeast die-off with the sudden reduction in carbs.

[RawZi]

I'm not going ZC, I believe in greens     but I need to get this leveled out.

...

Wow, RAF for breakfast - don't know if I'm man enough for that !!

    I usually have a mixture of raw grass grazed butter, raw pastured eggs, unheated honey and a little green fruit for breakfast, or I'll have raw fatty meat for breafast, depends what's available.

    I'm consciously upping my greens somehow now.  I didn't feel well yesterday, so I forced myself to have a little green juice even though I don't like the taste anymore, then I had a small salad.  Today I had a medium blended salad, and one and a half unblended salads.  I feel better now.  Also got a massage, that definitely helped.  I suspect I might need more greens.  I had celery, green bell pepper, spinach, romaine, cucumber and mung sprouts today and last night.

[livingthelife]

I think I have had candida problems. I had wet itching ears for many years. Since I went raw I don't get it that often any more & when I do some gargling and the sauna clears it up. Of course, sugars don't help, I'm sure. Thanks for the recommendation.

I use the dark leafy greens - mostly kale, spinach, parsley, arugula - they are readily available. I usually juice them, I don't really like "salads." I love the taste of green juice! Maybe that will return for you, Rawzi. I also eat seaweed.

You are probably right, Michael, about your blood sugar. I've had a great sensitivity all my life too. Perhaps I'm an undiagnosed diabetic or something; I didn't eat properly for years and years. Last year when I first tried cutting carbs (drastically) I got really sick - diabetic-style sick. It seems now, gradually, I've inadvertently discovered that I can actually feel a lot better by not eating them. That was suggested to me last year & I didn't "get it;" I thought I "needed" them - and I did, like an addict.

I went through the kitchen just now and decided to cut out the dates, kombucha, honey, wine   and anything else that is very high in sugar. In addition to feeling better, I will save a boatload of $ because these are all quite expensive.

GoodSamaritan: What do you classify as a hydrating fruit? High-enzyme, like papaya, pineapple?

I'll have to experiment with the breakfast situation. All good advice here, thank you.

And maybe I'll go get myself a massage  

[RawZi]

I use the dark leafy greens - mostly kale, spinach, parsley, arugula - they are readily available. I usually juice them, I don't really like "salads." I love the taste of green juice! Maybe that will return for you, Rawzi. I also eat seaweed.

...

GoodSamaritan: What do you classify as a hydrating fruit? High-enzyme, like papaya, pineapple?

    I have found papaya to be lubricating, lemon too.

    I like kale juice while vegetarian.  Otherwise I really can't stand it.  The only cruciferous vegetable I can stand right now is a little raw cabbage.  I knew I ate a few other greens today/last night, one of the others was seaweed.  Thank you for reminding me, albeit inadvertantly.

[goodsamaritan]

Organic papaya is what we have lately (from Palawan)
Also melons are coming into season.
Watermelon sometimes.

I ban pineapples for breakfast for my family, too powerful enzymes on an empty stomach.  

[raw]

my toddler eats 1)home grown green wheatgrass juice with romaine lettuce juice, followed by freshly made carrot juice and 3 raw egg yolks followed by 1tbs cod liver oil for the breakfast.

i eat only pure wheatgrass juice (5 to 6 oz) or
any green smoothie/carrot smoothie followed by two egg yolks and 1 tbs cod liver oil.

 i was raw vegan and i can tell you 3 things that best for my body and can't leave without them... 1)wheat grass, because of grass crisis, i'm enjoying myself as being grass fed human being, 2)carrots, i believe they are divine , best for so many things and pick up very young carrots only...the old carrots has load of sugars, 3)celery, my organic salt for the body (i grow them year round and they're the best).

[TylerDurden]

Michael, avoid the dried fruit like the plague, it's full of toxins/sulphur etc.

[Michael]

Michael, avoid the dried fruit like the plague, it's full of toxins/sulphur etc.

Thanks Tyler.  Yes, I do avoid them now.  The 'energy ball' episode was a real one-off - kind of an experiment really.  I have always enjoyed dried fruits but have always ensured they're organic so toxins/sulphur dioxide wasn't an issue.  However, all that concentrated fructose IS an issue and seems even more of an issue now.  I no longer touch them.

You are probably right, Michael, about your blood sugar. I've had a great sensitivity all my life too. Perhaps I'm an undiagnosed diabetic or something; I didn't eat properly for years and years. Last year when I first tried cutting carbs (drastically) I got really sick - diabetic-style sick. It seems now, gradually, I've inadvertently discovered that I can actually feel a lot better by not eating them. That was suggested to me last year & I didn't "get it;" I thought I "needed" them - and I did, like an addict.

I went through the kitchen just now and decided to cut out the dates, kombucha, honey, wine   and anything else that is very high in sugar. In addition to feeling better, I will save a boatload of $ because these are all quite expensive.

I can relate to concerns of being diabetic.  I actually got to the point where I bought a blood sugar monitor years ago and did an 8hr glucose tolerance test.  It was a revealing experience and made me realise that I was actually suffering from hyperglycemia - which some believe is a pre-cursor to diabetes.  Allergies, endocrine disorders and, of course, insulin responses were all factors.  It's funny but I read Sugar Blues in 1999 and gave up sugar instantly - that is, I gave up sucrose.  Somehow I justified to myself that fresh fruits, dried fruits, raw honey etc were all ok as they were 'natural'.  The power of intellect justifying our addictions eh?!  

[PaleoPhil]

I generally eat 2 meals/day. I try to eat 2-4 raw eggs and 1/2 lb of bison or venison with suet or low-melted tallow for breakfast/lunch. I have a bigger helping of bison/venison (1 lb or more) and suet/tallow for supper and maybe another 2-4 raw eggs or some raw liver or high meat.

In my experience, the people who have the hardest time with breakfast are those who are addicted to eating some sort of cooked carb for breakfast, like processed cold cereals with milk, bagels with cream cheese, donuts, muffins, toast, pancakes, waffles, etc. They usually ask me what to "replace" the carb with and I tell them to stop thinking in terms of replacing carbs and starches with other carbs and starches and instead think more in terms of foods like eggs and meat with fat (akin to an eggs and sausage breakfast) or berries, but they are often unable to do so. The cooked carbs breakfast has really become ingrained into a lot of my friends' and relatives' psyches. Some have recognized that the wheat foods were harming them and gave them up, but it's difficult for any of them to give up all cooked carbs, and I'm not into pushing anyone.

[livingthelife]

I got my blood sugar under control already. I didn't have confidence that it was possible; my endocrine system has been taxed over the years.

I eliminated all nutritionally poor foods. Most were high-glycemic (wine, dates, honey, breads, beans, etc). Though I wasn't consuming many of these at all, apparently it was still too much. I'm using 1 slice of Ezekiel bread (sprouted, low-glycemic) per day to accompany 1T of ghee, after trying unsuccessfully to eat ghee in other ways.

I stocked the house with a wide variety of nutritionally dense foods with varying fat contents, including more raw cheese. I am now careful every meal to consume a variety of foods, 50% plant, 50% animal. All meals now "look" about the same, such as:

avocado
tomato
cheese
raw brunschweiger

or

green juice
banana
Ezekiel toast
ghee
cod liver oil
turkey

or

bell peppers
cauliflower
sunflower seeds
beef sashimi
marrow
...which is what I'm eating right now - yum!


I also quit coffee so that I can feel my hunger or thirst and respond appropriately.  

At first I had to eat a cracker, a date, or grapes between meals because of fatigue and lethargy. Also irritability. Those props have become unnecessary already. I feel much better.  

[Michael]

Hey livingthelife,

That's wonderful news!  Well done.  I suspected you would reap similar benefits to myself by dropping those high-carb foods.  It's good that you can still get away with some of the foods you mentioned - although I suspect you'd gain even more amazing control over your blood sugar were you to slowly drop these too!  

Isn't it a great feeling?!  

[raw]

I generally eat 2 meals/day. I try to eat 2-4 raw eggs and 1/2 lb of bison or venison with suet or low-melted tallow for breakfast/lunch. I have a bigger helping of bison/venison (1 lb or more) and suet/tallow for supper and maybe another 2-4 raw eggs or some raw liver or high meat.

In my experience, the people who have the hardest time with breakfast are those who are addicted to eating some sort of cooked carb for breakfast, like processed cold cereals with milk, bagels with cream cheese, donuts, muffins, toast, pancakes, waffles, etc. They usually ask me what to "replace" the carb with and I tell them to stop thinking in terms of replacing carbs and starches with other carbs and starches and instead think more in terms of foods like eggs and meat with fat (akin to an eggs and sausage breakfast) or berries, but they are often unable to do so. The cooked carbs breakfast has really become ingrained into a lot of my friends' and relatives' psyches. Some have recognized that the wheat foods were harming them and gave them up, but it's difficult for any of them to give up all cooked carbs, and I'm not into pushing anyone.

i love the choice your meals which is super simple and nutritious. i'll try on my little boy these. thanks phil.

[TylerDurden]

Livingthelife, do try elimination diets getting rid of all grains and dairy. I've had people protesting to me for years that they were fine on a little raw dairy(eg:- raw butter) and, always, in the end, they finally admitted that, actually, their health improved measurably if they cut out all such foods altogether.

[livingthelife]

I'm not convinced of the arguments against raw cheese. The fourth stomach of every naturally raised calf contains a cache of cheese. I think some raw cheese is a paleo food, but perhaps I'm mistaken. I don't doubt its nutritive value.

I also think that some grains in various stages of germination have a place in the paleo diet, and I'm including sprouted grains as plant foods. (Though slow-baked at low temps, essene-style breads are not paleo, it's true.) But why would we (should we - and why?) really avoid certain foods simply because of an abstract categorization - the difference between a nut, a seed, and a grain? Knowing humans as I do  I think we have always been opportunists, even as foragers. 

I'm always open to change; I'm always changing. So we'll see what comes along next

[PaleoPhil]

...But why would we (should we - and why?) really avoid certain foods simply because of an abstract categorization - the difference between a nut, a seed, and a grain? Knowing humans as I do   I think we have always been opportunists, even as foragers.  

I'm always open to change; I'm always changing. So we'll see what comes along next

It's a common question and one I've been thinking about recently, but I ask the reverse question because I think my default position may be the opposite of yours. Your question seems based on the default position that modern foods like sprouted, slow-baked grains and raw cheese are healthy unless proven otherwise. My default position is to start with the the foods that appear to be most biologically appropriate (as per the scientific theory of evolutionary nutrition with its disease mechanism of biological discordance) and don't have any apparent negative effects on my health while meeting all my basic nutritional needs and then add foods one at a time if there is good reason to do so and the positives significantly outweigh the negatives. Foods that are obviously not Paleo, like grains and dairy products, remain on my skeptical (or cheat) list until proven healthy--or at least not unhealthy. I don't assume they are OK until proven unhealthy, because that's the sort of thinking that led to my developing numerous chronic illnesses in the first place. My view on this has nothing to do with the common criticisms like abstract categorizations, charges of Paleo-re-enactment or dietary disorders. It is instead founded on science (evolutionary/Paleolithic nutrition, evolutionary medicine, Paleoanthropology, evolutionary biology, physiology, metabolism, biochemistry, etc.) and experience (my own and others').

In other words, instead of asking "Why shouldn't I eat this modern food?" I ask myself "Why should I eat this food that was clearly not a staple food for 99+% of human existence--especially given that I seem to be doing fine without it?" In this specific case I would ask myself "Why should I eat sprouted slow-baked grains and raw dairy products?" At this time I don't have a good enough answer to eat those foods.

I skeptically analyze even foods that are considered "Paleo" by many. For example, many consider raw honey "Paleo," yet my study of traditional societies suggests that none of them ate only raw honey and never raw grubcomb (so eating just the honey would seem to be a modern practice), and raw honey causes me to break out with acne, so I consider it a "cheat" food that I only eat for pleasure (it seems less of a problem for me than most obviously modern foods, for whatever reason)--not part of my regular diet.

As always, YMMV and you're free to eat whatever you wish and I hope it works for you.

[livingthelife]

The rigidity on this forum is ludicrous.

Cheese is a naturally occurring food product present in the stomachs of calves.

This study describes the extraction of curds from live calves' stomachs. You have to use calves stomach lining to make cheese. Every suckling mammal killed would have had cheese in it.

The shunning of raw or sprouted grains is also ludicrous. A few natural seeds and nuts can be eaten but a few grains are dangerous?

I didn't say it outright before, but I think that there is a lot of obsession and disordered eating on this forum as well.

[djr_81]

The rigidity on this forum is ludicrous.

Cheese is a naturally occurring food product present in the stomachs of calves.

This study describes the extraction of curds from live calves' stomachs. You have to use calves stomach lining to make cheese. Every suckling mammal killed would have had cheese in it.

The shunning of raw or sprouted grains is also ludicrous. A few natural seeds and nuts can be eaten but a few grains are dangerous?

I didn't say it outright before, but I think that there is a lot of obsession and disordered eating on this forum as well.

I was going to say something sarcastic to begin this post but there's no need to add fuel to a fire.
I think you need to to figure out what may be upsetting your emotional balance and right it. It might be diet based or it might be outside forces which are harder to control but you've been getting much more emotional and less grounded lately. You're in "air"/"fire" mode right now, you need to get back to "water"/"earth".

I think the best part of this forum is the vast range of past diets and experience people bring to the metaphoric table. This is inevitably going to result in disagreement and discussion but that's all it needs to be. The beauty of the group of people here is the collective intelligence; we should be above stupid arguments and semantics.

Cheese: If it is in the fourth stomach of suckling mammals then it was probably consumed more frequently than we give credit. It doesn't mean that it was a food that would be eaten frequently; the likelihood of taking down a suckling animal was low (I'd think we'd intentionally go after older animals for larger fat deposits). Of this percentage the "cheese" would likely be divided among the group. It wouldn't be a staple of their diet, it would be a rare treat.

Grains: How about rather than shunning grains for their absence in paleolithic times (which admittedly is a little silly to me) we shun them for the intolerance most people have to them? Just because we can eat something doesn't mean we should.

I'll agree that some have an obsession with food to a detrimental level on this forum. I'll also agree some, myself included, are disordered in their eating (although I don't view this un-obsession to be an issue-we eat what makes us feel good when we desire it).

[Ioanna]

I didn't say it outright before, but I think that there is a lot of obsession and disordered eating on this forum as well.

I think there are a lot of disordered digestion on this forum with obsession to correct it.  What in the world does one have without health?... the use of your word 'obsessive' which has a negative connotation, is to me a perseverance to be commended, but anyone reading this can label as you please.  I don't care... I have my health back

[TylerDurden]

Yes, the young would be far less likely to be hunted as the older animals have all those extra fat-layers. Plus, predators often leave out the stomach-/intestine-contents so there's no reason why those would have been eaten in the Palaeolithic, given that humans have invariably followed predator habits such as re prizing organ-meats over muscle-meats.

As regards dietary obsession, I think it's necessary to be somewhat "obsessive" re health for any particular diet, (though I think a more suitable word would be "keen"). For example, I don't suffer anywhere near as badly on grains as I do with dairy, but I still think it's important to frequently mention the dangers of grains as many others develop much nastier food-intolerances towards grains than I do. Now, of course, we all have differing food-intolerances to different foods due to our unique past health problems, plus there are those hefty social restrictions in everyday life, so there's nothing wrong whatsoever with not following a diet 100%(not possible here anyway as there's a difference in philosophy between omnivorous, rawpalaeodieters and raw, zero-carbers for example).

[PaleoPhil]

If some of the comments were directed at my posts, then there appear to be several misconceptions here regarding my diet and my views. However, I don't wish to discuss it further if it's going to upset livingthelife, as it's not my purpose to upset anyone. I'll just share some info that I hope will enable folks to relax a bit: I do not adhere rigidly 100% to any diet (though I also won't criticize anyone who finds they need to due to severe sensitivities, and agree with Tyler that there are people who need to do that) and actually consumed some dairy, carbs and cooked foods at the Thanksgiving meal. I am probably less strict than many people here.