Author Topic: Frozen Meat  (Read 13537 times)

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Offline Tundra

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Frozen Meat
« on: April 25, 2009, 02:20:32 am »
Just new to this raw paleo diet.
I buy meat/bone marrow/liver in bulk and tend to freeze them. I thaw it before i eat them though.
I read from one of Aajonus book's that freezing meat causes the e.coli in meat to flourish...
How can i be sure that I'm not eating e.coli thru previously frozen raw animal foods...

Thanks.

Offline Tundra

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2009, 02:21:37 am »
forgot to mention the meat/bone marrow/liver is organic, grass-fed

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2009, 06:22:37 am »
I read from one of Aajonus book's that freezing meat causes the e.coli in meat to flourish...

As with much of what Aajonus says, this statement is stretching reality just a teensy weentsy bit.  A more accurate statement would be that freezing meat (or any food for that matter) doesn't kill E.coli or most other bacteria - just slows down their activity significantly.  When you thaw the food the bacteria will become active again.

Most E.coli likes a neutral or slightly alkaline environment to grow and multiply.  It is all over almost everything around us, but is killed by the acidic environment in our digestive tracts.  There is, however, a mutant strain of E.coli that is adapted to the acidic environment and therefore isn't killed when we consume it.  This acid resistant strain, E. coli 0157:H7, comes from feeding grass eating animals like beef, grains in the feed lot in an effort to fatten them up quickly for more profit.  The unnatural grains cause the animial's normally alkaline digestive system to become acidic and over time E.coli (which are always present) adapt to this unnatural environment as well, and then become dangerous to humans.

If you are truly eating grass-fed and finished animals the probability of encountering the acid resistant variety of e.coli would be extremely rare.  I've been eating frozen and thawed, raw grass fed/finished meats for well over 3 years now and have had no problems at all.

 E. Coli: Livestock fed corn silage and animal byproducts are more likely to carry E. coli 0157:H7 than other livestock, such as grass-fed livestock. Ref: Herriott, D.E., D.D. Hancock, et al. (1998) Journal of Food Protection 61(7):802-7.    
The gastric juices in the human stomach destroy 99.99% of the normal type of E. coli found in grass-fed livestock.  A high percentage of the acid resistant E. coli from grain-fed livestock will survive the same acid bath in the human stomach and can cause major health problems. Ref: Diez-Gonzalez, F., T.R. Callaway, et al. (1998) Science 281(5383): 1666-8.
 

Offline achillezzz

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2011, 05:38:40 am »


 E. Coli: Livestock fed corn silage and animal byproducts are more likely to carry E. coli 0157:H7 than other livestock, such as grass-fed livestock. Ref: Herriott, D.E., D.D. Hancock, et al. (1998) Journal of Food Protection 61(7):802-7.  
The gastric juices in the human stomach destroy 99.99% of the normal type of E. coli found in grass-fed livestock.  A high percentage of the acid resistant E. coli from grain-fed livestock will survive the same acid bath in the human stomach and can cause major health problems. Ref: Diez-Gonzalez, F., T.R. Callaway, et al. (1998) Science 281(5383): 1666-8.
 

Sorry for bumping an old thread guys but I have to ask something.

What are those major health problems that this ecoli can cause?
I need that info because I'm about getting my self frozen organic ground beef and I am scared of parasites and bacteria like ecoli.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 06:03:31 am by achillezzz »

Offline kurite

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2011, 12:45:52 pm »
Sorry for bumping an old thread guys but I have to ask something.

What are those major health problems that this ecoli can cause?
I need that info because I'm about getting my self frozen organic ground beef and I am scared of parasites and bacteria like ecoli.
Just do a quick google on dangers of ecoli.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."

Offline raw-al

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2011, 11:58:37 pm »
Interesting, I heard that our gut contains a lot of different bacteria including the strain mentioned but that our immune system kept it in check.

This is true of a lot o so-called dangerous microbes.
Cheers
Al

Offline Justaraw

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2012, 02:24:49 am »
Hello everyone.
I have a very important bit of personal experience I would like to share. My diet I would describe as a WAPF Diet. But, when I eat meat I would say its 50/50 split Raw/Cooked. I am a 25 year old student. I would just like to start off by saying FROZEN MEAT IS SH!T. Everything that is said about the nutrition diminishing properties of freezing food  is true. It's a long story so in a nut shell, I bought my meat from an organic farmer that I really liked (because I knew his farm was in a really isolated and healthy place) for the longest time, but his meat was frozen. Rarely I would eat some fresh meat, but for the most part (98%) it was frozen.  By some freak stroke of luck, I was forced to eat fresh meat for a extended period (frozen bison-> fresh lamb).  My girlishly long hair became volumous, shiny, and sooo touch-ably healthy (and I rarely use shampoo or conditioner). I felt sooo strong and healthy, and just plain happy and great etc. (only variable changed was the frozen to fresh). As a result I will defiantly be purchasing as much of my meat fresh from now on. I still have to eat some frozen meat(fish, because I'm Albertan, and allow) and I am OK with that until I find a fresh alternative. As a side note, im not sure how freezing changes the meat, however, it would make sense that frozen meat would not be that healthy. We, as a species, don't really have experience of eating frozen stored meat. Even, from what I know, the Intuits dry their meat and store it, or eat it really fresh. They may have froze it once and a while as a method of breaking it down but most of the time I hear their eating habits are to gorge on really fresh food. Never the less freezing meat is a habit that really unique to the most resent half century.
Experiment for yourselves everyone best of luck with your diets!
Justin.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 02:30:51 am by Justaraw »

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2012, 10:46:11 am »
I think the problem is more the WAY it's frozen.  However, I do notice a big taste difference between fresh and frozen, and I avoid frozen meat/fish as much as I can.

Offline Aaaaaa

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2012, 11:32:07 am »
What do you mean by the "way" its frozen?  What way of freezing would be better and what would be worse?

CitrusHigh

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2012, 11:49:58 am »
Just like with dairy pasteurizing there are different methods. There is in-line pasteurizing which is a violent rapid heating that causes tons of damage to enzymes, vitamins and minerals and then there is vat pasteurizing which slowly and gently brings the milk up to temp inside of a vat, which is much easier on the nutrients. As with freezing, neither of these methods are intrinsically good, but some are a lesser evil.

I don't know which method of freezing is best, but I would do my best to get fresh foods whenever possible, freezing definitely takes a toll on meats. My personal example is that I've raised 4 of my dog's puppies. They are all 1 yr and 1 month old now and 3 of them who live here on the farm get almost exclusively frozen meat. The other dog, Leo, stays with me all week long coming to work with me and in to the city, because of this we eat as a family and he eats whatever I eat. I eat almost exclusively fresh meat and so does he. His hair is much shinier than the other dogs. They are still much shinier than most dogs, but not as shiny as Leo, who is jet black, but appears dark blue on sunny days because his coat is so reflective.

Offline Aaaaaa

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2012, 12:13:45 pm »
Hmmm that is interesting!
I *can* get fresh meat, but it is average $10/lb VS frozen for $5-7/lb...so its a fairly big price difference.  Unfortuently I can't afford fresh for my dog, but he does get fresh scraps occasionally, and otherwise all (prefrozen) raw meat. 
I have kind of been going back and forth on this issue because of the price...and then there are so many folks saying that they notice no difference, but then there are also many saying they do!  It's hard for me to tell if I have seen a difference in myself yet...definetly *tastes* better, but I haven't noticed any major health improvement in the ~1 month I've been eating mostly fresh meat VS frozen.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2012, 07:23:19 pm »
CitrusHigh,
That's essentially what Aajonus says. He says something about dogs eating frozen foods getting Mange.

One Allopathic physician whose name escapes me says that freezing causes deterioration in Omega 3s over time.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 08:49:24 pm by raw-al »
Cheers
Al

CitrusHigh

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2012, 10:08:44 pm »
It's funny because the dogs here on the farm developed what looked for all the world to be mange(a minor form that was causing a bit of hair loss around the eyes, nose and ears) several months back, and I remembered that part of Aajonus' book, but my mama took them in to the vet against my wishes and she said it was an allergic reaction to the plastic from the water dishes they drink out of. I don't know which it really was, I added extra liver (not frozen) to their diets at first because I assumed it really was mange (a lot of mangy foxes around here) and I figured it little bit of fresh super food would remedy the problem but my mama also switched out all of the water dishes with metal and ceramic. I shun plastic always so Leo only ever drank out of glass, ceramic, metal except when on the farm here. It's my mama's farm, I just work it, so that is why plastic water dishes were here at all in the first place, under my control that would not happen. So I can't say whether in the end it was the food or the dishes and I wonder what variables there were in Aajonus' experiments.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2012, 11:59:17 pm »
CitrusHigh,
I do believe that is the most credible post I have seen, on what freezing does to food.

Re plastic: There are many books on that topic, but bottom line is as you suggest; Stay as far away from plastic as you can and especially in anything food related or clothing for that matter.

Plastic has been implicated in accelerated puberty in young girls which is problematic as to what it does for their brain development.

It is also suggested in many other issues including young boys. Read the books by Leonard Sax MD on boys and girls development. http://www.leonardsax.com/
Cheers
Al

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2012, 04:26:10 am »
What do you mean by the "way" its frozen?  What way of freezing would be better and what would be worse?

Very fast freezing tends to keep more of the nutrients intact.  Slower freezing tends to cause more damage to the cells and the nutrients.

Offline Aaaaaa

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2012, 06:37:12 am »
That's what I thought, too.  I know that the frozen berries I get are "flash frozen", but not for sure about the meat.  I'm fairly sure it is and its also vacuum packaged, which I'm sure also helps.
I think I'm going to be getting 1/3 frozen and 2/3 fresh meat and see how I do with that.

Offline Aaaaaa

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2012, 11:49:31 am »
During my consult with Dr. Ron Schmid the other day, I asked what he thought about the difference between fresh and frozen meat.  He said that he often eats frozen, but thinks that fresh is ideal and that everyone should try to get at least *some* fresh meat in their diet.  That makes sense to me, because in the wild in a northern climate, humans would have probably eaten some meat frozen, and some meat fresh.  So I feel fairly comfortable eating a mix now!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 11:50:47 am by TylerDurden »

CitrusHigh

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2012, 04:02:45 pm »
Good idea Sile! I think a little goes a long way for sure. I'm surprised you're not able to get anything fresh cheaper than that though. Is that because you don't want to try organs or limited access?

I NEVER pay more than 6/lb for fresh but usually between 2 and $4/lb. But I also don't buy buffalo because the only stuff I have access to is grain finished, or heavily supplemented.

Of course I've been doing this a long time now and have developed lots of relationships with sources and retailers.

Raw-al yeah plastics and all those nasties are really brutal on youngsters! I was listening to an interview recently on endocrine disruptors and what I found fascinating with chemicals like BPA, the reason they're so distructive is because they affect areas of the system that are 'amplifiers' meaning that even miniscule amounts can have huge repercussions in developing children and fetuses inside of the room. And what makes them more insidious is that the effects, like cancer, don't (at least in some cases) show up until years and years down the road. Then all of a sudden say, a girl will develop breast cancer because of fetal exposure or exposure as an infant. Of course perhaps this sort of thing would correct itself on our way of eating, but then again, perhaps not. Someday people will look back on these sorts of practices with incredulity. "How could people have been sooo foolish" they will say!

Offline Aaaaaa

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2012, 11:50:04 pm »
Yeah, I have to order my fresh meat online, actually.  It's from a bison farm that is about 4 hrs away from where I live.  Even heart is $10/lb...I think liver is cheaper, but only by a little ($7/lb I think)...and I can only eat so much liver!  I really only enjoy it as pate.  I wish that some of the farmers or grocery stores or butchers around here would be able to get fresh  meat, but I've been asking around and everybody says no. :-(  And we have no Whole Foods, or anything like that.
Frozen meat (from Scottish Highland cows, which I think are a heritage breed) I can get for around 5.50/lb for roasts and a little less for organs.

CitrusHigh

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2012, 12:07:08 am »
I just had some meat from scottish highland for the first time recently, my awesome family gave it to me as a christmas present because they're thoughtful! It was super funny when my step mom said "oh wait, I have another gift for you but I've got to get it out of the freezer" haha!

Anyway, I was blown away by how delicious the meat was, incredible!

Bummer on the lack of availability. Sounds like a job for...LOA! I swear to god, the law of attraction just brought me new sources of meat and raw grass fed cream, I kid you not! And a $7/qt it's a steal!


Offline Aaaaaa

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2012, 06:28:53 am »
Hehe what a thoughtful family!  I love highland beef as well, but my husband thinks it is a little too "gamey".  I dunno what he's talking about.  But I do like more flavorful meat...oh well, he'll just have to get used to it! ;-)

What do you mean by this "law of attraction"??  I would love to attract some good sources for milk and meat and fish to myself haha!  Actually, I think I get cream for about $7 per qt, depending on the season, because basically I can buy only whole milk by the gallon, and one gallon is $7 and produces about 1 qt. cream, or a little less now in the winter.  I just don't know what to do with the rest of the skimmed milk...:-S because I'm supposed to be only eating the fatty part. 

Offline raw-al

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2012, 09:44:35 am »
The Secret: View first 20 minutes
 the first 24 minutes of "The Secret"

If you get the chance, you would enjoy it.

Some will make fun of it as being "new agey", but the reality is that anyone who is successful uses this whether consciously or not.

After reading a book on this many years ago, I decided to try it. I cut out some pictures of what I had put on my list of goals.

Most of the goals have been reached, but one was actually startling. I cut out a picture of a jet that I always wanted to fly. http://www.google.com/search?q=dassault+falcon+50&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=4vghT826BOfo0QH4nOXpCA&ved=0CEMQsAQ&biw=930&bih=1083 It was flying by a mountain with clouds around it and some snow on top.

Well, long story but completely by accident I ended up flying that exact type and model and as we were descending into an airport in Oregon, just before it got busy, the Captain and I were admiring the mountains when it hit me. (The memory   ;D ;) not the mountain...) This was the exact picture I had on my "vision board". The altitude, the clouds the mountain and the aircraft. That blew my mind.

I would say all successful pro sports/business/politicos/mothers etc. use the techniques. It's a sin not to give it at least a try AFAIAC. A wasted life.

BTW we get milk $ 8. Can. for 4 litres (slightly larger than a US QT per Litre) that is very slightly creamed (meaning a bit of cream has been removed) and we buy the cream separately @ 30 Can.D for 2L.. It's very thick cream. We mostly make butter with it.
Cheers
Al

Offline RawZi

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2012, 03:14:12 pm »
    I've tried some frozen glands and chicken. I couldn't give eating the chicken a fair shot, it just felt wrong, so I didn't swallow it. After the glands I got some swelling.

I just don't know what to do with the rest of the skimmed milk...:-S because I'm supposed to be only eating the fatty part. 

    You might bathe in it, or make it into house paint.  It's good for fattening chickens and pigs.  I don't know if that means it gives them metabolic syndrome.  Maybe you have a neighbor who would want grass fed skim milk. A soup kitchen.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline Aaaaaa

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2012, 01:40:14 am »
Hmmm good ideas RawZi!  I think I might use it for bathing...I've heard its good for your skin before, too.  That would be nice and luxurious. ;-)
I would like to give it to a soup kitchen, but since raw milk is illegal here in WI I don't know if that would maybe cause some problems...?

Oh, and I'm watching The Secret now!  Its amazing!!!  The LOA concept is actually quite similar to the concept in a book I read a while ago (and then kind of forgot about...tsk tsk!) called Psycho Cybernetics.  I have already started using the visualization and feeling things they are talking about!  The mind is an wonderful thing...;-)  WOW!

Offline eveheart

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Re: Frozen Meat
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2012, 02:43:38 am »
The LOA concept is actually quite similar to the concept in a book I read a while ago (and then kind of forgot about...tsk tsk!) called Psycho Cybernetics.

I agree, Psycho Cybernetics is a great book. It just goes to show you that great truth and wisdom appears over and over again, to every age. They say that, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. This is also true for raw paleo food sources. Neither drought nor distance nor any other factor can stand in the way of right and pure nourishment.

"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

 

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