Author Topic: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?  (Read 3400 times)

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Offline Robinlove

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What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« on: June 21, 2017, 12:02:39 pm »
Aside from the obvious "it's dead and you denature the enzymes" thing, what are the drawbacks to cooking greens, like kale and spinach? For example, a pro is you denature oxalates, and another is you can eat a whole lot more. A con is you kill it! Any other pros/cons? I'm mostly interested in cons. I'm wondering why humans decided to keep cooking greens, and if the cons outweigh this for me, personally.

Offline Iguana

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Re: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2017, 04:54:41 pm »
Because their instinct doesn’t protect them against stuff not commonly found in nature such as cooked, mixed or processed food, as well as other animals humans have been unable to weight these pros and cons until the scientific advancements permitted it.

The fact that you can eat a whole lot more when a foodstuff is cooked is of course a con because you can then absorb it in detrimental amounts and overload the body. Then, being in a permanent state of overload, humans became unable to eat the same food raw, unmixed and un-seasoned since when they tried they bumped in their instinctive stop signals more or less immediately. As their were unable to understand this until recently (our nutritionists still haven't understood this), they had no choice but to keep on cooking!

Heat is thermal agitation. When heat accelerates the speed of the molecules, they knock against each other more and more violently. Thus, complex and delicate organic molecules can get damaged and transformed into innumerable new compounds of every shapes and kinds by chemical reactions with others molecules. Some of these new chemical compounds have been found toxic, some are mutagens, some are carcinogenic.

Google for AGEs (Advanced Glycation Endproducts), ALEs, Maillard's molecules.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 05:05:04 pm by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline dariorpl

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Re: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2017, 07:22:56 pm »
According to AV, you need specific enzyme mutations to be able to properly tolerate cooked greens.

Here he was talking about some of the effect of eating cooked greens for those who lacked the proper enzyme mutations:

Quote
Fat resins, especially from vegetable oils, and protein residues from cooked or processed green foods first collect in intestinal cells. Secondly, they collect as gummy resins in the glands (as in prostatitis leading to prostate cancer). Thirdly, they collect as gummy resins in the brain (as in Alzheimer’s disease). Finally, the gummy resins frequently crystallize, hardening cells and creating disease such as hardening of the heart, arteriosclerosis and multiple sclerosis.
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Offline Iguana

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Re: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2017, 08:15:22 pm »
I wonder where he picked up such a pseudo-scientific gibberish.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline surfsteve

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Re: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2017, 01:29:59 am »
I used to eat a lot of canned greens. You can eat a lot more cooked greens than raw for sure. This probably evolved as a secondary food source when meat was scarce. Since going raw I do not eat nearly as many vegetables as I did before but I still eat my fair share.

You don't get rid of all the anti-nutrients in greens by cooking them. You only reduce them. I don't see them as a con unless you eat too much of them. I've always felt the vegetables are the antidote to the toxins in meat. This could just all be in my head but it's what my body tells me. I feel pretty good eating a moderate amount but when I tried to go vegan I felt like I was suffering from malnutrition.

I think there is wisdom in the saying “the dose makes the poison” and that many of the anti-nutrients like the website below tells you to avoid are actually beneficial in the right quantity.

https://draxe.com/antinutrients/

Offline Robinlove

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Re: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2017, 09:14:06 pm »
There are foods that humans have eaten for like hundred if not thousands of years that require cooking, like elderberries. They are wild, undomesticated, and I can't seem to find an issue with them, except they need to be cooked. This is a strange topic to me, cooking certain foods to render them edible. Thoughts?

Offline Iguana

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Re: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2017, 09:40:05 pm »
I think there is wisdom in the saying “the dose makes the poison” and that many of the anti-nutrients like the website below tells you to avoid are actually beneficial in the right quantity.

Yes, exactly, they can be when eaten in the right amount for a particular person at a particular moment.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Iguana

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Re: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2017, 09:45:19 pm »
There are foods that humans have eaten for like hundred if not thousands of years that require cooking, like elderberries. They are wild, undomesticated, and I can't seem to find an issue with them, except they need to be cooked. This is a strange topic to me, cooking certain foods to render them edible. Thoughts?

Cooking makes it possible to eat some foods that we shouldn't normally eat. Having no issues with them in the short term doesn't mean they won't cause issues in the long-run.

On the other hand, eating those cooked "foods" can prevent starvation in case there's nothing else to eat!
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Online TylerDurden

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Re: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2017, 02:41:48 am »
http://www.13.waisays.com/plants.htm

The above is 1  possible viewpoint among many. I personally only eat a few vegetables such as radishes and carrots. I will also eat   raw salad leaves even though I don`t like the taste of them, as a raw salad is easier for the mundanes(I mean, "cooked-foodists"   ;)    )to accept on a social level. My rule/guess is that the higher the levels of antinutrients in the raw vegetable, the less it tastes good, so raw broccoli/raw kale are out.


Boy, I live for the day when I  can happily kill and slaughter  a whole animal like a sheep or a wild boar and consume it on the spot before the, er "ordinaries". That reminds me, we have no code-words to describe RPDers or cooked-foodists, really.

Offline dariorpl

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Re: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2017, 09:37:25 pm »
Boy, I live for the day when I  can happily kill and slaughter  a whole animal like a sheep or a wild boar and consume it on the spot before the, er "ordinaries".

We should open a rpd/primal resort where this is an everyday thing. We'd have the highest quality foods mostly produced on-site. We'd take visitors/tourists from all over the world who could stay, relax, learn and gain knowledge and experience for a fee.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 10:09:47 pm by dariorpl »
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Online TylerDurden

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Re: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2017, 12:16:55 am »
We should open a rpd/primal resort where this is an everyday thing. We'd have the highest quality foods mostly produced on-site. We'd take visitors/tourists from all over the world who could stay, relax, learn and gain knowledge and experience for a fee.
Not all of us can afford jetting across continents to visit a very expensive spa/resort for raw foodists. However, like with other diets, we need to have available more rpd-friendly restaurants and rpd-meetups etc.Well, there are a couple of genuine sashimi restaurants in London, so far, and, admittedly, really good restaurants usually offer raw steak tartare as an entree, their idea being to suggest to the public that if they can offer a raw-meat-dish they must be 100% effective at cleanliness standards etc.overall  in order to avoid food-poisoning.

I wonder what happened to all those primal potlucks after aajonus' death?

Offline dariorpl

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Re: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2017, 01:50:54 am »
Not all of us can afford jetting across continents to visit a very expensive spa/resort for raw foodists. However, like with other diets, we need to have available more rpd-friendly restaurants and rpd-meetups etc.

It wouldn't be that expensive. We could open it in a place where land and labor are both inexpensive, but where there isn't a lot of crime and life is comfortable for foreigners. My idea is that a stay in this resort could cost less than the typical vacation, perhaps to such an extent that for an average person, going to this resort for a month might very well cost the same as the typical sightseeing trip costs for a week or two. Of course, for the wealthy, we might offer premium rooms and service and the like. But we would also be able to offer budget packages.
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Online TylerDurden

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Re: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2017, 02:18:15 am »
It would also have to be a place where very high quality raw foods of all kinds were available, reasonably cheaply.Pangaia in Hawaii was one such example which was at first Instincto/high-raw-vegan, then went Primal Diet and now is, last I checked, almost wholly raw vegan.

Offline dariorpl

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Re: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2017, 10:46:32 am »
Depending on the climate, the idea would be to produce most of the foods on-site. We'd produce much more than our guests could consume so we'd also sell food to the locals. For foods that could not be produced on-site, we'd purchase them in bulk.
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Offline Robinlove

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Re: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2017, 11:07:03 pm »
Y'all need hunting licenses

Offline Iguana

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Re: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2017, 11:27:13 pm »
It's a lot of work to produce food! I have about 8000 m2 of land and we planted fruits trees all around since two or three years. We have bees, ducks, hens, strawberries, soon melons and tomatoes but not even enough for the 3 o 4 of us - except eggs, which we finally have now enough. 
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Iguana

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Re: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2017, 11:31:22 pm »
Friend collecting green peas.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline cobalamin

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Re: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2017, 09:46:43 pm »
Strangely I find wilting certain vegetables whole at the lowest temperature on the electric stove for hours and then eating them the next day when they have cooled down as healthful. I feel amazing after eating them. They make my head hair healthy and I don't have trouble getting out of bed.

http://www.13.waisays.com/plants.htm

The above is 1  possible viewpoint among many. I personally only eat a few vegetables such as radishes and carrots. I will also eat   raw salad leaves even though I don`t like the taste of them, as a raw salad is easier for the mundanes(I mean, "cooked-foodists"   ;)    )to accept on a social level. My rule/guess is that the higher the levels of antinutrients in the raw vegetable, the less it tastes good, so raw broccoli/raw kale are out.

You're referring to Cruciferous vegetables which are poisonous raw.

I don't agree regarding the taste. I've consumed raw cicoria spadona without oils while living in my home country in Italy many times and found them extremely bitter and extremely healthy. Healthy nails and the feeling of a steel rod spinal cord the day after.

Offline surfsteve

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Re: What are the exact issues with cooking greens?
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2017, 12:44:34 am »
I've drank my share of raw kale juice. Seems like there's something in it that gives me a lot of strength but too much of it makes me weak. I guess there's a level of antinutrients I can tolerate and if I go above it, it becomes toxic. Since going raw I've cut down on the amount of vegetables I eat. Especially the leafy ones. I don't find them as appealing. Sure I no longer eat cooked ones but in fact I even eat less raw ones than I used to. I've also more than doubled my amount of fruits.

If you're going to eat a lot of greens they probably need to be cooked so you don't get too many antinutrients. I think we as humans need a certain amount of greens in order to be healthy and that herbs and vegetables have things in them that counteract the toxicity of meat. This is true that certain herbs dissolve the uric acid from meat but there are probably other substances, especially in cooked meats as well.

 

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