Author Topic: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)  (Read 4950 times)

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Offline Pumkin

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Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« on: July 17, 2017, 03:35:51 am »
Coming from a vegan eating style (only raw fruits/plant foods vegan) for over a decade.

Usual lifestyle before this experiment:
Fresh vegetable juices (11-4 pm) and a raw meal at night (5-7 pm)  - fruit first followed by a raw soup or raw pasta, sometime raw nondairy coconut ice cream if I'd want dessert.
1-2x a week average I'd add in egg yolks and Or raw salmon or tuna.


I've repleaced my dinner meal of vegan foods with only raw fish - salmon (2nights) and raw tuna steak the other night. 3 days total. I still enjoy raw juices (no fiber)  when I want through out the day, I rarely felt hungry until late in the day so this is natural to me. All 3 nights dinners were 8 -9 oz raw fish each night with full fat mayo.

RESULTS- Felt completely satiated, no fiber "fullness" which was unusual , did not feel hungry before bed like I usually do, Slept nicely (improvement from vegan), woke up a little nauseous, no bowel movements in these 3 days ( felt ick left side of torso, not sure what eoykd have happened if I kept going, what's normal in that kind of raw but no fiber lifestyle of a female?) .


Followed this by :
night 1 and 2 to eating only fruits for dinner ( veggie juice in day hours). Helped bowels move, got rid of some fruit I'd have to toss if I didn't eat it 👍🏻 BUT Omg 😦 Up all night with gas, discomfort, could easily eat a snack before bed but did not bc I felt waterlogged and fiber-full...
day 3 (last night) I did a few oranges then a raw carrot soup. Still discomfort in intestines and not satiated nearly as much, gas and not sleeping well overnight.

I'm shocked at the difference of not eating fiber but more raw protein and animal fats does for this body of mind over all. I'm planning on going back to no fiber or very low fiber, but I'd like to have my bowels moving without issue if that's going to be more my lifestyle.


I have deer meat in the freezer and more raw sushi grade fish and our neighbors chicken eggs on hand.
* If I eat eggs for meal I'd like to have the  protein (whites) too BUT is that a disaster to poach the whites? I tried raw whites and gagged most times and it's not satiating raw either.

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2017, 03:53:25 am »
I eat plenty of fruit in my diet. I used to try and eat more fiber. I even supplemented with it but now I only eat as much fiber rich fruits and vegetables as I care for. I don't think there's any point in intentionally restricting fiber as if it was something bad for you. It provides places for good gut flora. On the other hand I didn't feel all that great when I was intentionally forcing more fiber upon myself than I wanted just because I thought it was good for me. It didn't help me to loose weight either. I think I crave more fruit since I stopped supplementing with fiber. I still juice oranges in my juicer with the skins on. Not so much for the fiber as for the additional vitamins and essential oils it contains. I think raw egg whites are gross. Maybe if I weren't getting enough meat protein I might eat them but I don't worry about throwing them away. Even my dogs wont eat them; so how good can they be?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 07:26:19 am by surfsteve »

Online TylerDurden

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2017, 04:03:18 am »
Unfortunately, the more toxic and unhealthy one's lifestyle/diet etc. was prior to going rawpalaeo, the more likely one is to have to undergo various detoxes. Some RVAFers like to first undergo a long water-fast prior to going rawpalaeo, as they claim that helps the body get rid of toxins beforehand. Also, edible sundried (french green?) clay has helped some of us to detox the poisons out at a faster rate.

My own case was quite normal, and a little  similiar to your above example. I was in really bad ill-health for much of my life, with inflammation affecting virtually every part of my body(due to a slow-acting dairy-intolerance/allergy. In my 20s, I went cooked-palaeo but that failed to solve the awful stomach-aches I got from eating any cooked animal food, then I went vegan then raw vegan, then Fruitarian and finally Sproutarian over a total 5 year period or so, before finally going rawpalaeo. I first went on a fake-Instincto diet for 2-3 months of raw, albeit intensively farmed meat/eggs and supermarket plant food and similiar raw "junk" food, which had no effect. Once I went fully rawpalaeo, though, I suddenly got green diarrhea  in the first 2-3 days of being a RVAFer, forcing me to visit the toilet/bathroom every half an hour or less. After that, I would get mild detox symptoms(like a mild flu) every 2 to 4 months, lasting from 2 to 7 days, and these would continue for  the next 2 years, with them gradually reducing in terms of severity, duration and frequency until they stoped after c. 2 years. Of course, I still get minor detox symptoms if I eat any cooked foods, with me feeling like having a hangover if I eat more than a small amount, but this is reasonably rare. Some RVAFers report no initial detoxes, while others have reported initial detoxes lasting up to 6 weeks.

With a detox, generally speaking, one should feel slightly better after the detox than before the detox. Of course, negative symptoms might not be due to detox. For example, 2 of the biggest problems RVAFers have involve raw dairy and raw veggie juices. Many turn out to be allergic to raw dairy or develop nutritional deficiencies after consuming too much raw veggie juice(1 litre or more a day). In my own case, I bought a juicer after 3 years of going RVAF, and suddenly found that I got green diarrhea within half an hour of consuming any raw veggie juice(though freshly-squeezed fruit-juice was fine). Of course, everyone is different.

Other suggestions:- Avoid the, er  " full fat mayo"(  ???    ??? ???), try raw wildcaught seafood rather than  farmed fish like most salmon.

and:-

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/important-info-for-newbies/sticky-advice-for-newbies-wishing-to-slowly-ease-into-a-raw-animal-food-diet/

Offline Pumkin

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2017, 04:25:05 am »
I eat plenty of fruit in my diet. I used to try and eat more fiber. I even supplemented with it but now I only eat as much fiber rich fruits and vegetables as I care for. I don't think there's any point in intentionally restricting fiber as if it was something bad for you. It provides places for good gut flora. On the other hand I didn't feel all that great when I was intentionally forcing more fiber upon myself than I wanted just because I thought it was good for me. It didn't help me to loose weight either. I think I crave more fruit since I stopped supplementing with fiber. I still juice oranges in my juicer with the skins on. Not so much for the fiber as for the additional vitamins and essential oils it contains. I think raw egg yolks are gross. Maybe if I weren't getting enough meat protein I might eat them but I don't worry about throwing them away. Even my dogs wont eat them; so how good can they be?

Oh I love raw yolks, taste like creamy vanilla filling to me.

I think it's great what your doing, from my experience at least, it appears very balanced. I dont enjoy going to extremes, but living vegan then raw vegan maybe extreme ??!
I'm not sure how much fiber your getting a day from fruit and veg. Being a man your body will respond differently too.
I do juice more produce than I could eat (micronutrients 👌🏼) , for whatever reason I feel best on juices but I do enjoy eating to where living on juices doesn't appeal to me completely, social settings too I've got to consider.   

Offline Pumkin

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2017, 04:32:26 am »


In my 20s, I went cooked-palaeo but that failed to solve the awful stomach-aches I got from eating any cooked animal food, then I went vegan then raw vegan, then Fruitarian and finally Sproutarian over a total 5 year period or so, before finally going rawpalaeo.




and:-

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/important-info-for-newbies/sticky-advice-for-newbies-wishing-to-slowly-ease-into-a-raw-animal-food-diet/

Wow... sproutaterian! Were you starving?
I really enjoy reading your journal btw Tyler.
Yes, I'm going to have to figure out how to do wild salmon, it's not fresh enough here but I looked online a little bit ago and found places that ship sushi grade wild fish to your house 👍🏻

Online TylerDurden

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2017, 05:15:35 am »
At the time, I was grateful for the fact that going raw vegan and then fruitarian stopped my extremely painful stomach-aches but the trouble was that these 100% no-animal-food-diets caused me to develop really powerful hunger-pangs where I would buy 5 to 7  kgs of raw organic fruit a day and still feel ravenously hungry afterwards.So, I read that sprouts contained much higher levels of nutrients than usually found in raw plant foods and I hoped that they would replace the nutrients I was obviously missing, along with the Klamath Lake blue-green-algae supplements among 50 other herbs/bach remedies  etc. I felt slightly better as a result but it didn't solve my hunger or my health-problems. I only went rawpalaeo as the only other remaining diet I hadn't tried was Breatharian and I wasn't quite that desperate at the time.

Another option is to search rawpaleodietforum on the main page search box to find others with similiar experiences  to see what worked for them.

Offline Pumkin

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2017, 05:22:33 am »
At the time, I was grateful for the fact that going raw vegan and then fruitarian stopped my extremely painful stomach-aches but the trouble was that these 100% no-animal-food-diets caused me to develop really powerful hunger-pangs where I would buy 5 to 7  kgs of raw organic fruit a day and still feel ravenously hungry afterwards.

Another option is to search rawpaleodietforum on the main page search box to find others with similiar experiences  to see what worked for them.

Yes! I didn't realize how hungry I was until I tried this experiment with replacing my raw vegan meal with a raw animal meal. I've still got some mental hurdles (meat =acidic body etc...) to overcome.

I'm so greatful for this group, SO GRATEFUL!

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2017, 07:33:15 am »
Oh I love raw yolks, taste like creamy vanilla filling to me.

I think it's great what your doing, from my experience at least, it appears very balanced. I dont enjoy going to extremes, but living vegan then raw vegan maybe extreme ??!
I'm not sure how much fiber your getting a day from fruit and veg. Being a man your body will respond differently too.
I do juice more produce than I could eat (micronutrients 👌🏼) , for whatever reason I feel best on juices but I do enjoy eating to where living on juices doesn't appeal to me completely, social settings too I've got to consider.

Sorry I love raw egg yolks too. I meant to say whites and went back and corrected myself. I like green vegetable juices but if I do to many of them I feel malnourished on them. Volume wise I eat pretty balanced between fruit, meat and vegetables, in that order but calorie wise most of them come from meat, in particular meat fat.

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2017, 07:38:55 am »
At the time, I was grateful for the fact that going raw vegan and then fruitarian stopped my extremely painful stomach-aches but the trouble was that these 100% no-animal-food-diets caused me to develop really powerful hunger-pangs where I would buy 5 to 7  kgs of raw organic fruit a day and still feel ravenously hungry afterwards.So, I read that sprouts contained much higher levels of nutrients than usually found in raw plant foods and I hoped that they would replace the nutrients I was obviously missing, along with the Klamath Lake blue-green-algae supplements among 50 other herbs/bach remedies  etc. I felt slightly better as a result but it didn't solve my hunger or my health-problems. I only went rawpalaeo as the only other remaining diet I hadn't tried was Breatharian and I wasn't quite that desperate at the time.

Another option is to search rawpaleodietforum on the main page search box to find others with similiar experiences  to see what worked for them.
I can identify with that. I've tried the same things myself. Even breatharian. It didn't last very long though. I was a vegetarian over 15 years  but I always felt better when I ate a little meat. I find I can eat and crave meat a lot more if it's raw. Still haven't learned to like it without the salt and spices unless it's in the form of a smoothie and even then I need to spice up tripe and kidney in order to get it down.

Though it may be coming. I am eating some steak tartare right now and it tastes over salted and over spiced to me. Guess it's time to cut back on them.

Offline Pumkin

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2017, 11:45:27 pm »
Still haven't learned to like it without the salt and spices unless it's in the form of a smoothie and even then I need to spice up tripe and kidney in order to get it down.

Though it may be coming. I am eating some steak tartare right now and it tastes over salted and over spiced to me. Guess it's time to cut back on them.

Okay, what's the smoothie? I began to eat only plants when I was 14 yrs old bc meat just grossed me out- very mental but also the quality was factory farmed animals so no wonder I felt better without it.

isn't some salt needed if one eats animal foods, Or is that just low carb?


Online TylerDurden

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2017, 12:21:29 am »
There are natural salts in high-quality raw meats. Blood has a lot of natural salts in it. For some reason, I never got any benefit at all from drinking the blood available in my vacuum-packed raw, grassfed muscle-meats/organ-meats. However, whenever I had raw blood from raw wild game such as raw wild hare carcasses in vacuum-wrapped form, I would feel a tremendous, vigorous  rise in overall vitality , lasting for hours afterwards. Sabertooth also has lots of posts, extolling the benefits of raw blood and its natural salts/ingredients.

I gather that many herbivores, such as elephants etc., need to lick rock-salts etc. in order to get their needed salt-intake.

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2017, 01:00:36 am »
Okay, what's the smoothie? I began to eat only plants when I was 14 yrs old bc meat just grossed me out- very mental but also the quality was factory farmed animals so no wonder I felt better without it.

isn't some salt needed if one eats animal foods, Or is that just low carb?
A smoothie is usually made in a blender. I use a food processor to blend it up because the food gets in the bearings of my blender and causes friction in the bearings causing the food to get warm. I use factory farmed organ meats because that's all I can afford and have had excellent results from them.  I blend them with frozen chunks of meat and drink them ice cold.

Liver smoothie: One quarter pound slice of frozen liver and a half cup of water

Sweetbread smoothies: One quarter pound of frozen sweetbreads and half a cup of water

Heart smoothie: Same

I used to make tripe and kidney smoothies the same but now I add salt, pepper, lemon juice, cilantro and onion powder or minced garlic.

I used to make my smoothies with pineapple juice but found they gave me really smelly gas and bowel movements. Made the taste better though.

Sometimes I add raw apple cider vinegar to my smoothies.

Almost forgot. Rocky Mountain Oyster smoothies: One quarter pound of beef testicles, one half cup of water. Some hot sauce, minced garlic, cilantro, salt and pepper. Sometimes I make them with plain water. Sometimes I add raw apple cider vinegar.

I drink as much as 6 or 7 various smoothies a day. Lately I only been drinking an average of one or two a day. Feel better when I drink more of them!

Offline Pumkin

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2017, 10:26:46 am »
Thanks for sharing those smoothie recipes, they sound like what A.V. Use to make.

Thats the thing, I can only stomsch so much meat - that's why I end up back on all fruit after awhile if I add in too much too fast. It turns off my appetite for food at all.

Though right now I'm looking forward to going back to playing with only animal foods for my evening meal.
I'm not sleeping through the night on raw vegan dinners currently but I did get a significant download when I was awake in the middle of the night last night,,,,but those can wait to morning too if I'd just stop waking up like it's 7am when it's really 3am!!!

Tomorrow night I'm going to eat the avocados and see if that fat helps me sleep through the night like the sushi steaks did those 3 nights. 

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2017, 12:02:23 pm »
Weird. I eat a lot of fruit at night and throughout the day and meat in the morning and afternoon. I used to only eat between the hours of noon and 8 pm and fast the rest of the day but since going raw I been getting pretty laxed on those rules.

I don't know what the ideal ratio you are seeking is. I been eating a lot of fruit because it's in season and really cheap right now. Especially watermelon because my kidneys were hurting earlier but as soon as the price goes back up I will probably quit buying it. I believe there is a good ratio I just don't know what it is. For one thing, are you asking calorie wise or volume? I guess you would have to establish that before you could establish an ideal ratio. Probably more than a ratio of fiber to meat is how you are getting that fiber. I don't eat grains and get all mine from fruit and vegetables. Mostly fruit lately.

Maybe it's not so bad only buying what's in season. That way I don't eat the same thing for too long. Like I said I mainly do it for economics.

Offline Pumkin

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2017, 11:08:31 pm »
Weird. I eat a lot of fruit at night and throughout the day and meat in the morning and afternoon. I used to only eat between the hours of noon and 8 pm and fast the rest of the day but since going raw I been getting pretty laxed on those rules.

I don't know what the ideal ratio you are seeking is. I been eating a lot of fruit because it's in season and really cheap right now. Especially watermelon because my kidneys were hurting earlier but as soon as the price goes back up I will probably quit buying it. I believe there is a good ratio I just don't know what it is. For one thing, are you asking calorie wise or volume? I guess you would have to establish that before you could establish an ideal ratio. Probably more than a ratio of fiber to meat is how you are getting that fiber. I don't eat grains and get all mine from fruit and vegetables. Mostly fruit lately.

Maybe it's not so bad only buying what's in season. That way I don't eat the same thing for too long. Like I said I mainly do it for economics.

it looks like my body wants a shift so I'm trying new things since raw vegan the way I was doing it is not serving me anymore. End of January I started to play around with the master fast system/mfs ( grape juice and lemon along with some of Dr. Morse's herbs to assist body, I still had my fruit based dinner at nt  ). I used mfs to get myself off the holiday snacking I did on foods are usually don't eat. It was easy to transition back to my normal way of life which is juices all day with a big meal with the family in the evening .  But my meal has always been Raw and vegan -no grains whatsoever.  I used animal foods like a  condinment when I notice drawing towards them which is rare.
Ive never ever been a dogmatic vegan.

 I did melon island Lately (only eating various melons for a period of time -2-3 wks I went )  and I think that's what put me over. I realized Sleep was disturbed, it's like my energy was zapped! so I went to two dif Chinese acupuncturist (bc the first one was very rude ) but both of them, not knowing each other, diagnosed me the same way a "spleen QI deficiency . "

When I eat fiber lately I just feel waterlogged imediatly afterwards on melons or "full" on other fruits but not nourished👎🏻. I juice and I feel nourished👍🏻. I eat protein/fat (raw meat) I feel satisfied👍🏻.  I know all the fruity Internet people brag about their fruit bellies but really that's not comfortable even if it's just 30 minutes of it - I'd rather feel satisfied  and sleep well .  I sleep a lot less when I'm fruit-based which many think is a good thing but when the acupuncturist noticed right off that my sleep is disturbed too , I don't think that something I want to continue with.

I could eat several times a day a piece of fruit here and there (wai diet like) then fish for dinner but really I've done it before and it's distracting.  But I haven't given fruit juice, like you and your orange juice, a real chance to incorporate in with having a animal food meal in the evening .

 I haven't played with higher fats ( unfortunately there's not much protein in avocado) so I'll try that tonight.

Really, like your staying in season and not overspending on foods out of season, i'm just slowly emptying out my fridge of what I still have before I do this experiment again of juice in the day with a meat/fish meal for the evening.  I know myself I won't cut out fiber, at least not forever, but during my experimenting  and shifting I'm willing to play with just about anything .
 

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2017, 01:36:39 am »
Maybe instead of trying to figure out a ratio it's all about balance. What works one day might not work under a different set of circumstances on another day. I think if it were as simple as sticking to a ratio or formula that we would have figured it out a long time ago and we'd all be healthy all of the time. But we are not. I am feeling good right now on an anti kidney stone diet but I suppose there will come a time when it will be doing me more harm than good!

Offline Pumkin

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2017, 03:13:23 am »
Maybe instead of trying to figure out a ratio it's all about balance. What works one day might not work under a different set of circumstances on another day. I think if it were as simple as sticking to a ratio or formula that we would have figured it out a long time ago and we'd all be healthy all of the time. But we are not. I am feeling good right now on an anti kidney stone diet but I suppose there will come a time when it will be doing me more harm than good!

Yes exactly - balance.

So you had kidney stones and the way your eating, even with all the meat, is helping?
My brother in law goes to the the hospital yearly for kidney stones, but he does a body builder type of diet usually (eats fastfood burgers etc...though) and if I told him to eat raw & fatty meat/organs instead hed never believe me nor want to believe it. 🤷🏻???

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2017, 03:44:00 am »
I often wonder whether my high meat diet contributes to kidney stones. It probably does. But like you agree with. Balance is key. So I guess I just need to consume a lot more herbs responsible for dissolving them and more liquids to flush them out if I'm going to maintain good health on it. Especially living out here in the desert. I should be fine as long as I reduce my intake of them this winter or don't go to such an extreme that I deplete my body of minerals. I think the key lies in learning to recognize the signs and correct them in time. I believe, much like riding a bicycle or surfing this is something that needs to be learned on an instinctive level before you can accomplish.

Offline Pumkin

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2017, 03:29:17 am »
I often wonder whether my high meat diet contributes to kidney stones. It probably does. But like you agree with. Balance is key. So I guess I just need to consume a lot more herbs responsible for dissolving them and more liquids to flush them out if I'm going to maintain good health on it. Especially living out here in the desert. I should be fine as long as I reduce my intake of them this winter or don't go to such an extreme that I deplete my body of minerals. I think the key lies in learning to recognize the signs and correct them in time. I believe, much like riding a bicycle or surfing this is something that needs to be learned on an instinctive level before you can accomplish.

Oh, I was under the assumption that bc you have your animal protein "raw" the kidney stones are no longer an issue or no longer forming?

I wish there wasn't so much bias (on various sides) on the animal food topic for humans and if it really does harm us when eating in certain quantities etc.... I'm sure cooked doesn't have the same results as uncooked foods regusrldss of what it is.


Online TylerDurden

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2017, 04:16:28 am »
Heat-derived toxins from cooking  such as advanced glycation end products are heavily implicated in kidney diseases:-

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016372581730044X

There might be a possibility of eventual kidney-stone-formation for someone who has been  long-term on an 100% all-raw-animal-food-diet, if the relevant person was not adapted to it, but  for RVAFers in general it is not an issue.

Offline surfsteve

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2017, 05:32:52 am »
To my knowledge kidney disease and kidney stones are two completely different things. I've read it's common to develop stones after detoxifying to rapidly because  the junk that is cleaned out of your body can get backed up in your kidneys and other organs. Looking back it's probably a good idea to detoxify kidneys and other organs first before starting any kind of cleanse. Probably a lot like starting out with an empty trash can before you go around cleaning your house. I would think that kidney disease would be more like having a hole in your trash can with trash constantly falling out and messing up all the cleaning you are doing.

Offline Pumkin

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2017, 07:06:17 am »
TYLER - thank you for the link. I do remember that now about glycation, didn't link it to kidneys but the whole system and cancer.

I think your a great person to point me to viable research/info on the human species digestive system
 from mouth to anus and what's our true species specific diet based on that?  I know we're not herbivores from experience and common sense, but coniferous vegetables (?) even those seem not ideal unless we cook them and that's not natural either, fruits super easy in my experience, and do we in fact easily break down more than a few bites (quantity?) of animal organs, muscle meats,  fish, chicken and if meats what our systems are designed to eat is raw the only way it likes it etc... I recently heard Nora Gedgaudas interviewed on her new book and she stated our stomachs are designed specifically to be breaking down meats shown by the level of acid our stomachs contain.  Yet I've seen the the teeth argument that we have same teeth and intestinal length as frugavores (So only insects and by accident)   🤦🏻???🙉
Like you guys, I've had a long time of eating only plants, or fruits, or juicing

Online TylerDurden

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2017, 01:58:44 pm »
I would state that we humans are omnivores. Granted, some people like the Inuit are genetically adapted to 100% all-animal-diets, but most, imo, do not thrive permanently on such a diet. Maybe some human ethnic types may thrive better on diets almost wholly vegan diets(Southern Indians?), but 100% vegan does not seem to work either.

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2017, 12:26:12 am »
  Yet I've seen the the teeth argument that we have same teeth and intestinal length as frugavores (So only insects and by accident)   🤦🏻???🙉
Like you guys, I've had a long time of eating only plants, or fruits, or juicing

Science has drawn the wrong conclusion in this regard...because many frugavore's especially when talking of our proto primate ancestors had originally evolved from insectivorian carnivorous tree weasels, that eventually became adapted to fruit heavy diets as they co-evolved with the fruiting trees....So if you go back far enough, fruit eating mammals evolved from carnivorous creatures who lived before a time the fist fruit trees grew.

We waxed and waned through our evolutionary history and from the most part we are true omnivores...but there seems to have been a dramatic shift away from the fruitarian heavy monkey way of living, toward the apex hunter gatherer meat based diet, that lead right up to the emergence of modern man.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 12:34:52 am by sabertooth »
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Offline Pumkin

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Re: Experimenting animal & produce ratio (fiber)
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2017, 03:08:13 am »
 Thank you Tyler and Sabertooth.

I completely see that omnivores would likely be the conclusion based on our history as we currently see it.

 What I'm uncertain about is how many grams/oz of animal foods a day or week or month etc...(body weight and sex likly factor into it) is needed for body to "thrive?"

Have they ever done legit studies on that? 

There's so much propaganda/bias it's hard to know. I have gone by my body all these yrs but also my mind as of late bc vegans the cool thing now. I've  primarily been eating vegan most my life, I'm 41. i'm not dogmatic though, I've always just wanted to do what's meant for my body and so my experimenting with animal foods, the healthy animals, is minumum.  But like this experiment has proven to me I feel so much better eating raw fish than I do eating a bowl of fruit .


 

 

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