Author Topic: Best forms of calcium except dairy for good bone development in growing toddlers  (Read 1623 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline norawnofun

  • Elder
  • ****
  • Posts: 329
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
There are 7 different types of calcium. calcium citrate, malate, lactate, oxalate, carbonate, calcium citrate malate and calcium gluconate. Oxalate is definitely the worst form, but I wonder which types of calcium do sardines, salmon bones or bone marrow have. Would these be better than the calcium in dairy?

What would be the best type of calcium for a growing toddler if you do not want to use dairy. Would dissolving bones in vinegar like sabertooth be the best way to get calcium. Or eating marrow? I read that egg shells are not that good (calcium carbonate). So what´s the best form for developing well growing bones, if you also have adequate levels of Vitamin D and K2, as this seems to be important.

Offline political atheist

  • Warrior
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
    • View Profile
eggshells dissolved  in apple cider vinegar or
carrot juice or
or comfrey

Offline norawnofun

  • Elder
  • ****
  • Posts: 329
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Carrot does not seem to have high calcium levels. How do you come to this conclusion? Comfrey I am not familiar with, why would u think its good? Looking up on eggshells i find that they are Calcium carbonate, which is inorganic in mineral water and also found in rocks and shells. It´s also used as an antacid and can cause poor digestion. Especially in people with low gastric acid production. One study showed more gastric output https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/873325 though. Apparently it´s also found in dark green vegetables. One reason why vegans might mess up on their diet, among other things, is the high intake of "healthy" dark leafy greens and vegetables. Since you will definitely lower HCI due to the lack of animal products on a vegan diet, eating something that surpresses HCI even more does not seem to be a smart idea. And giving eggshells to a toddler might be harmful for a not yet fully developed digestive system.

I also found that Calcium lactate, which can be found in hard cheeses on the occuring white cheese cristals is used as an antacid, so eating that, if you have low HCI, might be another bad idea and another reason why ppl on low HCI do not tolerate dairy well, at least some types of dairy.

Offline Qondrar_The_Redeemer

  • Buffalo Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
    • View Profile
Bone marrow and bones themselves are the best source of calcium. Bones have much higher calcium levels than any other food but are probably going to be harder to eat, especially for a growing toddler. You could try using very small bones, or grinding them down to to dust/bone meal. Personally, I would recommend bone marrow, but it's your choice. I would also suggest that you keep the bones raw if you were to eat them.

Both bone marrow and bones have a type of calcium known as calcium phosphate/calcium hydroxylapatite.This is also the main form of calcium coming from cow’s milk. Bones have around 1000-3000% of the RDA per 100 grams, while bone marrow has around 30% (mostly as much as dairy). Absorption of calcium also depends on what else you eat, and your own body's ability to absorb it. There are certain foods that inhibit calcium absorption. Anti-Nutrients like Phytic acid and Oxalates bind with calcium, while others such as Lectins, Saponins, Tannins (inhibition of digestive enzymes and bind to minerals), Gluten, Chaconine and others can cause various other gut related issues, lowering absorption.

Bone marrow also has some other unique properties which make it favorable compared to the rest in my view.

I myself do eat a lot of bone marrow and some bones very rarely, so calcium has never been an issue for me.

Since I noticed you were talking about Vitamin D and K2, various cheeses and other dairy products can have high amounts of K2 and some D3, although your best source of K2 from a non fermented food would be liver, as that has high amounts of it (150-500% of the RDA per 100 grams). Liver along with fish (fish liver is the highest source in nature that has been measured) would be the best source of natural D3 in food.

Offline norawnofun

  • Elder
  • ****
  • Posts: 329
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Thanks a lot for the great reply. I think it´s important to have an alternative and better source of calcium than dairy. Even if you raise a child on raw dairy, it will likely get hooked up on it and once it won´t have access to it, it will resort to pasteurized dairy which is available everywhere. That will onset all kinds of health problems. Then beside the opioids, you have estrogen, the a2 issue, over consumption of calcium, among other things. Raising a dairy limited or dairy free child would therefore be a much better way to prevent disease I think. But that´s another topic.

I also think that bone marrow would be a great source, also because of its high fat content. And I did remember that it had some special nutrients, but i can´t remember what that was. One thing that I remember thought is that when sv3rige consumed it raw once, apparently he became pretty ill and had to go to hospital for 2 weeks as far as I can remember. I wonder why it could have caused such havoc? I know that consuming it from a healthy animal would be preferable, but eating raw conventional beef does not seem to be so much of an issue than consuming raw bone marrow? Is there something that one needs to be cautious with when it comes to eating it raw?

Regarding eating the whole bones, the best way seems to pressure cook them. Apparently it takes only around 30+ min to get fish bones soft enough to be eaten https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/10439/how-to-cook-a-fish-to-make-its-bone-as-soft-as-those-in-sardines I could not wait 3 days in a crock pot like sabertooth does, that would take far too long. And when you say that Bones have 1000-3000% of the RDA per 100 grams, to which bones are you refering to? Bones from animals such as cow and lamb, or also fish?

Offline smokeyquartz

  • Trapper
  • **
  • Posts: 56
    • View Profile
Just wanted to add to the discussion that some believe copper is as important as calcium when it comes to bone strength.

There are studies on pubmed showing that copper is necessary for tooth and bone density, and a deficiency or inadequacy of copper leads to weaker bones.

One to read is "Copper deficit as a potential pathogenic factor of reduced bone mineral density and severe tooth wear," in Osteoporosis Int. 2014 Feb; 25(2) 447-54. PMID:
    23797848

Copper would be in liver and internal organs. 

Interesting to note, it says in the results section there was no difference in calcium level in enamel, only copper was low in the patients with severe tooth wear compared to controls.


Offline PaganGoy

  • Warrior
  • ****
  • Posts: 235
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Bone marrow and brain have often been said by Aajanous and sv3rige to be the most toxin deposited areas industrial poisons will go to in an animal.
I remember sv3rige or frank also saying brain is a great source of d3.
Bone marrow and placenta apparently also have stem cells.

Offline Qondrar_The_Redeemer

  • Buffalo Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
    • View Profile
Thanks a lot for the great reply. I think it´s important to have an alternative and better source of calcium than dairy. Even if you raise a child on raw dairy, it will likely get hooked up on it and once it won´t have access to it, it will resort to pasteurized dairy which is available everywhere. That will onset all kinds of health problems. Then beside the opioids, you have estrogen, the a2 issue, over consumption of calcium, among other things. Raising a dairy limited or dairy free child would therefore be a much better way to prevent disease I think. But that´s another topic.

I also think that bone marrow would be a great source, also because of its high fat content. And I did remember that it had some special nutrients, but i can´t remember what that was. One thing that I remember thought is that when sv3rige consumed it raw once, apparently he became pretty ill and had to go to hospital for 2 weeks as far as I can remember. I wonder why it could have caused such havoc? I know that consuming it from a healthy animal would be preferable, but eating raw conventional beef does not seem to be so much of an issue than consuming raw bone marrow? Is there something that one needs to be cautious with when it comes to eating it raw?

Regarding eating the whole bones, the best way seems to pressure cook them. Apparently it takes only around 30+ min to get fish bones soft enough to be eaten https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/10439/how-to-cook-a-fish-to-make-its-bone-as-soft-as-those-in-sardines I could not wait 3 days in a crock pot like sabertooth does, that would take far too long. And when you say that Bones have 1000-3000% of the RDA per 100 grams, to which bones are you refering to? Bones from animals such as cow and lamb, or also fish?

Sv3rige was eating a lot of different things at the time, so I wouldn't be so sure it was the bone marrow. The chicken he was eating was probably a likelier source, although Campylobacter is present in cattle, swine, and birds. In most people, the illness lasts for 2–10 days. It is classified as invasive/inflammatory diarrhea, also described as bloody diarrhea or dysentery. Most do not experience complications as Sv3rige did, those generally occur in young children (< 1 year of age) and immunocompromised people.

Anecdotally, I and quite a few others have consumed large quantities of bone marrow and have never gotten sick. I have tried lower quality marrow in the past, the worst of which was completely inedible and disgusting. I'm sure it's possible to get ill from a sick animal, but as long as you listen to your instincts, the claims of getting sick from bone marrow because Sv3rige supposedly did are completely overblown. Obviously it's much better to eat healthy organs than sick ones, more so than muscle meat. You can eat raw conventional muscle meat and not get sick. You can also eat raw conventional organ meats and not get sick. Should you? No, obviously, and some people do have higher chances of getting sick than others. It would be good to remember that among other things, Campylobacter species are sensitive to hydrochloric acid in the stomach, which would mean someone with weaker stomach acid would be more likely to get infected.

I would generally recommend avoiding low quality meat, unless you have no choice. Determining quality is not as simple as organic or non-organic, grass-fed or grain-fed etc... (although grass-fed or wild-game is still usually much better than your conventional meat). Usually, the better the taste, the better the quality. If it doesn't taste bad then it's probably fine to eat.

So, no, I wouldn't worry about bone marrow specifically. Treat it as you would all the other organs in terms of risk.

Bone marrow specifically has a much higher amount of Vitamin E than the other fats, it contains alkyglycerols, high levels of the hormone adiponectin, stem cells, the highest levels of calcium (other than bone) etc...

I have a topic in the science section titled "Detailed Analysis of All Nutrients (Vitamins/Minerals) in Animal Foods" which shows the levels of calcium and all the other nutrients, and has sources for them. Different animals and different bones in the body have varying levels of calcium, hence my 1000-3000% of the RDA per 100 grams estimate.

Regarding eating the bones, as I've already said, you can always use smaller bones or grind them down into bone meal. Larger bones are usually more trouble than they're worth. Although one possibility would be to dry them outside for over a month. Of course you could always cook them for long periods of time, but that would most likely have similar negative effects as other cooked food would.

Just wanted to add to the discussion that some believe copper is as important as calcium when it comes to bone strength.

There are studies on pubmed showing that copper is necessary for tooth and bone density, and a deficiency or inadequacy of copper leads to weaker bones.

One to read is "Copper deficit as a potential pathogenic factor of reduced bone mineral density and severe tooth wear," in Osteoporosis Int. 2014 Feb; 25(2) 447-54. PMID:
    23797848

Copper would be in liver and internal organs. 

Interesting to note, it says in the results section there was no difference in calcium level in enamel, only copper was low in the patients with severe tooth wear compared to controls.



This is the case with many vitamins and minerals, it's important to get them all as in many cases they are synergistic.

Bone marrow and brain have often been said by Aajanous and sv3rige to be the most toxin deposited areas industrial poisons will go to in an animal.
I remember sv3rige or frank also saying brain is a great source of d3.
Bone marrow and placenta apparently also have stem cells.
The best source of vitamin D3 (from what I've seen) is apparently in the organs, specifically the liver. Fish have a higher amount than terrestrial animals, and fish liver has the highest levels by far. I've not been able to find a good source for vitamin D3 in the brain.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk