Author Topic: RAF seems unnerving to mother.  (Read 7110 times)

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Offline Donnyten

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RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« on: October 31, 2009, 05:00:15 am »
In an nutshell, my mom thinks its foul, disgusting, inhumane and intolerable. Obviously the social conditioning of cooked food seems innately programmed to the point where she automatically rejects the idea of this type of lifestyle.   No matter how many links of information i send her, or no matter how many times i  try to talk to her, she never seems convinced.

Today's little episode started off with her putting a piece of paper on my door stating how chrons disease can be linked to unwashed produce and raw meat.   i read it, balled it up, threw it in the trash and said * I'm still eat'n raw meat" .  She said....................  " Thats very sad". i replied "  I think its sad how you wont research any of this and its sad how you are forming your conclusions based on your personal beliefs".  The dialog went on, at this point I urged her to do some research, and she kept flat out saying no. She then says * you have until December to make the shed as habitable as possible.  You should also live in the wild and live like an animal since you want to eat like one* when you get sick again ( i was sick with a fever, loose stools and a cold--dont know if any of this could have been linked to the raw meat i  was eating there's a thread on it) dont come to me asking for hep because you're not my responsibility.  I said "Fine".

At this point i'm extremely annoyed at her willful ignorance on the subject. I dont know what to do and i surely dont have any money to move out on my own at the moment. i kept telling her I wont eat the meat around her but she doesn't care.   I've been eating cooked spaghetti ever since i recovered from my sickness but more so because i dont know whether it was that time of the year or because it was due to the meat.    It was all grainfed Whole Foods meat. I will resume my raw meat intake once i have a job so i can purchase grassfed.  i urged her to do some research on the subject but, she says "nope".  so annoying, don't know what to do.. honestly i dont really care, i just want her to break loose from her social conditioning a little.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2009, 05:37:22 am »
You might want to respond more mildly next time.  For instance, when she makes some kind of point about food, you could just say "hmm.  I'll have to think about that."  or "That's food for thought.", or "that's something to consider."  Or simply smile and nod. If she's not going to behave rationally, then engaging her directly is probably not going to work too well.

Offline RawZi

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2009, 06:34:08 am »
At this point i'm extremely annoyed at her willful ignorance on the subject. I dont know what to do and i surely dont have any money to move out on my own at the moment. i kept telling her I wont eat the meat around her but she doesn't care.   I've been eating cooked spaghetti ever since i recovered from my sickness but more so because i dont know whether it was that time of the year or because it was due to the meat.

    You got it.  her IgnoreAnce is likely WillFull.  She is choosing to BeLieve what she's saying.  I don't think her number one intention is to be against you or against raw or anything like that, and even if it was, it probably won't help you to take what she says personally.  She may just not want to tell you her reasons out of fear.  She might be very afraid to support anything but what the government says in this.  There may be little or no way for you to allay such fears in that case.  It is sad that a mother word protect the government rather than her child, but who knows how damaged she is because of their rules or what has happened to her friends because of them?  If you can, feel sorry for her idiocy, avoid it, and do for yourself what you know is right.  Allow some boundaries.  Pushing her to agree with you might do more harm than good, not totally unlike her pushing you to agree with her is wrong.

    If she has enough to do this, maybe you can get her to take you out to a restaurant that serves some kind of raw meat. In that environment, she might even decide on her own to taste it.  That might be a first step either in her accepting the meat or accepting you.

    I hope you find a way to move out or whatever you need to do as soon as possible.  She may not realize how uncomfortable you are.

    Why spaghetti?  I know it's inexpensive and has no fiber, but just curious as to what you say.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2009, 06:55:35 am »
Self experimentors like us are very rare.
Most people including our loved ones have beliefs about food.
Your mother only wants the best for you based on what she currently knows.

Since you are a dependent, you may wish to comply with eating your beef rare.  Get steaks instead of ground meat.

You may try to gently nudge your mom into learning more about raw paleo diet by printing out 1 page nuggets from this website or other raw paleo websites. Print 1 page success testimonials.

-------

My share of resistance came with every diet i tried: raw vegan no violent reactions, raw fruitarian people freaked out, and raw meats they only freak out with land animals until now.  Some still freak out when I feed my kids raw beef.

But I stay away from raw commercial pork and raw commercial chicken and freshwater farmed fish... I believe those are dirty animals.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 07:01:52 am by goodsamaritan »
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2009, 08:36:11 am »
Quote
i just want her to break loose from her social conditioning a little.
If it were me, I would let go of the desire to change her, and not let her desire to change me bother me. Then the source of frustration is gone. Live and let live is my motto--well, one of them. ;D
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Ioanna

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2009, 08:47:09 am »
I don't think there is anyone in my life that would not be 'unnerved' by the way I eat... I keep it to myself entirely. 


Offline Donnyten

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2009, 10:56:00 am »
Thanks for the responses, I really appreciate it.


 

  

    Why spaghetti?  I know it's inexpensive and has no fiber, but just curious as to what you say.


Well I have an acne problem. A lot of foods * particularly anything processed/refined or fried* tend to give me large  and very painful inflamed acne bumps a day or two after i consume them. Rice, baked chicken, beans, and spaghetti seem to be the only foods that dont break me out.    And also because i can buy spaghetti in abundance, yes, inexpensive and fillin' to the tummy. This is just another reason why I want to switch to a RAFD.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 11:04:19 am by Donnyten »

Offline Guittarman03

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2009, 03:09:16 pm »
I bet you could strike a bargain with her.  First, tell her you agree to no ground beef or chicken.  Tell her you will eat only beef steaks.  That will already make her feel better.  Next, tell yer that you will agree to cook just the very outside of the steak on very low heat so that it is lightly browned, all the bacteria is supposed to be on the outside anyways, right mom?  If you get thick steaks, you're getting like 97% raw.  That will give you the vast majority of all the benefits you can get from the diet anyways. 

The fact that you're getting raw animal products - even if you have the occasional spaghetti - is HUGE.  The main benefits of this diet (IMO) are derived from the removal of cooked fats, addition of live enzymes, and addition of raw fat/protein.  Carbs can be cooked or not, just don't overdo it. 

Also I might ask her:
 - Have you ever eaten cookie dough?  --well that has raw eggs in it
 - Have you ever eaten sushi?  --people get served sushi all the time.  You wouldn't mind if I was eating raw fish
 - What about raw oysters?
 - What about over easy eggs?

And last but not least, I know how difficult it can be to have an actual, calm conversation with a stubborn/ignorant person (even more so with Mom).  But if you lose your cool you won't get far... be warned, she knows your buttons may (will) try to push em - why mom's are like that I don't know.  Just do your best to keep things calm and rational, even if she's not, and try to strike a deal.

haha, maybe spend a few days in preparation, talking more extreme than she's used to.  Talk about eating egg shells, raw liver/organs, high meat, zero carb (sorry zc'ers), etc.  Give it a rest for a few days, and then go back and ASK her if yall can talk about a compromise.  She'll be so worried about you eating spoiled meat, that when you finally agree to just eat barely browned steaks, she'll prob be all sorts of gratefull that you're not talking crazy anymore.

Good luck.  Keep us posted.
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Offline majormark

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2009, 05:03:55 pm »
..... its sad how you are forming your conclusions based on your personal beliefs".  ...

lol, that was funny :)

It's clear (and understandable) that she does not trust you with diet advice. If someone came to you, out of the blue, and told you that eating concrete is healthy and show you some research, you'll at least ask "who is this guy ?".

In these situations and especially since you don't have a great deal of influence over her you could be better off taking it slow with this kind of thing. For example I only eat butter and maybe egg yolks if I'm around someone who is not familiar with RAF.


Offline DeadRamones

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2009, 07:38:29 pm »
guitarman pretty much summed it up. By compromising, eventually she probably wouldn't mind you just eating it raw instead of rare.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2009, 02:35:48 am »
Well I have an acne problem. A lot of foods * particularly anything processed/refined or fried* tend to give me large  and very painful inflamed acne bumps a day or two after i consume them. Rice, baked chicken, beans, and spaghetti seem to be the only foods that dont break me out.    And also because i can buy spaghetti in abundance, yes, inexpensive and fillin' to the tummy. This is just another reason why I want to switch to a RAFD.
That's strange. Wheat is a huge acne-breakout (among other symptoms) food for me and is more strongly connected to acne than almost any food besides possibly sugar, if I recall correctly from my past research (although dairy is strongly linked too--so if you add cheese to the spaghetti you give yourself a double-whammy). From the perspective of nearly any variety of Paleo diet, spaghetti is one of the most unhealthy foods on earth for humans. Why not eat a slightly less toxic but also inexpensive food? Most spaghetti is refined too. Do you eat whole-grain, non-wheat spaghetti or something?

My acne finally cleared up completely when I eliminated all plant foods from my diet. So if you are indeed going to try all-RAFD, perhaps it will work for you too.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 04:14:09 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline RawZi

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2009, 03:58:28 am »
..., if I recall correctly from my past research (although dairy is strongly linked too--so if you add cheese to the spaghetti you give yourself a double-whammy).

    I had been thinking of asking if there was a sauce with it.  Cooked tomato sauce should make the acne worse.  There's always blended extra virgin olive oil (EVOO), pignolias, spinach, basil and garlic, as pesto or just EVOO alone, maybe with some fine gray Celtic salt skipping the green, perhaps adding raw salt or oil cured olives.  The cheese people normally put on spaghetti is traditionally oversalted too, but at least raw most of the time. 

    My kid had acne and it went away by giving up organic dairy yogurt (wasn't really eating other dairy).

    Wheat was the first grain I really needed to give up, but everybody's different IMO.
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Offline Donnyten

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2009, 07:46:59 am »
That's strange. Wheat is a huge acne-breakout (among other symptoms) food for me and is more strongly connected to acne than almost any food besides possibly sugar, if I recall correctly from my past research (although dairy is strongly linked too--so if you add cheese to the spaghetti you give yourself a double-whammy). From the perspective of nearly any variety of Paleo diet, spaghetti is one of the most unhealthy foods on earth for humans. Why not eat a slightly less toxic but also inexpensive food? Most spaghetti is refined too. Do you eat whole-grain, non-wheat spaghetti or something?

My acne finally cleared up completely when I eliminated all plant foods from my diet. So if you are indeed going to try all-RAFD, perhaps it will work for you too.

How and what plant foods are linked to acne?  folk at acne.org would assume otherwise b/c of the nutrient density of fruit and veggies. Some claim it helps their acne  by making *green smoothies* or eating them whole but that never worked for me. Also why is spaghetti the most unhealthy amongst other foods?  aside from the cooked meat ( if you incorporate beef  into your spaghetti)

link to the pasta I use-http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/products/item.php?RID=347

W/ Ground beef ( grainfed)

Sauce-http://www.thedailyplate.com/nutrition-calories/food/trader-joes/organic-marinara-sauce

------------
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 07:53:04 am by Donnyten »

Offline Donnyten

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2009, 07:52:10 am »
I bet you could strike a bargain with her.  First, tell her you agree to no ground beef or chicken.  Tell her you will eat only beef steaks.  That will already make her feel better.  Next, tell yer that you will agree to cook just the very outside of the steak on very low heat so that it is lightly browned, all the bacteria is supposed to be on the outside anyways, right mom?  If you get thick steaks, you're getting like 97% raw.  That will give you the vast majority of all the benefits you can get from the diet anyways. 

The fact that you're getting raw animal products - even if you have the occasional spaghetti - is HUGE.  The main benefits of this diet (IMO) are derived from the removal of cooked fats, addition of live enzymes, and addition of raw fat/protein.  Carbs can be cooked or not, just don't overdo it. 

Also I might ask her:
 - Have you ever eaten cookie dough?  --well that has raw eggs in it
 - Have you ever eaten sushi?  --people get served sushi all the time.  You wouldn't mind if I was eating raw fish
 - What about raw oysters?
 - What about over easy eggs?

And last but not least, I know how difficult it can be to have an actual, calm conversation with a stubborn/ignorant person (even more so with Mom).  But if you lose your cool you won't get far... be warned, she knows your buttons may (will) try to push em - why mom's are like that I don't know.  Just do your best to keep things calm and rational, even if she's not, and try to strike a deal.

haha, maybe spend a few days in preparation, talking more extreme than she's used to.  Talk about eating egg shells, raw liver/organs, high meat, zero carb (sorry zc'ers), etc.  Give it a rest for a few days, and then go back and ASK her if yall can talk about a compromise.  She'll be so worried about you eating spoiled meat, that when you finally agree to just eat barely browned steaks, she'll prob be all sorts of gratefull that you're not talking crazy anymore.

Good luck.  Keep us posted.

thanks a lot.  I will give that a go.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2009, 08:35:59 am »
How and what plant foods are linked to acne?  
Dr. Loren Cordain is one of the world's leading experts on acne, as well as Paleolithic nutrition (though I don't agree with him on certain matters--he is more pro-plant and anti-animal-fat than me). He discusses those questions here http://www.dietaryacnecure.com/ and elsewhere. His diet greatly reduced my acne, but it wasn't until I eliminated all carb-containing plants and replaced them with animal fats and meats that my acne finally cleared up completely.

Quote
folk at acne.org would assume otherwise b/c of the nutrient density of fruit and veggies. Some claim it helps their acne  by making *green smoothies* or eating them whole but that never worked for me.
Has their acne cleared up completely without use of OTC or Px meds or supplements like mine has?

Quote
Also why is spaghetti the most unhealthy amongst other foods?
I haven't encountered this question before in my years of reading this and another Paleo forum (and some LC and IBS forums), since by the time most people get to one, they already know spaghetti is bad stuff, so I'm not sure where to start. It's kind of neat to encounter someone early in their nutritional journey for a change. How much do you know about Paleo diets? There are thousands of articles, books and videos on the hazards of wheat and other modern foods, but I don't want to bore you with a ton of links and references. If we can narrow down where you're getting the idea that spaghetti may be healthy or not-that bad, I may be able to give you a more focused and meaningful response.

Quote
link to the pasta I use-http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/products/item.php?RID=347
That spaghetti is mixed with spinach, which may dilute the wheat enough to avoid obvious acne breakout, but it still contains "Durum wheat semolina," which is refined wheat flour--the standard stuff that most spaghetti is made from.

Quote
W/ Ground beef ( grainfed)
It's good that you mix it with beef, the benefits of which may be offsetting the wheat flour enough to minimize acne breakout.

Quote
Sauce-http://www.thedailyplate.com/nutrition-calories/food/trader-joes/organic-marinara-sauce
I don't know this sauce's ingredients, but you may want to do some reading on Dr. Cordain's research on the relationship of tomatoes and other nightshades to autoimmune-related diseases and syndromes (of which acne is one).
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline RawZi

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2009, 12:41:59 pm »
    Eating whole plant foods my skin was good.  Eating Living Food LifestyleTM took care of the rest of the blackheads (as eating cooked paleo or cooked non whole plant made my skin bad).  Switching to high fat RAF my skin is not only clear, but plump and elastic like a small child.

    I was allergic to acne meds Px or otherwise.

    I found that artichoke spaghetti by DeBoles was much better for people with asthma than regular, organic, durum, whole wheat etc.  As long as much of the flour was non grain, it was better.

    Spinach flour could be worse.  See AV's writings.  Cooked green or yellow vegetables can make colored mucus and infection.  See for yourself. I have found truth in that.  Some acne has green or yellow puss, so this can be important.

    Cooked tomato combined with cooked wheat can help cause skin rashes, digestive problems, arthritis, brain allergies etc. 

    Other nightshades can make joint problems too.  Anne Marie Colbin's Food and Healing, 1986 she suspected nightshades cause cancer.  It was a good book.  I learned some things from it I still use.
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2009, 09:22:03 pm »
BTW, Donnten, I forgot to mention that Dr. Cordain was interviewed by Dan of acne.org at http://www.acne.org/interviews/2008/07/10/dr-cordain-phd-in-health/, if you haven't already heard the interview or read the transcript.

RawZi is quite right to point out the links between nightshades and other diseases of civilization like digestive problems and arthritis. For decades, if not centuries, patients have been mentioning this connection to their physicians and being told it's "an old wives' tale." The scientific consensus had also poo-pooed the connection and, since I am a fan of science, I tended to believe the scientific consensus and dismiss some signs that nightshades like tomatoes and bell peppers might be connected to some of my and my sister's health symptoms, unfortunately. Eventually, because of my own remaining stubborn acne (already greatly improved but requiring zinc supplementation or Px meds to keep it in hiding and I wanted to get off the supplements), IBS-C with D and other problems, I decided to put the folkloric nightshade connection to the test and found that my acne and IBS improved significantly, though not completely (complete remission did not occur until I also eliminated all fruits and nuts and kept veggies to a bare minimum and all nonstarchy), when I eliminated them from my diet. More recently scientific research has been confirming the connections and the scientific consensus has begun to crack.

Tomatoes contain natural toxins that act as natural insecticides and anti-fungal agents: tomato lectin and alpha tomatine. Tomato lectin and alpha tomatine can work together to increase gut permeability and contribute to “leaky gut syndrome,” which itself can contribute to IBS, arthritis and a host of modern syndromes and diseases.

The Centre for Drug Delivery Research in the UK and the Faculté des Sciences Pharmaceutiques in France state that "Tomato lectin (TL) is a bioadhesive glycoprotein that has been shown to bind selectively to the small intestine epithelium."
[html= http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T7W-3WMJSNY-3&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=fd27edca692b7072d14f7f8a2ee6bf28]Studies on the uptake of tomato lectin nanoparticles in everted gut sacs[/html]. Tomato lectin interacts with gastric parietal cells in patients with autoimmune gastritis (see http://jcs.biologists.org/cgi/content/abstract/95/4/563).

Here is an excerpt of a presentation by Dr. Cordain on MS and diet that discusses tomato lection and alpha tomatine:

How to Treat Multiple Sclerosis with Diet (multiple videos; covers the role of tomatoes in MS among other things)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhkmDHLCUEs

From the description: "Of Tomatoes, Vaccines and Autoimmune Disease - Tomatoes are almost universally considered to be healthy foods, though there are anecdotal reports that avoiding consumption of nightshade plants, including tomatoes, may improve symptoms in patients with rheumatoid arthritis and other autoimmune diseases.

In this cutting-edge report you'll learn about a component, tomato lectin, which has the capacity to interact with the immune system in a way that may promote autoimmune disease.  You'll also learn about another component of tomato, alpha tomatine, which can act as an adjuvant and boost the immune response to tomato lectin, and also increase gut permeability."

Here is Ashton Embry, the MS diet expert, discussing Dr. Cordain’s presentation:

The Role of Lectins from Grains and Legumes in the MS Disease Process
Ashton Embry
http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseaction=show&pageid=2344
 
"I want to summarize a number of important points that Dr Cordain made in his presentation. Some of them were new to me and they are most important for understanding why it is essential to avoid eating gluten grains and legumes as well as a few other types of foods including tomatoes. His work has also put the concept of the role of a leaky gut in MS in a new context and this also has ramifications for understanding how potentially problematic food and bacterial-derived protein fragments can cross the intestinal barrier and engage the immune system. Dr Cordain’s presentation is quite technical but to me it is imperative to understand how various proteins derived from foods can be part of the MS disease process on a molecular level. This provides a solid, science-based rationale for WHY it is critical to avoid foods such as legumes and grains if one wants to keep the MS disease process well controlled."

It was quite a shocker for me to learn that some of the foods that we were taught by scientific consensus and media hype to consider “superfoods” are not necessarily so super, and I’m sure it will be quite a shock to many other people as well and there will be enormous resistance to accepting this, unsurprisingly. We are on the cusp of a revolution. Such changes to the reigning order tend to be tumultuous.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Guittarman03

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2009, 03:43:01 am »
Pizza and french fries are the worst foods on the planet.

They combine the worst of cooked fats with carb overload.  Too bad pizza is my fav food of all time.
When you consume an organism it loses individuality, but its biological life never ends.  Digestion is merely a transfer of its life to mine.

Offline Ioanna

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2009, 04:33:13 am »
Quote
Pizza and french fries are the worst foods on the planet.

I thought it was doughnuts :D

This is the first time I am working somewhere with a 'break room' that people actually contribute to daily. I'm used to the coffee, tea, and water, but this is crazy!, even for SAD!  I can smell the sugar from around the corner!... especially on holidays, you wouldn't believe it! You name it, it's in there!

Offline RawZi

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Re: RAF seems unnerving to mother.
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2009, 07:00:27 am »
This is the first time I am working somewhere with a 'break room' that people actually contribute to daily. I'm used to the coffee, tea, and water, but this is crazy!, even for SAD!  I can smell the sugar from around the corner!... especially on holidays, you wouldn't believe it! You name it, it's in there!

    I'd believe it.  When I was getting diagnose with lupus, I munched on things like bags of organic raw spinach in breakroom, while another lady who had no physical deficit claimed she has "stomach lupus" and was bringing in homemade white flour white sugar cookies, eating commercial junk brand chocolate, commercial whitebread/commercial cooked ham sandwiches and drinking coffee claiming her diet had nothing to do with the state of her health and she would snidely ask me if I was just trying to live forever.  She did eventually apologize to me for lots of comments like that (in case you don't know cooked protein of just about any kind including flour causes problems for most "lupies").

    Getting back to mother topic, when I started eating raw meat, although the raw part seemed strange to my Mother, she was ever so grateful "I came to my senses" and started eating meat.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

 

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