Author Topic: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes  (Read 43276 times)

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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2009, 06:51:24 am »
So the safety concern and subsequent ban of mercury amalgam dentistry in Denmark, Norway and Sweden is unsubstantiated? Ocean mercury load aside (whether organically bound/complexed), for me (and many others), dental amalgams remain a safety risk and my intent is to minimise heavy metal exposure by having them correctly removed and the residue carefully chelated with the most natural means. Furthermore, on the matter of the oceans, aren't there many more inorganic/organic molecules in that ecosystem that weren't around at the time of our paleolithic/hominid genome development. I'm all for advocating these counter-counter arguments, but when there's some substance in the original argument, I don't easily dismiss it. Once again, I suppose efficacy rules and I do value your experiences/insights...

If you look at the hard data, you'll find that mercury produced via humans since the industrial age is a microscopic fraction of the total amount of natural mercury found in the Earth's oceans and elsewhere. So, if mercury is so toxic, one would naturally expect all the fish to have neurological issues not just today but in pre-palaeo times as well, which is absurd. What I find truly amusing though is that anti-mercury campaigners ignore such obvious facts such as that the oceans contain similiar tiny traces of all disssolved substances, including uranium. But they never seem to go on about the dangers of radioactivity in the world's oceans. I suppose that's because any claims re radioactivity in seafood would be easily debunked with geiger counters, but claims of nonexistent neurological defects are more difficult to counter.

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Danger of absolute perfection? I agree that there are no absolutes nor any true ideological definition of perfection, but I prefer to propose "best endeavour", particularly on account of those healing a chronic or terminal condition. Naturally, we recount stories of natural lifeforms trekking/migrating for large portions of their life to secure their optimal nutrition, so maybe in Western civilisation, this notion is skewed somewhat.

Well, I see your point, if you're in really bad shape it makes sense to try everything, even if you know that most methods will fail. I was much like that up to and early on in the diet.

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Awkward results and social complications? As The Doors' Jim Morrison said "Where's your will to be weird?" and maybe some other cliches. Ultimately, I only embraced the raw eating style on account of my subversiveness. Surely, living peoples' projections of what one is socially-accepted to do is undermining to one's own intuitive course? Aren't people doing what they desire like buying into destructive food industries, so they can satisfy their materialistic obligations projected upon them by their equally-soulless peers (a la covert peer pressure). Best to embrace intellectual anarchy to some extent, as a means for self-realisation (of course, be surrendering, hehe). Maybe there're some RAFers around here that take their raw animal meals to work in opaque lunch boxes, or try to gently introduce unsuspecting ones, I don't know...Tiny minds everywhere is my (non-judgemental, hehe) observation...
(http://www.insurgentdesire.org.uk/niceism.htm)

Well, I'm an anarchist too, I just think one has to be realistic sometimes. I mean, my life at work was  made easier at times because I compromised by bringing in  raw fruit and raw honeycomb for lunch-time  instead of raw meat(or "high-meat", for that matter!)

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I still wonder what your advice would be to someone experiencing acute biliary attacks with strong admonition from orthodox medicine to tear out the defective (and apparently needless, yet systemically critical) organ...;-))
If the organ was completely crippled(eg:- full-on  cirrhosis), then I'd imagine that liver-flushes and the like wouldn't be enough to solve the problem, so then I'd recommend surgery. Anything less damaging ought to be solved by diet. By all means carry on with the liver-flushes, I don't think they do much harm (or good), I just view the raw diet as the main contributor to health.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Joy2012

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2012, 03:54:57 pm »
I got the same black circles under my eyes, big time, on my weeks-long raw zero carb experiments, one reason, among many, why I had to give them up and go back to consuming a few raw  carbs. I've been told that black circles under the eyes is a symptom related to malfunctioning livers or kidneys. Since dehydration is also one possible cause, try drinking more water. If that doesn't work, then try adding in a few raw carbs.

Tyler, do  you have an idea as to why ZC caused your liver/kidneys to malfunction and thus resulted in dark eye circles?

What foods helped your dark eye circles go away?

I have had dark eye circles for a long time. I have been doing VLC  in the hope VLC would heal the problem. I drink at least 8 cups of water daily.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2012, 06:09:58 pm »
It wasn't so much my liver/kidneys that malfunctioned, I was dead wrong there. It was my glandular system(thyroid/adrenal in particular). That is, I had the same dark circles under my eyes before going rawpalaeo when I had such glandular issues.

I can't believe I suggested drinking lots of water at the time. The thing is, when I did my RZC experiments, I got very dehydrated and my subsequent drinking of water amounts of water did not make me feel any less dehydrated - I just pissed the water out of my body soon afterwards without my body absorbing it.  I even tried adding salt to my water to make my body absorb it better, but it didn't work.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Joy2012

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2012, 04:29:55 am »
It wasn't so much my liver/kidneys that malfunctioned, I was dead wrong there. It was my glandular system(thyroid/adrenal in particular). That is, I had the same dark circles under my eyes before going rawpalaeo when I had such glandular issues.
So ZC did not cause or worsen your dark eye circles problem? It just did not heal your grandular problem (which caused dark eye circles) which you had had before you embarked on your ZC experiment? 
Or did your grandular problem become healed (due to your non-ZC raw paleo diet) before you did your ZC experiment? Then it became bad after you started ZC?  If so, will you tell me what your non-ZC raw paleo diet contained before your ZC experiment?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 01:11:34 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2012, 01:19:15 pm »
I meant that I solved my dark circles under the eye issue after some years on a raw, omnivorous palaeolithic diet. Those dark circles quickly came back after I tried doing RZC experiments, along with many issues I'd had before going rawpalaeo. I suspect that going RZC puts an extra strain on one's glandular system. Those whose glands are in fine shape will likely have no issues with RZC diets, but those whose glands are not at optimum strength may suffer on such diets. That said, my deterioration on RZC diets happened soon after being 3 weeks on such a diet and the harm accelerated very fast after that point, so maybe I'm wrong re this notion. I will state that I ensured that I was eating more than enough raw animal fat and was drinking lots of water, plus I was eating some raw organ-meats too, so I doubt it was a case of me just not doing RZC diets properly.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Joy2012

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2012, 03:52:12 am »
Thanks, Tyler. So for you, omnivorous works better than ZC...
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 07:31:21 am by TylerDurden »

Offline Löwenherz

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2012, 05:08:28 am »
I meant that I solved my dark circles under the eye issue after some years on a raw, omnivorous palaeolithic diet. Those dark circles quickly came back after I tried doing RZC experiments, along with many issues I'd had before going rawpalaeo. I suspect that going RZC puts an extra strain on one's glandular system. Those whose glands are in fine shape will likely have no issues with RZC diets, but those whose glands are not at optimum strength may suffer on such diets. That said, my deterioration on RZC diets happened soon after being 3 weeks on such a diet and the harm accelerated very fast after that point, so maybe I'm wrong re this notion. I will state that I ensured that I was eating more than enough raw animal fat and was drinking lots of water, plus I was eating some raw organ-meats too, so I doubt it was a case of me just not doing RZC diets properly.

Tyler, how many carbs per day do you need to prevent adrenal problems?

Löwenherz

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2012, 05:15:11 am »
I only have issues with RZC if I do RZC for 3 weeks or more(well, other than a drop in athletic performance). So my glands are fine if I just do RZC for a few days or 2 weeks.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Löwenherz

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2012, 05:19:00 am »
So my glands are fine if I just do RZC for a few days or 2 weeks.

And how many carbs do you eat at "normal" days averagely?

Löwenherz

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2012, 06:18:31 am »
And how many carbs do you eat at "normal" days averagely?

Löwenherz

1 or 2 apples, maybe. Sometimes I'll eat a whole box of grapes, other days I will eat no raw plant foods at all.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Löwenherz

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2012, 09:23:39 pm »
1 or 2 apples, maybe. Sometimes I'll eat a whole box of grapes, other days I will eat no raw plant foods at all.

So, your main source of energy is animal fat. It would be interesting to see the blood sugar reaction of your body. Do you have a device to test it?

Do you feel symptoms of fluctuations of blood sugar levels sometimes in the days you eat carbs?

Löwenherz

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2012, 10:06:49 pm »
I only ever feel symptoms of fluctuations of blood sugar levels if I am doing a week or more of eating only raw plant foods. This is a rare occurrence, though, as it only happens when I can't get hold of any raw animal foods.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Joy2012

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2012, 05:22:12 am »
Tyler, May I ask if you were born with a blood sugar problem? I ask this because it seems to me from reading your posts that you strived to eat healthfully long before you found Raw Paleo and you did not knowingly abuse your body.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2012, 06:48:31 am »
I did not have blood sugar level problems until my mid-20s. My quest to do healthy diets started around the age of 23, though most of my health-problems started way before that point.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Joy2012

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2012, 01:08:47 pm »
I did not have blood sugar level problems until my mid-20s. My quest to do healthy diets started around the age of 23, though most of my health-problems started way before that point.

Do you have an idea as to what caused your glandular system problem and other health problems?

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2012, 02:44:07 pm »
Do you have an idea as to what caused your glandular system problem and other health problems?
I seem to have a nasty, subtle allergy to raw and pasteurised dairy which has caused all these problems. It starts slowly with an urge to frequently urinate, and then I start getting all the former health-problems I had before, such as fatigue etc. I wish I'd had more obvious allergy symptoms such as getting facial spots or whatever.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Joy2012

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2012, 03:38:10 pm »
I seem to have a nasty, subtle allergy to raw and pasteurised dairy which has caused all these problems. It starts slowly with an urge to frequently urinate, and then I start getting all the former health-problems I had before, such as fatigue etc. I wish I'd had more obvious allergy symptoms such as getting facial spots or whatever.
I vaguely remember that you tried raw vegan diet before raw paleo and the raw vegan diet did not heal all your health problems? So a raw vegan diet--which was  without dairy--did not resolve your health problems that were supposedly caused by dairy?

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2012, 04:09:16 pm »
I vaguely remember that you tried raw vegan diet before raw paleo and the raw vegan diet did not heal all your health problems? So a raw vegan diet--which was  without dairy--did not resolve your health problems that were supposedly caused by dairy?
  I tried a dozen other diets, such as the cooked-palaeolithic-diet as well in those days. None of them really worked. The thing is that by that point my health was so destroyed that removal of a negative(such as dairy) was not enough, I needed something positive for me(raw, grassfed or wild, meat) to get back to full health.

When I went raw vegan and then fruitarian, I did have one or two benefits therefrom. I no longer had any painful stomach-aches(I only ever got those pains after eating any cooked animal foods, at the time). I also found that I lost a bit of weight. However, none of my other health-problems were resolved in any way, and I found I was getting a very unnatural , powerful appetite  - I would end up eating many kilos of fruit a day, and still feel hungry afterwards, so I realised I needed certain missing nutrients and switched to rawpalaeodiets.Going raw vegan/fruitarian was very expensive as well.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 02:52:38 pm by TylerDurden »
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Joy2012

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Re: Black Shadows / Dark Circles / Eye Bagginess / Loss of skin tone under eyes
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2012, 12:37:39 pm »
Thank you, Tyler, for being open about your quest-for-health history, which shall help me forestall some trials and errors.

Offline bonita

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MrBBQ, I had same problems. Parsley and wheat-grass juice helped. You need to drink it early morning. I used to filter the juice, but now I don't.

Offline Joy2012

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After doing my first RP diet in the form of ZC or VLC  (with lots of raw cheese) from late Janaury to Mid-May this year, I found the dark circles under my eyes darkened. And I did not feel any health benefits from the diet.  After reading this thread, I thought that lack of carb and plenty of dairy might be the culprits.

Since mid-May I have been in Taiwan. My diet in this past month is not very ideal: plenty of raw fruit, some cooked seafood and a little cooked meats and a bit of cooked carb...because I have been in Taiwan and I eat at the tables of friends often.  I have cut out dairy completely. My dark eye circle problem has not improved. So diary does not seem to be the culprit.

 I will stay in Taiwan for another 8 weeks. The only safe/healthy raw animal foods here are wild-caught tuna and semi-pastured egg yokes. Quality raw tuna is more expensive than I can afford (More than $100 a day if I only eat quality raw tuna).  The tuna I could afford needs a little searing to get rid of the fishy taste.  There is simply no way I may get quality raw beef. There is plenty of fruit here. 

So with solving my dark eye circle problem in mind, I am considering experimenting this "detox" diet for the next few weeks: much raw fruit, some raw egg yokes/lightly cooked eggwhites, raw coconut butter, plus a little lightly seared tuna. Is this a good idea?

Somewhere someone wrote that the fault of raw fruitarian diet is that it is nutritionally deficient because of the lack of animal foods...that raw fruit sugar is alright for health. That is why I am considering a diet consisting of mostly raw fruit plus eggs and seared tuna.

Suggestions/comments are welcome.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 10:44:18 pm by Joy2012 »

Offline RawZi

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    Hi Joy!

    I spent over a week with not one minute of sleep as a teen, as I was sole care provider for near death very young animals.  I got dark rings under my eyes that lasted more or less a quarter century.  For my dark under eye circles, the best thing that made them go away is fermented kidneys and no dairy.  I do dairy, but I didn't do it for a while, and this is when it left.  Any of the raw meats and high meats helped, but kidney ferment most of what I tried.

    Enjoy your trip!
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline Joy2012

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    Hi Joy!

    I spent over a week with not one minute of sleep as a teen, as I was sole care provider for near death very young animals.  I got dark rings under my eyes that lasted more or less a quarter century.  For my dark under eye circles, the best thing that made them go away is fermented kidneys and no dairy.  I do dairy, but I didn't do it for a while, and this is when it left.  Any of the raw meats and high meats helped, but kidney ferment most of what I tried.

    Enjoy your trip!

RawZi, Thank you for sharing your experience. I feel hope.

How long did it take for dark circles to leave you when you stayed away from dairy?

It seems that you resumed eating dairy after your dark circles went away. Do they come back when you eat dairy now?

Since no-dairy succeeded in making your dark circles go away, how could you tell that fermented kidney helped too?

No-dairy is doable for me. But I cannot imagine eating fermented kidney. I tried minced raw port kidney once and could not stand the smell. I like cooked kidney though, but I guess that would not work.

Offline RawZi

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    Hi Joy,

    I've never tried cooked kidney, I don't know how to compare it for the eating experience.  I've seen recipes for how to prepare it, I've just never had any feeling I should try it. I can't imagine it would be healthy for me to eat it cooked. 

    My diet has not been consistent all the time. It seems kidney takes it away faster, and dairy brings some back sometimes. The raw grass fed cultured never been frozen butter has not been a problem as for health effect on me ever.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline Joy2012

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RawZi, Thank you for your reply.

I heard a friend talking about the benefit of deep sleep last night; and I realized that my sleep quality has been bad for years because my late-night snacking habit. I am doing something about it. Plus I have been staying away from dairy for 2 months now. I will see if my dark eye circles will depart when I manage to sleep deeply without interruptions.

 

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