Author Topic: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey  (Read 17125 times)

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Offline HIT_it_RAW

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Re: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2011, 04:08:05 am »
Yeah but still, I haven't heard it being recommended for daily consumption in large amounts.
I myself would always take fruit over honey; any fruit will be more nutritious than the equivalent amount of honey (equivalent in terms of sugar).
It might be better as a healing food though, as there's no fiber so much easier on digestion, and it gives energy quickly (well it's basically sugar). But if you're not sick, I don't see the point.
I have experienced no ill effect from honey. Quit the contrary. To much sugary fruit makes me sluggish honey gives me energy. Especially combined with butter and/or milk.
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preserve the meat, deliver a baby, nurture the sick and reassure the dying, fight a war … specialization is for insects.”

Offline p0wer

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Re: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2011, 05:04:13 am »
Does table sugar (sucrose) give you the same energy?

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5568/2

I don't see how is this any different than pure sugar. Don't tell me that the raw honey contains more vitamins/minerals than this analysis which I assume is heated honey, except maybe for the tiny bit of vitamin C it has.
Raw honey may have some enzymes/other stuff which help in digestion or have other healing properties, but that doesn't change the fact that nutritionally it's pure sugar.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2011, 05:41:37 am »
I don't see how is this any different than pure sugar.
Well, for one thing, table sugar is heated and refined and depleted of what little nutrients it has, whereas truly raw honey is not.

Quote
Raw honey may have some enzymes/other stuff which help in digestion or have other healing properties, but that doesn't change the fact that nutritionally it's pure sugar.
If it contains enzymes and other stuff then by definition it's not pure sugar.

I agree that fruits are probably superior overall to honey for healthy people and I haven't yet seen any guru/expert other than Aajonus recommend regular consumption of large amounts (and I suspect that that's not a good idea), but are you sure you aren't exaggerating? Isn't there enough science at this point to at least suggest (not conclude) that raw honey may have some additional beneficial properties?

Some honeys contain royal jelly, which contains insulin-like polypeptides (K.J. Kramer et al, Purification of insulinlike peptides from insects haemolynph and royal jelly, Insect Biochemistry, 1982, http://ddr.nal.usda.gov/bitstream/10113/11676/1/IND82045335.pdf and K. Münstedt, Royal Jelly Reduces the Serum Glucose Levels in Healthy Subjects, 2009, www.liebertonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/jmf.2008.0289), which may help prevent the potential ill effects of fructose (Substituting Honey for Refined Carbohydrates Protects Rats from Hypertriglyceridemic and Prooxidative Effects of Fructose, http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/11/3379.full)

Other potential benefits:

In vitro investigation into the potential prebiotic activity of honey oligosaccharides.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15826039
"Honey oligosaccharides seem to present potential prebiotic activity (PI values between 3.38 and 4.24), increasing the populations of bifidobacteria and lactobacilli, although not to the levels of FOS (PI of 6.89)."

Antibacterial Efficacy of Raw and Processed Honey
http://www.sage-hindawi.com/journals/btri/2011/917505/
The present study concluded that honey has both bacteriostatic as well as bactericidal activity against many pathogens.

Effect of antibacterial honey on the ocular flora in tear deficiency and meibomian gland disease.
Cornea. 2006 Oct;25(9):1012-9.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17133045
"CONCLUSION: From these results, there is sufficient preliminary data to warrant further study of the effects of antibacterial honey in chronic ocular surface diseases."

Honey as a Protective Agent against Lipid Oxidation in Ground Turkey
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf010820a
"Honey has great potential as an antioxidant source and may result in greater acceptability of meat products and prevent negative health implications of oxidized meats."
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 05:48:43 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline HIT_it_RAW

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Re: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2011, 02:29:47 pm »
Does table sugar (sucrose) give you the same energy?

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5568/2

I don't see how is this any different than pure sugar. Don't tell me that the raw honey contains more vitamins/minerals than this analysis which I assume is heated honey, except maybe for the tiny bit of vitamin C it has.
Raw honey may have some enzymes/other stuff which help in digestion or have other healing properties, but that doesn't change the fact that nutritionally it's pure sugar.
that is not raw honey in the nutritiondata. No table sugar does the same as fruitsugar (cooked)starches etc. Too much carbs make me sluggish raw honey doen't. Brady also has very good effects from honey. It may be possible that a lot of people try what they think is raw honey(but which is not) get some bad effects and give up. There are other factors involved too. I only buy honey from wild flowers, and bees that get to keep some of their honey for th winter(instead of getting table sugar). A lot of honeys are from only 1 type of flower like sunflower clover etc. this might make a real difference. Than off course there is the race of bee's used wheter or not they have natural wax hives or plactic ones if the queen is present etc etc so many variables. If you want to know for sure you can handle real raw honey buy a mask and get some from a wild hive.
“A man should be able to build a house, butcher a hog, tan the hide,
preserve the meat, deliver a baby, nurture the sick and reassure the dying, fight a war … specialization is for insects.”

Offline Wolf

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Re: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2011, 01:04:35 am »
Raw honey, nor fruits, don't seem to have many ill effects on me.  I'm sure pure raw honey is not nearly as good for you as if you were able to eat whole honey, including the propolis, bee's wax, honeycomb, royal jelly, bee pollen, etc. all together, straight from the hive.  The raw honey I mainly eat proclaims on the label that it is never heated, filtered, or strained, that they promote organic methods of raising bees, no pesticides are ever used, and that the honey still contains pollen, propolis, and honeycomb.. and indeed, when I open the jar, there is a layer of these bits that have risen to the top.  And despite the fact that I often eat this honey, and that I eat fruits everyday, my face has been clearing up more and more as time passes.  Slowly, but surely.

Now you see, I'm pretty sure the raw honey that I've seen at trader joe's, is not nearly as healthy or beneficial as my other honey.. it's obviously filtered or strained, seeing as it has no bits and pieces in it, and is also quite possibly centrifuged, which I heard is also bad for the honey.
Hi, I'm 32, around 5'4" and ~124lb, no real significant health problems other than hyperventilating when running/exercising (that my doc said was because of the smog/asthma), fatigue, and really bad acne.
I'd preferably be a carnivore/very low carb, but I have had a very hard time finding grass-fed or even organic fats, organs, and marrow. I consume raw dairy, but I do not eat much vegetables.. however, I do love fruit.
I live with my dad, so I also have to sneak any raw meat eating.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2011, 01:29:14 am »
Yes, Aajonus said that he measured the temp. of centrifuged honey and found that the centrifuge heated the honey above the level he recommends. This has been discussed before in this forum if someone wants more info on it and I seem to remember seeing a Youtube video on it.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Techydude

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Re: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2011, 05:19:19 am »
I'm curious as to what should we do about honey - the mixing thing, etc? I wish we could go up to a hive with smoke and sheets and get our own...

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2011, 05:38:07 am »
Techydude, the answer to most of your questions is "Search is your friend." Do a little searching of this forum and the Internet and you'll find multiple raw honey makers include other bits of the hive, such as propalis, wax cappings, royal jelly, etc. in their honeys. Try different ones and see which you prefer for health and/or taste reasons or whatever other reasons are important to you. I read what people recommended here and what Aajonus recommended and tried a dozen or more of the recommended national, international and local raw and nearly raw honeys before I settled on the fermented version of Really Raw brand honey, which includes "a layer of crunchy bits of pollen, propolis, and capping wax that crown each jar" (though it can get mixed in during shipping so that it's not noticeable). It's only by trying different honeys and reading about the differences that you'll know which are best for you, if any. For me it turned out that the two characteristics of honey that produced the best health and taste results up to now are fermentation and true rawness (not centrifuged). Aajonus recommended the Really Raw brand and I've found his recommendation to be a good one.

I'm hoping that some day a local honey producer will make a honey that is truly raw (not centrifuged) and fermented. Unfortunately, most beekeepers don't understand the benefits of true rawness and fermentation (they tend to regard fermentation as a bad thing). It would really be cool if someone would sell grubcomb too.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Wolf

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Re: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2011, 12:32:37 am »
Oh I bought some really raw brand honey, too, it's really good, tastes great, and has all those bits and pieces like my other honey I eat.. Really Raw honey is Really Expensive honey too, though, lol.  The other honey I get which I love is Wee Bee Honey.. they have a website, too.

http://www.weebeehoney.net/about-us.html

I can get a 2lb jar of honey for less than $20, whereas my Really Raw honey was $7.69 for 8oz.
Hi, I'm 32, around 5'4" and ~124lb, no real significant health problems other than hyperventilating when running/exercising (that my doc said was because of the smog/asthma), fatigue, and really bad acne.
I'd preferably be a carnivore/very low carb, but I have had a very hard time finding grass-fed or even organic fats, organs, and marrow. I consume raw dairy, but I do not eat much vegetables.. however, I do love fruit.
I live with my dad, so I also have to sneak any raw meat eating.

Offline raw-al

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Re: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2011, 01:38:39 am »
I buy in bulk from the aviary for 3 canadian dollars/pound.
Cheers
Al

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2011, 06:55:04 am »
Wofl, I buy a 1 lb jar and by the case from Really Raw, so it's cheaper than that for me. Maybe I'll try WeeBee some day too. Thanks for the info.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline HIT_it_RAW

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Re: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2011, 01:43:10 pm »
I buy in bulk from the aviary for 3 canadian dollars/pound.
thats dirt cheap
“A man should be able to build a house, butcher a hog, tan the hide,
preserve the meat, deliver a baby, nurture the sick and reassure the dying, fight a war … specialization is for insects.”

Offline raw-al

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Re: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2011, 09:41:40 pm »
thats dirt cheap

That's typical around here. Check with a local aviary, it may be the same. You see I am saving them the trouble of putting it in a bottle and then cutting out the middlemen. The guy delivers it also.

Look in the phone book or go to the local health food store and look at the bottles for a telephone # and ask who the local beekeepers are. Then call them and ask how much you need to buy to get that price. We had to pay 5 dollars for the pail but it is reusable. We bought 70 pounds, but we could have bought a small amount for the same price.

The sooner you contact them the better as then they can plan out their season better.

They like the health food stores as they are steady customers but they like me even more because I am a big sale with less hassle.
Cheers
Al

Offline Wolf

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Re: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2011, 12:39:41 am »
Wofl, I buy a 1 lb jar and by the case from Really Raw, so it's cheaper than that for me. Maybe I'll try WeeBee some day too. Thanks for the info.

I looked on the Really Raw website and calculated the pricing for the case(at $150.90 for a case of 24 8oz glasses), and it comes out to about $6.28 or so per each 8oz bottle.. which is still more expensive at over $25 for 2lbs of honey, while my weebee honey was $18.99 for a 2lb jar.. and the 1lb jar is already $14.70, which is only $4.29 cheaper for half as much honey.

Although those are the reallyrawhoney.com website prices, I don't know if you get your Really Raw honey from a different source that might be cheaper.
Hi, I'm 32, around 5'4" and ~124lb, no real significant health problems other than hyperventilating when running/exercising (that my doc said was because of the smog/asthma), fatigue, and really bad acne.
I'd preferably be a carnivore/very low carb, but I have had a very hard time finding grass-fed or even organic fats, organs, and marrow. I consume raw dairy, but I do not eat much vegetables.. however, I do love fruit.
I live with my dad, so I also have to sneak any raw meat eating.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2011, 04:44:35 am »
I don't remember the exact price, but I pay less than $11/lb for the raw fermented honey direct from Really Raw.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline eveheart

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Re: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2011, 08:41:46 am »
Check with a local aviary...

Wonderful idea! I did this and found one nearby. Saves me hunting around for real honey at farmer's markets and smaller stores.
"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline Wolf

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Re: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2011, 08:56:28 am »
I don't remember the exact price, but I pay less than $11/lb for the raw fermented honey direct from Really Raw.

Oh, I didn't check the fermented honey prices.
Is fermented honey alcoholic?  I'd like to try some, but not if it's in any way alcoholic.. I've never drank alcohol nor do I want to, and I don't want to drink or eat anything that might be even slightly alcoholic.
Hi, I'm 32, around 5'4" and ~124lb, no real significant health problems other than hyperventilating when running/exercising (that my doc said was because of the smog/asthma), fatigue, and really bad acne.
I'd preferably be a carnivore/very low carb, but I have had a very hard time finding grass-fed or even organic fats, organs, and marrow. I consume raw dairy, but I do not eat much vegetables.. however, I do love fruit.
I live with my dad, so I also have to sneak any raw meat eating.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: How to Create REAL Raw Paleo Honey
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2011, 11:18:02 am »
Is fermented honey alcoholic?
No, but many people don't seem to believe me when I tell them that. Everyone accepts that raw fermented cabbage (sauerkraut) is not alcoholic but few will accept that raw fermented honey is not alcoholic because it gets confused with mead.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

 

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