Author Topic: Cooked Starches  (Read 24517 times)

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Offline MrBBQ

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Cooked Starches
« on: March 04, 2010, 09:09:07 pm »
Hey all,

I've been struggling with weight maintenance, energy levels and kidney health on high RVAF and as an experiment, I've been including some cooked starches (butternut squash, carrots, potatoes etc.) to augment my raw meat/fruits/vegetables diet (a la the Kitavans). I can say that for the first time in a couple of years, I feel more motivation/energy, increased strength and weight regain.

I realise it's taboo to introduce this topic in a raw forum, but frankly, it's just an "augmentation" of my raw paleo effort to assist my energy levels and weight gain.

I must say that with these cooked starches, I never feel any subsequent hypoglycemic response (tiredness, yawning) and it seems already that my glucose tolerance has improved, as well as bowel movements, metabolism and weight gain.

Has anyone else experimented with this augmentation to RVAF with beneficial efficacy?

Best,

Scotty
When hungry eat, when tired sleep - this is the essence of Zen...

William

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2010, 12:01:31 am »
Hey all,

I've been struggling with weight maintenance, energy levels and kidney health on high RVAF and as an experiment, I've been including some cooked starches (butternut squash, carrots, potatoes etc.) to augment my raw meat/fruits/vegetables diet (a la the Kitavans).

Has anyone else experimented with this augmentation to RVAF with beneficial efficacy?



I experimented with cooked starch one year ago, with very bad result.


Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2010, 12:21:46 am »
I would try stuff like honey and fruit before you go to cooked starches.

Also try stuff like beets and raw sweet potatoes and other underground vegetables that are starchy. But they're also raw.

good luck
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline yon yonson

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2010, 01:37:52 am »
i tried a steamed sweet potato right before thanksgiving to see if i could tolerate them while with the family. i found that it pretty much acted like a colon cleanse (not in a good way). about 10 minutes after i ate it (only a few ounces), i got a headache and then 30 minutes later i shit it all out. it also made me itchy all over for a while. it seems my body doesn't like them

Offline MrBBQ

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2010, 04:44:09 am »
Worthwhile suggestions, which I appreciate.

Fruit and honey seem to be destroying my teeth gradually (minimise them to small doses) and even though I'm eating green clay, freshly-made bone meal, large amounts of fat and fatty cuts, I can't turn the tide enough for my teeth to be able to tolerate fruit and honey.

Raw zero carb is pretty dangerous for me too (serious constipation resulting in blood in the toilet, major dark circles and more), plus I can't seem to get enough of a good ratio of carbs (to meat+fat) from fruit without my teeth being battered by all of the organic acids.

The only reason I've turned to cooked starches is that nothing is actually working to turn the tide (at the moment) and my teeth are damaged to the extent that I'm not willing to eat fruits in sufficient quantity to balance with meat+fat. Raw starchy vegetables aren't really something that I could sustain, which is the reason I'm engaged in very light cooking.

I particularly don't like the idea of continuining with F-CLO, so I'll stick with land ruminant liver and D3 supplements (and enjoy the sunshine as often as possible).

The interesting observation I've made is that the more cooked starches I eat, the more meat+fat I can eat without too-pronounced dark circles and rapid heart beating, which is something that fruits could never mitigate - almost as if I couldn't eat enough carbs from fruit to balance the meat+fat.

I came across Stephen @ Whole Health Source's recommendations as follows, which coincidentally reconcile with my own experimentation:

- Rich in animal foods such as meat, organs, fish, bone broths, full-fat pastured dairy (if tolerated) and eggs.
- Fermented grains only; no unfermented grains such as oatmeal, breakfast cereal, crackers, etc. No breads except sourdough because they typically aren't made from fresh flour.
- No nuts; beans in moderation, only if they're soaked overnight or longer in warm water (due to the phytic acid).
- Starchy vegetables such as potatoes and sweet potatoes.
- Moderate quantities of fruit, but no refined sweets.
- Moderate quantities of well-cooked vegetables.
- Sunlight, high-vitamin cod liver oil or vitamin D3 supplements.
- Generous amounts of pastured butter.
- No industrially processed food.

It's int'resting that many people tout the benefits of broth, yet never mention raw bone meal, which seems much more convenient to me (and less energy-intensive).

@cherimoya_kid: I know that you're also endeavouring to heal your teeth post-fruitarianism - what success have you had thus far and with what food? (I know PaleoPhil, Tyler and Lex have no problematic situation nowadays and experienced healing)

Best,

Scotty
When hungry eat, when tired sleep - this is the essence of Zen...

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2010, 09:56:08 am »


@cherimoya_kid: I know that you're also endeavouring to heal your teeth post-fruitarianism - what success have you had thus far and with what food? (I know PaleoPhil, Tyler and Lex have no problematic situation nowadays and experienced healing)



swishing with bone meal after every meal seems to really help my teeth.  Dry scallops (the ones that aren't treated with sodium metabisultfite)  seem to be really great for my teeth.  Dark leafy greens like spinach are also very helpful. 

If I were to cut out all raw dairy, and keep eating the same in every other way, my teeth would be like iron.  They're still in good shape, but I do have some slight sensitivity from time to time.

Offline raw

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2010, 10:46:31 am »
this is so funny that in 3rd world like where i'm from, rich  eats lots of cooked starches, and poor eats all the good things.
bugs or country chickens

Offline Taste Sense

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2010, 01:36:01 pm »
If you have to cook them to make them digestible, then they're not paleo and probably unhealthy.

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2010, 01:42:41 pm »
If you have to cook them to make them digestible, then they're not paleo and probably unhealthy. 
That would be very true, if there weren't any people who do well eating them and feel bad after eating raw fruits and honey. But there are such kind of people.
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Offline kurite

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2010, 02:35:36 pm »
Why don't you eat starchy raw alternatives. Quinoa for instance is actually a seed not a grain and when sprouted can be eaten raw. They are very starchy and their nutritional profile is very similar to a grain.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2010, 04:35:19 pm »
This topic belongs in the hot topics forum only. I'll move it there.

As for cooked starches, unsurprisingly, like the vast majority, I do badly on them, though not as badly as with cooked animal fats.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Taste Sense

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2010, 05:24:33 pm »
I just don't like the taste, look, and texture of cooked fat. However, cooking fat at high temps. is necessary for good pemmican. There are miraculous stories about people thriving on pemmican alone.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2010, 05:35:09 pm »
I just don't like the taste, look, and texture of cooked fat. However, cooking fat at high temps. is necessary for good pemmican. There are miraculous stories about people thriving on pemmican alone.
  Cooking at high temps is essential for making pemmican that can store for long periods. As for health-claims re pemmican, the word "miraculous" is rather inappropriate, as none of the various accounts are remotely believable, especially in view of the fact that so many RPDers do so badly, healthwise,  on pemmican.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

William

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2010, 08:17:13 pm »
I just don't like the taste, look, and texture of cooked fat. However, cooking fat at high temps. is necessary for good pemmican. There are miraculous stories about people thriving on pemmican alone.

Psst. It's rendering. If you write cooking, you push TD's paranoid button harder.

Not necessarily high heat, though. Commercial rendering is also done at 120-130F in water. Of course, that would not keep very long.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2010, 12:49:20 am »
Psst. It's rendering. If you write cooking, you push TD's paranoid button harder.

Not necessarily high heat, though. Commercial rendering is also done at 120-130F in water. Of course, that would not keep very long.
 Rendering is a form of cooking, like it or not.And the fact that pemmican has to be heated at high temperatures in order to keep for longer means that it has to be even more damaged by heat than otherwise.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

William

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2010, 02:27:20 am »
 Rendering is a form of cooking, like it or not.

Only for those who cannot tell the differencehttp://www.memidex.com/rendering+cooking.


Nobody heats pemmican.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 08:05:27 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2010, 08:06:52 pm »
Only for those who cannot tell the differencehttp://www.memidex.com/rendering+cooking.

Unfortunately for you, rendering is considered a form of cooking by the dictionary:- http://www.memidex.com/rendering+cooking

, so you are in a tiny minority of crazed ZCers who are too stupid to realise this.

Quote
Nobody heats pemmican.

  Again, unfortunately, most people, other than crackpots, view melting fat  to make pemmican ,as constituting a form of heating.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline cliff

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2010, 12:30:03 am »
Question for people who have tried cooked grains and had bad results, did you try fermented grains?

I get a 30 day aged sourdough from my local farmers market that i do wonderfully on, the taste is amazing(not like any other bread) and it's very rich in protien and short chain fatty acids.

Offline KD

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2010, 01:36:59 am »


I get a 30 day aged sourdough from my local farmers market that i do wonderfully on, the taste is amazing(not like any other bread) and it's very rich in protien and short chain fatty acids.

I think there are people following Primal Diet that consume sourdough with lots of raw butter, but more in a medicinal way for some specific detox, or simply to slow down detox/be more balanced etc..not for nutritional reasons. Seems like most RPD avoid even the starches deemed acceptable in traditional cooked paleo diets, which themselves are very anti grain in any fashion. Seems like a mixture of raw animal proteins with excessive cooked starch internally could lead to some issues I would think. Are you thinking of traditional Swiss Diet ala W.P.?

Offline cliff

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2010, 01:59:36 am »
Are you thinking of traditional Swiss Diet ala W.P.?

I try to follow a some what ancestral diet based on what my ancestors would be eating 2000 years ago, butter, kefir, sourdough, bee products and some fruits etc. seems to be working so far

William

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2010, 05:04:20 am »
Unfortunately for you, rendering is considered a form of cooking by the dictionary:- http://www.memidex.com/rendering+cooking

, so you are in a tiny minority of crazed ZCers who are too stupid to realise this.
  Again, unfortunately, most people, other than crackpots, view melting fat  to make pemmican ,as constituting a form of heating.

Stupid is as stupid does.

I eat raw pemmican and am well. You managed to poison yourself with something that you believed was tallow, and we would all like to know how you did it.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 05:49:41 am by William »

Offline jessica

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2010, 07:46:02 am »
ive been cooking up cornmeal and eating it with raw butter and eggs, salmon etc...
i eat potatoes, sweet and regular raw, as well as raw carrots and squash..cooking these makes them too sweet...i dont feel any hypoglycemic reaction
BUT>....if i eat fruit i feel hypoglycemic and hungry...honey is the same way....?
so to those suggesting these above roots and squash i dont think everyones body reacts the same..

alphagruis

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2010, 04:47:12 pm »
Stupid is as stupid does.

I eat raw pemmican and am well.

ive been cooking up cornmeal and eating it with raw butter and eggs, salmon etc...
i eat potatoes, sweet and regular raw, as well as raw carrots and squash..cooking these makes them too sweet...i dont feel any hypoglycemic reaction
BUT>....if i eat fruit i feel hypoglycemic and hungry...honey is the same way....?
so to those suggesting these above roots and squash i dont think everyones body reacts the same..

Yes, these observations are just facts that cannot be stupidly ignored or denied if we want to be taken seriously from a scientific point of view and progress in future. Dogmatism is just stupidity.

There is most likely a big difference between William's "raw pemmican" and cooked meat and fat in general. Similarly between home cooked and grown potatoes or other tubers and highly processed starches and breads based on modern wheat from agrobusiness. 

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2010, 01:44:32 am »
Stupid is as stupid does.

I eat raw pemmican and am well. You managed to poison yourself with something that you believed was tallow, and we would all like to know how you did it.

The very fact that you insist on the notion that your pemmican is always 100 percent raw despite heating-rendering. demonstrates stupidity.  As for the tallow I ate it was heated suet and I am just 1 of many,many RPDers who happen to do badly on heated animal fats of all kinds. What I find personally rather interesting/telling, though, is that despite various unconvincing  protestations from 1 or 2 lone individuals re pemmican, the vast majority of RVAFers who have tried it report feeling worse-off , healthwise than on genuinely raw animal foods with negative symptoms increasing the more pemmican they eat,  and the more frequently they eat it etc... Given the above, if there is any genuine difference in maleffects between pemmican and standard cooked animal foods it is clearly too negligible to be of any note.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

William

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Re: Cooked Starches
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2010, 02:00:44 am »
Post redacted due to the intentional making of deliberately incorrect statements.


« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 05:46:35 am by TylerDurden »

 

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