Author Topic: Explain Instincto Diet Fully #2  (Read 87996 times)

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Offline GCB

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #75 on: July 10, 2010, 09:58:48 pm »
>>we are no longer placed in an environment close to the one where our genome evolved

Concerning this point: Will you answer my initially posed questions later on?


Could you please remind me which question you refer to? A link to the relevant post would help me. Thanks.

carnivore

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #76 on: July 10, 2010, 11:26:21 pm »
I succeeded in convincing, during dozens of years, approximately twelve thousand people to try the experiment.

How many have succeeded in the long run and continue eating according to your teachings among the twelve thousand people you have convinced ?

In my personal experience with instincto, I have found that I simply cannot sustain my body on the long run with only 2 meals a day, generally based on plant food (animal products being not an everyday food). And it seems that it is not a personal defect : many instinctos are underweight and lack energy (I have been to dozens of meetings these last ten years and that was striking!).  I have noticed that many of the few that succeed and that are not underweight generally eat more than 2 meals a day, unless they are physically inactive. And it is not without good reasons that Dominique Guyaux has proposed in his "AIR" to eat several mono-meals a day. Only on a (mainly) carnivorous diet can we make it with one (or two) big meals a day in terms of energy requirement, as I have experienced personally.

The fluctuation of energy requirements during the day, and the fact that insuline production is determined primary by the size of the meal are IMO two good reasons that explain the failure of many instinctos on a 2-meals-a-day schedule.

This should be taken into account if you want to "convince" others...
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 12:09:28 am by carnivore »


Offline GCB

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #78 on: July 11, 2010, 11:47:28 pm »
Whaw! Your links lead me to a lot of questions, Hanna, and to be complete my answers would fill at least dozen of pages…

I attentively read everything you wrote, and finally choose some questions which seem to summarize your concerns.

Quote from: Hanna

When (and where) do you think lived the last ancestor of us eating raw?
But there ARE diffences (small intestine more extended, as far as I remember) - and the teeth of humans are smaller. We are e.g. no longer adapted to eat leaves like the chimpanzees and we couldn´t eat the fruits eaten by them.
(…) perhaps YOU could tell me when and where this instincto species eating durian, cempedak, jackfruit, banana, dates, safu, avocado... lived? Where was this tropical paradise and when did it exist? Were the instinctos living there apelike or already human? WHO CAN HELP ME with these questions?



The fundamental meaning of your questions is to know since when our genetic data goes back in time, those of our assimilation system as well as those of our alliesthesic mechanisms. I thus begin by summarizing my position, considering the general confusion spread in the minds by some debunking champions:

The characters of a species do not go back to an exact point in time, since evolution is permanent: the species change, the environment changes in a continuous coevolution. To speak about a specific time ever since the characteristics of our organisms would go back is merely a form of heuristics, a simplification of language meant to ease the verbal expression of the argument, considering the language does not provide terms expressing simply complex phenomena moving in time.

It happens however that the characters specific to a specie are by definition hereditary (mainly determined by the genome). There can thus be a delay between the environmental changes and the adaptation of the species (and reciprocally). A change of diet can obviously cause disorders, the adaptabilities being limited, whatever their nature. So, the question I asked almost a half-century ago appears irrefragable to me. It is in fact a triple question:

• Do the most recent diet changes, inherent in the culinary and agricultural artifices introduced roughly speaking since the Neolithic era, have (or they would require) an adaptation of the species in order to avoid any physiological dysfunction?

• Were these adaptive processes carried out satisfactorily in the interval?

• Was such an adaptation possible and would it still be possible?

If the answer to the second question is negative, which are then the consequences in terms of health of an incomplete or null adaptation to each one of these artifices?

This relates to all the physiological mechanisms, to the mechanisms of assimilation and to the mechanisms of nutritional regulation.

Instinctonutrition is in itself and foremost an experiment intended to answer these questions in an empirical way. I always presented it unlike a diet based on a dogma, but like a personal experience, with for safety guarantee the fact that I practiced it with my family and a large circle of friends for ten years before taking the risk to speak about it publicly. However, the results proved very positive, so that a pre-culinary diet proved to play an important therapeutic role, preventive and curative, in particular thanks to the rehabilitation of the listening of the body (perceptive variations of the sense of smell, taste and stomachic feelings).

Therefore, you’ll notice the fact that an alleged larger or smaller difference between us and the chimpanzees does not change anything to the argument. Indeed, nothing allows us to predict that the human organism works better with a diet similar to that of the chimpanzees, or a contrario that an evolution of our physiological data implies that we need a different diet. To answer this question analytically (comparison of the enzymes, characteristics of the digestive tract, etc) provides general indications only. A single conclusion can be drawn: a nutrition closer to that of the primates from which we evolved has more chances to be better suited to us than a distant one such as a conventional diet.

The empirical way is therefore privileged to bring reliable answers, and it is the line I’ve followed since 1964, with all kinds of corrections made to the practice’s principles according to the observations done on the field. Therefore my approach doesn’t require at all any reference to a primal paradise. If I speak about it sometimes, it is in a humorous way, or as a metaphor. Those attacking me using for argument that such a paradise never existed simply failed to understand anything in my proposal. It doesn’t prevent my preferred oilseed fruit (the safu) to grow in the Cameroon forest, neither the coconut tree to thrive in all tropical islands, nor the durian and cempedak to fall from the trees the last orangutans of Borneo climb.

It is completely indifferent for me to know if there was once a so-called “primal paradise”, a place where all the suitable wild food would have been found nearby. I am satisfied to notice the fact that with a sufficient choice, coming from all kinds of source, a fine nutritional balance is quicker and easier reached, in particular for the ones whose health is severely deteriorated. This point is checked by the therapeutic results, and it is finally rather logical: the wider the choice, the larger the chances to find the adequate nutrients and herbal medical substances. I think for example of former vegans suffering of serious malnutrition. They needed a great diversity of products, not in view to ingest them all at once, but to discover without losing too much time the specific stuff able to resolve the situation. It has been once crab, once jackfruit, once meat, once pineapple, once honey… The need is in these cases very definite and very urgent, and the more choice,  the better it is. But it doesn’t mean one needs the same broad choice range in cruising speed, I mean on the table everyday after initial discoveries have been acquired. Each person simply do what he/she feels instinctively or what he/she perceive most suitable in his/hers case.

Concerning the alliesthesic mechanisms, I never pretended they work in a perfect way. Perfection doesn’t belong to this world. I simply became aware that they are able to drive the food choice much better than one can do it mentally. The mental is indeed not in direct contact with the body needs, which proved eminently variable. The dietetic principles, for example, are based on averages, and the attribute of an average is that the individual data move more or less away from it according to each case. Applying a median value to an individual case is in fact a guarantee of error in many cases.

It’s necessary to add that it ain’t easy at all to correctly use these alliesthesic mechanisms, in particular for the reasons explained above: training skewed since early childhood under the effect of savors and consistencies deteriorations, available foodstuff dissimilar to the wild ones and disorders induced in the operation of the sensory perceptions, habits to privilege the arbitrary choices and to force indications of the smell and taste perceptions.

It is indeed difficult to distinguish the disorders caused by a dysfunction of the alliesthesic regulation of those induced by some processes of detoxination. All kinds of criteria nevertheless allow us to discern between the two explanations. It is in particular necessary to observe what the concerned disorders become after years of practice: the differences are then clearer between food overload and faintnesses of any kind.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 12:56:55 am by GCB »

Offline GCB

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #79 on: July 12, 2010, 12:43:20 am »
How many have succeeded in the long run and continue eating according to your teachings among the twelve thousand people you have convinced ?

I’ve always presented the instincto as a personal experience to be initially tried for about three weeks, even if one wishes to continue it thereafter. I can thus estimate at twelve thousand the number of people who carried out the experiment, but it is difficult for me to know what these people did afterward considering the incompatibility between statistics of this kind and individual freedoms. On the other hand, I can say that the persons who practiced it properly while keeping contact with me have presented all the criteria of balance I mentioned earlier, except rare exceptions (for example a child with a brain tumor impairing his alliesthesic regulation so that he started to eat cassia fistula in exaggerated quantity and the experiment had to be stopped).

Quote
In my personal experience with instincto, I have found that I simply cannot sustain my body on the long run with only 2 meals a day, generally based on plant food (animal products being not an everyday food).


Preliminary questions (to understand what happened to you, I would need the following data): how did you practice the experiment? By applying which method of foodstuff selection and quantity regulation? Which frequency of exceptions? With what kind of provisioning? What kind of training and knowledge? What were your antecedents? How long did you practice properly?

The two meals advice has never been meant to be an absolute rule, but a way of leaving the vicious circle induced by too many daily meals or nibbling. Of course, no one is obliged to respect it: it’s simply that most people feel better with two meals than with three. Moreover, after the first “waves of detoxination” are over, for a normal individual (sufficiently away from the disorders induced by cooked food) and with a normal working time, there isn’t any hunger feeling in the morning. It’s possible that you interpreted as a weakness due to a lack of food the reactions of elimination related to your previous diet. A mainly carnivorous diet, from the imbalance it induces, blocks these reactions and can give the impression of a better metabolic state. Nevertheless, most long term instinctos (and myself as well) are fine with a daily or almost daily consumption of some animal products.

Quote
it is not without good reasons that Dominique Guyaux has proposed in his "AIR" to eat several mono-meals a day.


To my knowledge, Guyaux developed his “AIR” (Alimentation Instinctive Raisonnée) in order to avoid bad food associations produced by too complex meals. The idea was to allow digestion to take place under the best conditions of simplicity with sufficiently spaced single foodstuff meals. I tried myself to apply this method (which remains basically instincto), but it rather led me to a permanent bad digestion, the digestion of the preceding meal being still incomplete when a new need for food occurred. Most people who tried the experiment and told me about it felt they drifted into a permanent nibble, probably because the digestive complications due to two insufficiently distant meals generate false hunger feelings (confusion between digestive dizziness and empty stomach).

Quote
Only on a (mainly) carnivorous diet can we make it with one (or two) big meals a day in terms of energy requirement, as I have experienced personally.

I for one feel infinitely lighter and dynamic with two meals including each one a few number of products (determined by the sensory signals). I know many hard laborers having no problem with two daily meals. Still, we have to get rid of the preconceived idea that we lack energy when our stomach is empty.

Quote
it seems that it is not a personal defect : many instinctos are underweight and lack energy (I have been to dozens of meetings these last ten years and that was striking!).  I have noticed that many of the few that succeed and that are not underweight generally eat more than 2 meals a day, unless they are physically inactive.

It's always misleading to trust visual observations as one can gather in a group while discussing here and there to draw some general conclusions. A whole series of bias can distort impressions collected randomly:
• the majority of instinctos are former survivors of the SWD and very often of medicine, in particular former vegetarians or vegans;
• some are still inclined to vegetarian or vegan ideology;
• some embarked out in practice without the necessary knowledge;
• the gatherings preferentially attract people with health issues;
• there are strong unconscious resistances to respect the sense of smell in the selection of foodstuff, so that the majority do not practice the instinctotherapy in a strict sense;
• the standard of “normal” weight, such as drawn from the average population, is clearly above the medical standard;
• a serious observation cannot be done on the basis of visual impressions: one needs figures, for example to calculate the BMI of the participants, take the average, the standard deviation, and to compare with medical data of a normal staturo-ponderal balance. I’ve seen the ones who practice correctly to converge towards standard weight, obviously lower than general population average, bearing in mind the general epidemic of overweight and obesity.

Quote
The fluctuation of energy requirements during the day, and the fact that insuline production is determined primary by the size of the meal are IMO two good reasons that explain the failure of many instinctos on a 2-meals-a-day schedule.

The weakness feeling at the origin of this belief rather comes from the reactions of elimination starting when digestion is over; it is stopped by forcing the body into a new digestion process. These fluctuations disappear along the months or years of practice and are much more probably related to long-term phenomenon (such as detoxination) than with immediate processes (like postprandial shock).

That said, I fear that the carnivorous craze which invaded the paleo movement may have over the years disastrous consequences in immunizing disorders (gout, joints problems, autoimmune diseases and cancer) and other consequences of long-term imbalance. It is not with merely five years feedback that one can appreciate the results, but rather over ten or twenty years.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 12:56:30 am by GCB »

Offline GCB

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #80 on: July 12, 2010, 12:54:57 am »

To KD: I don’t forget you, Thanks for the better presentation of your June 27 post. I’ll reply next to your questions not already answered in both preceding posts.

carnivore

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #81 on: July 12, 2010, 04:55:54 am »
Preliminary questions (to understand what happened to you, I would need the following data): how did you practice the experiment? By applying which method of foodstuff selection and quantity regulation? Which frequency of exceptions? With what kind of provisioning? What kind of training and knowledge? What were your antecedents? How long did you practice properly?

I had no particular illness before trying instincto 13 years ago. During 5 years, and without exception, I ate according to my taste (barely used my olfaction) an all organic (orkos) rawpaleo diet, 2 meals a day, following the advices I found in your writings and given by many instinctos I met. I lost a lot of weight (ended up 48Kg for 1m82!) that I did not regain during the 5 years. I was also often tired (hypoglycemia), had many deficiencies (B12, minerals...) and hormonal inbalances. I now understand that it was mainly caused by a lack of calories : I simply could not absorb enough calories in 2 meals a day to fuel my body, given that I generally ate fruits in midday, vegetables and « protein » (nuts, seeds, oily fruits, seafood, fish and eggs) for dinner. I did not eat meat at that time, couldn't stomach it!, except lean chicken sometimes. Eating fatty meat regularly would have surely helped me as it is high in calories and has no fibers.


Quote
It’s possible that you interpreted as a weakness due to a lack of food the reactions of elimination related to your previous diet. A mainly carnivorous diet, from the imbalance it induces, blocks these reactions and can give the impression of a better metabolic state. Nevertheless, most long term instinctos (and myself as well) are fine with a daily or almost daily consumption of some animal products.

My diet before was a SWD, not carnivorous.


Quote
To my knowledge, Guyaux developed his “AIR” (Alimentation Instinctive Raisonnée) in order to avoid bad food associations produced by too complex meals. The idea was to allow digestion to take place under the best conditions of simplicity with sufficiently spaced single foodstuff meals. I tried myself to apply this method (which remains basically instincto), but it rather led me to a permanent bad digestion, the digestion of the preceding meal being still incomplete when a new need for food occurred. Most people who tried the experiment and told me about it felt they drifted into a permanent nibble, probably because the digestive complications due to two insufficiently distant meals generate false hunger feelings (confusion between digestive dizziness and empty stomach).

For me, many small meals spread over the day are more easily digested than two big meals a day, and especially helps me to better fulfill my energy requirements. No more hypoglycemia due to a sudden excess of food intake.


Quote
I for one feel infinitely lighter and dynamic with two meals including each one a few number of products (determined by the sensory signals). I know many hard laborers having no problem with two daily meals. Still, we have to get rid of the preconceived idea that we lack energy when our stomach is empty.

My fatigue was not caused by a feeling of an empty stomach : my energy was ok in the morning as long as I didn't eat. The first meal of fruits maked my blood sugar went up and down...

Quote
• the majority of instinctos are former survivors of the SWD and very often of medicine, in particular former vegetarians or vegans;
• some are still inclined to vegetarian or vegan ideology;
• some embarked out in practice without the necessary knowledge;
• the gatherings preferentially attract people with health issues;
• there are strong unconscious resistances to respect the sense of smell in the selection of foodstuff, so that the majority do not practice the instinctotherapy in a strict sense;
• the standard of “normal” weight, such as drawn from the average population, is clearly above the medical standard;
• a serious observation cannot be done on the basis of visual impressions: one needs figures, for example to calculate the BMI of the participants, take the average, the standard deviation, and to compare with medical data of a normal staturo-ponderal balance. I’ve seen the ones who practice correctly to converge towards standard weight, obviously lower than general population average, bearing in mind the general epidemic of overweight and obesity.

I am talking about long term emaciated instinctos...
 
I still believe that many instinctos don't get enough calories with 2 big meals a day, because fruits which make at least generally half of the food intake of the day are not very calorie-dense (not to mention vegetables which are even worst at this regard). It would be very easy to calculate the amount of calories ingested a day and compare it with the energy requirement. I estimate that I was often 20% below my needs, whatever the amount of avocados or dates I could eat!


Quote
The weakness feeling at the origin of this belief rather comes from the reactions of elimination starting when digestion is over; it is stopped by forcing the body into a new digestion process. These fluctuations disappear along the months or years of practice and are much more probably related to long-term phenomenon (such as detoxination) than with immediate processes (like postprandial shock).

These reactions of elimination have almost disappeared with mono-meals evenly spread over the day according to my energy requirements, to the extend that I can now get up hungry (for energy), something that never happened with 2 meals a day as the digestion process of the previous complicated meal the day before was still pending!

Quote
That said, I fear that the carnivorous craze which invaded the paleo movement may have over the years disastrous consequences in immunizing disorders (gout, joints problems, autoimmune diseases and cancer) and other consequences of long-term imbalance. It is not with merely five years feedback that one can appreciate the results, but rather over ten or twenty years.

Indeed...

Offline Hanna

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #82 on: July 12, 2010, 01:34:27 pm »

Gcb, you wrote:

>>The following question, much more subtle, is to know if these variations are able to ensure a satisfactory nutritional balance. It is therefore necessary to observe individuals agreeing to respect them (something not obvious), in particular by ending the intake of each foodstuff as soon as it becomes unpleasant, and by observing the rules imposed by comparative observation of the results. The purpose of these rules is to bring nutritional conditions closer to those of a primitive environment. It definitely proved that the sensory mechanisms work correctly under precise conditions only, conditions sufficiently close to the living conditions in which theses mechanisms evolved. I succeeded in convincing, during dozens of years, approximately twelve thousand people to try the experiment.

If you claim: "It definitely proved that the sensory mechanisms work correctly under precise conditions only, conditions sufficiently close to the living conditions in which theses mechanisms evolved", then you must be able to define these conditions and say in which kind of "primitive environment" we evolved! Obviously you did not have Greenland or Canada in mind?


Offline Hanna

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #83 on: July 12, 2010, 01:35:45 pm »
And then, when carnivore wondered about these "twelve thousand people" you wrote:

>>I’ve always presented the instincto as a personal experience to be initially tried for about three weeks, even if one wishes to continue it thereafter. I can thus estimate at twelve thousand the number of people who carried out the experiment, but it is difficult for me to know what these people did afterward

But concerning the carnivorous diet:
>>It is not with merely five years feedback that one can appreciate the results, but rather over ten or twenty years.

Precisely for that reason your twelve thousand people are completly irrelevant and prove precisely nothing! You can fast for three weeks. Is this an evidence that this kind of nutrition (= fasting) causes a "satisfactory nutritional balance"?

>>The case of adults on a traditional diet (SWD or various diets) switching to instincto diet is also very persuasive: the absence of long-term deficiency, the fulfilling of old deficiencies, their body index of mass (BMI) and many criteria of health show that they not only get the raw food benefits, but also an extremely precise nutritional regulation. The few divergent results (...)

"FEW divergent results" is completely ridiculous and you know that!
« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 01:48:53 pm by Hanna »

carnivore

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #84 on: July 12, 2010, 08:17:01 pm »
Yet, couldn't it be that the whole guru's babble about "instincts" is itself nothing more but a joke  ;D

Life becomes boring when we start totake things seriously...

Nothing serious here or anywhere else on this planet!

Offline GCB

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #85 on: July 12, 2010, 10:15:59 pm »
These observations had of course something that was reassuring : the original milieu or environment, whose existence is a basic premise of instinctotherapy since our genetics had necessarily to adapt to something in real world existed indeed somewhere.
Who wrote this about our supposed original environment or tropical paradise ?
Burger himself in 1991 here:
http://www.reocities.com/HotSprings/7627/IM43-fruitssauvages.html


As usual, Alphagruis extracts a sentence from its context and places it in another, so that the semantic contents change. With such a method, one can expose so-called “contradictions” in any speech!

The article from where this sentence is drawn opposes and discusses two points of view: one which disputes the past existence of an hypothetical “original paradise”, and the naive assertion of the existence of this paradise. I thus take in turn one and then the other point of view to show that, with the support of facts, the postulate of a tropical “primal” environment where the genetics of the primates could have evolved is not inevitably an aberration.

But attention: I wrote this text in 1991, which means that all the instincto theory was carried out since 1964 without this postulate being necessary. It was indeed based on concrete observations, without this point having inevitably to be sorted out. The whole  article thus shows exactly the opposite of what Alphagruis claims to deduce.

Our physiological data come indeed (at least partly) from very ancient times: our eye for example existed well before the vertebrate’s appearance. Why our alliesthesic mechanisms wouldn't be as old and quite as elaborate as our eyesight? But to be able to count on the hereditary feature of the operation of our sensory perceptions, it’s not necessary to postulate the existence of an environment where all the data to which they can correctly react today had been joined together. Our genome could be built by successive stages, accumulating the answers to partial and transient situations, which indeed exempts of the postulate of an ideal primitive environment.

However, the observations done for example at Borneo show that this environment could exist, and it’s good to know, even more as the operation of the alimentary instinct explains why it fails in places where men could modify it under the influence of the food changes such as cooking and seasoning (without forgetting the consecutive devastations of agriculture and consumption of cereals and animal milk).

But once again: the postulate of a primitive paradise doesn’t change anything to the basic instincto argument, neither to my own observations nor to its results. And the concerned article shows precisely that this postulate is an additional question, as opposed to what Alphagruis would like to make us believe – or perhaps to what he believes himself...


« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 12:24:26 am by GCB »

Offline GCB

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #86 on: July 12, 2010, 11:22:42 pm »
If you claim: "It definitely proved that the sensory mechanisms work correctly under precise conditions only, conditions sufficiently close to the living conditions in which theses mechanisms evolved", then you must be able to define these conditions and say in which kind of "primitive environment" we evolved! Obviously you did not have Greenland or Canada in mind?

It seems you did not read properly my post. It is unnecessary that such an environment exists in the form of an original paradise. Our genetics could include the ones of various animals we evolved from and memorize numerous partial situations, by adapting for example the alliesthesic mechanisms during a period to such or such new plant, during another to consumption of the meat of a specific animal, etc. It can thus gather all kinds of data making the organism able to function as well as possible in a global alimentary context, and it is this context which I tried to define empirically. The facts showed the need to exclude cooked, seasoned and crushed food, dairy products and cereal, and to be careful with  artificially selected modern foodstuff (be it fruits, vegetables, or meat of domestic animals).

Quote
Precisely for that reason your twelve thousand people are completly irrelevant and prove precisely nothing! You can fast for three weeks. Is this an evidence that this kind of nutrition (= fasting) causes a "satisfactory nutritional balance"?

A number of people went on not only for 3 weeks, but for years or tens of years! Nevertheless, some short-term criteria, like regulation of the inflammatory tendency, key process considering its central role in health maintenance, show that the balance obtained is extremely precise. I could observe it in quite all of the cases I followed.

Quote
" FEW diverge results" is completely ridiculous and you know that!

You now insinuate I’m two-faced? If that's the way it is I don't see why I would continue to answer your questions...

In the cases I followed and when the person practiced accordingly to the rules I defined from the experience, I indeed noted only a negligible minority of divergent results. It doesn’t mean that some of practitioners didn’t do all kinds of errors and paid the consequences. I can obviously speak only about the cases I know and of the periods during which I followed their evolution.

But after 46 years of observations, I readily bet to see the supposed divergent results disappear for anyone practicing under my control and find the cause in a bad application of the instinctotherapy principles such as I defined them. For example, I deeply regret that Alphagruis, who failed to get a mycosis regressing by applying his own kind of instincto nutrition, refused to come and spend a few days or weeks at a mutual friend place as I had invited him, so that we could jointly discover the causes of his failure – probably a bad application of the alliesthesic signals.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 12:25:04 am by GCB »

Offline GCB

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #87 on: July 13, 2010, 03:26:31 am »
I had no particular illness before trying instincto 13 years ago. During 5 years, and without exception, I ate according to my taste (barely used my olfaction) an all organic (orkos) rawpaleo diet, 2 meals a day, following the advices I found in your writings and given by many instinctos I met. I lost a lot of weight (ended up 48Kg for 1m82!) that I did not regain during the 5 years. I was also often tired (hypoglycemia), had many deficiencies (B12, minerals...) and hormonal inbalances. I now understand that it was mainly caused by a lack of calories : I simply could not absorb enough calories in 2 meals a day to fuel my body, given that I generally ate fruits in midday, vegetables and « protein » (nuts, seeds, oily fruits, seafood, fish and eggs) for dinner. I did not eat meat at that time, couldn't stomach it!, except lean chicken sometimes. Eating fatty meat regularly would have surely helped me as it is high in calories and has no fibers.

You are rather an example of what shouldn’t be done:

• I always specified in my books and conferences that it’s necessary to be extremely careful in the practical application of instinctive nutrition, and not to start without a valid formation. You should at least have listen to my seminar’s audiotapes. The theoretical explanations I give in “La Guerre du Cru” along with few added advices gathered from others instinctos are not enough to insure success. I duly informed readers not to undertake anything carelessly, and you bypassed my advice.
 • You obviously did not use the sense of smell, as it should be done to start correctly. You would then probably have discovered that it was an error to deprive to you of any meat.
• By seeing your weight drop, it was immediately necessary to seek the error, for example to contact or follow a seminar to understand what did not work.
• A tiredness feeling can come from multiple causes. What was your B12 rate, for example? How did you note a mineral deficiency? If an unspecified deficiency proved, it was immediately necessary to seek serious contacts to identify its cause. There are no deficiencies with a correctly practiced instincto (but a correct practice includes meat, which inevitably cannot be replaced by eggs or seafood).
• It’s completely aberrant to imply that a diet instinctively balanced does not bring enough calories with two daily meals. All measurements and observations showed that the contribution is perfectly sufficient. On the contrary, I know many people who find their energy with one daily meal only, while providing a normal work. Moreover, it’s not necessary to eat before the effort, the reserves of glycogen being largely sufficient to await the following meal. You probably confused the tiredness feeling with the effects of an imbalance due to a defective practice, or with those of an out of control detoxination caused by bad balance. The fact of not being able to digest meat clearly shows something was wrong. It would be for example interesting to know if you were breastfed?

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My diet before was a SWD, not carnivorous.

You did not understand my paragraph. I did not say that your former diet was carnivorous, but that carnivorism (or rather lack of some elements of vegetal origin) could cause a cancellation of detoxination reactions induced by your former food. That’s regrettable in the long-term.

Quote
For me, many small meals spread over the day are more easily digested than two big meals a day, and especially helps me to better fulfill my energy requirements. No more hypoglycemia due to a sudden excess of food intake.

My fatigue was not caused by a feeling of an empty stomach : my energy was ok in the morning as long as I didn't eat. The first meal of fruits maked my blood sugar went up and down...

Question: how do you measure your blood sugar rate? Tiredness after the meals is an usual sign of detoxination (or possibly of food overload)

Quote
I am talking about long term emaciated instinctos...
 I still believe that many instinctos don't get enough calories with 2 big meals a day, because fruits which make at least generally half of the food intake of the day are not very calorie-dense (not to mention vegetables which are even worst at this regard). It would be very easy to calculate the amount of calories ingested a day and compare it with the energy requirement. I estimate that I was often 20% below my needs, whatever the amount of avocados or dates I could eat!

Question: how did you measure this lack of calorie? With 500 g of avocados and dates, the normal need is already exceeded.

As you say, it is very easy to calculate the quantity of calories ingested daily: I did it on several occasions and in all kinds of circumstances, even over a year with about fifteen people, and the results have shown that there isn’t the least problem. The instinctos consume on average 1800 to 2200 calories per day. The risk, in the event of bad practice, is rather to eat too much, and tiredness comes then from secondary complications, not of a simplistic lack of calories.

Quote
These reactions of elimination have almost disappeared with mono-meals evenly spread over the day according to my energy requirements, to the extend that I can now get up hungry (for energy), something that never happened with 2 meals a day as the digestion process of the previous complicated meal the day before was still pending!

If your made up meal wasn’t digested after four hours, and if your stomach was not empty after the night, it’s because you made a general “salad”, bad associations and other infringement at listening to your alliesthesic signals. That can happen if one eats “like a pig”, forgive the expression, but never with a minimally balanced instincto.

That can also come from a defective provisioning (what did you really buy at Orkos?). At all events, you should have announced difficulties of this kind, like I regularly requested in seminars, and I bet the causes would have been quickly identified. The absence of selection by the sense of smell could be one.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 03:35:06 am by GCB »

Offline Susan

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #88 on: July 13, 2010, 03:39:40 am »
Dear carnivore, dear alphagruis,

do you have any dentures, fillings or crowns in your teeth? What about tattoos?

Susan

Offline GCB

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #89 on: July 13, 2010, 05:34:17 am »


Burger, we do not insinuate that you are two-faced.

You are obviously two-faced of course as well as a perverse double-dealer and manipulator.

Moreover you're a plain lier

My mycosis has been cured since long as I reported on the French forum and you know that perfectly well as well as you know perfectly well that instinctotherapy in general just doesn't and cannot work

I know you didn't like the way I've cured my mycosis.

But don't be irritated. You'll finally manage to fool one more naive people, perhaps, some day  :D


This time it becomes serious, because you lie shamelessly:

1.   you endured your mycosis for years and you cured it very recently only;

2.   you certainly suffered since you went trough a specific chelation therapy to heal it;

3.   that’s’why I offered you last November to experiment instinctotherapy such as I teach it, especially to choose food according to your senses of smell and taste.

4.   you declined my offer and preferred to go through an alternative therapy which recently cured you as you announced triumphantly a few weeks ago.

I am very glad for you that this therapy worked, but nevertheless your own way of practicing instincto-nutrition or your raw paleo diet did not help you, whereas a correct alimentary balance systematically avoids the inflammations and itching, and habitually make mycosis regress (except onychomycosis which need an intervention).

Riddle: which side is the plain liar?



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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #90 on: July 13, 2010, 05:52:56 am »
I deeply regret that Alphagruis, who failed to get a mycosis regressing by applying his own kind of instincto nutrition (…)

Moreover you're a plain lier

Alpha, it looks like you also fail to understand properly the meaning of the above sentence. It means, as I understand it, that you failed to get a mycosis regressing by applying your own kind of instincto-nutrition (…). It doesn’t mean that you didn’t get rid of it by other means.

Please, stop your insults and sarcasms. You should know it’s not tolerated here.

Dear carnivore, dear alphagruis,
do you have any dentures, fillings or crowns in your teeth? What about tattoos?
Susan

Why this question, Susan? Do tattoos and teeth fillings increase spectacularly rudeness, dishonesty and aggressivity?  :o
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #91 on: July 13, 2010, 11:21:21 am »
Dear Iguana,

you asked if tattoos and teeth fillings increase spectacularly rudeness, dishonesty and aggressivity. I don't think so. :) But in my opinion it's impossible to cure a person with instinctive nutrition having toxic materials within teeth or somewhere else in the body.

Susan

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #92 on: July 13, 2010, 01:17:19 pm »
>>Do tattoos and teeth fillings increase spectacularly rudeness, dishonesty and aggressivity?

Susan´s  German instincto guru thinks so.

>>But in my opinion it's impossible to cure a person with instinctive nutrition having toxic materials within teeth or somewhere else in the body.

And because of this opinion the German followers of this guy have  removed all their dentures and fillings or even their teeth...

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #93 on: July 13, 2010, 01:22:30 pm »
Carnivore, do you still have problems to digest meat?

Carnivore & gcb, if one has digestive problems, then it can be very usefull or even necessary to eat small portions (gcb, please ask a physician if you do not believe me). Small portions are quickly digested, so it is no problem to eat more than two times a day. 

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #94 on: July 13, 2010, 01:25:55 pm »
Dear carnivore, dear alphagruis,

do you have any dentures, fillings or crowns in your teeth? What about tattoos?

Susan

No tatoos, but amalgam dental fillings (and other causes of heavy metal) contamination since I was 7 years old and removed only 40 years later. This mycosis appeared later on and then persisted more or less during 7 years. I finally cured it by means of a mercury and lead chelation.

The following string of abuse has been moved here
Iguana
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 02:26:50 pm by Iguana »

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #95 on: July 13, 2010, 02:22:24 pm »
Dear Hanna,

I removed my fillings and crowns twenty years ago without leadership of a guru. :) But I started my instinctive nutrition experiments without meat. And maybe this is the reason, why tooth decay continued. I decided after a few years to use ceramics. Later on my former dentist used synthetic materials, too. I am now living 3 und a half year 100% raw and after one year instinctive nutrition I removed this fillings again with the aid of another dentist, who is one of those who recognized a lot of problems by different patients caused by dental materials. Now I am curious if tooth decay stops with the help of 100% instictive nutrition. It is a real scientific experiment. :)

alphagruis, mycosis is only a symptom. It shows that your body was and maybe is still full of heavy metalls. The disappearing of this symptom with the help of  mercury and lead chelation doesn't mean that your really cured. Do you really feel good after this therapy? Vanished other health problems? What about your memory, your feelings?

Susan


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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #96 on: July 13, 2010, 02:50:59 pm »

alphagruis, mycosis is only a symptom. It shows that your body was and maybe is still full of heavy metalls. The disappearing of this symptom with the help of  mercury and lead chelation doesn't mean that your really cured. Do you really feel good after this therapy? Vanished other health problems? What about your memory, your feelings?

Susan



Susan, I had no other serious health problems or symptoms left after 10 years on Raw Paleo.

 I'm now quite well, busy and happy.

I'm a hobby pilot and a sailor. Recently resumed flying and passed easily the medical tests to validate my flying license again. Sailed around Ireland this spring during one week alone on board. Passed and got a hunting license in March.

And finally got a 30 years younger girl-friend since december 2009....  ;)


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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #97 on: July 13, 2010, 07:35:58 pm »
Dear alphagruis, 

thank you for this open und personal answer. :) If you feel well and happy you really found your way to help yourself.

Susan

Offline Iguana

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #98 on: July 13, 2010, 08:10:37 pm »
Susan, I had no other serious health problems or symptoms left after 10 years on Raw Paleo.
I'm now quite well, busy and happy.
I'm a hobby pilot and a sailor. Recently resumed flying and passed easily the medical tests to validate my flying license again. Sailed around Ireland this spring during one week alone on board. Passed and got a hunting license in March.
And finally got a 30 years younger girl-friend since december 2009....  ;)

Wow! I’m very glad for you, my old friend!

Burger and his very last remaining servant and follower Iguana are of course not only plain liers in general and in particular whenever the facts don't fit with their nonsense about "instincts" but they are also utterly ridiculous in the present instance as in so many others.

Thanks a lot for these lovely birthday’s congratulations, Gerard. It’s good to finally know after 64 years of ignorance that I’m a plain, utterly ridiculous liar. Knowledge is such an invaluable thing.  ???
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline GCB

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Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« Reply #99 on: July 13, 2010, 09:15:40 pm »


Burger and his very last remaining servant and follower Iguana are of course not only plain liers in general and in particular whenever the facts don't fit with their nonsense about "instincts" but they are also utterly ridiculous in the present instance as in so many others.


To treat the others of liars without being able to show the lie and lie oneself has always been the ultimate recourse of those who got short of valid arguments.


 

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