Author Topic: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?  (Read 18714 times)

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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2010, 12:37:43 am »
He might go along with semi-Paleo, as he terms his approach PaleoNu instead of Paleo--I'm not sure; but we're getting away from my point, which is that all people who call themselves Paleo don't do so because they believe in an anti-science philosophy of blind emulation. That is clearly wrong. I know it's not true of me and it only takes one example to disprove a broad slander like that one. It's not true of you, is it?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline pioneer

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2010, 08:40:43 pm »
How do you guys all know you can not digest dairy properly. I feel fine drinking milk, no upset stomach at all, and have no allergies to it (according to blood allergy tests). But how do I really know I should not drink it? Should I not drink it just because of principle? Currently I only drink raw milk from jersey cows because they dont have A1 casein.
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2010, 09:04:39 pm »
How do you guys all know you can not digest dairy properly. I feel fine drinking milk, no upset stomach at all, and have no allergies to it (according to blood allergy tests). But how do I really know I should not drink it? Should I not drink it just because of principle? Currently I only drink raw milk from jersey cows because they dont have A1 casein.

I believe is you have the capacity to digest milk properly, then it is your call if you want to consume it regularly as Aajonus does.

I've had too many tummy aches trying different raw animal milks from goat, cow, carabao and they only gave me misery.  Taste good, suffer later.  Even Yon Yonson tried the cow's milk here and his stomach got upset.  Maybe the local milk in my area is bad stuff.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2010, 12:30:13 am »
  There are various signs re allergies. I for example had mucus in my nose a lot pre-RPD diet, which is a common aspect of dairy-allergy(the mucus comes from casein in the dairy which cannot be digested properly). No one, not even doctors,  had the sense to tell me that this was abnormal, so I just used up tons of tissues to clean my nose all the time.

The trouble is that one can still be allergic to something but not necessarily have any overt symptoms. For example, the raw dairy might only cause mild inflammation somewhere in your digestive system, not enough to cause pain or an overt symptom, but still something that could slow down healing from injuries etc.
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Offline pioneer

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2010, 08:43:38 am »
I have had that same issue but have not drank milk in a year, until I came across raw milk. So I've had that issue even without any milk and it pisses me off all the time. I constantly have to clear my nose and never know what it is. But the worst reaction I get from food is any grain products. My stomach hurts and is bloated.
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Offline raw-al

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2010, 09:10:30 am »
Pioneer,
What colour is the top of your tongue when you look in the mirror? Is it white or is there a frothiness ?
Cheers
Al

Offline ster546464@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2010, 06:54:23 am »
well, lets look at it

most paleo's will say they avoid the big 3
dairy,
legumes
grains

yet, cultured dairy is fine in small amounts
soaked and sprouted legumes and grains are okay, as long as its done long enough for about 2 days

and as long as it doesnt go over about 10 per cent of your diet, they shouldnt affect your health much , like things associated with excessive grain use

Paleo diet is just philosophy and ideology. Just so you can call yourself a paleo eater ? so what ? thats just ego



Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2010, 07:01:43 am »
Well, Ster, since you've apparently decided to ignore the contents of my response, then I'll do the same as regards your latest post.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2010, 08:01:29 am »
Paleo diet is just philosophy and ideology. Just so you can call yourself a paleo eater ? so what ? thats just ego

Come on.  People aren't into raw paleo diet for the ego.
Some of us are / were sick.
And some of us just want to be really healthy.
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Offline pioneer

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2010, 10:12:11 am »
well, lets look at it

most paleo's will say they avoid the big 3
dairy,
legumes
grains

yet, cultured dairy is fine in small amounts
soaked and sprouted legumes and grains are okay, as long as its done long enough for about 2 days

and as long as it doesnt go over about 10 per cent of your diet, they shouldnt affect your health much , like things associated with excessive grain use

Paleo diet is just philosophy and ideology. Just so you can call yourself a paleo eater ? so what ? thats just ego




On what grounds are these foods "ok"? Do you know the physiology of grains, legumes, and dairy, and how they work in the body? Do you know how a human digests food? Grains and legumes are the worst of the bunch, if you wanna consume raw milk, fine, as long as you dont have a problem with it. However, I/we care very little what anybody says about who ate what in this period of time and that period of time. Why? because modern science proves what foods we can properly digest, assimilate, and utilize. Modern science knows that heating foods, and certainly frying foods (but heating foods in general) creates a whole s*$t load of toxins and carcinogens. These carcinogens range from lipid peroxides, AGEs(Advanced Glycation Endproducts), heterocyclic amines, acrylamides, arsenic, to estrogen, and mutagens. Dont test us with the science behind the issue, most of us on here have a plethora of documents regarding these issues. Hell, there are whole entire text books written on heterocyclic amines and arsenic alone. And it doesnt take much for a scientist to isolate those carcinogens from food. Most of the levels of these carcinogens and toxins are over 1000 times higher than the limits of what water companies test for in their drinking water. Besides cooking, naturally, grains and legumes are very toxic and have toxins ranging from enzyme inhibitors, lectins, inflammation causing toxins. Though the uneducated theorist would say, well then cook them. Well, remember what I just said above about heat created carcinogens, and toxins, this applies to all food, some worse, some less. And even still, after cooking, fermenting, sprouting, etc... No scientist was ever able to rid grains and legumes of all the toxins. In fact Estrogen is the most resistant and even proper soy fermentation will still show high estrogens in the bean.

Almost all grains and legumes contain trypsin inhibitors. The enzyme trypsin that comes from your pancreas and raw food is the main enzyme against all cancers. Why would you want to inhibit the enzyme that will destroy cancer? All grains and legumes contain allergens, no matter what kind, doesnt matter. The philosophy of our diet is the strongest around. Most people cant break free from the clutches of societal norms and would rather be "normal" and keep eating nice juicy cheesesteaks and pizza. However we RPDers eat to live, not live to eat. We abide by the wisdom of nature, not man. And we consider ourselves just as much animal as any other species on this planet. No other animal/ species on this planet eats cooked food. If they do, they have cancer. this has been observed in most house hold pets. What makes humans so arrogant to think we can just disregard the simply laws of nature and eat cooked food? We are not aliens.

Friend, I hate to burst you bubble, but it must be done sir. All of the information and science regarding food has pretty much already been done. Sure there's more to study in food science. But if you believe that the government and FDA, or any other agency/ institution have gotten your back and gives you high quality and safe food, you're in fairy tale land. I dont say all this to be an arrogant dick either, its to help you. Please make the right choice.
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Offline ster546464@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2010, 08:17:30 am »
http://www.healingourchildren.net/food_nutrition_health.htm

weston price proved you could be healthy on grains and dairy

anyway, clever people know that they contain enzyme inhibitors, so thats why they ferment/ or culture them

so what no other animal cooks food ? we're not animals . animals dont sit on computers, drive cars, so what ?
thats a silly argument

your logic makes no sense.

An ideal diet would be a paleo based diet, but ideal for what is the main question . ?
most people have the same goals and ambitions and emotions anyway regardless of the food they eat


Offline ster546464@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2010, 08:21:00 am »
back to the topic

you asked the difference in aajonus diet and paleo diet

and i told you he eats bread and dairy and a little cooked food

i then attempted to justify it, fairly i guess, and said you could still be healthy with those foods in a very small amount


Offline ezekiel

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2010, 09:17:14 am »

so what no other animal cooks food ? we're not animals . animals dont sit on computers, drive cars, so what ?
thats a silly argument



We are animals, were just another species.
We are unique and different of course. As are many other animals.

Did humans evolve with computers and cars? NO
 Did we evolve eating raw foods? YES

Offline ster546464@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2010, 09:29:00 am »
We are animals, were just another species.
We are unique and different of course. As are many other animals.

Did humans evolve with computers and cars? NO
 Did we evolve eating raw foods? YES

obviously what you say is correct, but is completely irrelevant.
based on your logic we SHOULD eat raw dairy and raw soaked legumes, because, well, its raw

We're not discussing raw, we're discussing dairy, legumes and grains

Offline ezekiel

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2010, 09:52:37 am »
obviously what you say is correct, but is completely irrelevant.
based on your logic we SHOULD eat raw dairy and raw soaked legumes, because, well, its raw

We're not discussing raw, we're discussing dairy, legumes and grains
let be more specif we evolved eating mainly raw wild animals and raw seasonal plants

not dairy, and sprouted legumes and grains,

cave paintings were of animals prehistoric people hunted, they were so important to their existence,

they didn't paint milking cows and soaking seeds, they would have painted them too if they were of such importance to survival

Offline pioneer

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2010, 11:27:41 am »
http://www.healingourchildren.net/food_nutrition_health.htm

weston price proved you could be healthy on grains and dairy

anyway, clever people know that they contain enzyme inhibitors, so thats why they ferment/ or culture them

so what no other animal cooks food ? we're not animals . animals dont sit on computers, drive cars, so what ?
thats a silly argument

your logic makes no sense.

An ideal diet would be a paleo based diet, but ideal for what is the main question . ?
most people have the same goals and ambitions and emotions anyway regardless of the food they eat



Sorry, but if you wanna be the healthiest you can be, drop the legumes, grains, and dairy. No it does not matter whether you ferment them or not. Fermenting and sprouting is propaganda. It only gets rid of some of the toxins. Science studies prove that many toxins still remain no matter what is done to them. My logic is actually very simple and makes complete sense. Its not even logic, its fact. did you read my post? Answer this question: If we are not animals than what are we?
Weston A Price analyzed people's teeth and physical appearance. He showed that degeneration occurred when eating denatured, cooked, and processed food. Is that not what I said we humans eat, that animals don't? Are you contradicting yourself? Did you read Nutrition and physical degeneration? Did you read Pottenger's cats? These books prove the dangers of cooked foods.
Just because Weston Price's studies of teeth and physical appearance were quite great for showing degeneration, they dont tell us much of allergies, inflammation, and any internal problems. However, just because the mountain swiss ate sprouted bread and raw milk, and didnt have any carries or rotting, and "appeared" to be in good health does not mean they were in optimal health. Im not saying his studies were not great, they were, but they did not show the internal side of the story, they did not show what happened in the body, or provide information on the vitality of the individuals. Therefore, I am sorry to say it, but to say that the groups who ate bread were healthy is just suspicion. Once again, we dont care so much about what happened, and when, more so of what we know now. You could eat bread and think your healthy all day, we dont care. The only thing that means anything relevant is what we know now. Chemists isolate compounds and make experiments to see how they react. They then observe individuals to see similar reactions when consuming that compound. Science knows what is optimal and what isnt.

And I hate to burst your bubble, but if you think that comparing us to animals is not important, you are living in fairy town. Every scientist knows 99.9% of scientific testing is done on animals. Once done on animals, then they can prove theories, or do further testing on people. You can contradict the fact that we are animals all you want, but it is the same as contradicting 99.9% of science, which inevitably would mean you'd be contradicting yourself in the end.
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Offline pioneer

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2010, 11:33:34 am »
Pioneer,
What colour is the top of your tongue when you look in the mirror? Is it white or is there a frothiness ?

Sorry I didnt respond to your post earlier. My tongue always appears white on top. What does that mean?
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Offline raw-al

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2010, 02:40:08 pm »
At the time you indicated that...
"I constantly have to clear my nose and never know what it is. "
Your body gets rid of things it doesn't need anymore or toxins through the breath, sweat, faeces, urine, snot and gas. If you have excessive amounts of mucus in your nose that is a good thing because it means that it is being expelled.

In Ayurveda when food is not digested properly, sometimes the undigested food is not expelled and it makes its way into the bloodstream and flows around the body till it finds a weak spot, settles there and starts the disease process. You can tell the presence of undigested food in the system by the colour of the tongue. If it is white there is undigested food or ama (basically toxins) in your system. Different colours mean different things ie red, yellow, brown and black. This doesn't mean you will die tonight in your sleep as it can be a slow process and it usually results in chronic conditions.

To get rid of this stuff on your tongue, I would suggest that you use a tongue scraper if you can find one or just use a spoon to scrape this white off your tongue first thing in the morning. Don't tear the skin off, but just give it a comfortable scrape.

To flush it out of your system you can try putting water in a copper cup in the evening before bed and then in the AM drink the water. DO NOT boil the water in the copper or put hot water in the cup, just normal tap temperature cool water. If you can't find a copper cup take some copper (say a penny and wash it very well) and put it in a regular cup. The copper has the effect of scrubbing your innards and will activate your digestion, so that the foods will be digested better and thus no ama on your tongue. This may be too strong for some people so it may not be appropriate to do it everyday. If it is too strong you may just get a slightly sour or acidic effect from it, depending on your individual system. This may help your mucus in the nose issue. It is difficult to diagnose from a computer screen and I am not psychic ;) so this is just an educated guess.

Another possibility might be to have some lemon with your food or something else with a strong pungent flavour.
The best which may be too strong for some people is to mix a very small amount of salt with a very small amount of lemon and have a small pinch of this before eating. Just chew it up and hold it in your mouth for a bit.

Obviously not paleo but neither are the lives we lead.
Cheers
Al

Offline raw-al

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2010, 03:03:35 pm »
I forgot to add that you can also tell the specific location of the toxins (Ama) in the body, by the sections of the tongue that are discoloured.
Cheers
Al

Offline Cinna

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2010, 08:35:17 pm »
they didn't paint milking cows and soaking seeds, they would have painted them too if they were of such importance to survival

Funny... :)

Offline fwadmin

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #45 on: September 11, 2010, 08:58:01 pm »
The paleo painters painted a lot of horses.
Must have been a favorite food.

Offline pioneer

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2010, 10:53:01 pm »
At the time you indicated that...
"I constantly have to clear my nose and never know what it is. "
Your body gets rid of things it doesn't need anymore or toxins through the breath, sweat, faeces, urine, snot and gas. If you have excessive amounts of mucus in your nose that is a good thing because it means that it is being expelled.

In Ayurveda when food is not digested properly, sometimes the undigested food is not expelled and it makes its way into the bloodstream and flows around the body till it finds a weak spot, settles there and starts the disease process. You can tell the presence of undigested food in the system by the colour of the tongue. If it is white there is undigested food or ama (basically toxins) in your system. Different colours mean different things ie red, yellow, brown and black. This doesn't mean you will die tonight in your sleep as it can be a slow process and it usually results in chronic conditions.

To get rid of this stuff on your tongue, I would suggest that you use a tongue scraper if you can find one or just use a spoon to scrape this white off your tongue first thing in the morning. Don't tear the skin off, but just give it a comfortable scrape.

To flush it out of your system you can try putting water in a copper cup in the evening before bed and then in the AM drink the water. DO NOT boil the water in the copper or put hot water in the cup, just normal tap temperature cool water. If you can't find a copper cup take some copper (say a penny and wash it very well) and put it in a regular cup. The copper has the effect of scrubbing your innards and will activate your digestion, so that the foods will be digested better and thus no ama on your tongue. This may be too strong for some people so it may not be appropriate to do it everyday. If it is too strong you may just get a slightly sour or acidic effect from it, depending on your individual system. This may help your mucus in the nose issue. It is difficult to diagnose from a computer screen and I am not psychic ;) so this is just an educated guess.

Another possibility might be to have some lemon with your food or something else with a strong pungent flavour.
The best which may be too strong for some people is to mix a very small amount of salt with a very small amount of lemon and have a small pinch of this before eating. Just chew it up and hold it in your mouth for a bit.

Obviously not paleo but neither are the lives we lead.

The stuff on my tongue does not bother me. Also, some of that stuff doesnt really make sense to me because my tongue is the whitest when I am sick and have excessive mucus. Could the white stuff just be mucus buildup? Or a way of getting rid of mucus? Either way, since I started this diet, my tongue color changed from white to pretty much red. I think that drinking milk makes more mucus. I was sick a week ago when I went back to school eating cafeteria food. When I got fed up with it, spent the extra $ and went raw again, the whiteness on my tongue is actually quickly receding. However, my nose is still always clogged, I think I need to quit the dairy.
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Offline raw-al

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2010, 12:22:20 am »
Red or more pinkish is the normal colour.
Cheers
Al

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2010, 03:42:17 am »
At the time you indicated that...
"I constantly have to clear my nose and never know what it is. "
Your body gets rid of things it doesn't need anymore or toxins through the breath, sweat, faeces, urine, snot and gas. If you have excessive amounts of mucus in your nose that is a good thing because it means that it is being expelled. ....
But chronically for years? When should the detox finally resolve? If it goes on forever that doesn't suggest to me that it's a healthy sign. When I ate a SAD I had chronic throat mucus, post-nasal drip and white tongue. It all greatly improved when I went Paleo and resolved when I adopted a carnivore diet.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline raw-al

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Re: What is the difference between Raw Paleo and Aajonus Vonderplanitz's diet?
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2010, 04:31:02 am »
For some reason that I cannot tell (from what I have listened to what you have said) you are consuming something that is the source of it.
Ayurveda has a principle or main idea that the quality and tastes of what you eat (or consume through any of the senses) obey the laws of similars in the sense that if you eat a lot of oily, unctuous, moist food you will have an excess of it in your system and it will tend to manifest or show up somewhere. That could be in gaining weight, illnesses of swelling, ie. oedema, puffiness, various kinds of liquid buildup or the preferable way which is to discharge it somewhere, which in your case is out the nose. So your immune system is doing it's job. Better to be blowing your nose than having real internal issues is what I am saying.

So to get rid of this issue you should reduce the amount of oily, unctuous, moist food consumption, or increase the digestive fire. Since I don't know what you eat I can guess that increasing the digestive fire is the key.

Eating dry, light, warm food is the other solution. These qualities; dry, light and warm are the opposite of wet, oily unctuous snot. Warm doesn't necessarily mean cooked BTW, it means not cold, say room temperature. Drying your meat in a natural way might fit the bill for instance. Maybe eat less. The flavour pungent is hot dry and light so maybe a bit of pungent flavour might not go astray. Maybe increase the amount of raw vege in your diet. Ayurveda is very simple really once you grasp certain principles. The devil is in the details.

If you increase the digestive fire then the food is properly metabolized and available to your body as nutrition, rather than becoming like smoke from a pisspoor fire which makes it's way into the bloodstream and ends up showing up on your tongue as a white coating. If the digestion is strong the excess crap will come out as crap.

In my case my nose is very dry. No moist snot. So when snot dries on the walls I have to either put some oil on my finger and coat the nostril to soften it so I can blow it out or I have to draw a bit of water in to get rid of it because picking it breaks the blood vessels and tears out the cilia which causes infection and increased size eventually leading to serious infections. So for me I have to increase consumption of wet, oily, unctuous foods. I 'll trade ya.  ;D
Cheers
Al

 

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