Author Topic: A day in the life of TylerDurden  (Read 339510 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nicola

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 452
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #300 on: December 26, 2009, 09:27:26 pm »
Due to some silly custom of my own, I used to eat dates around Christmas,. I did so today, and it was a rather foolish  decision. You see, most dates, even organic ones, must have additives in them or something, as whenever I ate dates since going rawpalaeo, my eyes would leak some black fluid so that it would look as though I had make-up  around my eyes.

Black fluid - sounds like your dates got metabolized so that some landed up in your tear glands...what goes in must come out / get taken care of / used!

In healthy mammalian eyes, the cornea is continually kept wet and nourished by basal tears. They lubricate the eye, and help to keep it clear of dust. Tear fluid contains water, mucin, lipids, lysozyme, lactoferrin, lipocalin, lacritin, immunoglobulins, glucose, urea, sodium, and potassium. Some of the substances in lacrimal fluid (such as lysozyme) fight against bacterial infection as a part of the immune system. Lysozyme does this by dissolving the outer coating of certain bacteria. It is a typical body fluid with a salt content similar to blood plasma. Usually, in a 24-hour period, 0.75 to 1.1 grams (0.03-0.04 ounce avoirdupois) of tears are secreted; this rate slows with age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tears

Nicola

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,513
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #301 on: December 26, 2009, 11:23:51 pm »
And here's why it's not for everyone:

"I must warn all of you that it is very unlikely that very many will be able to eat as I do over the long term, or in fact, to follow any diet for long which is much different from the one you were trained to as a baby/child. This is because diet is learned much the same way language, dress and behaviour is, and is buried deep and inaccessible, a part of your acculturation/socialisation. The very thing which makes us human is that deep and almost instinctive complex of behaviour."

From:http://activenocarber.myfreeforum.org/Bear_s_Words_Of_Wisdom_about22.html

Given the almost inhuman strength of my will, that's rather funny.  I have no trouble eating anything, if I decide to, and only that thing, for as long as I choose. :)

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #302 on: December 27, 2009, 12:05:59 am »
The eyes use tears etc. to get rid of detritus, so it's perfectly normal for the eyes to leak any toxins out. ...
Actually, I had never heard of this symptom until you mentioned it, Tyler, and couldn't find anything on the Net about it. Is there a name for it? Do you know what the "toxins" are? That doesn't mean it doesn't exist--just that it suggests that it's not very common.

Despite your frequently very negative posts about ZC, Tyler. According to your statement...

"My own view is that anywhere between 5-15% raw carbs, by calorie, is required as an optimum (for me) but that the 35% carbs that Cordain et al promote is rather too high."   
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/fats-and-cuts-of-meat/msg12169/#msg12169   

...your own level of carbs "required as an optimum" seems rather low. Just to make sure I understand you--is this what you consider your miminal requirements or optimal values? In other words, is 10% carbs what you consider to be about your "optimal" level of carb intake?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2009, 12:45:32 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #303 on: December 27, 2009, 03:11:07 am »
Actually, I had never heard of this symptom until you mentioned it, Tyler, and couldn't find anything on the Net about it. Is there a name for it? Do you know what the "toxins" are? That doesn't mean it doesn't exist--just that it suggests that it's not very common.

The effect was very minor and only occurred after eating dates and then only for 24 hours afterwards. If it had been even vaguely significant, I should have felt some pain or some other symptom. As it is, it's well-known that fluids from the eyes get rid of toxins(some research has been done on tears being useful for getting rid of toxins for example(though I wasn't crying at the time!LOL!). And, it's really no different from similiar negligible symptoms I've gotten after eating cooked animal foods(after eating the latter, my eyes routinely get heavy amounts of dust at the corners, merely a detox of some trace toxins. And, unlike with cooked animal foods, I get no other symptoms from consumption of dates.

Quote
Despite your frequently very negative posts about ZC, Tyler. According to your statement...

"My own view is that anywhere between 5-15% raw carbs, by calorie, is required as an optimum (for me) but that the 35% carbs that Cordain et al promote is rather too high."   
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/fats-and-cuts-of-meat/msg12169/#msg12169   

...your own level of carbs "required as an optimum" seems rather low. Just to make sure I understand you--is this what you consider your miminal requirements or optimal values? In other words, is 10% carbs what you consider to be about your "optimal" level of carb intake?

Having only a few carbs doesn't mean that one thinks they are unhealthy. Anyway, I, as I've mentioned before, can veer frequently between eating only raw carbs(raw fruit) for a week or two to just eating raw animal food and nothing else for 2 weeks(though I dare not overdo the latter, given past nasty experiences). I suppose it was rather grossly  inaccurate of me to give  percentages, however vague, for my diet, as so often, it's down to numerous factors such as whether my meat-supply is reliable at any time, to other factors such as the fact that I feel far too hot if I don't eat most of my intake as raw carbs in the hot summer, whereas I'll eat a higher percentage of raw meat in winter and fewer carbs). Plus, throughout my diet I've veered between high-carb, low-carb, very-low carb and even the more unusual zero-carb trial, and I'll eat more carbs during my various bursts of physical activity. In short, carbs don't bother me as such. I'm more concerned with eating lots of raw meat/fat to ward off possible nutritional deficiencies obtained on raw vegan/fruitarian diets, while at the same time avoiding ZC and near-ZC VLC because of the health-issues I had with ZC etc.

As for optimum ranges, I have no idea. I was under the (possibly erroneous) impression that the 35% of carbs in the diet  that Cordain et al recommend involved a very high intake of plants, so that in previous times, I aimed at lower-recommended figures.I suppose, now, I think a minimum of 5% carbs is best and a maximum of 25-35% carbs is ideal, these days.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2009, 03:20:47 am by TylerDurden »
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #304 on: December 27, 2009, 03:31:58 am »
The effect was very minor and only occurred after eating dates and then only for 24 hours afterwards. If it had been even vaguely significant, I should have felt some pain or some other symptom. As it is, it's well-known that fluids from the eyes get rid of toxins(some research has been done on tears being useful for getting rid of toxins for example(though I wasn't crying at the time!LOL!). And, it's really no different from similiar negligible symptoms I've gotten after eating cooked animal foods(after eating the latter, my eyes routinely get heavy amounts of dust at the corners, merely a detox of some trace toxins. And, unlike with cooked animal foods, I get no other symptoms from consumption of dates.
Again, I'm not doubting you, I've just never heard of black tears and find it interesting. Can you direct me somewhere for more info? I did use to get more "sand" in my eyes, and sometimes mucus, in the mornings when eating a higher-carb, partly cooked diet, though it was never black. My ophthalmologist told me that my eyes were inflamed/irritated or infected and gave me drops at the time. It's gone now and I rarely get any "sand" at all (unless I stay up too late and my eyes get tired and watery). Any idea what's in the black tears that makes them black? Sometimes knowledge about one symptom leads to other insights that may prove useful for the people who ask me for health info.

Quote
Anyway, I, as I've mentioned before, can veer frequently between eating only raw carbs(raw fruit) for a week or two to ...
Let me try to simplify things for the purposes of discussion. Is 10% a valid ROUGH estimate of what you consider your optimal carb intake? If not, please do propose whatever figure you feel is, and I will take it to be understood that this figure includes all the qualifiers you mentioned about variations in weekly intake, etc.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #305 on: December 27, 2009, 04:02:20 am »
I only know vaguely of sites focusing on tears and similiar fluids for getting rid of toxins from the eyes. You'd have to search. I'd guess that there must be some preservative in the dates which is causing the blackish colour. At any rate, I don't get the bloodshot eyes etc. with dates that  that I get with cooked animal foods.

As for exact percentage, I can't give a specific answer since my diet( like many others' it  varies constantly). All I can state is that I don't get any noticeable health-issues between 5-35% of carbs in my diet. My personal preferences obviously will change carb-percentages depending on whether I'm doing more exercise or am in winter/summer etc. I suppose the 5-15% figure is too vague and assumes certain things such as low physical activity with respect to the 5% figure etc.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #306 on: December 27, 2009, 04:09:58 am »
I only know vaguely of sites focusing on tears and similiar fluids for getting rid of toxins from the eyes. You'd have to search.  I'd guess that there must be some preservative in the dates which is causing the blackish colour.
I did search but didn't come up with anything. Any ideas what the preservative might be? Please forgive my ignorance.

Quote
As for exact percentage, I can't give a specific answer since my diet....
I don't want an exact percentage. As I mentioned elsewhere, I rarely deal in "exact," absolute, perfect, etc., as I find that such things rarely exist in the real world. I'm more interested in your ROUGH estimate of your optimal AVERAGE level of carb intake. The range is useful too, but I'd like a single figure to get a sense of how it compares to others. Granted, it's an oversimplification, but simplifications do tend to facilitate comparison and discussion as long as they are not taken as absolutes. You've given two very different ranges, so do take your time to consider what range you feel is best representative of your general overall experience--let's say over a period of a year or more. There are no "right" answers, I'm just looking for your best estimates. I think it might help give some perspective.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #307 on: December 27, 2009, 07:24:56 pm »
I did search but didn't come up with anything. Any ideas what the preservative might be? Please forgive my ignorance.

I know nothing about that, except what's online:-

http://www.pubhort.org/datepalm/datepalm1/datepalm1_34.pdf

I suspect even the organic dates I've bought have some preservative and are nearly always steamed.

Quote
I don't want an exact percentage. As I mentioned elsewhere, I rarely deal in "exact," absolute, perfect, etc., as I find that such things rarely exist in the real world. I'm more interested in your ROUGH estimate of your optimal AVERAGE level of carb intake. The range is useful too, but I'd like a single figure to get a sense of how it compares to others. Granted, it's an oversimplification, but simplifications do tend to facilitate comparison and discussion as long as they are not taken as absolutes. You've given two very different ranges, so do take your time to consider what range you feel is best representative of your general overall experience--let's say over a period of a year or more. There are no "right" answers, I'm just looking for your best estimates. I think it might help give some perspective.
Look, on any  1 year, my overall average intake of carbs could be 5%, 10% or even 25%, depending on a multitude of different factors, though I was VLC for several years. However, if I ate as much as 50% raw carbs for a whole year, I wouldn't be affected(except a possible too quick a rise in blood-sugar-levels, here and there?) as I'm long past the stage where I used to eat 100% raw plant foods and nothing else, so have no worries re potential nutritional deficiencies that are common re 100% raw vegan/fruitarian diets. Simply put, I don't worry re carb-ratios as carbs aren't the issue , my primary reasons these days for not overindulging in carbs is really to do with food-prices(my appetite goes through the roof if I eat truly vast amounts of carbs)- I'm far more worried when I eat any cooked animal foods, especially those very highly processed.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #308 on: December 28, 2009, 02:10:35 am »
Quote
"My own view is that anywhere between 5-15% raw carbs, by calorie, is required as an optimum (for me)"
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/fats-and-cuts-of-meat/msg12169/#msg12169

"I think a minimum of 5% carbs is best and a maximum of 25-35% carbs is ideal, these days."
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/journals/a-day-in-the-life-of-tylerdurden/msg23103/#msg23103

"I can't give a specific answer since my diet( like many others' it  varies constantly). All I can state is that I don't get any noticeable health-issues between 5-35% of carbs in my diet. My personal preferences obviously will change carb-percentages depending on whether I'm doing more exercise or am in winter/summer etc. I suppose the 5-15% figure is too vague and assumes certain things such as low physical activity with respect to the 5% figure etc."
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/journals/a-day-in-the-life-of-tylerdurden/msg23112/#msg23112

"1 year, my overall average intake of carbs could be 5%, 10% or even 25%, depending on a multitude of different factors, though I was VLC for several years. However, if I ate as much as 50% raw carbs for a whole year, I wouldn't be affected(except a possible too quick a rise in blood-sugar-levels, here and there?) as I'm long past the stage where I used to eat 100% raw plant foods and nothing else, so have no worries re potential nutritional deficiencies that are common re 100% raw vegan/fruitarian diets. Simply put, I don't worry re carb-ratios as carbs aren't the issue , my primary reasons these days for not overindulging in carbs is really to do with food-prices(my appetite goes through the roof if I eat truly vast amounts of carbs)- I'm far more worried when I eat any cooked animal foods, especially those very highly processed."
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/journals/a-day-in-the-life-of-tylerdurden/msg23165/#msg23165
OK, thanks for trying. I was interested in finding out more about the diet that you find works for you. You seem very clear on some things--that you're diet must be 100% raw or you quickly develop horrendous symptoms, that you do need some raw animal flesh (meat/fat/organs) and do very poorly on raw dairy products. Yes? I don't see a clear answer in this wide range of responses above re: carbs and they seem to get vaguer instead of more focused with each response, so perhaps you are still searching for what works for you as far as the carb aspect goes? Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for precise magical numbers or anything, and don't believe in them myself (which is part of the reason I say I'm doing a raw carnivore or RAF diet instead of ZC, which some take to imply an absolute zero level of carb intake)--I'm just trying to get some sense of where you're currently at.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #309 on: December 28, 2009, 07:19:20 pm »
No, I'm quite satisfied with my current diet. There's no way I can really improve it, anyway, as I eat raw wild game, which is the ultimate in nutrition. I might like to dabble in a few luxury foods or raw supplements occasionally such as raw royal jelly or the krill-oil(because I've seen changes in iris-colour from that), but that's about it. The only changes I envision are in things like trying to emulate palaeo levels of exercise and the like. As for raw carbs, I'm quite happy with the range I have now. Like I said, I change my carb-intake depending on things like physical activity, or heat/cold , so I'm simply flexible re that part of my diet.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #310 on: December 28, 2009, 07:27:39 pm »
For some strange reason, I've been getting more and more raw-diet-related questions over the years by people who just want to lose some weight. I get a bit non-plussed at this unusual type of questioning as most people I've come across up till now have only tried RVAF diets because they were very ill as a result of following other types of diet, and being so ill from past diets is often a good incentive to stick to this type of diet in the long-term. Still, it's a good sign, I suppose, of increasing public acceptance of raw diets if people are  willing to try a RVAF diet primarily in order to lose weight.

On the other hand, they may simply not have read my profile properly. For example, I've had a couple of cases in the past where people asked me raw vegan diet-related questions who obviously had  wrongly assumed that all rawists must be raw vegans.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 07:35:05 pm by TylerDurden »
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #311 on: December 29, 2009, 08:16:21 am »
No, I'm quite satisfied with my current diet.
Yes, I know you're satisfied with it and I'm not recommending any changes. I'm just curious about what it is. It might help me understand where you're coming from if I get a clearer picture of your approach. I get a very clear picture about what you aren't doing and don't like, but somewhat less clear about what you ARE doing, especially as carbs go. I do know certain things, like that you try to go 100% raw and eat oysters, of course. I think the last rough estimate you mentioned was a range of around 5% to 35% carbs. Would you say that's a fair idea of about what you're doing these days (with variation within that, of course)?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #312 on: December 29, 2009, 08:14:32 pm »
I suppose. The 35% figure is rarer than the 5% figure, overall.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Hannibal

  • Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,261
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #313 on: December 29, 2009, 08:19:05 pm »
You are talking about percentage of carbs' calories?
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #314 on: December 29, 2009, 08:21:43 pm »
You are talking about percentage of carbs' calories?
  I guess so. I did try weighing every piece of food I ate to find out the exact amounts I ate but it got so boring that I gave up.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Hannibal

  • Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,261
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #315 on: December 29, 2009, 08:28:11 pm »
Aajonus said that 5% of carbs' calories is the the best amount. If someone eats 2000 calories than that's 100 carbs' calories, which is equal to 25 grams. That's very low-carb diet, IMHO.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #316 on: December 29, 2009, 09:05:12 pm »
Aajonus said that 5% of carbs' calories is the the best amount. If someone eats 2000 calories than that's 100 carbs' calories, which is equal to 25 grams. That's very low-carb diet, IMHO.
  Aajonus also recommends a diet consisting of 25% veggie-juice so that's a lot of carbs, plus he recommends lots of raw honey(less so than the vast amounts in the past but still) and then there's the nuts.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #317 on: December 30, 2009, 05:50:22 pm »
Incidentally, it seems other people have different definitions of what VLC means. Some seem to claim 5-10%, I always assumed it meant at most 5%, and usually much lower. For example, those periods when I was doing VLC, I'd eat only 250g of raw berries every fortnight and that would be it(unless one counts the carbs in raw liver and other animal foods, I guess).

As regards my own ZC disasters, it has been mentioned that ZC chronically stresses the adrenals for some months, so that my adrenals, while completely healed re specific adrenal-related symptoms, might still have been chronically weak after a lifetime of abuse, and therefore not able to deal with those ZC experiments. That said, it doesn't explain non-adrenal-related symptoms such as the very swift deterioriation of my teeth which had become very strong in my raw, omnivorous days(after cutting out the raw dairy of course).
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #318 on: December 30, 2009, 08:29:47 pm »
Incidentally, it seems other people have different definitions of what VLC means. Some seem to claim 5-10%, I always assumed it meant at most 5%, and usually much lower. ...
That's one reason why I asked what your levels are, because based on your past comments I was surprised at how low carb the menu samples you mentioned were and how low the carb levels you mentioned off and on were. At 35% or lower carbs, your diet would be considered LC to VLC by most people. The Zone Diet is considered "low carb" at around 40% carbs, because it's lower than the SAD intake of 49 or 50%. 5% is near Inuit level intake--considered extremely low by most.

For further perspective, some "experts" and gurus consider the SAD carb intake of around 50% to be too low. For example, Dean Ornish, "the celebrated cardiologist," recommended 70-75% in one of his books (Dr. Dean Ornish's Program for Reversing Heart Disease, p. 257, http://www.mendosa.com/heart.htm) and Douglas Graham of the 80-10-10 diet recommends 80% carbs.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 09:23:56 pm by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline moises

  • Forager
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #319 on: December 31, 2009, 04:23:23 am »
I hate to be wishy-washy, but we probably each have different abilities to tolerate carbs. I was heavily influenced by the publication of the American version of Lutz's German book, Leben Ohne Brot, as Life Without Bread. Lutz there proposes that 72 grams of carb/day as the upper limit of a healthy diet. I found that number to be about right. Lutz argues for that number based on the glucose needs of the brain. I think that that argument is not sound. There are many people who do well on zero carbs, and their brains are doing well too ;D

When I have made my forays into paleo eating, I have reduced my carbs to 25-36 grams or less per day.

So, for me low-carb is <72 grams/day. VLC is <36 grams. I will acknowledge that some people will call a diet low carb with much, much higher limits.

Offline Hannibal

  • Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,261
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #320 on: December 31, 2009, 05:00:53 am »
Lutz there proposes that 72 grams of carb/day as the upper limit of a healthy diet.
In "Harper's Biochemistry" you can read that we need 50-100 of glucose, so Lutz's 72 grams is almost inbetween.
If you train a lot that you need higher amounts of carbs. That's simple fact.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #321 on: December 31, 2009, 07:29:04 am »
Grams don't seem as good of a comparison as percentages, since people's body weights and total food intake are different.

I've been surprised at how my health improved every time I reduced carbs further, beginning at around 50% and all the way down to zero. I didn't expect this. I thought I would hit a level at which I would have no more improvement beyond a certain level, maybe 10-25% calories as carbs. And the improvements from cutting carbs didn't just start after being ZC as a result of adaptation to fat, they began quickly at my highest carb intake levels and continued all the way down. I don't claim this is good for everyone, it's just how it has worked out for me so far, much to my surprise. I used to say things like "Everyone agrees that eating lots of fruits and vegetables is healthy."
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 07:34:10 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #322 on: January 02, 2010, 01:53:15 am »
Minor notes:- usually when I eat cooked animal foods of any kind, I start coughing up very unpleasant oily stuff which I have to expel. I also get heavy amounts of yellow dust in the eyes the morning after and tend to feel more sleepy. Of course, I could avoid these issues if I always had "high-meat" prepared and ready but I can't always do "high-meat" all the time for various reasons(people object to the smell which so easily gets spread around, and my own sense of smell has never been the greatest).

"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #323 on: January 10, 2010, 09:28:17 pm »
God, I'm so annoyed. Due to the snow and other issues here in the UK, I'm unable to get hold of raw organic/grassfed muscle-meats until next Sunday. I suppose raw fish will have to do, though the quality isn't as good in my immediate area as I usually have gotten in the past. It always seems that the worst times of the year re food-availability are around Christmas/New Year and Easter as farmers take a vacation then.

Well, I still have raw grassfed suet available but, for me, it really is the  rawpaleodieter's equivalent of a McDonald's burger. Well,I'll be getting marrow in 7 days, so no matter.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

William

  • Guest
Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« Reply #324 on: January 11, 2010, 12:27:06 am »
Due to the snow and other issues here in the UK, I'm unable to get hold of raw organic/grassfed muscle-meats until next Sunday.

Paleoman would have had the same problem, and used foresight to solve it with pemmican.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk