Author Topic: GCB's book and questions about instinctive eating  (Read 5727 times)

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Offline Joy2012

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GCB's book and questions about instinctive eating
« on: September 08, 2012, 02:40:46 am »
Hi, all. I finished reading GCB’s book, or rather, parts of his book which are interesting to me at this point. I skipped much of his detailed speculation about germs and so on. His argument appears very convincing. I do have a few questions at this point.

(1)   I remember GCB said (on this forum) that his wife got cancer because she ate one pound of beef daily. So what does that mean? Her instincts did not work? Many of the members on this forum appear to eat over one pound of animal flesh daily; are they in danger? Or is beef more injurious than seafood? Does an instinctive-eating person (if not in the process of healing diseases) then tend to live mostly on fruits/vegetables rather than on animal flesh?

(2)   In his book GCB mentioned that modern fruits are so sweet that one will be mistakenly led (by taste) to eat more fruits than vegetables and so imbalance will happen. Since precious few have access to wild fruits, does that mean the rest of us still need to use intellect to curb our fruits consumption? Do you guys who eat instinctively end up eating much fruit? Too much fruit?

(3)   GCB is against grinding/spicing up foods. I happen to be very fond of my way of eating animal flesh. I mince beef/shrimp/salmon (separately) in my food processer with spices and then warm it in my dehydrator at low-temperature so the animal flesh is still raw. Will this minimal processing really cause my instincts to go awry?

(4)   Has anyone seen GCB in person (not his photos merely)? Did he look young and healthy for his age?

(5)   A couple of days ago I was at my gym when I had no easy access to food except black sesame seeds in my locker. I was hungry because I hadn’t had any food that day. So I ate my sesame seeds even though I felt no special draw to them. But once I started eating them, they tasted quite OK and I finished the whole can (about a cup). So is this instinctive eating or not? After all, sesame seeds had no smell.    On the other hand, while I was eating sesame seeds, I thought of the almonds I had in my fridge. That night, when I was already in my bed, I kept thinking about almonds  and eventually I got up and ate a cup of them. After that I have not felt a desire for almonds.

(6)   I just had my first-ever physical results back. (I do have had good health insurance. I was just too lazy to do a physical. Plus, I have had no needs for doctors/medicines after my childhood and so I thought I did not need a physical either.) Everything is excellent except that my very low red blood cell volume/size. The doctor said that means I had excessive iron-deficiency. I guess this is the result of my years of near-fruitarian diet. It explains my chronic low energy, which is the main reason I am seeking diet improvement. It may also explain why I felt such a big appetite for beef for months when I started Raw Paleo in early 2012. The doctor prescribed an iron supplement and recommended that I take it for at least 3 months but preferably one year. I asked him if I could just eat an iron-rich diet. He said it would take a long long time. I believed him, because for four months earlier this year I average ate more than one pound of beef daily and now my red blood cells are still in a very poor state. So I decided to take the iron supplement. My question is: will this supplement impact my food instincts?

I will really appreciate if anyone will take time to give me answers.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 07:04:31 am by Joy2012 »

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: GCB's book and questions about instinctive eating
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2012, 08:25:10 pm »
As far as iron supplements, if you notice that they improve your health, then use them.  If they don't seem to help, stop taking them.  I don't think it will have a big effect on your instincts.

As far as using spices and mincing, as long as you don't do too much of it, it's not a big deal, in my experience. 

I'll let Iguana answer the rest.  You might want to PM him, in case he doesn't see this post.


Offline Joy2012

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Re: GCB's book and questions about instinctive eating
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2012, 08:50:46 am »
cherimoya kid, thank you for sharing your valuable knowledge and experience.

Offline Iguana

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Re: GCB's book and questions about instinctive eating
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2012, 05:37:42 pm »
Hi Joy,

Here are already some short answers.

1. Recurring consumption of small quantities of the same meat can induce the passage of similar antigens every day through the intestinal barrier and we know that only a small numbers of antigens may cause tolerance or intolerance. Contrary to what happen with domesticated animals’ meat, the stop is almost unavoidable with wild game meat. But it is possible that even without being in a protein’s overload, we aren’t well adapted to the repetitive use of mammals’ meat over a long period. It was certainly rare before the development of hunting techniques and then there was bisons or aurochs, which provide a much more violent instinctive stop than our cattle’s meat.

Such theoretical considerations baked by a long experience with a lot of people led GCB to thinks that we should avoid the daily consumption of the same meat during several months, especially the meat of domesticated mammals. It is much wiser to vary our choice of raw animal food and to prefer the meat of wild animals, birds, fish, shellfish, poultry, eggs.

Most of the persons that I know (including GCB and myself!) who have practiced instinctive nutrition for a long time consume some raw animal food (RAF) almost everyday.

2. I don’t think we eat too much fruit. But of course, as with meat, we should prefer the wildest varieties. In principle, for our main daily meal, we start to choose a RAF, then if we are still hungry we choose a vegetable, perhaps a few other veggies, then if still hungry again perhaps some kind of nuts and if still hungry after some elapsed time, a singe fruit species.

3. Yes, we avoid all kind of mixing, spicing, processing. Its only by doing a scientific experiment thoroughly and meticulously that the we can get valid results. We’d better consider our practice as a scientific experiment.

4. I know him quite well and he’s in very good shape and especially healthy for his 78 years old.

5. Yes, we can’t eat a foodstuff we don’t have! So, in case we are hungry and have only a single unprocessed paleo-stuff that our instinct is telling us it’s suitable to eat, than we eat it just like any animal would do.

6. Supplements are not paleo and as long as we have a sufficient choice of good quality raw foods, they are completely useless and even probably harmful.

Cheers
Francois

EDIT: I added a key point that I had forgotten under Nr 1.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012, 09:44:09 pm by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Wattlebird

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Re: GCB's book and questions about instinctive eating
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2012, 04:53:06 am »
Hi Joy,

Here are already some short answers.

1. Recurring consumption of small quantities of the same meat can induce the passage of similar antigens every day through the intestinal barrier and we know that only a small numbers of antigens may cause tolerance or intolerance. Contrary to what happen with domesticated animals’ meat, the stop is almost unavoidable with wild game meat. But it is possible that even without being in a protein’s overload, we aren’t well adapted to the repetitive use of mammals’ meat over a long period. It was certainly rare before the development of hunting techniques and then there was bisons or aurochs, which provide a much more violent instinctive stop than our cattle’s meat.

Such theoretical considerations baked by a long experience with a lot of people led GCB to thinks that we should avoid the daily consumption of the same meat during several months, especially the meat of domesticated mammals. It is much wiser to vary our choice of raw animal food and to prefer the meat of wild animals, birds, fish, shellfish, poultry, eggs.

Most of the persons that I know (including GCB and myself!) who have practiced instinctive nutrition for a long time consume some raw animal food (RAF) almost everyday.

2. I don’t think we eat too much fruit. But of course, as with meat, we should prefer the wildest varieties. In principle, for our main daily meal, we start to choose a RAF, then if we are still hungry we choose a vegetable, perhaps a few other veggies, then if still hungry again perhaps some kind of nuts and if still hungry after some elapsed time, a singe fruit species.

3. Yes, we avoid all kind of mixing, spicing, processing. Its only by doing a scientific experiment thoroughly and meticulously that the we can get valid results. We’d better consider our practice as a scientific experiment.

4. I know him quite well and he’s in very good shape and especially healthy for his 78 years old.

5. Yes, we can’t eat a foodstuff we don’t have! So, in case we are hungry and have only a single unprocessed paleo-stuff that our instinct is telling us it’s suitable to eat, than we eat it just like any animal would do.

6. Supplements are not paleo and as long as we have a sufficient choice of good quality raw foods, they are completely useless and even probably harmful.

Cheers
Francois

EDIT: I added a key point that I had forgotten under Nr 1.

great points. :)
although some instinctive eaters like to pare things even further back with regards to variety of foods eaten at a single meal and only just eat one thing, I find the layered strategy in point 2 by Francois similar to my approach and works well for me.
A little trial and error with what food where in the sequence soon shows what is agreeable to ones constitution in terms of digestion, elimination, energy levels etc.

Offline Joy2012

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Re: GCB's book and questions about instinctive eating
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2012, 12:55:40 pm »
Francois,  many thanks for taking time to answer my questions.

for our main daily meal, we start to choose a RAF, then if we are still hungry we choose a vegetable, perhaps a few other veggies, then if still hungry again perhaps some kind of nuts and if still hungry after some elapsed time, a singe fruit species.

This is contrary to what the American natural hygiene society teaches. They say that fruit should be eaten first on an empty stomach to avoid fermentation because fruit easily gets fermented. What do you think about their concern?

Since yesterday I have been eating raw beef slices and shrimps unblended and unspiced.  But I place them in my dehydrator to warm/dry a little bit. This should be OK? This practice would be like what the primitive people did if they let their food out in a sunny breezy day.  I think this practice does not mess up my instincts, because I always stop eating after a few bites. (In the past I would eat a much larger quantity when my beef/seafood was blended/spiced.)  I am happily surprised that I actually like the unspiced and unblended beef/shrimps.

Offline Iguana

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Re: GCB's book and questions about instinctive eating
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2012, 04:32:32 am »
Francois,  many thanks for taking time to answer my questions.
It’s with pleasure!

Quote
This is contrary to what the American natural hygiene society teaches. They say that fruit should be eaten first on an empty stomach to avoid fermentation because fruit easily gets fermented. What do you think about their concern?
If I remember, GCB writes somewhere in this book that food doesn’t freely ferment in the intestinal tract… Anyway, if I eat fruit first (moreover if it’s till instinctive stop) it cuts my hunger for other foods. Generally, we have no breakfast (tough some do), choose some fruit(s) for lunch (but it is of course not compulsory, one can as well have a RAF or/and vegetables for lunch) and have a dinner with RAF and then vegetables. Only if we are still not satisfied, then we have a fruit sometimes later. But as we have already eaten other foods, thus we eat less of that fruit and it’s recommended to eat it only as long as it remains extremely tasty (“luminous”) and doesn't induce any discomfort.

We need to be satisfied with our meals and that means they must be very enjoyable and tasty. Otherwise, eating 100% raw paleo becomes boring and unsustainable in the long run. It’s better to have a fruit for dessert rather than chocolate or pastries!   :)   

Quote
Since yesterday I have been eating raw beef slices and shrimps unblended and unspiced.  But I place them in my dehydrator to warm/dry a little bit. This should be OK?
Sure, no problem as long as you never heat them over about 40° C  -  104° F. If you can get fresh unfrozen wild shrimps, you’re lucky because we can’t find unfrozen ones in Europe and thus we prefer not to eat shrimps.  :(

Quote
This practice would be like what the primitive people did if they let their food out in a sunny breezy day.  I think this practice does not mess up my instincts, because I always stop eating after a few bites. (In the past I would eat a much larger quantity when my beef/seafood was blended/spiced.)  I am happily surprised that I actually like the unspiced and unblended beef/shrimps.
Glad you do, and you’ll probably like the meat more and more gamey.  ;)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 05:04:53 am by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Joy2012

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Re: GCB's book and questions about instinctive eating
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2012, 11:40:26 am »
Francois, Thank you for your kind reply.

I guess I could get unfrozen seafood as my city is not far from the Mexican gulf, although no doubt it will be more pricy than frozen seafood. So far I have only eaten frozen seafood. One reason is the price. The other reason is that I read that many times frozen seafood is tastier/fresher than never-frozen seafood, since never-frozen seafood may be several days old when it gets to the customer, while frozen seafood is likely to be frozen hours after they are caught from the sea.

What is the reason you do not eat frozen food? I understand frozen food only suffers minimal nutrient loss. And I do sense the "stop" feeling while eating previously frozen shrimps  these past two days.

Offline Iguana

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Re: GCB's book and questions about instinctive eating
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2012, 05:27:49 am »
Yes, but nutrient losses are only one nuisance amongst others caused by food processing. The most noxious of these nuisances is certainly the production of abnormal (Maillard) molecules due to excessive heat. Freezing is  in no way as damaging as cooking, but when the stuff is thawed the cells’ walls are broken and a mess results in the structure of the foodstuff. One might argue that freezing happen in nature and thus we should be perfectly adapted to frozen and subsequently thawed food.

Well… polar bears are certainly adapted to it, but we are not polar animals as our apes ancestors lived in the tropics where freezing doesn’t happen. I don’t like thawed stuff, it’s runny. GCB and friends experimented with it (including on animals) and gave up because it caused various minor troubles when habituation has been lost for some time, the body being then out of the previously acquired  tolerance (like smokers who became tolerant to smoke, their body doesn’t react  anymore to smoke by coughing: they have to stop smoking for some months or years to react again to smoke.) Apparently, it would be ok if thawing happened in the mouth… but our teeth wouldn’t like it!

Yes, I believe you that you feel a “stop” with previously frozen shrimps, but the problem might be that this “stop” doesn’t happen exactly when it should. There’s often a kind of instinctive stop as well with cooked food, but it happens too late when the food has been well cooked and spiced by a good cook!   ;)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 03:17:31 pm by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Joy2012

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Re: GCB's book and questions about instinctive eating
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2012, 12:22:54 pm »
Alright. I will go a step further and eat ony unfrozen seafood and see how I feel.  I guess I can afford it since I do not spend any money on medicine.  ;D   Thanks.

BTW, I do not believe my forefathers were apes. I believe I am the highest creation of the Almighty God. :D
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 12:27:58 pm by Joy2012 »

Offline Iguana

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Re: GCB's book and questions about instinctive eating
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2013, 06:16:55 pm »
Evolution and creation are perfectly compatible. I don’t know exactly what you mean by the words “Almighty God”, but if God is seen as a kind of chief engineer, he would unlikely restart the engineering of every animal species from scratch. He would instead modify, improve and better adapt to new conditions the already created, just like engineers constantly improve existing products by adding more complex and new functions to adapt them to evolving customer’s demands and to withstand competition.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

 

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