Author Topic: Avidin in raw eggs one more time  (Read 32256 times)

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Offline wodgina

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Re: Avidin in raw eggs one more time
« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2011, 10:12:15 am »

You mean like caviar? I wish I could get some...anyone know any sources of them raw?

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Offline eveheart

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Re: Avidin in raw eggs one more time
« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2011, 10:26:57 am »
I have found various types of roe (in the US) either frozen, salted/refrigerated, salted/canned (pasteurized), cooked/pickled. I think that about covers what I've seen. I shop in Asian markets. I usually buy frozen salmon roe. I love to eat them slowly and "pop" each egg in my mouth.

For caviar, that's the roe of the sturgeon, a super-old fish species... so I'm sure it's paleo  :D
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Offline Techydude

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Re: Avidin in raw eggs one more time
« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2011, 11:44:47 am »
Cool

anyone have sources of unfrozen roe?

Offline wodgina

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Re: Avidin in raw eggs one more time
« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2011, 11:55:47 am »
Yep, I can get it although only once a year. I don't like the taste.
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Offline RawZi

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Re: Avidin in raw eggs one more time
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2011, 05:02:48 pm »
anyone have sources of unfrozen roe?

    I've eaten fresh raw roe that I got in an Asian market.  It wasn't tasty and they didn't speak English, so I don't know how the fish lived or was caught.
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Offline Dorothy

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Re: Avidin in raw eggs one more time
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2011, 06:49:38 am »
You would think that birds would be more careful generally where they lay their eggs but ducks are downright stupid about it. I used to live by the ocean and nothing in the world was easier to get than turtle eggs. We used to have to fight like crazy during sea turtle season to protect them because they are so very endangered now.  :(

All I have are my chickens' unfertilized eggs. The yolks taste great to me, the whites don't. So I eat what tastes good! My dogs will eat the yolks first too if they eat the white at all. The yolk is what the chicks use for food and the white is a only backup food source, is a shock absorber and allows for air circulation. If the whites looked good and tasted good though I'd eat it cuz I trust myself more than some scientist that only fries his eggs and puts margarine on his wonder bread!

Fertilized wild feeding bird eggs were not analyzed and even if they were does that necessarily mean that it would have any pertinence to a raw foodist at all? Myy dogs didn't have to ask me if the whites were good for them. I don't need to ask a scientist to figure out if the whites are good for me.

Only stupid humans care about wasting a part of a food that we innately feel is not good for us. Bunnies take nibbles from each leaf. Many carnivores take the best and leave what's leftover for scavengers. I put the whites back into the chicken food. What? Yep. I figure that my chickens are not getting as much protein as they should in the drought with not enough bugs right now. They also get the leftover eggshells for calcium. But what I really need to do is raise them some more bugs - their natural food. They will eat those first. You never saw such excitement as when I bring them bugs.

We all know innately what is good or not for us if we aren't too far away from ourselves.

Offline miles

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Re: Avidin in raw eggs one more time
« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2011, 07:53:17 am »
Is there a risk of chickens getting prion disease from eating chicken egg whites?

Humans(kuru), cattle(BSE) and sheep(scrapies) can get it from eating their own kind, but maybe eating egg white is not the same as eating chicken flesh.
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Offline Dorothy

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Re: Avidin in raw eggs one more time
« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2011, 08:10:32 am »
Excellent question Miles:

Quote:
How easy is it to catch prion disease from a different species?
Generally, transmitting prion disease between two different species – from cattle to
human, for example – only occurs when the prion proteins of the two species are
similar enough. Human and ape prions are nearly identical; injecting infected human
brain tissue into apes will transmit disease. Human and mouse prions are not similar
enough; injecting infected human brain tissue into mice will not transmit the disease
either. However, if mice are genetically modified to contain a prion gene that is identical
to the human gene, injecting infected human tissue into these mice will cause the
mice to develop prion disease.
So…
There has been no documented occurrence of prion disease in birds. And, of all bird
prion proteins studied so far, chicken prions are the least similar to human prions. It’s
not likely that humans could catch a naturally occurring chicken prion disease."



Besides, at present I only have 3 chickens! I would get any disease from one egg producer that I would get from all three if they shared.

If I give them eggshells from other birds I put them into food-grade hydrogen peroxide to sterilize them first before drying and powdering and never give them the contents.

But you bring up a very powerful question in regard to meats! What's the consensus here on prion disease that is transmittable to humans??? What do y'all think about mad cow?

Should this be another thread? Should I be searching the forum for a previous discussion of this subject?

Offline Iguana

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Re: Avidin in raw eggs one more time
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2011, 04:32:26 am »
You would think that birds would be more careful generally where they lay their eggs but ducks are downright stupid about it. I used to live by the ocean and nothing in the world was easier to get than turtle eggs. We used to have to fight like crazy during sea turtle season to protect them because they are so very endangered now.  :(

All I have are my chickens' unfertilized eggs. The yolks taste great to me, the whites don't. So I eat what tastes good! My dogs will eat the yolks first too if they eat the white at all. The yolk is what the chicks use for food and the white is a only backup food source, is a shock absorber and allows for air circulation. If the whites looked good and tasted good though I'd eat it cuz I trust myself more than some scientist that only fries his eggs and puts margarine on his wonder bread!

Fertilized wild feeding bird eggs were not analyzed and even if they were does that necessarily mean that it would have any pertinence to a raw foodist at all? My dogs didn't have to ask me if the whites were good for them. I don't need to ask a scientist to figure out if the whites are good for me.

Only stupid humans care about wasting a part of a food that we innately feel is not good for us. Bunnies take nibbles from each leaf. Many carnivores take the best and leave what's leftover for scavengers. I put the whites back into the chicken food. What? Yep. I figure that my chickens are not getting as much protein as they should in the drought with not enough bugs right now. They also get the leftover eggshells for calcium. But what I really need to do is raise them some more bugs - their natural food. They will eat those first. You never saw such excitement as when I bring them bugs.

We all know innately what is good or not for us if we aren't too far away from ourselves.

Good post. I concur.

How do you proceed to raise bugs?
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Avidin in raw eggs one more time
« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2011, 05:47:04 am »
Hi Iguana. Thanks.

I know that this is a change in subject. I hope it's good etiquette on this forum to do so in the middle of a thread. If not, then I apologize in advance.

I've raised mealworms, superworms and crickets. All pretty easy. I used to feed the chickens mealworms and superworms and the superworm beatles in a plastic tub - all of them the chickens went ga ga for. My next project though is to take a plastic compost bin and make it into a Black Soldier Fly Composter. This will attract the native BSFlies to lay their eggs. The maggots will turn just about anything to rich soil within 24 hours and then the maggots can easily be guided as they crawl up the composter as they would a tree and drop themselves into a container to be fed to the chickens. BSflies do not carry disease and do not come in the house. The maggots are chicken candy supposedly. Hopefully one day I will also have an aquaponics system to raise fish and the maggots are the perfect fish food as well. Whether I will get myself to eat them or not we will see.... but they are supposed to be very nutritious food for humans as well. I know at least though that I will be able to get as much super high-quality food for my chickens as I want fairly easily this way because all I need is garbage and in an American suburb the one thing I know I will always be able to find is garbage.  ;)

The beauty of black soldier flies is that they somehow take the most nasty bacteria ridden substances and make them ok. You can put dog, cat or human feces in the composter and still use the soil for a vegetable garden. Someone recently told me that they composted their baby's diapers!




Offline Iguana

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Re: Avidin in raw eggs one more time
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2011, 02:23:05 pm »
Thanks, but don’t you think some abnormal molecules present for example in cooked junk food fed to dogs and cats will find their way and even accumulate  along the food chain into their feces, the flies, maggots, chicken and their eggs?

In Pottenger’s experiments, the ground where the cats were fed cooked food became poisoned, the vegetables test-grown there were not good and it’s well known that human (feeding on cooked stuff) feces aren’t suitable and even dangerous as fertilizers (some people compost it and pretend it becomes harmless, but I doubt it). As a result, billions of tons of organic matter have been dumped into streams, rivers, lakes and seas, lost to the ground where they belong and are polluting the waters.

I would also like to raise bugs for my poultry, but I’d take care that they do not originate from polluted sources such as commercial meat or cooked leftovers.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Avidin in raw eggs one more time
« Reply #61 on: July 25, 2011, 09:06:27 am »
Hey Iguana - True - It's the number one no-no of composting to put cat or dog feces into regular compost if you want to use it to grow vegetables for human consumption. That's part of what intrigues me about black soldier fly composting. They say that no matter what kind of feces is composted in it you can still use the compost to grow things suitable for human consumption. It's part of what makes it so interesting to me - if that is true then so many problems could be solved.

But yeah - I aint gonna do it.  And ............ I wouldn't feed such bugs to my chickens because ........ just because the soil can be used to grow vegetables doesn't mean that the maggots didn't absorb those toxins and that's why the soil is ok. You can sure bet that I would never eat those maggots myself either.  :o

I feed my dogs better than most people eat - but I still wouldn't eat from their composted feces, but I might make a separate composter for them to make soil to put around non-fruit bearing trees and flowers and such. I would need some more data to prove it was safe to me before using such things to grow my few little veggies in.

Most of my composting will be organic organic matter as that's what I will mostly have!  ;)  Not much fake waste stuff coming out of my kitchen.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Avidin in raw eggs one more time
« Reply #62 on: August 07, 2011, 06:05:25 am »
No, since wild animals laid such eggs only seasonally and usually in relatively inaccessible places such as cliff-faces, trees and the like. Only when chickens were domesticated were eggs available in quantity.
It's true that eggs were seasonal, but you make it sound like they were a lot harder to get than what I've read in accounts of traditional lifestyles. For example: "Everywhere water birds are found in large numbers and extensively hunted, especially eider ducks, auks, and murres. Eggs of all these birds are consumed in large numbers." (Studies on the Metabolism of Eskimos, by Peter Heinbecker, the Departments of Biological Chemistry and Physiology, Washington University School of Medicine, St. Louis. Received for publication, July 9, 1928. http://www.jbc.org/content/80/2/461.full.pdf)

I've also seen a video of wee Plains Indians children of today walking along a prairie, effortlessly picking up eggs from nests on the ground and collecting them in baskets. It looked easier than I would have imagined. Unless people were living in a habitat where there weren't many birds, the main limitation on egg consumption seems to have been seasonality.
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Offline Iguana

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Re: Avidin in raw eggs one more time
« Reply #63 on: August 07, 2011, 06:50:17 am »
Unless people were living in a habitat where there weren't many birds, the main limitation on egg consumption seems to have been seasonality.
Yes, and even if you raise your own poultry, as Dorothy and I do, you'll find that geese lay their eggs early in the spring only, ducks a bit latter and no latter than mid-July while hens also stop laying eggs in the middle of summer - and in winter too unless you provide them with artificial light to compensate for the shortening of daylight duration. 

That's for the Northern hemisphere, in the tropics it's certainly different and I doubt that sea turtles lay their eggs in the same season than birds.

Another point is that collecting eggs and breaking their shell to drink them is much more easy than hunting, killing and skinning an animal, especially without modern weapons and knifes.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Avidin in raw eggs one more time
« Reply #64 on: August 07, 2011, 07:09:39 am »
That's for the Northern hemisphere, in the tropics it's certainly different and I doubt that sea turtles lay their eggs in the same season than birds.
Yes, I was thinking about adding a point about different animals having different seasons, so that the availability of eggs from ALL species might spread out over a wide part of the year, particularly in warmer climates, but I don't have any data on that. People tend to think only of chicken eggs or the birds in their back yard and then extrapolate based on that very limited modern experience.

Quote
Another point is that collecting eggs and breaking their shell to drink them is much more easy than hunting, killing and skinning an animal, especially without modern weapons and knifes.
Yes, and thus even little children can collect the eggs. It is apparently a job of the children to do so in some traditional cultures, perhaps many?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Avidin in raw eggs one more time
« Reply #65 on: August 12, 2011, 12:20:21 am »
Here in Texas most of my "chicken friends" that feed their chickens very well report that without extra lighting their chickens produce all year. Mine do. Seasonality often has to do with food resources more than anything when it comes to bird reproduction cycles. There are many parts of the world where the food is in such large supply that many bird species reproduce all year.

Collecting eggs as the job of children. It makes sense and now I know why finding eggs in the coop makes me as giddy as a school girl.  ;)

 

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