Author Topic: Advice request for transition and healing ideas  (Read 21614 times)

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Offline Dorothy

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Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« on: October 25, 2011, 02:38:21 am »
After a couple of months of watching me eat raw ground meat, chewing off bones and living to tell the tale -- hubbie has progressively eaten his (now grass-fed) burgers rarer and rarer until........ he ate a whole 2 tablespoons raw himself! wOOt! Funny how hard that first bite of all raw can be even with eating rare burgers and sushi all the time. It's a mental leap. He seems to only like ground. I would make very thin steak sashimi - but rare steaks are turn-off to him.

In the morning I have gotten him to stop eating cereals (FINALLY!) by making a soaked, dehydrated mixed nut and date cream/pie crust on top of which he can put all his berries and fruits (which he loves btw). The first time I put frozen banana icecream on top to really win him over. It's like the best desert you ever had anywhere. So breakfast is much better now.

For lunch I've gotten him very happy with frequent sliced sashimi en masse. We make fab sauces and add herbs and seaweeds. Sometimes he has his rare hamburger - but I'm hoping to get him willing to eat the all-raw version more and more with the raw egg yolk sauce on top but at present he will only eat such a tiny amount and he needs more meat. Lunch is a time that we eat greens cut directly from my garden. They seem to digest well for us well with the meat. It's certainly better than the bread with the hamburger that is being replaced, slowly, but surely. I find that I have to eat much less meat than him to feel good. I think he needs even more than what he is getting though and really needs bone/cartilage.

You see, he has a disc that is almost all gone. We've been doing physical stuff like traction and he now goes out to do yoga most days. The overall pain is reduced and if he gets into pain I can get him back to his baseline pretty quickly with hands-on-healing. But....... diet is pivotal! FYI he also suffers from allergies terribly here in Austin - the allergy capital of the world. People without allergies move here and get them. Most of the population suffers but he already was susceptible. Any suggestions for the disc and the allergies would be listened to with open ears and mind.

I was finally able to get some bone marrow yesterday. I tried before to get grass-fed but it was always too hard and frozen. What I got this time was not grass-fed - but better than nothing. At the market the kind butcher was also willing to cut it up into the ideal pieces to eat easily - unlike the whole bones from the farmer's market. Hubbie will eat the marrow only with his hamburgers, one bite of burger and one bite of marrow. together - but at least it's in! I took the marrow out of the bone for him but I eat it right out of the bone. I LOVE the taste of the marrow. It gives me such a wonderful hydration! It's like the best lip balm in the world. I bet over time he will come to like it more. I just HAS to be good for him.

On the stove now are the bones with the cartilage and the left-over less-soft marrow in a pot simmering. Breakfast and lunch are handled but the last meal ends up being his old cooked stuff often with brown rice and such. I at least can get him to put raw egg yolk and avocado on the rice and veggies now though. He's been watching me eat raw egg yolks from our chickens for years. I'm trying to figure out a way to make that last meal better. I figure, if it's going to be cooked, I should try to make it slow-cooked and some vegetables that are only good cooked for a larger variety of nutrients, cooked only in water and covered so the nutrients go back into the water - and a way to get some more meat and minerals into the guy. I don't understand slow-cooking much, stews or stocks. I'm thinking of it as a stop-gap on the way to getting his mineral and nutrient stores up and a way to get him towards raw....... but I only made stock once with lamb bones and he wouldn't eat it. I got some winter squashes that I thought I could put in and might help make it taste better - kombocha pumpkin is very rich and meaty. I need help with seasoning and recipes, what to add to make it taste good to the average Joe.

I feel like we have made TREMENDOUS progress considering that the changes in his diet were not self-initiated. It just shows what being an example can do when it comes to eating raw animal foods. My ears are open to all suggestions of any kind on how to help my hubbie heal up his disc, cure his allergies, get mineralized and transition to raw paleo with the most taste and grace. I'd like to pick up the pace of healing.

Diet, alternative therapies, paleo lifestyles, recipes - any old thing that comes to your mind - please don't hesitate to offer.

Thanks!

« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 02:47:13 am by TylerDurden »

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2011, 03:03:23 am »
I would suggest getting plenty of vitamin D through sunlight and Now brand softgels, and maybe supplementing with a little bone meal.  Scallops (not chemically-treated ones, also called "wet" scallops) have really helped my tooth sensitivity...that might be good for rebuilding bones too.

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2011, 03:26:32 am »
I would suggest getting plenty of vitamin D through sunlight and Now brand softgels, and maybe supplementing with a little bone meal.  Scallops (not chemically-treated ones, also called "wet" scallops) have really helped my tooth sensitivity...that might be good for rebuilding bones too.

Thanks Cherimoya. I got him Nature's Way D3 because it does not have any added oil. Now has olive oil in it and it does not say first pressed or extra virgin. The store near us "Central Market" has a brand that I have taken that has rice bran oil and is in a glass jar that I have taken. Is there a reason that you pick Now Brand over the others? He gets about a thousand IU a day. What dosage do you think is ideal? He isn't in the sun much.

The bones themselves are actually getting arthritic growths from hitting each other. It's the disc made of collagen in between the bones that is soft that has deteriorated from the lack of proper curvature of his neck. It seems that these discs get fused with moisture and minerals and nutrients when the bones go up and down and bounce on them correctly. They have no blood going - all the nutrition and hydration happen through osmosis. All in all though, I'm sure that calcium and bone would have to help. I have some calcium type supplements but I wonder about getting powdered bone instead. Do you have a good source for powdered bone?

Hubbie really hates scallops but I wonder if he has tried the right kind or they might have been treated. What are they usually treated with? I didn't think to ask about that. I personally thought a little tasted good but then they started to taste bad to me quickly - maybe for the same reasons. I've read here about wet and dry scallops being different but can't remember what the difference was now. I'll try to find both and see if one or the other is tolerable for him - unless one is toxic of course. I might have to try to hide it like the marrow if scallops like marrow would be really good for cartilage and collagen.

I actually thought of grinding up our chickens eggshells and supplementing with those. Considering how my chickens are fed I bet they would be a great supplement - I'm just not sure if they would be digestible for humans. Can humans digest eggshells or bones? I thought that dogs had special enzymes that we don't for the digestion of bones.

Great suggestions - thank you.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2011, 11:10:50 am »
Chicken eggshells should work fine as a replacement for bone meal.

I have only tried two kinds of vitamin D, and the Now brand worked, and the other, Carlson's, DIDN'T.

The best way to figure out if it works is to take the Now brand for about 5 days, 5000 IU daily, and see if any health problems clear up.  If they do, he's deficient.  To test the other brands, stop taking the Now brand, and see if they control those health problems as well.

Wet scallops are treated with sodium metabisulfite.  They taste all chemical-y raw, and the minerals are not nearly as absorbable.

I find that clams are really good for my finger and toenails, they make them really strong.  You might want to feed him clams, and of course feed him connective tissue from meat.  Maybe try to crush up some wild-caught fish spines, and have him eat those, with the connective tissue and bones both.

Offline RawZi

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2011, 03:32:27 pm »
    Scallops should make a fantastic ceviche.  It might be a good way to introduce him to enjoy scallops.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 05:46:10 pm by TylerDurden »
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Offline jessica

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2011, 09:54:46 pm »
bone broth, grapefruit for acidity to pull the minerals and add potassium and tons of pot herbs, greens, and spices, even veggies(roots, minus potatoes, sweet and otherwise) strained, will increase the mineral content
i would also suggest whey

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2011, 11:04:29 pm »
5000IU Vit D! That might be the real difference. Most suggestions are for 1000 daily so that in itself might be an issue. I'm always afraid of supplement overdose so unless someone I trust says that it's ok to go over recommended amounts I won't assume that I can. I even had him on calcitriol which is D2 which is for people that might have trouble converting D3 due to kidney insufficiency - but that made no difference. It all might be in the dosage. He's increasing the D3 that we got gradually up to 5000 IU based on your suggestion Cherimoya since we already have it and if that doesn't work then I will get him the NOW brand and see if that works. Vitamin D is the one supplement that has gained almost universal acceptance as a necessary supplement if one isn't outdoors - which my hubbie is rarely. Eventually, with the increase of raw foods with high Vit D content hopefully we will be able to reduce or eliminate supplementation. It's always better to get things from food if possible - but if you can't..... the pills can be a lifesaver.

Dry scallops it is then - that might make all the difference right there. RawZi - Ceviche with lots of basil (his favorite) is a stupendous idea!

Clams he also hates - is there something wrong with those guys too if in a certain form? Can you make those into something yummy like the scallops and the ceviche?

I've got to figure out how to get wild-caught fish spines here in Central Texas because that's a GREAT idea on how to get bones, marrow, collagen etc. in a raw form. I'm giving him a collagen supplement by Doctor's Best and ionic minerals - but again - they are out of a jar which is always inferior. Most of the fish arrives here already cut up and in slabs and frozen so it's not like I can go to a fishmonger and ask them for the leftover bones. I'm wondering if I can find some little fishes with the spines still in them and figure out how to prepare them so that he will like them. I bet little fishes would be good dehydrated if I could figure out how to do that without smelling up the house or making our 4 feral cats go bonkers outside. Any suggestions on how to make small fish work?

Such helpful suggestions so far! Thanks.

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2011, 11:23:32 pm »
bone broth, grapefruit for acidity to pull the minerals and add potassium and tons of pot herbs, greens, and spices, even veggies(roots, minus potatoes, sweet and otherwise) strained, will increase the mineral content
i would also suggest whey


Hey Jessica - I have bones with marrow and cartilage in a big pot on the stovetop now that has been simmering since yesterday morning! Please - do you have any recipes or suggestions on how to make it taste good? I made it once before even with seasonings and veggies - but he wouldn't eat it. It really didn't taste all that good. The dogs loved it though! ;)

Would you please explain to me more why grapefruit would be useful? I'm afraid that I don't understand. I know that grapefruit can make things like CoQ10 massively more absorbed. Does it do that with minerals too and do you understand the mechanism?

Hubbie is a spice-a-holic (sounds like something from out of Dune right?). We use fresh herbs and what is not fresh are things that are organic and I've dehydrated and powdered myself to avoid all the crap that is done to spices these days. I've been growing greens and we have been eating lots of those. I can try to increase them. Mineral contents, chlorophyll etc. I was thinking that I need to make some of my raw veggie soups (from my powdered veggies) and maybe add some of the bone broth and see how that goes. Your suggestion cemented the idea in my head now. I'll try it tonight. I have been especially looking for ways to use tumeric.

Why no sweet potatoes?

I've tried to hide my fermented whey in many different forms - but that's a no go. The chickens always get it and he eats the eggs instead. :)  Nobody seems to like the stuff. Not the dogs, the cats or even the chickens - I have to mix it with powdery grains to make them eat it. I understand how good it's supposed to be. Besides, I started to smell the plastic in the milk even though it was only in plastic a few hours so stopped getting it. Those soft plastic containers for milk freak me out now. I won't get milk or cream again until I get a bunch of big glass jars and go directly to the farm. It will be a big trip and a few days of constant work to make enough food to warrant the trip.... but definitely a fun outing and project that is in the future plans. Hubbie misses the butter and so do I.

Thanks a bunch Jessica!

Offline RawZi

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2011, 12:42:16 am »
Dry scallops it is then - that might make all the difference right there. RawZi - Ceviche with lots of basil (his favorite) is a stupendous idea!

Clams he also hates - is there something wrong with those guys too if in a certain form? Can you make those into something yummy like the scallops and the ceviche?

I've got to figure out how to get wild-caught fish spines here in Central Texas because that's a GREAT idea on how to get bones, marrow, collagen etc. in a raw form. I'm giving him a collagen supplement by Doctor's Best and ionic minerals - but again - they are out of a jar which is always inferior. Most of the fish arrives here already cut up and in slabs and frozen so it's not like I can go to a fishmonger and ask them for the leftover bones. I'm wondering if I can find some little fishes with the spines still in them and figure out how to prepare them so that he will like them. I bet little fishes would be good dehydrated if I could figure out how to do that without smelling up the house or making our 4 feral cats go bonkers outside.

    It wasn't this brand http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&view=grid&w=shrimp&visitorID=&cartcount=1&wishcount=0&subtotal=14.99 but I tried the one ingredient dried shrimp treats for cats, only a few of the very tiny shrimps, and they were tasty! I also tried a Latin American brand made for humans, and it was so awful even starving cats would touch it, for real.  I like eating live clams with some seawater and a lot of fresh squeezed lemon juice.  Clams would be nice made into a raw New England style or Boston style clam chowder too, with basil! :) No?  Wild herring are high in D and I imagine even more absorbable fermented.  Maybe baby herring could work, but herring are one of the smelliest fish, so you may get more cats.  It would be nice if hubby just ate these things without worrying about taste.  I know he doesn't have the same problems as my son who has certain physical ills, but when he ate fish four days he didn't want fats with it cause he thought cucumber and tomato would taste better.  I let him.  His intestines bled, he got deathly anemic for a while from that, and I have to wonder if I would have said "you have to eat fat with it" if it would have been better.  When I start radical new diets on myself, I worry more about seeing if the foods work in their purest forms and how, rather than flavor or a preconceived notion being a real priority.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline jessica

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2011, 02:07:48 am »
any thing with acidity, grapefruit, lime juice, will help to break down the minerals in the bones...strain it and slow cook some root veggies and leeks and onions in there, make a delicious soup, they are extremely healing to those transitioning or with difficulty digesting
whey is super mineral rich...i would suggest you do some reserach on that as well...a great transitional diet would be to do some kind of weston a price with less grains or perhaps check out marksdailyapple.com and apply the same priciples but with less cooking of the meat

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2011, 02:29:13 am »
    It wasn't this brand http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&view=grid&w=shrimp&visitorID=&cartcount=1&wishcount=0&subtotal=14.99 but I tried the one ingredient dried shrimp treats for cats, only a few of the very tiny shrimps, and they were tasty! I also tried a Latin American brand made for humans, and it was so awful even starving cats would touch it, for real.  I like eating live clams with some seawater and a lot of fresh squeezed lemon juice.  Clams would be nice made into a raw New England style or Boston style clam chowder too, with basil! :) No?  Wild herring are high in D and I imagine even more absorbable fermented.  Maybe baby herring could work, but herring are one of the smelliest fish, so you may get more cats.  It would be nice if hubby just ate these things without worrying about taste.  I know he doesn't have the same problems as my son who has certain physical ills, but when he ate fish four days he didn't want fats with it cause he thought cucumber and tomato would taste better.  I let him.  His intestines bled, he got deathly anemic for a while from that, and I have to wonder if I would have said "you have to eat fat with it" if it would have been better.  When I start radical new diets on myself, I worry more about seeing if the foods work in their purest forms and how, rather than flavor or a preconceived notion being a real priority.

I hear ya Zi! That sounds like a God awful experience with your boy! I do the same - try to eat in the purest form first. It might have been a different issue with a child than an adult too. I find it utterly amazing that the man is being as cooperative about all this stuff as he is. He is very intelligent and motivated so I can argue for the health of a particular food or therapy- but - he will always follow his own senses - which I actually appreciate.

We just had raw tuna and salmon for lunch with some sauce. Are you saying that raw tuna and salmon necessitate an added fat source? This is news to me and I'd very much like to understand this more.

Oh - New England clam chowder would be wonderful except unfermented dairy is deadly to him. He's quite lactose intolerant.  I wonder if it would taste ok with fermented cream and butter? Have you ever tried that Zi? I pretty much lived off of the regular New England clam chowder when I lived in New England so many years ago! Love the stuff. He's also staying away from nightshades because of his inflammation these days so can't do Manhattan clam chowder either. Darn. Is there another way to make raw clam chowder?

I would love to find some raw herring - but haven't yet. Baby herring sounds ideal. Very fatty right? The cat treats are a great idea - and at the same time I would worry a bit because what they allow for animal foods..... you know. I saw a video once of someone putting a fan in a window to dry fish - but with the pollen allergy issue that wouldn't work. I'm starting to wonder about a shed for dehydrating in. Our four cats might build a bomb though. ;)

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2011, 02:41:52 am »
any thing with acidity, grapefruit, lime juice, will help to break down the minerals in the bones...strain it and slow cook some root veggies and leeks and onions in there, make a delicious soup, they are extremely healing to those transitioning or with difficulty digesting
whey is super mineral rich...i would suggest you do some reserach on that as well...a great transitional diet would be to do some kind of weston a price with less grains or perhaps check out marksdailyapple.com and apply the same priciples but with less cooking of the meat

Hi Jessica. Oh GREAT - I will go add lime right now. I'm going to filter the stock and then use it trying different soup recipes to find something appealing. I used carrots and onion in the last one that didn't work. This time I was going to try some winter squash on top of the carrots and onion. Any other suggestions besides leeks?

I was planning on adding sweet potato. Would you please tell me why you said no sweet potatoes?

Jessica, please believe me, I know tons about whey and have made it en masse for years. He hates it. Besides, as I said above, I am not getting milk and therefore will not have whey any more because I don't want any of us eating or drinking plastic. It's not worth the trade-off.

Do you have any second best suggestions to the whey?

I am quite familiar with the Weston A. Price Diet and we are already past that me thinks. We're rying to get rid of the grains entirely. I'm not familiar with Marksdailyapple. I'll check that out.

Thanks again.

Offline jessica

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2011, 03:01:35 am »
sweet potatoes are very suspect to me...super concentrated carbs, a weird latex sap that exudes from the raw guys when you slice 'em and an extreme propensity to go rancid and mold(ive farmed stored and sold thousands of pounds of em!)
perhaps garlic instead of leeks?
I'd suggest adding the green of carrots to the broth as well...
mark's daily apple would probably be a good next step, i really respect his research and ideas and think that for those with a healthier constitution and less sensitivity his recipes and nutritional ideas are pretty good and he has a TON of articles and information not only on diet but lifestyle, exerciser stress....etc...and the roll that plays on health as well
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 03:07:34 am by TylerDurden »

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2011, 03:10:54 am »
Clams work in ceviche, I've eaten clam/mussel ceviche in Costa Rica many times, it's very good.

As far as fish go, It might be worth a monthly trip to the Gulf Coast, or at least Houston, to get fresh fish with the bones/spines.   IIRC, you live around Austin.

5000 IU of vitamin D daily is not at all problematic.  The only time I've gotten too high on my vitamin D level is when I was eating basically ZC, and having about 10,000 IU daily.  The more carbs you eat, the more vitamin D you can take without getting toxic.  Carbs reduce the effectiveness of vitamin D, fat increases it.

I would definitely try the Now brand, 5000 to 10,000 IU daily for about 5 days.

You're in Texas, can't he just go outside for some sun?

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2011, 03:35:41 am »
sweet potatoes are very suspect to me...super concentrated carbs, a weird latex sap that exudes from the raw guys when you slice 'em and an extreme propensity to go rancid and mold(ive farmed stored and sold thousands of pounds of em!)
perhaps garlic instead of leeks?
I'd suggest adding the green of carrots to the broth as well...
mark's daily apple would probably be a good next step, i really respect his research and ideas and think that for those with a healthier constitution and less sensitivity his recipes and nutritional ideas are pretty good and he has a TON of articles and information not only on diet but lifestyle, exerciser stress....etc...and the roll that plays on health as well

I've seen that oozey stuff in some sweet potatoes. I always throw those out. I eat a lot of raw sweet potato leaves these days and the stems have a heavy sap which I stay away from too. Seems to me that the problem with a lot of the root vegetables is their staying power can be deceptive. Freshness can become problematic when they don't totally rot quickly like other things. I can't wait to see the difference when I dig up my own home-grown sweet potatoes and use them immediately this winter (hopefully). I've found that the difference in eating green leaves that are picked and eaten immediately is light years different than buying any of them from the store so it's probably the same with root veggies. Those are very good points Jessica -- and I bet I should think along those same lines with most of my long-storage fall veggies. I'm looking forward in the spring to growing as much of what we might eat as we can. Even now when I buy a root vegetable from the store I usually store them this time of year by planting them again and storing them outdoors. I get several growths of greenery from them that way and whenever I need one it's always optimally fresh. I do this with scallions a lot. The growing season is often too short here to work with easily and get full growth. I also cut off the tops (with greens removed) of many root vegetables and plant them again. Aren't I sneaky? ;)

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2011, 03:54:47 am »
Clams work in ceviche, I've eaten clam/mussel ceviche in Costa Rica many times, it's very good.

As far as fish go, It might be worth a monthly trip to the Gulf Coast, or at least Houston, to get fresh fish with the bones/spines.   IIRC, you live around Austin.

5000 IU of vitamin D daily is not at all problematic.  The only time I've gotten too high on my vitamin D level is when I was eating basically ZC, and having about 10,000 IU daily.  The more carbs you eat, the more vitamin D you can take without getting toxic.  Carbs reduce the effectiveness of vitamin D, fat increases it.

I would definitely try the Now brand, 5000 to 10,000 IU daily for about 5 days.

You're in Texas, can't he just go outside for some sun?

I'll get dry scallops AND clams and Snapper and make a ceviche out of all of them together! Now I'm really excited to try this!

Yes, we live in Austin and a monthly trip anywhere is a goal we are working towards. :) Our diet (and lives) will greatly improve in many ways when we work that out . 

Re the sun - Texas so sucks in this regard. When it gets hot it is so hot that you can barely last a minute in it. This summer it was 3 months of temps over 100, many at 110 in the SHADE which means oven temperatures in the sun and the temps would soar early in the morning and in the late afternoons the heat was outrageous. You can fry eggs on cement here in the summer and summer is very long and when it stops it stops suddenly and goes directly to winter. Winter then goes directly into summer. One day here recently (the last day of our "summer") it was 98 degrees out and the next day it never got past the 50's. The winds stopped coming from Mexico and started coming from Canada. This time of year there are some days in the middle of the day that you can get out and be comfortable for a short time and I try to take advantage of those, but with Hubbie's daytime schedule - it doesn't work. This also hopefully will one day change. 

5 days - high dosage vit D. Got it.  Very interesting info on carbs reducing effectiveness of Vit D. I always thought Vit D supplementation was more important on carb diets because carbs have less Vit D in them so the more animal foods you eat the more vitamin D you would eat and therefore not have to supplement as much - and then of course fat increases vitamin D absorption and animal foods have more fat usually. Do you know how carbs reduce the effectiveness - the mechanism I mean? Do they absorb it or something?

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2011, 05:00:01 am »
Cherimoya - this is uncanny. After the conversation we just had about the sun my husband asked me if I have ever heard of far infrared. I giggled and said I always wanted a sauna so it could melt all the plastic out of me! He sent me this:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2009/jun2009_Far-Infrared-Therapy_01.htm?source=search&key=%22muscle%20tension

He's picking up on the power of the sun and I think I might be able to discuss with him totally re-arranging his life to get outside in the middle of the day and sun bathe with me - maybe? It would be a big deal, but there might be an opening here. I don't know how long it will be able to last but any amount could be helpful.

I'm going to send him the information Raw-Al sent me on sun-gazing too me-thinks.

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2011, 10:12:39 am »
Tyler was explaining in another thread how folks that he knows that say that they were generally allergic to dairy but not allergic to certain types of fermented dairy when giving up dairy eventually healed up problems because tiny bits of the allergens were still in the fermented products. I thought I'd take that up and continue it here not to divert that other thread. Tonight I muscle tested him for raw parmagiana cheese and he got stronger with it. I will test him with the Coca pulse test tomorrow with different cheeses. Arthur Coca discovered that digesting an allergen will raise the resting pulse more than 10 points a half hour later. All you have to do is take your pulse to find out if you are allergic to something. I really can't believe that I haven't done muscle testing etc. on my hubbie before. What was I thinking?!!! (or not thinking more likely).

I talked to Hubbie about sitting out in the sun and his response was "WHAT??? With my allergies to pollen and this cedar fever killing me?" Uh, yeah, duh, forgot about that. That's why we have a whole house filtration system and other outrageous systems running all the time and he has to wear a mask. Well, we'll start with the D in pills and see how that goes.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2011, 11:13:27 am »
Do you know how carbs reduce the effectiveness - the mechanism I mean? Do they absorb it or something?

There is a specific mechanism, it reduces the effectiveness of all steroidal activity in the body, including vit D, which is a type of steroid.  Also, the simple lack of fat also gives the vit D no way to move throughout the body.

Speaking of allergies--most allergies are well-controlled by vitamin D.  It moderates and reduces excesses in the immune system.  Have him try the D for 5-7 days, and see if it helps his allergies.  Don't tell him, just see if he mentions it, or if you notice.  Ask him specifically about plaque on his teeth, because vit D usually reduces that.  What other health problems does he have?

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2011, 12:11:16 pm »
There is a specific mechanism, it reduces the effectiveness of all steroidal activity in the body, including vit D, which is a type of steroid.  Also, the simple lack of fat also gives the vit D no way to move throughout the body.

Speaking of allergies--most allergies are well-controlled by vitamin D.  It moderates and reduces excesses in the immune system.  Have him try the D for 5-7 days, and see if it helps his allergies.  Don't tell him, just see if he mentions it, or if you notice.  Ask him specifically about plaque on his teeth, because vit D usually reduces that.  What other health problems does he have?

Carbs block all steroids - wow - that's interesting. I have to research that more. That kind of information could help to swing the tide with helping him with a decision to completely nix carbs. He just sent out for a hormone test. They were being mailed from the pharmacy today. Kinda figure that hormones play a role in the allergies.

He used to have very bad plaque problems but a tooth routine including msm/xylitol swooshed in his mouth at night has brought that under control. He no longer has to see his periodontist either and they are quite please at the how his pockets have been reduced and his gums have stopped receding (and can I see that they have grown back) . That would be a big boon for him to have that helped even more. That was a scary issue at the time facing the likely loss of his teeth. Whew. Glad that's over.

He has history of a bunch of fairly big health issues that have been handled. We kinda took them one by one over the years.

He has always had scoliosis, which affects his entire body structure and function and probably has affected his neck and his disc which in turn has given him different symptoms - many of which are starting to come under control. His chiropractor says that there is no way to regenerate the disc - just very expensive ways to block the pain. I don't believe him.

The allergies are really a tremendous problem right now. In our triage unit here - the allergies go to the front of the line to be attended to right now. It's a bit like having the worst cold all the time. He's really suffering, his energy gets very low, he is inflamed with a constant flow of mucus to where he can barely breath and the cedar season will continue through February. It's a major stress to the point where if it can't be handled with nutrition and perhaps allergy drops (or Vitamin D fingers crossed) we might end up having to move - which in itself would be a horror for us atm.

How I would love it if it could be as simple as taking enough vitamin D! I'm assuming that the Vitamin D has to be taken with fat correct? Would it be better to break up the dosage over the course of the day?
 

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2011, 01:03:06 am »
Hubbie balked at going directly to taking 5000 of a fat soluble vitamin (which can create overdoses and create kidney damage) but like the smart soul that he is (not believing the government limit of 2000) he got on-line and did research and found an article that not only swung him, but totally convinced him to start immediately taking 5000. He will take it with lunch when we eat the most fat.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/51913.php

This is a very powerful article on vitamin D by a physician. If you ever get the flu, colds, any auto-immune diseases (including allergies, diabetes, arthritis etc), worry about getting cancer or heart disease or the bird flu, - read this article top to bottom.

Thank You Cherimoya!

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2011, 01:27:01 am »
This is a supernerd link re vit D by the same doctor. If you want confirmation of the science and more detail - check this out:

http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/13/1/6.pdf

Offline KD

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2011, 06:09:04 am »
I just got my D tested last week. It was 43. I supplemented last winter with the same NOW brand softgells and it went from super low (don't remember the exact # ) to around the same range or higher. I stopped around the end of winter. This summer I got out WAY more than the average working stiff does..getting an hour stripped down to my shorts on lunch breaks and then even more sun on days that I have off, which is fairly often. I didn't measure at the very end of summer/early fall to see if its dropped much since then. However, seeing since 43 is just above what could beconsidered defficient, i'd say its a slim chance me or much of anyone In a northern climate is saving up enough D through summer sunlight and even a raw animal food diet to be a thriving healthy person throughout a northern winter.

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/hot-topics/lighter-skin-in-europeans-due-to-agriculture/msg68557/#msg68557

People in nature for the most part exist outside - much of the year anyway. Its thought that the body regulates any amount of sun exposure so that it is not toxic and yet one can get up to 30,000 IU from the sun. 1 kg of seafood daily is 1/10 this this amount.

Unless one want to shoot far below even the RDI's which will automatically correlate with bodily deficiency -  this will not come from food.  I eat quite a bit of organ meats and take blue ice fermented SLO, although not super often. I'm not eating eggs much now, but certainly have eaten tons of those (more than a dozen a day) last winter. I eat oysters, mushrooms, seafood a few times a week etc.. None of these will raise one's levels into the 40's unless they are getting tons of sunlight - likely year round.

probably by december I'll be back with the softgells. I don't doubt the steroid relation as my athletic preformance usually shoots through the roof when I have adequate D, (from the sun or pill does not seem to matter)

Overall i'm pretty happy being @ 43, but I would say that is basically sufficient and not thriving. Also probably had to do with the fact that I was supplementing throughout the winter. people generally can't get proper sun exposure comfortably if their levels are too low, so its double-edged in that way. on an even more positive note, B-12 was @ 3.63 between and ideal range of 200 and 500 pg/mL which was a thankful increase without supps which I stopped 3.5  years ago (oral) but have been hanging at low-ish levels.

---
other than fat its been suggested that K2! might be a good idea for D3 absorption...
http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2009/8/9/vitamin-d.html
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 06:14:37 am by KD »

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2011, 11:06:25 am »


How I would love it if it could be as simple as taking enough vitamin D! I'm assuming that the Vitamin D has to be taken with fat correct? Would it be better to break up the dosage over the course of the day?
 

I recommend taking it either with fat, or just alone, at bedtime. That's how I usually do it, it seems to work well for me, but I do it specifically to improve sleep quality, and that works better if I take it right before bed.  It really has improved my sleep quality tremendously, no exaggeration.

If he really wants to maximize his D absorption and uptake, he should probably go VLC for at least a couple of weeks or so, and eat VERY high fat, like 50-70% of calories.  I would transition slowly into the the VLC over about 3-4 weeks.

I wouldn't do the VLC long-term, unless he really finds it to be a real lifesaver, so to speak, which he may.  It can be a good thing for most people short-term, and a small number longer-term.


Offline Dorothy

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Re: Advice request for transition and healing ideas
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2011, 07:49:50 am »
KD - your story is impressive and telling. I recently read that people's abilities to create vitamin D can fluctuate from person to person a good deal.

Cherimoya, we went to the store with the greatest variety of supplements yesterday and were able to find 5000 in one pill with virgin olive oil (they didn't have the Now brand). The other bottle we bought of 400 was gone in a day because we had to take such a large number of pills to get to 5000. Thanks for the heads up on the night time and sleep.

I for one cannot eat the bone stock I made. I broke out (haven't done that in ages) and felt sick both times I tried it. My body really hates cooked animal foods and fats more than anything except sugar. We can't tell if it hurts or helps hubbie because he feels crappy all the time these days with his allergies no matte what he eats. My beagle really loves the stuff though. ;-) It's really goopy and there is a very thick layer of fat on the top. Do y'all eat that cooked fat? Is that considered rendered fat?

 

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