Author Topic: Art DeVany's Top 10 Reasons not to run a Marathon  (Read 12810 times)

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Satya

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Art DeVany's Top 10 Reasons not to run a Marathon
« on: October 20, 2008, 10:07:19 pm »
I have to agree with him.  I don't think long term, heavy duty, steady-state, repetitive motion is what our ancestors did on any sort of regular basis.  They had strong bones and muscles, not the catabolized bodies of marathoners.

http://www.arthurdevany.com/?p=1262

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Art DeVany's Top 10 Reasons not to run a Marathon
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2008, 10:18:15 pm »
Marathoners don't have the body chicks love.
I'd rather get into a sport that will build a body that chicks love.

Maybe that's why I'm eating raw animal food, so I can get away with minimal exercise... wow, I'm lazy.
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Offline akaikumo

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Re: Art DeVany's Top 10 Reasons not to run a Marathon
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2008, 10:01:46 am »
Marathoners don't have the body chicks love.
I'd rather get into a sport that will build a body that chicks love.

Maybe that's why I'm eating raw animal food, so I can get away with minimal exercise... wow, I'm lazy.

I lol'd.

I have a question on this. Humans are made to be long-distance, endurance runners to bring down faster, but short-distance prey generally right? At least that's my understanding.

What is it about marathon running that's causing so much damage? I mean they're causing significant injury to their bodies. Is this something that will happen with anyone who runs?

I don't quite know how to phrase my question, hopefully that gets it across.
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. - Anais Nin

Satya

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Re: Art DeVany's Top 10 Reasons not to run a Marathon
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2008, 10:26:50 am »
I have a question on this. Humans are made to be long-distance, endurance runners to bring down faster, but short-distance prey generally right? At least that's my understanding.

What is it about marathon running that's causing so much damage? I mean they're causing significant injury to their bodies. Is this something that will happen with anyone who runs?

I don't quite know how to phrase my question, hopefully that gets it across.

Well, 2 things come to my mind: 

1.  We hunt in groups with complex brains and tools.  We are not cats, nor other types of carnivores who have the built in weapons.  We have native peoples of recent past hunting buffalo (before horses came back to N. America with the Spanish).  Forcing prey over cliffs or the like was one practice.  We don't have to use brute force as we can out wit the prey.

2.  Modern sport marathon running is very unnaturally brutal.  Ask someone who's done it.  Toenails come off and sometimes toes; recovery time is enormous.  And much of it is due to the repetitive nature and mileage required on foot.  I would say other sport such as cycling and swimming would not be as hard on the body for comparable distances (which will be longer on bikes and less in water iirc).  I think running is necessary, running is good.  But the constant running at high mileage for months, probably along with the high sugar diet most runners follow, is detrimental.  That and other forms of exercise are good too.  Like stone rolling, lacrosse, martial arts, and other functional things like them.

Hey Andrew, how's your running going?

BTW, I used to teach aerobics with Pam Reed in Tucson, AZ.  Google her.  She runs 100 milers.  Now 300+ mile record holder for running in one go.  Can you believe it?  She never looked really healthy to me, btw.  Always driven and bug-eyed.  It's like an addiction.  You know?  I had a friend into it ask me why I wouldn't do the marathon (I ran 2 mile race in hs and have done mid distance up to 15 miles in the past).  She said it was the ultimate achievement.  But it's not.  There's always more.  I know.  I just worked my butt off for my 1st Dan black belt in taekwondo.  But guess what?  I have so much more to go and up to 9th Dan to achieve (I'll die first as you can only test by training in years the same number for desired rank (3 years from2nd Dan to 3rd)).  Taekwondo is way more versatile and such a total body workout than running is.  I work my whole body for stamina, intensity, flexibility and strength.  My legs look great for never lifting weights for them.  And I am not tearing down my muscles and bones from too much training all the time as it is not repetitive motion!  It is so many different kinds of exercise.  26.2 miles takes hours to complete, and that after weeks of training!  And it's all legs hitting the ground, step after step after boring step.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 07:54:00 pm by Satya »

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Re: Art DeVany's Top 10 Reasons not to run a Marathon
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2008, 10:44:05 am »
Huh, interesting. So could it be a mix of bad footwear (I'm personally against shoes of the standard type), the cement/asphalt, and diet rather than the running itself? Would mixing it up with periods of walking make a difference?

Sorry for all the questions :P I was just looking at doing running (not marathons, but being able to run/walk pretty good distances), and the idea that it could be so damaging under some circumstances is rather concerning.
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. - Anais Nin

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Re: Art DeVany's Top 10 Reasons not to run a Marathon
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2008, 11:00:12 am »
I lol'd.

I have a question on this. Humans are made to be long-distance, endurance runners to bring down faster, but short-distance prey generally right? At least that's my understanding.

What is it about marathon running that's causing so much damage? I mean they're causing significant injury to their bodies. Is this something that will happen with anyone who runs?

I don't quite know how to phrase my question, hopefully that gets it across.

I do not believe in that endurance running assumption.  I would believe long walking treks, but not running.

I believe since humans are smart... that is our thing... they would set up traps easily for animals.  Much like today, pit traps, noose traps, use bait... it is smarts that matter, not endurance running.  Trapping prey is easy... very easy... you make a couple of traps and just inspect the traps from time to time.  This will explain for the leisure time enjoyed by Paleo people and why humans love to play.

The movie 10,000 BC showed one way how to catch a wooly mammoth.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 11:10:27 am by goodsamaritan »
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Offline wodgina

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Re: Art DeVany's Top 10 Reasons not to run a Marathon
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2008, 04:41:08 pm »
Well, 2 things come to my mind: 

1.  We hunt in groups with complex brains and tools.  We are not cats, nor other types of carnivores who have the built in weapons.  We have native peoples of recent past hunting buffalo (before horses came back to N. America with the Spanish).  Forcing prey over cliffs or the like was one practice.  We don't have to use brute force as we can out wit the prey.

2.  Modern sport marathon running is very unnaturally brutal.  Ask someone who's done it.  Toenails come off and sometimes toes; recovery time is enormous.  And much of it is due to the repetitive nature and mileage required on foot.  I would say other sport such as cycling and swimming would not be as hard on the body for comparable distances (which will be longer on bikes and less in water iirc).  I think running is necessary, running is good.  But the constant running at high mileage for months, probably along with the high sugar diet most runners follow, is detrimental.  That and other forms of exercise are good too.  Like stone rolling, lacrosse, martial arts, and other functional things like them.

Hey Andrew, how's your running going?

BTW, I used to teach aerobics with Pam Reed in Tucson, AZ.  Google her.  She runs 100 milers.  Now 300+ mile record holder for running in one go.  Can you believe it?  She never looked really healthy to me, btw.  Always driven and bug-eyed.  It's like an addiction.  You know?  I had a friend into it ask me why I wouldn't do the marathon (I ran 2 mile race in hs and have done mid distance up to 15 miles in the past).  She said it was the ultimate achievement.  But it's not.  There's always more.  I know.  I just worked my butt off for my 1st Dan black belt in taekwondo.  But guess what?  I have so much more to go and up to 9th Dan to achieve (I'll die first as you can only test by training in years the same number for desired rank (3 years from2nd Dan to 3rd)).  But at 43, taekwondo is way more versatile and such a total body workout than running is.  I work my whole body for stamina, intensity, flexibility and strength.  My legs look great for never lifting weights for them.  And I am not tearing down my muscles and bones from too much training all the time as it is not repetitive motion!  It is so many different kinds of exercise.  26.2 miles takes hours to complete, and that after weeks of training!  And it's all legs hitting the ground, step after step after boring step.



I think we can run down prey without even getting out of our aerobic zone, then use our smarts   :) running aerobically is really quite fun and can help you think but do you guys realise just how hard it is to do? it's bloody hard! you have to run so slow!!!I've chased down sheep, kangaroos and dogs when I was a kid and it's not that hard during the heat of the day and also very cruel.

Marathon running is brutal at an elite level. Letting your body functions (wetting and crapping yourself)  just to win a race is desperate and kinda too much for me! I watched the womens Olypmpic marathon and did not find any of them good looking whereas the aussie womens field hockey team looked smoking hot!


Hey Satya, I'm going ok with the running, don't enjoy it that much to be honest it's either boring or painful. I prefer interval training with sprints. I never feel good after pushing it anerobically for long periods of time whereas surfing or mountainbiking which involve short anerobic bursts of power and speed and then long periods of aerobic activity leave me feeling great and invigorated. So I'm with ya there, marathons (although yet to do one!) can't be the ultimate acheivement. Catching an amazing wave, skiing a black diamond run or taking down a competitor is more of a rush to me.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Art DeVany's Top 10 Reasons not to run a Marathon
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2008, 06:05:56 pm »
I do not believe in that endurance running assumption.  I would believe long walking treks, but not running.

I believe since humans are smart... that is our thing... they would set up traps easily for animals.  Much like today, pit traps, noose traps, use bait... it is smarts that matter, not endurance running.  Trapping prey is easy... very easy... you make a couple of traps and just inspect the traps from time to time.  This will explain for the leisure time enjoyed by Paleo people and why humans love to play.

The movie 10,000 BC showed one way how to catch a wooly mammoth.

Err, don't depend on movies for depicting reality - this is especially the case with regard to any of Roland Emmerich's awful movies!
As regards traps and things like bows and arrows, according to a palaeoarchaeologist I talked to on allexperts.com, they weren't invented until very late in the Palaeolithic, c.60,000 years ago.
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Offline ezekiel

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Re: Art DeVany's Top 10 Reasons not to run a Marathon
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2008, 11:20:54 pm »
Persitent hunt done by african hunter gatherers...

Check Out The Video!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPN1xf9i9CY

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Re: Art DeVany's Top 10 Reasons not to run a Marathon
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2008, 11:28:06 pm »
Persitent hunt done by african hunter gatherers...

Check Out The Video!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPN1xf9i9CY
This might not be the persstant hunt....I can't see if it is because i's blocked at my school.

Go to my youtube page and see my favorites, the african hunt videos are right at the top.

http://youtube.com/abuqdairi

Offline akaikumo

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Re: Art DeVany's Top 10 Reasons not to run a Marathon
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2008, 04:05:43 am »
Hey Satya, I'm going ok with the running, don't enjoy it that much to be honest it's either boring or painful. I prefer interval training with sprints. I never feel good after pushing it anerobically for long periods of time whereas surfing or mountainbiking which involve short anerobic bursts of power and speed and then long periods of aerobic activity leave me feeling great and invigorated.

Makes sense.
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. - Anais Nin

Offline OldeSword

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Re: Art DeVany's Top 10 Reasons not to run a Marathon
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2008, 09:21:06 am »
I find that list very, very suspect... For starters, the people who aim to get sub 2:30 times and win the race are not the vast majority of marathon runners who are out there to push themselves personally and have fun. I've run two marathons, the Big Sur International Marathon and the San Francisco Marathon, without soiling myself or feeling confused. I felt elated, actually, thanks to the nice endorphin kick and the charge in the air from a few thousand athletes. There was also a sense of exploration as I had never run those routes before and there was a lot to see.

I was, however, injured but have since learned the reason why. The vast majority of modern runners have terrible, terrible running form. And pretty much everyone has terrible walking form. That's because we've been wearing clunky Western shoes ever since we were little babies that robbed our body of the very thorough biofeedback system in our feet and eliminated much of our natural shock absorption. The soles of your feet are so sensitive so that they can tell you what kind of surface you are running on and prepare your body for every step you take, including adjusting for terrain issues. Our bodies need to feel the ground beneath them but because we bind our feet in so much padding they can't feel so we literally slam our foot onto the ground trying to make contact.

Then our shoes prevent natural running form. Rather than land on the balls of our feet and let our joints bend and absorb the shock we are taught to slam our heels into the ground and 'roll' forward to push off. Pounding your heel into the ground transfers all of that energy straight to your knee, which then absorbs the shock, and deteriorates it.

There's a few great websites and articles on the issue but if you really want to know the difference go for a walk without your shoes on. And not just on grass or sand. Your ancestors walked and ran barefoot on all sorts of unforgiving terrain just as rough and hard as asphalt and concrete and you should too. Just go for a walk and see if your usual walking form works for you. Try running a very short distance if you feel brave.

Your body will naturally adjust your walking and running form, as well as anything else you do, to eliminate injury and strengthen itself if you allow it to do so.

I would also like to say that Phidippides, the first marathon runner, didn't die from running 26.2 miles. He died froming running 140 miles to Sparta, then running back, participating in the march to Marathon and the grueling battle there, and then ran the 26.2 miles to Athens.

Offline primaD

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Re: Art DeVany's Top 10 Reasons not to run a Marathon
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2009, 01:27:24 pm »
Personally I love running.  10 miles, 20 miles, 26.2 miles, all good to me. :)  I think the only thing bad about "traditional" running is that people use shoes.  I like to run barefoot.  As a matter of fact, I ran 5 miles barefoot a couple of months ago.  (been kinda lazy since but I'm getting back into it)  I only wear shoes if I have to. (clothes for that matter also)  things I play barefoot -> soccer, basketball, football, running, biking, tennis, hiking, mountain climbing (beginner only), etc.  I find it more fun and natural that way.  Also, for me I wouldn't soil myself just to finish some competition, I take breaks as I see fit and then continue when I'm ready.  In that way, I don't see marathon running a problem.  It's no different than any other sport when you push yourself like crazy. 

Offline Topper Harley

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Re: Art DeVany's Top 10 Reasons not to run a Marathon
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2009, 05:57:05 pm »
Personally I love running.  10 miles, 20 miles, 26.2 miles, all good to me. :)  I think the only thing bad about "traditional" running is that people use shoes.  I like to run barefoot.  As a matter of fact, I ran 5 miles barefoot a couple of months ago.  (been kinda lazy since but I'm getting back into it)  I only wear shoes if I have to. (clothes for that matter also)  things I play barefoot -> soccer, basketball, football, running, biking, tennis, hiking, mountain climbing (beginner only), etc.  I find it more fun and natural that way.  Also, for me I wouldn't soil myself just to finish some competition, I take breaks as I see fit and then continue when I'm ready.  In that way, I don't see marathon running a problem.  It's no different than any other sport when you push yourself like crazy. 

How does this work playing against other people who wear shoes? I'm not critical. I also think barefoot makes a lot more sense. Just wondering if you run into problems doing this.

Offline ErikFury

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Re: Art DeVany's Top 10 Reasons not to run a Marathon
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2009, 01:03:29 pm »
the idea of running 26.2 miles makes me want to  -v

I used to be a very good runner as a kid too! When I was 11 years old I could do a 6 minute mile completely untrained! Since going raw though my body has been completely overhauling from the previous 20 years of cooked food eating. Exercising while my body is trying to do something else makes little sense. Also, exercise is hard work and doesn't feel good!


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Re: Art DeVany's Top 10 Reasons not to run a Marathon
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2009, 03:21:54 pm »
Quote
How does this work playing against other people who wear shoes? I'm not critical. I also think barefoot makes a lot more sense. Just wondering if you run into problems doing this.
You have to be faster than they are!  People don't take it easier on you just because you're barefoot.  However it's usually not a problem for me because right now I don't think I'm going to be a pro athlete so normally I only play against really close friends or people I know fairly well.  That way there is no foul play and everyone is playing just to have a good time and get in shape.  We're not playing to kill each other.
Quote
When I was 11 years old I could do a 6 minute mile completely untrained!
That is pretty darn good!  You were quite the runner!
Quote
Also, exercise is hard work and doesn't feel good!
To each his own, I guess.  I LOVE exercising, my body feels absolutely great but that just me i guess... :P

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Re: Art DeVany's Top 10 Reasons not to run a Marathon
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2009, 07:57:00 am »
Quote
Then our shoes prevent natural running form. Rather than land on the balls of our feet and let our joints bend and absorb the shock we are taught to slam our heels into the ground and 'roll' forward to push off. Pounding your heel into the ground transfers all of that energy straight to your knee, which then absorbs the shock, and deteriorates it.

There's a few great websites and articles on the issue but if you really want to know the difference go for a walk without your shoes on. And not just on grass or sand. Your ancestors walked and ran barefoot on all sorts of unforgiving terrain just as rough and hard as asphalt and concrete and you should too. Just go for a walk and see if your usual walking form works for you. Try running a very short distance if you feel brave.

Your body will naturally adjust your walking and running form, as well as anything else you do, to eliminate injury and strengthen itself if you allow it to do so.

I agree with this, I love to go outside barefoot, and I have run around on concrete, when there's a bee chasing you, suddenly you care a lot less about how rough pavement is! I love it though, it's invigorating, and I feel so much quicker, my strides are shorter, but I feel that because I can feel and react to the terrain under my feet, I don't have to worry as much about sprained ankles and tripping, which used to happen to me in gym class when I was in middle school, wearing thick soled tennis shoes.

 

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