Author Topic: Climate change  (Read 10447 times)

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Offline svrn

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Climate change
« on: March 12, 2013, 11:25:58 pm »
climate change. what a load of crap
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Offline RogueFarmer

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2013, 12:18:13 am »
climate change. what a load of crap

What leads you to this opinion? Listening to too many compulsive lying pundits? I would agree with you if the current political climate on climate change is bogus, the science also isn't very good because most scientists are actually not researching the true main causes of global warming. But climate change is unfuckingdeniable. It happens all the time, it has always happened. It probably caused most of the mass extinctions.

There is a dead zone in the gulf of mexico from manure but mainly farm chemical runoff, the size of New Jersey in the Gulf of Mexico. That is climate change. That is nature producing c02 and methane instead of oxygen. most of the crop land lies bare for half the year. That is climate change. Most of the manure is stored in liquid pits. That's climate change. The deserts used to be covered in grass. Grass cools the earth while bare earth heats up. That's climate change.

Nature evolved to stabilize the climate and protect itself. If life hadn't existed, the conditions for life on this planet probably wouldn't be able to sustain what lives here now. The life created the oxygen bubble that we breath.

Grass evolved 25 million years ago. It is one of the most resilient kinds of plants that has ever existed. It is a great stabilizer for life on land, grasslands may be more important for ecology than forests, although, it's silly to try to say one is better than the other, but grasslands are often far more productive.

When we destroy forests and grasslands and nature... that's climate change. Burning fossil fuels? Well if nature were healthy it would be more fodder for c02 eating plants, actually it is and plants are growing slightly faster than they used to because of increased c02. Hey, pretty sure that qualifies as climate change!

Offline svrn

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2013, 01:14:47 am »
climate change exists. to say that humans have any effect on the climate is rediculous. The climate has always changed and always will change regardless of what humans do. Climate change is just an excuse to control all human activity through world carbon taxes. It is also designed to bring in austerity by making nations reduce their energy usage.

heres a good doc on the climate change scam

The great global warming swindle - Full version

it is all about control
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Offline svrn

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2013, 01:18:41 am »
Quote by Club of Rome: "In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill....All these dangers are caused by human intervention....and thus the “real enemy, then, is humanity itself....believe humanity requires a common motivation, namely a common adversary in order to realize world government. It does not matter if this common enemy is “a real one or….one invented for the purpose."

this is all about making mankind the enemy for purposes ofn depopulation.

http://www.c3headlines.com/global-warming-quotes-climate-change-quotes.html

lots of eye opening quotes from climate change promoters here.

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Offline Iguana

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2013, 01:31:07 am »
Climate has always changed, as you say, but this time the change is more rapid. Isn't it logical that human activities such as deforestation and massive fossil fuels burning have an influence on climate?

Whatever the case, desertification has been real ever since the beginning of the Neolithic era, caused by agriculture and harmful methods of livestock farming.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline RogueFarmer

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2013, 02:51:57 am »
Uhm, yeah I'm not going to watch an hour and a half long video by conspiracy theorists because they are wasting all of our time. I have seen these people. THEY DO RAISE GOOD POINTS about the cultish environmental mentality behind global warming politic. Doesn't mean climate change isn't caused by humans.  I have read the natural history of how humans have changed our climate. We created deserts in places that once had enough rainfall to support verdant forests but don't anymore. Forests and grasslands produce microbes that travel into the atmosphere and cause rainfall.

The Cradle of Civilization was one of the most fertile places ever, Iraq and Iran, where agriculture was born, is now desert, because of agriculture and ultimately the diversion of the tigris and euphrates... which would also cause climate change.

It could be mentioned that some of the effects of global warming are caused by lack of rainwater retention and excessive runoff, but the terrain and the weather have a big effect on each other... you can't deny this.

If you have bodies of water (like the millions of ponds America had before streams and rivers were damned and beavers were slaughtered for pelts). Those bodies of water attract atmospheric water. Yellow dead grass repels rain, it stays up in the sky from the warm rising air. Green grass attracts humidity and rain.

You cannot continue denying human caused global warming. You are not a scientist. You are trusting people that are telling you a somewhat true but incomplete story. Denying climate change is basically denialism. It was discovered long ago that sky trails from airplanes has a cooling effect on the earth...

zomg haha To have any credibility you must provide actual evidence. We can do a scientific experiment at home showing that excess co2 and methane causes the green house effect and extra warmth from light sources. What scientific experiments have you done to disprove the green house effect?

It could be true that it has more to do with the soil's ability for water retention and the lack of plant life in the ground, but to say that man made climate change is a myth is insane.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2013, 03:21:54 am »
+ 1

Good post.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

William

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2013, 04:15:21 am »
Manmade global warming is a hoax.
The conspirators' emails have been read, we know that they conspired, we know that their so-called database mysteriously disappeared, we know that global warming has happened on Mars at the same time it happened on Earth.
We know that the only measuring system that shows any recent warming on earth is the one that does not take into account the increased size of cities. The other 4 or 5 all show global cooling.
http://iceagenow.info/
So there.     :D

And anyway, climate change happens on a scale of thousand of years.

Offline RogueFarmer

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2013, 05:12:12 am »
You same conspiracy wackos also say that the government is controlling the weather with chemical sprays. This is actually proven fact. If you remove vegetation you dry up the water table, drying up the surviving plants. This dries up tributaries that dry up rivers. Man made climate change. It is obvious we can influence weather on a small scale and it is obvious we can influence weather on a grand scale.

Offline svrn

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2013, 05:29:53 am »
Manmade global warming is a hoax.
The conspirators' emails have been read, we know that they conspired, we know that their so-called database mysteriously disappeared, we know that global warming has happened on Mars at the same time it happened on Earth.
We know that the only measuring system that shows any recent warming on earth is the one that does not take into account the increased size of cities. The other 4 or 5 all show global cooling.
http://iceagenow.info/
So there.     :D

And anyway, climate change happens on a scale of thousand of years.

exactly. the climate has always changed. To be afraid of that is insanity.

even more insane is to worry about humans destroying the earth. The earth wil destroy humans before we will ever get the chance.
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Offline svrn

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2013, 05:38:34 am »
Also you may or may not recall how in the 70s there was the big scare of the coming ice age. When that didnt happen they switched to global warming. When people saw how many records were broken every year in terms of cold weather,, they just switched it to climate change.

anyway, the people pushing this constantly admit that its not about climate change but using it as an excuse to fulfill their agendas which include depopulation, world government, and "redistribution of wealth". I put up a link where these people brazenly state this fact over and over again if you care tor ead it.

the emails were hacked, everything was admitted, I dont know why people still cant see the scam. anyway, you either see it or you dont.

Enjoy your carbon taxes, its for mother earth. ENjoy your austerity.
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Offline Alive

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2013, 06:11:17 am »
I believe that man made CO2 emissions will significantly contribute to climate change.
A small man made increase in CO2 is very valuable to prevent another ice age, which have been the most common state for the earth, but we are adding too much which will create undesirable impacts.
The change will take hundreds or thousands of years to fully unfold, due to the melting of ice tempering the process.

This video shows how the carbon we have released as CO2 will eventually, over hundreds of thousands of years, get put back in the sea floor / ground due to large scale stagnation of lakes and seas:

Crude - The Incredible Journey Of Oil

As an interesting aside George W lives in a modest eco friendly house, while Gore lives in a huge gas powered mansion!

Offline svrn

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2013, 06:25:36 am »
I guess nobody cares that the biggest proponents of man made climate change constantly admit that its about population reduction, redistribution of wealth, and world government rather than an actual fear of the climate changing which it has always done, including periods much colder and much warmer than today that humanity has survived.

they can tell you they are lying and they do so constantly but people are so brainwashed that their admissions mean nothing to the imprisoned mind.

THEY ADMIT THEY ARE LYING TO YOU THEY SHOVE IT IN YOUR FACES AND LAUGH AS YOU BELIEVE THEIR LIES ANYWAY.
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Offline svrn

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2013, 06:28:46 am »
ignore it all you want but here it is staring you in the face.

Quote by Club of Rome: "In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like WOULD FIT THE BILL....All these dangers are caused by human intervention....and thus THE REAL ENEMY THEN IS HUMANITY ITSELF....believe humanity requires a common motivation, namely a common adversary in order to realize world government. It does not matter if this common enemy is “a real one or….one invented for the purpose."

please read that quote over and over again until you understand what they are saying. or you could just talk about completely unrelated topics without addressing this which I am sure you will. (but hopefully my saying this will force you into addressing it)
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Offline Projectile Vomit

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2013, 09:17:35 am »
If I wanted to read this quote by the 'Club of Rome' in its original context, where would I go?

Offline RogueFarmer

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2013, 09:32:40 am »
Oh just go away, we want to live in a good world. Quit derailing our thread with your meaningless political paranoia. We know that politicians are evil, most of us have fucking moved on with our lives. We don't believe a word Al Gore says. Honestly I would appreciate it if a moderator would split this discussion into a different topic because it is a total derailment of the discussion I intended for the thread.

The past ten years are all the hottest years on record and last year was the hottest. We change the climate with paved roads and black rooftops, just like you say. There are many ways to cause it. A strip mine could be hotter than a city.

We are freaking burning a million acres of grassland in africa every year, you think that doesn't contribute to the climate? You are seriously insane.

I can prove you wrong with a basic scientific experiment at home with basic house hold items.

thermometers, co2, methane (fracking off gasses 20% of it's methane) in plastic containers, light bulbs...

the greenhouse effect. The problem is that most of the world is turning into desert. Including in the east of the united states and farmland in china and russia. We have usurped nature by killing all the game and predators, started the 6th mass extinction. There is only one solution. Livestock are the only tools we have to heal the land.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2013, 03:49:07 pm »
Honestly I would appreciate it if a moderator would split this discussion into a different topic because it is a total derailment of the discussion I intended for the thread.
Done.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline jessica

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2013, 10:06:47 pm »
Oh just go away, we want to live in a good world. Quit derailing our thread with your meaningless political paranoia. We know that politicians are evil, most of us have fucking moved on with our lives. We don't believe a word Al Gore says. Honestly I would appreciate it if a moderator would split this discussion into a different topic because it is a total derailment of the discussion I intended for the thread.

The past ten years are all the hottest years on record and last year was the hottest. We change the climate with paved roads and black rooftops, just like you say. There are many ways to cause it. A strip mine could be hotter than a city.

We are freaking burning a million acres of grassland in africa every year, you think that doesn't contribute to the climate? You are seriously insane.

I can prove you wrong with a basic scientific experiment at home with basic house hold items.

thermometers, co2, methane (fracking off gasses 20% of it's methane) in plastic containers, light bulbs...

the greenhouse effect. The problem is that most of the world is turning into desert. Including in the east of the united states and farmland in china and russia. We have usurped nature by killing all the game and predators, started the 6th mass extinction. There is only one solution. Livestock are the only tools we have to heal the land.

the same people who don't believe in climate change also don't believe in "comets" or "meteors"  I suspect they never actually look up into the sky and gaze out into the vast twinkling star scape at night, or feel the intensity of the sun on their skin and understand that there are things, present in this waking life, not in heaven, hell or the afterlife, that we have a relationship with, that we have an impact on and that are great forces.  PEOPLE.  I am with you though Rogue, if I dwelled on this, like I have in my early twenties, I just don't get anything done, good or bad.

William

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2013, 10:19:40 pm »
the same people who don't believe in climate change also don't believe in "comets" or "meteors"

Whoa! Stop! Back up and take a look at what you wrote.
Manmade climate change is dogma, based on fiction.
Comets, meteors and their effects are scientific observations based on fact that anyone can see.
jmccsci.com

Offline svrn

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2013, 11:05:56 pm »
I dont believe in comets and meteors? Thats news to me.

I also want to live in a nice world where im not taxed for every single thing all the way down to BREATHING. You will see this in the future I guarantee it.

http://www.activistpost.com/2013/03/tax-bicyclists-for-exhaling-co2-when.html

and last ten years the hottest on record? What a joke. how about 650 snow records being broken last week?

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/02/23/over-650-snow-records-set-in-usa-this-week-another-wonky-surface-station-located/

BUT YOU WONT ADDRESS THIS, JUST LIKE YOU DIDNT ADDRESS THE CLUB OF ROME QUOTE. YOU CANT RESPOND TO ME ONLY TELL ME TO GO AWAY AND BRING UP IRRELEVANT THINGS LIKE BURNING THE FORESTS.


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Offline svrn

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2013, 11:12:36 pm »
If I wanted to read this quote by the 'Club of Rome' in its original context, where would I go?

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/documents/TheFirstGlobalRevolution_text.pdf

page 75

i wonder if the climate change fanatics will ever address this quote. Its funny how they get so mad at me for questioning their beliefs.
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Offline ys

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2013, 12:21:43 am »
Quote
The past ten years are all the hottest years on record and last year was the hottest.

That's possible.

Last year US had one of the mildest winters.  Europe and Russia on the other hand had one the most brutal winters in recent history.

Offline RogueFarmer

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2013, 10:31:44 pm »
http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/documents/TheFirstGlobalRevolution_text.pdf

page 75

i wonder if the climate change fanatics will ever address this quote. Its funny how they get so mad at me for questioning their beliefs.

No body got mad except you. You're the one being argumentative. Your ranting and raving about all this proof you have but haven't given a hint of evidence but an hour and a half video that no one has time to watch. I checked out your quote and the book. I don't have time to read that entire book but I have to sort of agree with that quote and the rest of what I read. Actually it looks like a pretty good book worth reading with a lot of good insight and ideas in it.

Also, snow shmow. How is how much snow we get any indication at all of the effects of global warming? When it's really cold, it doesn't snow. Snow is just winter precipitation.

Offline svrn

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2013, 10:59:53 pm »
You clearly have no idea what you read then. the quote is saying they made it up for other purposes.

 It does not matter if this common enemy is “a real one or….one invented for the purpose."
 It does not matter if this common enemy is “a real one or….one invented for the purpose."
 It does not matter if this common enemy is “a real one or….one invented for the purpose."
 It does not matter if this common enemy is “a real one or….one invented for the purpose."
 It does not matter if this common enemy is “a real one or….one invented for the purpose."
 It does not matter if this common enemy is “a real one or….one invented for the purpose."

i could spend hours giving yuo proof but none if it means anything compared to the main proponents of this scam CONSTANTLY ADMITTING that they lie to you, this is what I choose to focus on since they are so arrogant and love to shove it in our faces we might as well use it against them.

another quote from the same document, i could post hundreds from this one, it is a goldmine of hubris fuelled boasting

"Can we live without enemies? Every state has been so used to classifying its neighbors as friend or foe, that the sudden absence of traditional adversaries has Left governments and public opinion with a great void to fill. New enemies have to be identified new strategies imagined . and new weapons devised."

this shows that in a world government that they are trying to bring in, they can no longer use other countries as enemies to create fear with which to leverage power over the populace. this leaves an emtpy space of enemy required for every government and they are filling the role of enemy with ALL of humanity and no one country.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 11:20:09 pm by trollofthedungeon »
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Offline RogueFarmer

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2013, 11:55:58 pm »
NO, You read it wrong. God! OMG! You misquoted the book you are citing as evidence!

"In searching for a common enemy against whom we can unite, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like, would fit the bill. In their totality and their interactions these phenomena do constitute a common threat which must be confronted by everyone together. But in designating these dangers as the enemy, we fall into the trap, which we have already warned readers about, namely mistaking symptoms for causes. All these dangers are caused by human intervention in natural processes, an it is only through changed attitudes and behaviour that they can be overcome. The real enemy then is humanity itself."

The only thing wrong with this statement is that it lumps humanity in one big ball and ignores the dynamic between the control groups and the civilian masses who lack good leadership.

But you don't even understand what they are saying. You are taking it totally out of context of the book. They are using the royal we for all of humanity. Speaking in the context of being the people of the earth "searching for a common enemy against whom we can unite".

This book is good, it's worth reading. The intentions of the people writing might not be the best, but they are at least sincere I believe.

 

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