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Offline AnopsStudier

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Two questions! (buying and washing)
« on: January 22, 2014, 03:50:08 am »
Okay so Im in my second week of all raw foods! I'm using anopsology but that is besides the point. 

My questions are.. How do you go about choosing the healthiest produce.  I want NO toxins or pesticides in my food!   

and

How do you guys go about washing off your fruit and veggies?  I tend to just rinse them under my tap water!  Should I invest in a water filter?  and what is the proper washing technique for various produce!!!


Thanks for the help!

Offline Iguana

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2014, 04:51:35 am »
We usually don't wash food, especially not with chlorinated tap-water!  I wash a foodstuff only if it's obviously too dirty, except that I often wash fish and scallops with sea water.

We can't totally avoid pesticides in food, don't worry too much about it.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Projectile Vomit

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2014, 06:46:17 am »
Quote
We usually don't wash food...

I assume that Iguana's 'we' means he and his wife, and that he's not attempting to speak for everyone who posts on this forum. I wash fruits and vegetables, though not with any detergent.

If you buy commodity fruits and vegetables (food grown far away and shipped to where you purchase them), it's indeed hard to ascertain whether they have pesticides on them. 'Organic' used to mean that something was grown without pesticides (among other things), but that's not true anymore. Large commodity vegetable and fruit growers have co-opted the label, and forced certifying agencies to allow a range of pesticides to be used on crops that will eventually be labeled as Organic.

The best thing to do, in my opinion, is to buy foods from local growers so that you can visit their farm and get a sense for how things are grown. I don't know where you live, but here in Vermont farmers are fairly open to having visitors and I can make my purchases with full knowledge that zero pesticides have been used on food.

As far as having toxins IN your produce, that's more challenging. All things are at least somewhat contaminated with industrial toxins, though often with amounts so minute that they really don't matter. Plants also contain a range of natural phytochemicals that are toxic to people, and the presence of these chemical toxins is why we have livers and kidneys, our main detoxifying organs. Some toxins can actually be beneficial to us in small quantities; they offer a hormetic effect.

Offline nummi

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2014, 07:22:18 am »
I use simple soap and water for washing apples, for example, if they're commercial grade. Otherwise just water or not at all.

Offline AnopsStudier

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2014, 08:39:36 am »
thanks!  Ive been craving alot of berries, citrus(lemons, limes), and leafy greens lately.    I buy them all organic but from a grocery store/market.  Should I be washing this organic produce from the grocery store?

And i do plan on buying from the farmers market for some of my foods when it opens up again this spring.. Do I need to wash these foods from there?

Offline nummi

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2014, 08:55:13 am »
thanks!  Ive been craving alot of berries, citrus(lemons, limes), and leafy greens lately.    I buy them all organic but from a grocery store/market.  Should I be washing this organic produce from the grocery store?

And i do plan on buying from the farmers market for some of my foods when it opens up again this spring.. Do I need to wash these foods from there?
About berries, a good idea would be to go to forests, when in season, and pick wild ones in bulk, enough to store and eat even over the winter (blueberries, cranberries, cowberries, etc. or whatever around your location).

I don't wash berries myself, unless they're freshly picked and kind of dirty. If you do wash them make sure the water ain't too cold nor warm either. Cold takes some berries easily and if they're really ripe then warm can mush 'em up.
If you wash them and plan to store them in the freezer then first let them try out, preferably on some cloth. Otherwise you'll end up with a block of berries you need a hammer to separate.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2014, 03:37:51 pm »
I assume that Iguana's 'we' means he and his wife, and that he's not attempting to speak for everyone who posts on this forum. I wash fruits and vegetables, though not with any detergent.

No, sorry, I’m divorced and live alone. By “we”, I mean the people I know who have successfully eaten 100% raw paleo for decades here in Europe. Our ancestors of the Paleolithic certainly and usually didn’t wash their food. Animals don’t wash their food either.

When we think about any kind of food processing, it's wise to ask oneself: would an animal do it? And if they don't, why should we do it?

Why do you wash your food? Isn't it fine to have a whole array of various bacteria and yeasts on your food?

Washing can’t remove most pesticides because they adhere and are not only on the surface.     
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 04:01:02 pm by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Iguana

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2014, 03:47:54 pm »
About berries, a good idea would be to go to forests, when in season, and pick wild ones in bulk, enough to store and eat even over the winter (blueberries, cranberries, cowberries, etc. or whatever around your location).

How would you be able to store them for months without processing? They'll get rotten in a few days!

Gathering food in bulk for processing is the main reason why natural food reserves have been depleted around the planet.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline nummi

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2014, 04:45:03 pm »
How would you be able to store them for months without processing? They'll get rotten in a few days!

Gathering food in bulk for processing is the main reason why natural food reserves have been depleted around the planet.
I meant in the freezer, as frozen solid. And not that much in bulk (just enough for oneself).
Natural resources are depleted because there are far too many humans, and because people in general are incapable of looking forward to see the consequences of their actions. And as well it is gathered in bulk in the hopes to sell it for profit, doesn't matter if there is need or not or whether a lot goes to waste.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2014, 06:00:39 pm »
I meant in the freezer, as frozen solid.

Yes, I understood that. But frozen food thawed before ingestion proved troublesome, so we (the people having been successfully eating 100% raw paleo during several decades in Europe) don't eat thawed food... and eating frozen food is quite impractical!

Quote
Natural resources are depleted because there are far too many humans, and because people in general are incapable of looking forward to see the consequences of their actions. And as well it is gathered in bulk in the hopes to sell it for profit, doesn't matter if there is need or not or whether a lot goes to waste.

Yes, that's true too.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2014, 06:14:23 pm »
A  lot of RVAFers do feel the need to freeze their meats. This is partly due to the fact that buying in large bulk can mean paying a lot less per kilo, and they then have to store the rest of the meats long-term in a freezer. In my own case,  since I share a flat,  I have been forced to buy raw meat for 2 weeks at a time, and therefore eat  thawed prefrozen raw meat every 2nd week. When living alone, I couldn´t have personally cared less and really never smelled anything odd if I left raw meats in the fridge for  over a week. However, cooked-food-eaters who came to visit would go berserk at the slightest smell and view my place as being like  a slaughter-house, even though I had  a cleaner come in once a week etc.
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Offline jessica

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2014, 09:49:42 pm »
How would you be able to store them for months without processing? They'll get rotten in a few days!

Gathering food in bulk for processing is the main reason why natural food reserves have been depleted around the planet.


berries are easy to store, they dry pretty readily, using just the sun and air circulation, in a lot of different climates.  in colder climates fruit tends to store itself, I have eaten frozen apples and plums dug up from under snow drifts or where they have frozen and thawed many times and they might be a little freeze dried, chewy or even fermented but they are delicious and fully edible.  rose hips are best winter-spring and , they are sweeter and the fruit is more plump.  mulberries dry themselves on the ground in more arid climates and are easy to store.  service berries too, they sometimes just dry on the tree and its easy to put up a few pounds.

where fruit tree and berry trees are plentiful, taking back a few pounds to store is definitely not an issue.  there are hundreds of acres of abandon fruit orchards, miles of irrigation ditches lined with wild grapes and plums, blackberries and rose hips and mulberry trees around here that leave thousands of pounds of fruit, and even in my backyard alone, one fig tree produced so many figs this season that even with eating copious amounts and also storing we still did not harvest everything that was on the tree and the birds and fruit flies helped out too and the soil got whatever was left. 

I never buy conventional produce.  I always by produce from farmers who do not use any synthetic fertilizers or herbacides/persicides, non gmo(which really isn't an issue cause most of what vegetables/fruits I eat haven't been gm'd yet anyway) and local produce from the farmers market and if I am buying from a store I generally make sure its organic, unless its from one of those same local non chem farms. 

I never wash produce, if its something I am picking from the ground I just wipe off the dirt as best possible to avoid chomping down on a piece of rock.  if its from the store its usually been thoroughly cleaned a few times and I don't mind if there are germs from people handling it or just ambient germs.  im in contact with quite a few people but probably not many compared to others and I just use it as a chance to build immunity :)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 09:59:42 pm by jessica »

Offline Iguana

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2014, 10:18:56 pm »
Ah, yes, we can store dry fruits and I did it a lot of times, especially with figs. Never tried with berries, though. Thanks for the detailed and interesting infos.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline nummi

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2014, 11:44:40 pm »
Yes, I understood that. But frozen food thawed before ingestion proved troublesome, so we (the people having been successfully eating 100% raw paleo during several decades in Europe) don't eat thawed food... and eating frozen food is quite impractical!

Yes, that's true too.
I eat them frozen, perhaps a handful at a time and not often. Sometimes let them be for a little while before eating, so they become less cold but still frozen. I used to eat ice-cream a lot before going raw, without issues (that I could notice).
As to eating frozen being impractical, I've heard some berries can be found during winter and frozen, in the forest. From my parents and grandparents, but that was years ago (if I remember correctly).
I don't think eating frozen foods is as impractical in northern regions with long and freezing winters.
Drying them should be relatively easy, as an alternative.

Offline ys

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2014, 11:55:19 pm »
Quote
But frozen food thawed before ingestion proved troublesome

Can you share links with proof? Or was it just your experience? 

Offline jessica

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2014, 12:33:49 am »
I think, for fruit at least, storage depends on what varieties are growing and how they are grown, wild/alpine strawberries will dry themselves on the plant, conventional strawberries are generally over watered and will get slimy and mold due to this high water content.  I have seen the same principal of overwatering leading to less dense fruit and less storable fruit in other varieties as well, like pears.  also  that is not to say that the naturally dried strawberries are totally without mold or bacteria, but it doesn't seem to be detrimental to taste or health or how they store in my experience.

Offline AnopsStudier

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2014, 03:16:11 am »
So.. If I buy all my produce from the farmers market from stands that are organic and pesticide free should I still be washing them off?  And i still have to get some things from the local grocery stoere anyway!   I cant lemons from the farmers market in Illinois!

I live in the suburbs of Illinois at the moment I dont really have access to many wild foods or foods that dont have some sort of pesticice.   One day I would love to live in the mountains in Southern Georgia!  but right now I have to make do!

Offline Projectile Vomit

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2014, 04:31:24 am »
We all pretty much have our own thresholds that prompt us to wash or not to wash. When I gather wild plants, I hardly every wash anything and am often browsing hand-to-mouth. When I buy from a local farmer, sometimes I wash and sometimes I don't. When I buy from a grocery store, usually I wash, but sometimes I don't (usually with fruit). I don't buy produce that isn't certified organic.

Offline Chris

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2014, 03:20:01 pm »
I always wash my produce with just faucet water. I'd personally stay away from those produce washes, that promises to wash all the pesticides and waxes off. My rule of thumb is to stay away from the 12 most toxic fruits and vegetables:

Dirty Dozen: The 12 to buy organic (in order of pesticide load, apples being the worst offenders).

1. Apples
2. Celery
3. Sweet bell peppers
4. Peaches
5. Strawberries
6. Imported nectarines
7. Grapes
8. Spinach
9. Lettuce
10. Cucumbers
11. Domestic blueberries
12. Potatoes

Clean Fifteen: Buying organic is more sound environmentally, but if you can't, these options are less contaminated and don't pose as much of a health threat as do the dozen above.

1. Onions
2. Sweet corn
3. Pineapples
4. Avocado
5. Cabbage
6. Sweet peas
7. Asparagus
8. Mangoes
9. Eggplant
10. Kiwi
11. Domestic cantaloupe
12. Sweet potatoes
13. Grapefruit
14. Watermelon
15. Mushrooms

If you go organic than you can throw out both of the lists above. Always buy fresh! The fresher the better! Word to the wise. Don't sweat the little things in life. Life is way too short. KIS (keep it simple) and you'll be fine. Meat and Fats are another animal.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2014, 03:52:16 pm »
Can you share links with proof? Or was it just your experience? 
No, sorry, I don’t know of any study about troubles induced by thawed raw food. These troubles are hard to document because they only appear on sensitive people having eaten 100% raw paleo (without any frozen-thawed food) with an instinctive fine-tuning long enough for their body to get out of habituation. Not everyone becomes sensitive: some people on instinctive raw paleo diet for several years can even eat a cooked meal once in a way without any apparent short term reaction while some others will get an almost immediate violent reaction.

I didn’t experience it myself because ever since I’m on raw paleo I never ate any thawed food. I’ve trusted the say of the guys (I know them personally, being from the same town) who meticulously experimented on themselves, other people as well as animals and  developed the instinctive raw paleo diet. If a doubt may subsist, I use the precautionary principle because I didn’t feel the need to jeopardize my own health, which had already been sufficiently damaged by cooked / industrial / refined food and dairy!

Frozen / thawed food is certainly less troublesome than cooked, but I nevertheless prefer to completely avoid it, at least as long as I have enough fresh food.

Here is a translation of GCB’s writings:     
Quote
http://www.reocities.com/HotSprings/7627/ggraw_eat3.html
The damage caused by freezing fruit are most certainly minor as compared to the effects of heating. But freezing produces crystals in the cells and, when the frozen food thaws (the membranes being pierced by the crystals’ tips), it means that the substance of the cells flows out. All kinds of chemical reactions follow: oxidation, hydrolysis, etc., all of which make thawed frozen fruit look as if it were rotting. Recent studies have also shown that some proteins disband and are damaged simply when exposed to the cold, but such occurrences are probably less harmful than breakdown induced by thermal velocity.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Projectile Vomit

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2014, 10:58:08 pm »
...they only appear on sensitive people having eaten 100% raw paleo...

So it sounds as if eating raw causes people to become more sensitive. If this is true, how valuable is a raw food diet? Shouldn't our eating patterns offer us more resilience and more adaptability rather than less?

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2014, 11:30:27 pm »
So it sounds as if eating raw causes people to become more sensitive. If this is true, how valuable is a raw food diet? Shouldn't our eating patterns offer us more resilience and more adaptability rather than less?
Not really.In my own case, I started rawpalaeo with a massive food-intolerance towards  any  cooked animal foods. I then healed after a 2 year period and started being able to eat cooked animal foods without the appalling stomach-aches etc. I used to get from them. Then, slowly, over many years, I have increasingly found that I have been developing more and more slight issues with any cooked foods. For example, I will vomit foods out if I eat more than a certain amount of cooked foods in one go and digestion is much slower. I also get a quicker detox afterwards. I view this as the body simply getting used to  absorbing lots of high quality raw foods and  therefore not wanting to spend the usual vast effort on being also able to digest etc. cooked foods as well.
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Offline Iguana

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2014, 01:19:23 am »
So it sounds as if eating raw causes people to become more sensitive. If this is true, how valuable is a raw food diet? Shouldn't our eating patterns offer us more resilience and more adaptability rather than less?
That’s an interesting and fundamental point.

Most people who aren’t used to smoke start coughing at their first puff of cigarette smoke. But what happens to regular smokers? Their body no longer reacts since it has become accustomed to cigarette smoke. This may be seen as more resilience and more adaptability, but as a matter of fact they are slowly poisoning their lungs, their body having finally given up to fight a continuous influx of noxious molecules.

It’s logically the same for cooked food. What can an immune system do when the only food the body gets 3 or 4 times daily is degraded, packed with abnormal and more or less noxious molecules? It will stop fighting those antigenic molecules, which will therefore slowly accumulate in its tissues, in body fat, in-between the cells and even in the cells. In other words, the immune system enters in a state of “tolerance”. No reaction, but instead a slow intoxination of the whole body.

I tried to explain this in a more technical way in that post.

Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline AnopsStudier

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2014, 01:26:33 am »
So should i buy a water filter if im going to be cleaning anything as far as produce?  My water smells like chlorine.  and lately ive been really been able to notice the smell

Offline lena

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Re: Two questions! (buying and washing)
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2014, 01:34:54 am »
www.findaspring.com

I used this website to find a well nearby. If there's one close to you it's way better and also cheaper than a water filter.

 

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