Author Topic: Aajonus Vonderplanitz's opinion about concentrated forms of sodium  (Read 8844 times)

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Offline DonJon

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Aajonus Vonderplanitz said that any form of concentrated sodium is bad for humans. What about mixing water with Himalayan salt? I haven't done much research but it seems like if you dilute Himalayan salt with water it can replenish electrolytes without taxing the bodies organs and systems.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Aajonus Vonderplanitz's opinion about concentrated forms of sodium
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2014, 08:24:00 am »
Aajonus is not always right. Some PPL do well with salt and need it and some don't.
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Offline nummi

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Re: Aajonus Vonderplanitz's opinion about concentrated forms of sodium
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2014, 12:06:23 am »
There's different kinds of salts. Our bodies don't really need salts, but the mineral components (Na, Ca, Mg, K, Cl, HCO3, SO4, etc. ions) the salts are made of.
A lot depends on the individual and conditions of life and the environment you live in. To know in more detail what works you have to experiment.

Personally I make a mixed solution of salts and for now drink it over two days. In one "batch" MgCl2 about 1.8 tsp, KCl about 1.2 tsp, NaHCO3 one tsp, borax half a tsp, NaCl about 0.7 tsp. I tried just food for a while, the result was headaches, blood pressure issues, and eventually rather severe muscle cramps in the middle of sleeping - all of which disappeared after starting with the salts (Mg and K).

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Aajonus Vonderplanitz's opinion about concentrated forms of sodium
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2014, 12:18:11 am »
i do well following www.watercure2.org using black salt

i used to avoid salt as aajonus said but i found out later on by my body that i do need salt
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Aajonus Vonderplanitz's opinion about concentrated forms of sodium
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2014, 03:12:41 am »
A.V. Drank a large amount of raw milk and cream, and raw eggs, while drinking a lower amount of water.

Perhaps excess salt for people following an A.V kind of diet is harmful. He would get enough minerals from his foods and because of low water intake he wouldn't be in danger of pissing away his bodies salts. He was partly right about the dangers of salt, but in many ways he was wrong to conclude that salt was universally bad.

For people who don't eat enough foods rich in natural salts such as dairy, eggs, sea food, bloody red meats, mineral rich plants ,ect.... or people who drink copious amounts of water may become depleted in salts and it may be necessary to add a good source into the diet.

Carbs may seem to play a role in salt metabolize. Higher carb diets tend to flush salts and minerals from the body, perhaps this is why salt goes so well with chips, and other starchy foods?
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Offline DonJon

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Re: Aajonus Vonderplanitz's opinion about concentrated forms of sodium
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2014, 06:40:13 am »
I see...essentially if you follow a healthy diet with a variety of foods with salt and minerals, you should be good. When you think about it, in the paleo times humans probably wouldn't add salt into their food or water as they got the nutrients they needed through food. Circumstances are different nowadays though. As an athlete you may need to quickly replenish minerals. Just have to make sure you don't go overboard.

Offline dariorpl

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Re: Aajonus Vonderplanitz's opinion about concentrated forms of sodium
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2015, 12:30:24 am »
When you think about it, in the paleo times humans probably wouldn't add salt into their food or water as they got the nutrients they needed through food.

I mostly agree with this. Although if they lived near the sea, then they might drink some salty water, or dip foods in it, nobody knows. I started eating raw meats about two weeks ago and found that salt makes it taste worse, contrary to cooked meats which I had to salt a lot. I don't know if AV is right in his thinking, but if I don't see any problems from lack of salt then I don't see any good reason to add them to my diet.

Circumstances are different nowadays though. As an athlete you may need to quickly replenish minerals. Just have to make sure you don't go overboard.

I disagree with this. If you're running after a zebra for hours, and the difference between you or the zebra getting tired first might be the difference between life and death for you and your tribe members, that is quite a bit more important than winning some medal in an athletic competition, and likewise the strain (and recovery) that your body has to be put through is that much more extreme. Similarly, in the paleo environment, almost all fights or struggles, whether with beasts or other humans, were to the death.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 12:37:12 am by dariorpl »
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Offline raw-al

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Re: Aajonus Vonderplanitz's opinion about concentrated forms of sodium
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2015, 02:17:08 am »
There's different kinds of salts. Our bodies don't really need salts, but the mineral components (Na, Ca, Mg, K, Cl, HCO3, SO4, etc. ions) the salts are made of.
A lot depends on the individual and conditions of life and the environment you live in. To know in more detail what works you have to experiment.

Personally I make a mixed solution of salts and for now drink it over two days. In one "batch" MgCl2 about 1.8 tsp, KCl about 1.2 tsp, NaHCO3 one tsp, borax half a tsp, NaCl about 0.7 tsp. I tried just food for a while, the result was headaches, blood pressure issues, and eventually rather severe muscle cramps in the middle of sleeping - all of which disappeared after starting with the salts (Mg and K).

Just a thought... most PPL get plenty of boron from bread as it used as an anti-caking agent in flour. Indeed my understanding is that it is a halide and as such interferes with the uptake of iodine (also a halide) in the thyroid which of course is not a good thing. Particularly if you are hypothyroid and your diet does not include any kind of iodine. (seaweed or fish)

However I agree that somehow we must get the other things you mentioned such as K, Na etc as they are necessary for the body's electrical system.
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Offline nummi

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Re: Aajonus Vonderplanitz's opinion about concentrated forms of sodium
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2015, 02:23:06 am »
Boron and bromine. Bromine is the halide.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Aajonus Vonderplanitz's opinion about concentrated forms of sodium
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2015, 02:24:27 am »
Boron and bromine. Bromine is the halide.
Ah! right you are thanks!
Cheers
Al

Offline A_Tribe_Called_Paleo

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Re: Aajonus Vonderplanitz's opinion about concentrated forms of sodium
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2015, 03:12:48 am »
AV claimed that salt leeched nutrients from our cells and kills them. Which rapidly speeds up the aging process. Thoughts anyone?

Offline raw-al

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Re: Aajonus Vonderplanitz's opinion about concentrated forms of sodium
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2015, 03:33:15 am »
AV claimed that salt leeched nutrients from our cells and kills them. Which rapidly speeds up the aging process. Thoughts anyone?
There is a grain  ;D of truth in everything that AV says.

For some PPL salt is bad news.

Rock salt seems to be generally a bad idea.... (My own opinion which is not to be confused with a fact)

However some PPL need salt.

I think that it is a combination of the source and the quantity.

Raw meat contains salt that has been somehow rendered apropos to our bodily needs.

Some require more salt than others for whatever reason.
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Offline nummi

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Re: Aajonus Vonderplanitz's opinion about concentrated forms of sodium
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2015, 03:44:44 am »
Salts don't leech nutrients, but water. But then water is also a nutrient, aside other things. We definitely don't need salts, but we do need minerals. Salts are made of minerals.
To get minerals from salts salts need to be in water solution, as they go into ionic form.
If you ingest just pure salt, water is needed to neutralize it's toxic and harmful effect, by converting it into ions which the body can use easily. So water from the body will be directed toward the ingested salt, leeching it from elsewhere.

When the body becomes deficient of water (at least in some parts of the body), as there's excess salts to deal with, nothing can work right. For well-working metabolism the most important nutrient is in fact water itself. Nothing, absolutely nothing, can work right if there's too little water (and not just water, as water also has to be structured right...). Water directed elsewhere, too little for well-working metabolism, so it will seem as if nutrient deficiency when in fact nutrients are all there, but what's missing is the necessary amount of correctly structured water for the nutrients to do their job.

Since water is sent to deal with excess salt, that salt along with the water is expelled from the body, as water also serves as a medium of transport.

So here's two or three ways for the same/similar effects. Deficiency of correctly structured water necessary for nutrients to do their job, or the deficiency of nutrients themselves, or both together.

I suppose similar applies to excess minerals as well.

Offline raw

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Re: Aajonus Vonderplanitz's opinion about concentrated forms of sodium
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2015, 03:25:26 pm »
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Online TylerDurden

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Re: Aajonus Vonderplanitz's opinion about concentrated forms of sodium
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2015, 04:35:09 pm »
Salt is absolutely essential as a preservative for HG cultures with no access to fridges/freezers. Salt for a RVAF diet is, imo, wholly unnecessary unless one has a peculiar salt-deficiency as  a result of a cooked diet. Even then, natural salts, such as found in raw wild game etc. are preferable.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 09:34:42 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline A_Tribe_Called_Paleo

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Re: Aajonus Vonderplanitz's opinion about concentrated forms of sodium
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2015, 08:19:18 pm »
Salt is absolutely essential as a preservative for HG cultures with no access to fridges/freezers. Salt for a RVAF diet is, imo, wholly unnecessary unless one has a peculiar salt-deficiency as  a result of a cooked diet. Even then, natural salts, such as found in raw wild game etc. are preferable.

Completely agree, cannot dispute that. I think the question was more towards concentrated forms of sodium, like adding Himilayan salt to drinking water to purify.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 09:34:35 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline political atheist

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Re: Aajonus Vonderplanitz's opinion about concentrated forms of sodium
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2017, 03:45:35 am »
Just found this:

''But what you're implying is that magnesium levels in the body are dependent on insulin levels, since insulin is responsible for getting magnesium into the cells.

If this were the case, all other magnesium deficient issues would never exist unless the person was insulin resistant.

The fact is, water is the transport vehicle for all of the body's nutrients. From the moment you place a morsel of anything between your lips until it is discarded through metabolic waste, it is enveloped in and transported by water.

Thus both magnesium and insulin are transported by water in their own right. And both are drawn into the cells. However, the Magnesium is needed by the cells to allow this water to enter. And since insulin is pulled into the cells by water, it's the dependency on magnesium that is responsible for the insulin getting into the cells, not vice-versa.

In addition, vascular disease is the result of chronic dehydration and osteoporosis is caused by a salt deficiency. Contrary to what is commonly believed, it is salt that give the bones their hardness, not calcium - calcium is too soft. Salt makes up around 23% of the bones - it intertwines with the calcium to give bones their hardness.

When you become salt deficient and the body needs salt for a particular function, it may cannibalize salt from the bones. When this goes on long enough, the lower body can no longer support the weight of the upper body and the upper body starts it familiar stooping posture.

The five main resources the body needs are (in order of importance) oxygen, water, salt, potassium and magnesium. These are the building blocks that maintain proper cell health. Thus, the magnesium levels in the cells cannot be dependent on insulin.

Oxygen is needed to burn calories. Water helps in the metabolism process by producing hydroelectric impulses as it goes into and out of the cells. Salt regulates the water volume outside the cells. Potassium regulates the water volume inside the cells. And magnesium is vital for bringing water into the cells.''

Any thoughts?

 

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